Mariners Trust - Seat on GTFC Board

Quoted from headingly_mariner

super dodgy, another clear as mud communication from the trust.

We can only go on what info we have

Still a "no" I'm afraid. Perhaps even more so given the way it has arisen. Can you imagine the stink if during the Scottish independence referrendum campaign Cameron truned round and offered to extend the deal by which England subsidises Scotland?

The position offered sounds like a sop at the 11th hour  to sway more members to vote yes (and a bit of a face saver for the Trust). It's a toothless position on the board. A step forward but still toothless.

As someone pointed out on another thread. there was a deal to be done. Sell the shares to Fenty, the Trust then has £200k which is far more than the other directors (bar Fenty), it should have a full seat then by right. Control of the club resides in the boardroom so solving Fenty's concern. Not difficult is it?

The inference from previous Trust statements was that the current deal was the best available. Now Fenty seemingly offers more! There was more on the table all the time if only they'd stood firm.

In it's Q&A the Trust said it had no immediate ambition to join the board. So if it accepts this now, what was the previous statement all about?

Apart from the fact it ought to be the immediate goal to get on the club board, it all looks a bit of a sodomist's muddle.

Vote No. Let's have a proper round of negotiations with no arms up backs and do this thing properly.

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

Sell the shares to Fenty, the Trust then has £200k

Just for clarity (not a criticism of the main point you were making, but so that the situation is accurate!), the MT proposal states 'that the Trust transfers 200,000 shares in GTFC to John Fenty for a non cash consideration" (my italics)

Not sure what this 'non cash consideration' might be...... (but it certainly won't be £200k )

Absolutely. That's what I mean. The deal should be to sell the shares for £200k. The club could still be put into the club and the Trust takes a proper step forward.

Having said that. I'd still like to know if the money JF is pledging (for the 200,000 un-issued shares he's proposing to buy) is new money over and above any investment made under the deal with Mike Parker. Has all the investment JF agreed to put in to match MP been made? If not why not?

These are not esoteric questions. They go to the heart of the issue.

Quoted from Grim_Exile

surely this is good news for all supporters?  Supporter representation at board level is a massive step forwards IMO.

I'm not so sure.

"A seat on the board" sounds wonderful and gives you this lovely image of handshakes, smiles and every fan being listened to.

But let's step back for a second.

A lot of people say the trust "are caught between a rock and a hard place", "gun to their head" etc

I don't personally believe that but assuming you think it's true, what can be realistically achieved anyway except perhaps even more fan discontentment ?

It might also be argued MT haven't represented fans interests so far.
Even if you wildly assume they have, why should they get a seat on the board when they're only speaking for 300 fans ?

Surely it should be for ALL fans, not just 300 (a fair number of which rarely talk about what happens on the pitch anyway and only seem to pop up where boardroom issues spring to the fore ! )

What about the other 5000+ fans ? Will they be listened to ?
If so then how come they won't be listened to in terms of the vote right now ?

And that's not even taking into account how competent the trust board are.

I'd like to know the exact details of how and what's gonna be decided before they march into the boardroom and have them "representing" me (or if it's all fans, others not yet convinced)

Questions..

- What if the trust board lobby the boardroom for something the majority of fans don't want ? More upheaval and bad feeling ?
- What if it goes wrong - how do we remove them from the boardroom ?
- What is their exact role within the boardroom ? What can they do in there they can't do outside of it ?
- What type of issues will be discussed ?
- How will boardroom issues be raised ? Will the trust board ask their members/fans to vote on every issue before they raise it in the boardroom ?

Besides which, what if the majority of members DON'T want a seat on the board ?
Or if the share issue is supposedly "democratic" is this not part of the democratic process ?
  
I signed up to have MY say on the issues I wanted to have a say on.
Just personally the last thing I want right now is THIS trust board anywhere near the boardroom !

Bottom line though is I still think the trust board have NO MANDATE to act on behalf of the majority of fans and should stick to being a major shareholder until such time they get a much larger fanbase on board.

Until they do, this could be asking for trouble IMO.
I reckon we could see more of the same division we've seen amongst the fans in recent days.
In any case, think it's premature for anyone to just blindly accept it until it's all been discussed and poentially put to a vote.

Maybe fans need to realise not everything that sounds great (like a supporters trust ?) always ends up great !

Is the yes vote in doubt? I thought it was a forgone conclusion

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

Still a "no" I'm afraid. Perhaps even more so given the way it has arisen. Can you imagine the stink if during the Scottish independence referrendum campaign Cameron truned round and offered to extend the deal by which England subsidises Scotland?

The position offered sounds like a sop at the 11th hour  to sway more members to vote yes (and a bit of a face saver for the Trust).In the original Q&A's this was already mentioned so not sure why this is considered news or 11th hour shananegans It's a toothless position on the board. A step forward but still toothless.and unless the Trust has a spare couple of million quid hanging around it could never be anything else!

As someone pointed out on another thread. there was a deal to be done. Sell the shares to Fenty, the Trust then has £200k which is far more than the other directors (bar Fenty), it should have a full seat then by right. Control of the club resides in the boardroom so solving Fenty's concern. Not difficult is it? The Trust said in the original letter than they had offered a number of solutions which, for reasons you and I dont know where not acceptable to all parties.

The inference from previous Trust statements was that the current deal was the best available. Now Fenty seemingly offers more! There was more on the table all the time if only they'd stood firm. You are assuming that the latest negotiations regarding the seat on the board are dependent upon a 'Yes' vote. I don't get the impression that it is

In it's Q&A the Trust said it had no immediate ambition to join the board. So if it accepts this now, what was the previous statement all about? A fully blown seat on the board was not their desired ambition at the time because of the financial implications but as they have explained, they were, and are, seeking a non executive position which doesnt put them in the financial mire if the club goes to the wall
Apart from the fact it ought to be the immediate goal to get on the club board, it all looks a bit of a sodomist's muddle.

Vote No. Let's have a proper round of negotiations with no arms up backs and do this thing properly Neither you (I assume) nor I were party to the negotiations and as they have been going on since november I think it was fair to say that this 'solution' wasnt the first proposal. I think it is grossly unfair to suggest no negotiations have taken place when we are not party to the meetings.

My view is that we, as Trust members, either let the trust board manage situations or we remove them and stand against them. There wern't a huge number of people coming forward previously and although many criticise their every move I have been reasonably happy from the sidelines in the steps taken in the last 4 months. I am told membership has doubled. The membership of what 325? compares well with Arsenal and Newcastle who have around 1100. I have had regular e-mail updates and now it looks like we will at least have fan represntative on the board. When have we ever been remotely close to that?

Quoted from Harlem mariner

Is the yes vote in doubt? I thought it was a forgone conclusion

The whole vote is dubious now and should be voided as soon as possible.

Quoted from BlackBoots

My view is that we, as Trust members, either let the trust board manage situations or we remove them and stand against them. There wern't a huge number of people coming forward previously and although many criticise their every move I have been reasonably happy from the sidelines in the steps taken in the last 4 months. I am told membership has doubled. The membership of what 325? compares well with Arsenal and Newcastle who have around 1100. I have had regular e-mail updates and now it looks like we will at least have fan represntative on the board. When have we ever been remotely close to that?

I am not a member of the trust so correct me if my understanding is incorrect. The current trust members have elected a board to speak on their behalf and possibly make decisions on their behalf.

Will the trust board or all members decide who is to sit in at GTFC board meetings and will that person be able to make decisions on their own or have to consult with other board members or all members.

I can see it now JF: "and (to the trust board member) how do you feel about the current proposal?"

Trust board member: "Er not sure I will have to get back to you"

And as for your comment "we will at least have fan representative on the board." Again I ask how do you speak for the fans as a whole?

To clarify, the Trust board did not need the memberships approval to carry out any share transfer but felt it was the right thing to do.

Clearly, that sort of approach is not always possible. If the members don't like how board members perform, they can be removed when/if they stand for re-election and replaced by the likes of 80's Glory et al or anyone that can be bothered to do instead of just sitting and complaining.

Don't complain if you won't do. The Trust board is open to almost anyone.