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LocalLadGTFC
April 22, 2024, 11:38am
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Quoted from diehardmariner
I'm torn between wanting a complete overhaul of the squad or seeing if Artell can continue to improve those within it.

It's going to be a hard sell to offload anyone under contract from a side that's lingered above the drop into non-league all season.  No-one in the league is wanting too many of our players and I can't see many in non-league having the cash to pay their wages.  

Going on who's out of contract, I think it's probably only Green and maybe Maher I'd look at keeping (not counting Ainley as I can't imagine a scenario where we've not already offered him a deal).  Green has been a different player in the last few weeks and going forward is far more impactful than when he sits,  the question is do we look to improve on that?  

Maher showed on Saturday what he brings to the backline, he was my MOTM and especially on that left hand side I think he's got all the qualities to be very good and effective.  Not convinced Artell fancies him though.  Defence has looked much improved of late but that's largely without him.  

Clifton is the other one.  As a midfielder, definitely not.  We need to upgrade and he doesn't bring that.  As a wingback I would say yes, if we're playing that system.  Winger? No.  Need more impactful players.

In a scenario where all 4 stay (Green, Clifton, Maher and Ainley) that's a big chunk of your midfield retained, plus the returning Hunt.  I think Ainley completely changes the dynamic of the midfield but it's still laced with the legacy of a side that floundered this season.  

Even still, that means Eisa, Gnahoua, Glennon, Hume, Amos, Holohan and Khan going with Cartwright, Smith, Andrews, Wood and Obikwu going back to parent clubs.  Of those released, you've probably got at least 5 on decent money - is that enough to bring about the improvements needed?  

Gut feeling is the axe is swinging and we'll see 2 stay.  


I imagine Denver is on a decent chunk of money, same with Otis and Gav... we got rid of Waterfall who was one of the highest earners in January but I imagine Thompson hasn't come here for his love of fish and chips so probably replaces that wage. They'll be money for him to work with, but like JS and DA have already alluded to, it's more about being smart with what you have rather than having a large budget. This squad is the biggest budget we've had in probably the last 20 or so years and it's got us no where. DA managed to convince Thompson who has spent the past few seasons at the top end of L1/championship that the project was worth it despite us being sat in a precarious league position... i'm excited to see what he can do in the summer.
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AdamHaddock
April 22, 2024, 11:46am

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One habit I really want the club to get out of is retaining so many players who produce the odd good performance here and there but are poor or anonymous the rest of the time.
More drivers and fewer passengers


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Hagrid
April 22, 2024, 11:55am

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Quoted from AdamHaddock
One habit I really want the club to get out of is retaining so many players who produce the odd good performance here and there but are poor or anonymous the rest of the time.
More drivers and fewer passengers


thats our fanbase in a nutshell. Wanting Green kept on because he's improved for 5 games for example.

He's been here 2 years, cant fault his effort, but he isnt good enough.
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diehardmariner
April 22, 2024, 11:59am
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I'd guess Conteh wasn't on a pittance, just in terms of managing to get him here in the first place.

Big part of being smarter could be the use of the fringe players too, especially those young lads who won't be drawing big money yet.  Over the course of the season how much did players like Khan, Efete, Amos and Waterfall, even Hunt cost.   Players who were in or around the squad but had limited contributions on the field.  

You don't have as many of those 'just in case' types and you don't need as big a squad, in theory anyway.  Young lads could help bridge those numbers a bit.

Generally just better recruitment and squad building would help too.  It's beyond poor that we've used 3 left-backs and 3 right-backs over the course of the season and not because of injuries either.  We've even played a few games towards the back end of the season with Vernam and Clifton down those flank instead of players you might think are better fits.
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Zmariner
April 22, 2024, 12:02pm
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I have to disagree, not saying a starter but would I have him in the squad, all about opinions and Artell made him captain. We know we need some better players but Green has a role for me. At least he can win a header utm
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diehardmariner
April 22, 2024, 12:05pm
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If we're gonna improve, be it from whatever starting position, then it has to be a case that we continually improve on what is in the starting eleven.  

I think the question with Green is do you want him to stay around as back up, does he want to be back and can we afford to have him as back up?  

If we can bring in someone who is better than him as first choice AND someone who is better than him as back up, fantastic.  It's bye-bye Kieran, thanks for your efforts.  It's not likely though.  Improve on him now with new body.  Next season we improve again, new body becomes the back up and even newer body becomes the first choice.  

There's 3 contracted midfielders (Thompson, Hunt and Khouri), plus Ainley.  That doesn't leave an awful lot of room to play with.  Khouri you can potentially offload but I don't think it frees up big money.  Hunt will be on good money considering he signed a new deal at Sheff Weds six-months before we paid a fee for him, getting rid of him will be tough.  Thompson is your main man.  3 heading out, including Clifton. All be high end earners but with a reduced budget/smarter way of spending/wages used in other positions.
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LocalLadGTFC
April 22, 2024, 12:22pm
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Quoted from diehardmariner
I'd guess Conteh wasn't on a pittance, just in terms of managing to get him here in the first place.

Big part of being smarter could be the use of the fringe players too, especially those young lads who won't be drawing big money yet.  Over the course of the season how much did players like Khan, Efete, Amos and Waterfall, even Hunt cost.   Players who were in or around the squad but had limited contributions on the field.  

You don't have as many of those 'just in case' types and you don't need as big a squad, in theory anyway.  Young lads could help bridge those numbers a bit.

Generally just better recruitment and squad building would help too.  It's beyond poor that we've used 3 left-backs and 3 right-backs over the course of the season and not because of injuries either.  We've even played a few games towards the back end of the season with Vernam and Clifton down those flank instead of players you might think are better fits.


it'll be interesting to see if we give any of the young lads a new deal, we signed Bramwell from Newcastle and i've been impressed every time i've seen him play but those opportunities have been very limited. We have Gardner on a 3 year deal and I hope we don't let him stagnate like Khouri because he's a real talent, he just has that nack of scoring goals and is just a natural goalscorer. I'm hoping we start giving the young lads more of a chance to break into the first team.
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MarinerDevil
April 22, 2024, 12:34pm
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Quoted from AdamHaddock
One habit I really want the club to get out of is retaining so many players who produce the odd good performance here and there but are poor or anonymous the rest of the time.
More drivers and fewer passengers

But another terrible habit we have is to get rid of players who are pretty good but inconsistent, or haven't reached their full potential yet, believing that we can "do much better", only to be left fighting over scraps at the end of the summer and ultimately being left with a worse squad. What I really want for us is to be able to release/sell players knowing we have one or two similar or better replacements already in the pipeline. It's what Lincoln have been doing well, with Joe Hutchinson part of that process, and it's what we should be aiming for with our new centralised, data-driven recruitment approach.

Take Donovan Wilson for example. Most people don't seem to rate him, but if you look at his goals/min (https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/109/stats/season/20723/players/goals_per_90/league-two-players) he's actually quite a high performer at this level, sitting 12th in the Goals per 90 chart. Whenever I've watched him this season he's always managed to get into goal scoring positions and he has a pretty good chance conversion rate (apart from the Newport game). But most people seem to think we can do better. Can we? I'd like us to be very confident that we can before we decide to give him away.

Elsewhere, I think Liam Smith has been quietly impressive since he came back into the side. His contract at Cheltenham is up in the summer and he's looked increasingly assured in that RWB role, he could be worth a contract. I also agree with DHM that Niall Maher has been unfairly maligned and has looked comfortable with bringing the ball out of defence, at least until the whole squad's confidence crumbled at the tail end of 2023. But if we think we need an upgrade in central defence (and we almost certainly do), he might have to make way.
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Theimperialcoroner
April 22, 2024, 1:01pm

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Quoted from diehardmariner
If we're gonna improve, be it from whatever starting position, then it has to be a case that we continually improve on what is in the starting eleven.  

I think the question with Green is do you want him to stay around as back up, does he want to be back and can we afford to have him as back up?  

If we can bring in someone who is better than him as first choice AND someone who is better than him as back up, fantastic.  It's bye-bye Kieran, thanks for your efforts.  It's not likely though.  Improve on him now with new body.  Next season we improve again, new body becomes the back up and even newer body becomes the first choice.  

There's 3 contracted midfielders (Thompson, Hunt and Khouri), plus Ainley.  That doesn't leave an awful lot of room to play with.  Khouri you can potentially offload but I don't think it frees up big money.  Hunt will be on good money considering he signed a new deal at Sheff Weds six-months before we paid a fee for him, getting rid of him will be tough.  Thompson is your main man.  3 heading out, including Clifton. All be high end earners but with a reduced budget/smarter way of spending/wages used in other positions.


I’d be very disappointed if we kept Hunt. at the expense of Green. One wants to play for us the other seems like he isn’t that bothered.


Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
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lew chaterleys lover
April 22, 2024, 1:03pm
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Quoted from MarinerDevil

But another terrible habit we have is to get rid of players who are pretty good but inconsistent, or haven't reached their full potential yet, believing that we can "do much better", only to be left fighting over scraps at the end of the summer and ultimately being left with a worse squad. What I really want for us is to be able to release/sell players knowing we have one or two similar or better replacements already in the pipeline. It's what Lincoln have been doing well, with Joe Hutchinson part of that process, and it's what we should be aiming for with our new centralised, data-driven recruitment approach.

Take Donovan Wilson for example. Most people don't seem to rate him, but if you look at his goals/min (https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/109/stats/season/20723/players/goals_per_90/league-two-players) he's actually quite a high performer at this level, sitting 12th in the Goals per 90 chart. Whenever I've watched him this season he's always managed to get into goal scoring positions and he has a pretty good chance conversion rate (apart from the Newport game). But most people seem to think we can do better. Can we? I'd like us to be very confident that we can before we decide to give him away.

Elsewhere, I think Liam Smith has been quietly impressive since he came back into the side. His contract at Cheltenham is up in the summer and he's looked increasingly assured in that RWB role, he could be worth a contract. I also agree with DHM that Niall Maher has been unfairly maligned and has looked comfortable with bringing the ball out of defence, at least until the whole squad's confidence crumbled at the tail end of 2023. But if we think we need an upgrade in central defence (and we almost certainly do), he might have to make way.


Very good points. I am as guilty as anyone in thinking we can do better than xyz player, only to find we can't.  That criticism is also certainly true of Paul Hurst.

As with everything else in football it is about context. A good player can look poor in some sides, yet fulfill his potential in another. Orsi being the most prominent recent example.

I have more confidence in Artell to get the balance and blend right, as I think he will be able to improve and bring the best out of players.

One thing I would like to steer clear of is academy players from Championship other PL clubs who like to play the game as if it is a glorified training session. That is the way they have been brought up but it doesn't really work in league 2.
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