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I've been to Wembley for a vital qualifier game. In the afternoon all round London it was manic. England fans in all the bars chanting and generally going nuts. What it must be like today, god only knows
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Line up apparently been leaked, 5 at the back with trippier one for Saka.
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Line up apparently been leaked, 5 at the back with trippier one for Saka.
Presumably Southgate wants as many bodies in midfield as possible to disrupt Jorginho, Verratti and Barella. It relieves Sterling of defensive duties and allows him to play further forward than Kane. Kane can then sit on Jorginho when Italy have the ball. Not sure if it will work mind. It’s got 0-0 written all over it. |
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Getting excited now. The other two old Grimsby guys in the locality are coming over later. No doubt hamstrings will be pulled celebrating if we win.   |
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I’m not sure why all the media outlets seem surprised that Southgate has gone for Trippier and a back 3. I called it straight after the Denmark game on the match thread.
Italy play a front 3 like Germany (although a 4-3-3 rather than Germany’s 3-4-3) so Southgate was always likely to go with 3 at the back and Trippier & Shaw as wing-backs.
I’m a bit disappointed he’s gone with Mount over Saka as this Italy team are vulnerable to pace on the counter attack, but I’m sure we’ll see Saka at some point if he’s needed. I suppose Southgate is worried about being outnumbered in central midfield and Mount can/will drop back in as required.
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| TownSNAFU5 |
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Saka can come on later when the CBs are older and more tired.
Safety first. We do not want to go behind to the Italians. We can attack later with a squad offensive.
Sterling is only so good because he played at BP for an England youth team. Possibly he was told that he would end up at grounds like this if he did not develop and work very hard.
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This has the makings of an interesting tactical contest.
3/5 at the back is the way I would go. We have options on the bench to change it as the game pans out.
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This has the makings of an interesting tactical contest.
3/5 at the back is the way I would go. We have options on the bench to change it as the game pans out.
Yes. Expecting it to be cagier than an ‘Escape From Alcatraz’ reboot starring Nicholas Cage. |
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Nice to see a Town flag behind Lineker
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I really hope i delete this comment and say well done but WTF! Against Germany we did 5 at the back but we atleast had 2 pacey wingers and went 523... Wtf we doing now? 5212? We need to get the ball wide and hurt them that way.
Aarggh stay positive. Keep cool. It's coming home.
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I really hope i delete this comment and say well done but WTF! Against Germany we did 5 at the back but we atleast had 2 pacey wingers and went 523... Wtf we doing now? 5212? We need to get the ball wide and hurt them that way.
Aarggh stay positive. Keep cool. It's coming home.
Difference is Germany played 3-4-3 so only had 2 central midfielders. Italy play 4-3-3 so there’s a risk Rice & Phillips will be overrun. Picking Mount makes sense because he can seemlessly slot back into midfield as and when needed. |
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| promotion plaice |
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FFS...
"Fans have stormed Wembley stadium and broken through security barriers as chaos has reigned ahead of England's Euro 2020 final against Italy.
Footage on social media shows dozens of people trampling down the cordon and being chased by stewards as they run into the main concourses in the stadium, just hours before Gareth Southgate's men are due to play in their first major final for 55 years.
It is unclear whether any of the supporters have tickets to the game."
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We have enough in this squad to win this game, I reckon it’s too tight to call between the two best teams in the tournament.
I’m no analyst or tactician but the 3 lads in the middle for Italy give you very little time on the ball if Rice, Philips and Mount can deal with that then we’ll create some chances.
I reckon it’s going to be ultra cagey and will be deceived by 1 goal.
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| "Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  |
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| promotion plaice |
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Here is the starting line-up Southgate has named and hopes will guide England through to EURO 2020 glory.
England XI : Jordan Pickford; Kieran Trippier, Kyle Walker, Harry Maguire, John Stones, Luke Shaw; Declan Rice, Kalvin Phillips , Mason Mount; Raheem Sterling, Harry Kane
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I hope he is not overthinking this. It could so easily be pressed back to a back 8 with 2 strikers left isolated and having to pass backwards if they do get the ball. Hope not.
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Agree with Ron, looks quite a defensive set up, more about stopping them then going for it.
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I hope he is not overthinking this. It could so easily be pressed back to a back 8 with 2 strikers left isolated and having to pass backwards if they do get the ball. Hope not.
You could look at it the other way. If Sterling and Kane are isolated, they will only be up against 3 or 4 Italian players on the break. It only takes Kane to find a pocket of space. There’s nobody better in the world 16-25 yards out. Apart from Menno Willems but he’s retired. |
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Agree with Ron, looks quite a defensive set up, more about stopping them then going for it.
As Shearer said, if you offered Southgate 0-0 at 65 / 70 mins he’d bite your hand off. Condense the match. Options off the bench. Tire out Verratti and the Italian CBs. |
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| DB |
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As Shearer said, if you offered Southgate 0-0 at 65 / 70 mins he’d bite your hand off.
Condense the match. Options off the bench. Tire out Verratti and the Italian CBs.
Agree with you, don't let the Italians score in the first 60 mins, and the game's ours for the taking. |
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| promotion plaice |
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Decent start  |
| When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?” |
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1 - 0 up couldn't be a better start for us
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And relax
Half time... Italy 0-1 England and deserved
At least if we lose now we have made a game of it, I feared Italy to dominate
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| bobbyturtle |
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Italy are nearly as excrement as us under Hollywood at playing out from the back
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| Icenian Prediction League 2015 (Game 2) winner |
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| DB |
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And relax
Half time... Italy 0-1 England and deserved
At least if we lose now we have made a game of it, I feared Italy to dominate
So did I, but we seem so composed both with and without the ball. You name it and in the first half, we had it. Same again please, and of course another goal. Come on England footballs halfway home.  |
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This is actually quite tortuous as you know with England we’ll probably do our best now to make it hard for ourselves…… I hope I’m wrong but you can see the Italian’s getting to 1 - 1 then drag it out to penalty kicks.
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| DB |
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This is actually quite tortuous as you know with England we’ll probably do our best now to make it hard for ourselves…… I hope I’m wrong but you can see the Italian’s getting to 1 - 1 then drag it out to penalty kicks.
Sorry to disagree my friend, but Italy have done little in attack. The odd shot but mostly their attack has petered out. England are going to win, positive and enthusiastic victory. PS. The red wines good! |
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FFS...
"Fans have stormed Wembley stadium and broken through security barriers as chaos has reigned ahead of England's Euro 2020 final against Italy.
Footage on social media shows dozens of people trampling down the cordon and being chased by stewards as they run into the main concourses in the stadium, just hours before Gareth Southgate's men are due to play in their first major final for 55 years.
It is unclear whether any of the supporters have tickets to the game."
I agree with you and they should be arrested. But it doesn’t help when you see fûckwits like Tom Cruise and David Beckham colonosocoping their way into the ground. |
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Is it time for Grealish & Saka to test the Italian defence?
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| promotion plaice |
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1-1
Time to make changes Gareth
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Sh!t they scored
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| Kris2 |
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Is it time for Grealish & Saka to test the Italian defence?
Grealish should have been on from the start but hasn't started a game all tournament. Mount is still on the pitch even though he's spent most of the game looking lost and out of his depth. |
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| Davec |
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That has been coming all half, and that is what happens when you decide to show zero attacking threat and attempt to see only a one goal lead out.
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| DB |
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I think England have become complacent, but Saka on might help.
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Grealish should have been on from the start but hasn't started a game all tournament. Mount is still on the pitch even though he's spent most of the game looking lost and out of his depth.
Grealish can only play on the left. So if you ‘play Grealish from the start’, you have to push Sterling to the right. Sterling’s been our main attacking threat this tournament - - from the left. |
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How Mount still on he’s had a shocker.
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| promotion plaice |
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Get Drinkell on.
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| When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?” |
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Tell you what, any hope of hosting a World Cup in our lifetime is out of the window.
We really are a nation of tools (not the players, the fans). Complete fücktards
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How Mount still on he’s had a shocker.
Probably because Southgate thinks he's having a better game than you. |
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The problem is, Sterling and Kane won’t come off, which I understand.
Southgate’s just brought Saka on. So if he did bring on Grealish, where does he play?
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Full time 1-1 Extra time coming up Let's make some noise for the boys |
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How was that only a yellow? On the street that would have been a hate crime.
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We've been average since the 30 minute mark. Sat back and conceded possession, gave it away when we got the ball. We have the players to hurt these but not sure if Gareth is brave enough?
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Some of those stands are packed. They’re meant to be 2/3 full aren’t they?
That’s what happens when they price tickets at exorbitant prices so only celebrities and the wealthy have access to the tickets. I notice there’s still a ring of steel around scientology’s Tom Cruise.
Not helped when you have a government who can’t even follow their own rules.
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England look knackered, very little movement in mid field not helping us.
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It is what I feared. Good job we did score early because the Italians have sussed the plan and pushed England back and back. Even Sako or Grealish is going to struggle to make an impact now. Maybe pens is the best hope but still time for someone to win it.
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Some of those stands are packed. They’re meant to be 2/3 full aren’t they?
That’s what happens when they price tickets at exorbitant prices so only celebrities and the wealthy have access to the tickets. I notice there’s still a ring of steel around scientology’s Tom Cruise.
Not helped when you have a government who can’t even follow their own rules.
I understand your point, but the thread is about the first England game in 55 years. |
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I understand your point, but the thread is about the first England game in 55 years.
There was an England game 4 days ago 😀 |
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| promotion plaice |
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Some of those stands are packed. They’re meant to be 2/3 full aren’t they?
That’s what happens when they price tickets at exorbitant prices so only celebrities and the wealthy have access to the tickets. I notice there’s still a ring of steel around scientology’s Tom Cruise.
Not helped when you have a government who can’t even follow their own rules.
So called fans overpowered the stewards and got into Wembley before the game allegedly, probably without tickets buts let's blame Boris FFS. |
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There was an England game 4 days ago 😀
Sorry, I don't see your point. |
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Sorry, I don't see your point.
You said the first England match in 55 years. It’s been 4 days since the last one |
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You said the first England match in 55 years. It’s been 4 days since the last one
I think I was referring to an England team being in a cup final. Anyhow let's hope we win tonight |
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So called fans overpowered the stewards and got into Wembley before the game allegedly, probably without tickets buts let's blame Boris FFS.
My point is there is meant to be 75% capacity. The rules are there for a reason, whether we agree with them or not. But when we see the government, rich and celebrities not following the rules, then the rest of the public think they don’t have to either. If this was say, Iran, and the fans were packed in, blocking the steps we’d be moaning how they are backwards countries unable to control their fans. |
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Is that not a red? Studs up
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Jorginho knows it which is why he went down
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My point is there is meant to be 75% capacity.
The rules are there for a reason, whether we agree with them or not.
But when we see the government, rich and celebrities not following the rules, then the rest of the public think they don’t have to either.
If this was say, Iran, and the fans were packed in, blocking the steps we’d be moaning how they are backwards countries unable to control their fans.
Agree with what you post, especially with a Fifa man coming in from Brazil. But it is about the euro fina.l |
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Sorry to disagree my friend, but Italy have done little in attack. The odd shot but mostly their attack has petered out. England are going to win, positive and enthusiastic victory. PS. The red wines good!
Not that good 😌 |
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Penalties
Think they have the better keeper but let's see.
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Not that good 😌
50/50 lets hope it's us |
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Penalties
Think they have the better keeper but let's see.
Well he's much taller and his arms are double as long as t rex. So they just have to kick it beyond his tiny reach while we have to deal with a man mountain. |
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Jorginho to win it. He’s going bottom right
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Wow! Brilliant from Pickford
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That was huge balls from Pickford
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Amazed that Saka was left to take the last one but overall you can’t quibble at the England effort all tournament.
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Sorry, but there were some absolute crap penalties taken there.
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SH!T LOST AGAIN BUT WE WILL COME BACK AGAIN.
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Gutted but well done to England (us) for reaching the final.
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Why a literal child was taking a penalty in a world cup final I don't know, neither of those subs did anything either. I guess at least Southgate will be able to comfort them as somebody who also choked on penalties in a major tournament and they'll probably get some sweet deal to be in an advert laughing about their failure.
Guess we wait a couple of years now to do it all again.
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Why a literal child was taking a penalty in a world cup final I don't know, neither of those subs did anything either. I guess at least Southgate will be able to comfort them as somebody who also choked on penalties in a major tournament and they'll probably get some sweet deal to be in an advert laughing about their failure.
Guess we wait a couple of years now to do it all again.
Who did you want to take the 5th pen? Grealish - poor pen record Sterling - awful pen record There’s not a lot else we could have done |
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You have to question Sancho & Saka being 4th and 5th. Putting that sort of pressure on a 21 year old & a 19 year old.
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You have to question Sancho & Saka being 4th and 5th. Putting that sort of pressure on a 21 year old & a 19 year old.
Yes, but who else takes them? |
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They're a great set of young lads and their time will come. No shame in that at all, just beaten in a lottery on the night by a better team.
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Who did you want to take the 5th pen?
Grealish - poor pen record
Sterling - awful pen record
There’s not a lot else we could have done
Rashford. A better order would have been… Kane Saka Maguire Sancho Rashford |
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Rashford.
A better order would have been…
Kane
Saka
Maguire
Sancho
Rashford
I do see your point The risk is it would be over by the 5th. But I see what you mean. The problem was we didn’t have 5 good penalty takers, through no fault of the squad. It’s a skill which our current squad aren’t great at. They have many, many talents but penalties aren’t their strong point. |
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Rashford.
A better order would have been…
Kane
Saka
Maguire
Sancho
Rashford
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. |
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Lost it in the 2nd half. Shocking tactics from Southgate
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I hate it when players take off their losers medals. It’s all for the cameras. You got to the final. Be proud, you did nothing wrong.
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Lost it in the 2nd half. Shocking tactics from Southgate
Or just a really good comeback by the Italians? |
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Lost it in the 2nd half. Shocking tactics from Southgate
Shocking in what way? I don’t think he told our midfield three and defence to sit 10 yards deeper. |
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bad team selection from Southgate
Henderson shocking Mount done nothing in any game
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Well, those 2 late subs worked well. |
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Unfortunately, Southgate didn't make a substitution that worked today with the last two the worst. I would say it was a pity that Dean Henderson wasn't on the bench to bring on, but Pickford did well enough. Southgate's cautious approach didn't work tonight (though it has in general this tournament) and we had too many players not quite on their game which didn't help.
We need to find a viable alternative to Kane as he was obviously knackered for the last hour of play but we couldn't afford to take him off. A real shame that Rashford has been out of sorts so much during 2021.The Italians changed their forwards and continued to be a threat, but we had to keep Kane on because a below par Rashford isn't up to it and Calvert-Lewin isn't good enough.
I feel most sorry for Saka who had a couple of good games this tournament but a couple of poor ones. He shouldn't have been taking a penalty today but should. Be an important player for England in future years.
Despite this, I'm happy with how we've done in the tournament overall as we've done better than I expected. I'm hopeful we'll progress to the World Cup finals next summer in good form and then, with a tweak or two, can perhaps compete once again. Providing it isn't too ludicrously hot!
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bad team selection from Southgate
Henderson shocking Mount done nothing in any game
Would you like to explain what you would have done? Italy are 34 (thirty four) games unbeaten. |
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Italy have more defenders taking pens.
Any system that works is fine. Having Rashford and Sancho taking pens when both have hardly played for 2 months seems a risk. Especially when coming on and not up to speed. Having a teenager taking pens is also a risk.
Italy better overall. We struggled after 30 mins. Learn more from adversity than success. Need 18 months to gain valuable experience for World Cup. We still struggle with passing and keeping possession.
Best team won.
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Unfortunately, Southgate didn't make a substitution that worked today with the last two the worst. I would say it was a pity that Dean Henderson wasn't on the bench to bring on, but Pickford did well enough. Southgate's cautious approach didn't work tonight (though it has in general this tournament) and we had too many players not quite on their game which didn't help.
We need to find a viable alternative to Kane as he was obviously knackered for the last hour of play but we couldn't afford to take him off. A real shame that Rashford has been out of sorts so much during 2021.The Italians changed their forwards and continued to be a threat, but we had to keep Kane on because a below par Rashford isn't up to it and Calvert-Lewin isn't good enough.
I feel most sorry for Saka who had a couple of good games this tournament but a couple of poor ones. He shouldn't have been taking a penalty today but should. Be an important player for England in future years.
Despite this, I'm happy with how we've done in the tournament overall as we've done better than I expected. I'm hopeful we'll progress to the World Cup finals next summer in good form and then, with a tweak or two, can perhaps compete once again. Providing it isn't too ludicrously hot!
I’m absolutely flabbergasted that you can suggest if Henderson was on the bench he should have come on, I can’t see how you can substantiate that. |
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I think all we can take from this is that on the night the best team won and the future looks bright for England, they took us to a major final and I believe they will do again. Some real talent breaking through
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Absolutley gutted once it went to penos it could of gone either way, we've done so well this tournament am proud of the players.
It hurts at the moment though we'll played England.
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Italy have more defenders taking pens.
Any system that works is fine. Having Rashford and Sancho taking pens when both have hardly played for 2 months seems a risk. Especially when coming on and not up to speed. Having a teenager taking pens is also a risk.
Italy better overall. We struggled after 30 mins. Learn more from adversity than success. Need 18 months to gain valuable experience for World Cup. We still struggle with passing and keeping possession.
Best team won.
It has to also be said the Italian penalties weren’t that great either. |
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I’m absolutely flabbergasted that you can suggest if Henderson was on the bench he should have come on, I can’t see how you can substantiate that.
It's a ridiculous suggestion. Italy missed two penalties. Any reasonable side would have seen it out. Question the substitutions but trying to single out the keeper is ludicrous. Hope the three lads who missed stay off social media for a good while now. |
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I’m absolutely flabbergasted that you can suggest if Henderson was on the bench he should have come on, I can’t see how you can substantiate that.
Henderson is notably good at saving penalties. Pickford did well, but if you can bring on a specialist penalty taker to increase your chances of getting +1 in a penalty shoot-out, it makes more sense to bring on a specialist penalty-saver to potentially make it -2 or -3 goals. Pickford did very well on the night and saved a couple, but it's not madness to think bringing on a keeper with a better record with penalties might be worthwhile. Very easy to substantiate. |
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The biggest issue was that the 3 players to miss a penalty were all substitutes. I don't envy any of them as I used to bloody well hate taking a penalty. I'd score a lot more shots from 20 yards than 12.
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It's a ridiculous suggestion.
Italy missed two penalties.
Any reasonable side would have seen it out.
Question the substitutions but trying to single out the keeper is ludicrous.
Hope the three lads who missed stay off social media for a good while now.
What is ludicrous is that you think I singled out the keeper, who I said did well on the night! |
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BBC said Kane did not have one touch in the penalty area in 120 mins. Shocked.
How can Chiellini at 36 has the energy to get on our goal line?
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Henderson is notably good at saving penalties. Pickford did well, but if you can bring on a specialist penalty taker to increase your chances of getting +1 in a penalty shoot-out, it makes more sense to bring on a specialist penalty-saver to potentially make it -2 or -3 goals. Pickford did very well on the night and saved a couple, but it's not madness to think bringing on a keeper with a better record with penalties might be worthwhile. Very easy to substantiate.
You’re only suggesting it because Henderson played a few games for Town. How many penalties has Henderson saved in his career? |
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What is ludicrous is that you think I singled out the keeper, who I said did well on the night!
But would have substituted him for Henderson if available? It's Mr Hindsight I believe. |
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Henderson isnt even in the squad
Better team won on the night and it hurts. It hurts so much, but the lads done us proud. And this team can build on it
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You’re only suggesting it because Henderson played a few games for Town. How many penalties has Henderson saved in his career?
Almost 50% of the ones he has faced. The fact that he once played for town for a bit is neither here nor there. After tonight (where he did very well), Pickford has saved approximately 25% of the penalties he has faced. |
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But would have substituted him for Henderson if available?
It's Mr Hindsight I believe.
Try reading what I posted. |
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Henderson isnt even in the squad
No shite, Sherlock. |
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My only criticism, and it’s not handsight, is that I have been saying for weeks that we had no chance in a shootout. Gareth will have been well aware of that as Sterling, Grealish, Henderson etc were definite no’s for penalties.
We probably should have ‘ripped the pants off it’ in ET2 but that’s very easy for me to say.
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Almost 50% of the ones he has faced. The fact that he once played for town for a bit is neither here nor there. After tonight (where he did very well), Pickford has saved approximately 25% of the penalties he has faced.
Where did you get the “almost 50%” stat from you’re making it up. He won’t be saving many for Man U as they never get any given against them. |
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No shite, Sherlock.
So why are you harping on about it then? |
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I braved a COVID outbreak, the wrath of the police and a big queue to get some beers in. I suffered the roller coaster or a penalty shootout. I should be devastated but am I? Nah. I'm a Grimsby fan. A Mariner, it's just a another North Sea storm to weather. Looking forward to Town's first game. I'll pick myself up and dust myself off and get behind Hurst and his black 'n' army. Onward and up the Mariners.
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I braved a COVID outbreak, the wrath of the police and a big queue to get some beers in. I suffered the roller coaster or a penalty shootout. I should be devastated but am I? Nah. I'm a Grimsby fan. A Mariner, it's just a another North Sea storm to weather. Looking forward to Town's first game. I'll pick myself up and dust myself off and get behind Hurst and his black 'n' army. Onward and up the Mariners.
Are you still in HCMC/Sgn? |
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So why are you harping on about it then?
I'm not, but when a few posters completely misread or misunderstand what I wrote very clearly, I am very entitled to respond. No hindsight involved. Nothing ridiculous. No suggestion that Henderson was available in the first place. |
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Fair enough you’re clearly not making it up but the assertion that if Henderson was in the bench he should have replaced Pickford is complete bollox. |
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I think all we can take from this is that on the night the best team won and the future looks bright for England, they took us to a major final and I believe they will do again. Some real talent breaking through
I'm not so sure, I wasn't that impressed with most of the other teams and as Southgate received all the plaudits for getting us to the final he has to accept responsibility for us losing that game. I thought we were too defensive in the second half giving the Italians too much possession and when we do that Sterling is a waste of space. Not sure what instructions he gave to Saka but if it was to contribute sod all then it really came off. As for making substitutions for penalty takers that is really sad, if they aren't good enough to play in the match then what makes him think they are good enough to take penalties? |
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Best team won on the night. Italy bossed the game from 30 mins onwards and the two old warhorses were not troubled at all by Kane and Sterling. Chiellini was playing left wing most of the second half, and Bonucci scored a goal and a penalty.
Best performer for us was Pickford I thought, which sums up the game.
The Italians did what the Italians do and found a way. They were high fiving each other at 120 mins and looked far more confident of winning the shoot out than we did. Sadly, that turned out to be the case. Our penalties were very weak and I think I would have saved the one from Saka.
The wait goes on and I'm beginning to think I will never see England win another tournament in my lifetime. We just don't seem to have that mental strength you need to prevail.
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Not sure what instructions he gave to Saka but if it was to contribute sod all then it really came off. As for making substitutions for penalty takers that is really sad, if they aren't good enough to play in the match then what makes him think they are good enough to take penalties?
Look at the penalty records of some of the best players of all time, particularly in recent years. Messi - poor record C Ronaldo’s isn’t great Baggio 94 Baresi 94 Shevchenko 05 Mbappé 20/21 Maradona 90 Look at that list. Many of the greatest footballers ever. Anyone can miss a pen. Rashford’s taken huge penalties for Utd - eg vs PSG Sancho will be expected to take penalties for Utd in big tournaments. Saka will play for a better team than Arsenal and will be involved in major shootouts |
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Fair enough you’re clearly not making it up but the assertion that if Henderson was in the bench he should have replaced Pickford is complete bollox.
But you do get my point that, if it's OK to bring on outfield players to try and score one penalty, it's more than acceptable to bring on a keeper to potentially save a couple? The pundits were going on about how intimidating the Italian keeper was because he's so physically large and imposing. At the other end of the scale in the Europa League final, you had De Gea in goal who, if anything, gave the Villarreal players a boost because they know he isn't great with penalties. Bringing on a keeper really good with penalties (not that we could tonight), would have been making a real statement and intimidating the opposition as well. Overall, Henderson could potentially be first choice for England come next summer as I think he has the fewest weaknesses of the English keepers but, if not, I hope he's on the bench... |
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You can pick the bones out of the game but at the end of the day penalties are a lottery and before Rashord missed I thought we had won it.
So near but yet so far.
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Pickford did his job and saved 2, the second being an incredible save under the circumstances. It was our penalty takers who weren't up to the task. The saves by the Italy keeper were routine, such were the poor shots he had to deal with.
Not sure Henderson would have done any better, but there is precedence for a side bringing on a goalie substitute just for penalties fairly recently I seem to remember. Can't think who it was though.
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Pickford did his job and saved 2, the second being an incredible save under the circumstances. It was our penalty takers who weren't up to the task. The saves by the Italy keeper were routine, such were the poor shots he had to deal with.
Not sure Henderson would have done any better, but there is precedence for a side bringing on a goalie substitute just for penalties fairly recently I seem to remember. Can't think who it was though.
Tim Krul vs Cillessen |
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The wait goes on and I'm beginning to think I will never see England win another tournament in my lifetime. We just don't seem to have that mental strength you need to prevail.
To be fair though, we did better than everyone expected to get to the final and with a pretty inexperienced squad and we also faced a good Italian squad tonight who are on a ludicrous winning streak. I don't think we played really well throughout the whole tournament other than in brief spells so there is plenty of room for improvement and the squad is young enough. These days, contenders for the World Cup are realistically the best European teams + Argentina and Brazil so we could certainly be in the running for the next world cup and then again for the Euros in 3 years time. Southgate is gradually improving as a manager (and it certainly helps when you have better players available!), but he is still very inexperienced in comparison to the likes of Mancini. I'm not despondent as I never really expected us to win, but I'm more hopeful for future success than I was a couple of weeks ago. |
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You can pick the bones out of the game but at the end of the day penalties are a lottery and before Rashord missed I thought we had won it.
So near but yet so far.
Penalties aren’t a lottery |
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Why a literal child was taking a penalty in a world cup final I don't know, neither of those subs did anything either. I guess at least Southgate will be able to comfort them as somebody who also choked on penalties in a major tournament and they'll probably get some sweet deal to be in an advert laughing about their failure.
Guess we wait a couple of years now to do it all again.
Was it the World Cup? My my, I was under the impression for four weeks that it was the Euros. By the way, kids often play without fear. |
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The England caps in Sports Direct in Grimsby were priced just short of £19 about three days ago.
What a rip off, probably worth no more than a quid now, shame.
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To be fair though, we did better than everyone expected to get to the final and with a pretty inexperienced squad and we also faced a good Italian squad tonight who are on a ludicrous winning streak. I don't think we played really well throughout the whole tournament other than in brief spells so there is plenty of room for improvement and the squad is young enough. These days, contenders for the World Cup are realistically the best European teams + Argentina and Brazil so we could certainly be in the running for the next world cup and then again for the Euros in 3 years time. Southgate is gradually improving as a manager (and it certainly helps when you have better players available!), but he is still very inexperienced in comparison to the likes of Mancini.
I'm not despondent as I never really expected us to win, but I'm more hopeful for future success than I was a couple of weeks ago.
Only Brazil can stop a European side winning WC2022 and even then that’s very unlikely cos they are shîte. Unless Qatar have bought the rights to win the tournament too. |
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Was it the World Cup? My my, I was under the impression for four weeks that it was the Euros.
By the way, kids often play without fear.
You see it all the time. Young lads break into the first team and really go at opponents. 2 or 3 years down the line, it's almost like they've been coached negativity. I do think though that this defeat will be used as fuel for future success. |
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Penalties aren’t a lottery
Fair enough, please enlighten me. |
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We can all offer our opinions but it’s all ifs and buts. This flipping hurts. Give it a couple of weeks though and we’ll begin to appreciate what an amazing summer we had. This team did us proud and lost on penalties. I’ve rediscovered my love for the national team again. You can’t ask anymore than that.
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Pathetic attempt to win a tournament as the home team in a final if we’re honest. If you were at Wembley tonight you contributed intercourse all too so congrats on having some money in order to buy a ticket.
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Fair enough, please enlighten me.
If you practice physically and mentally and follow through on that practice you stand a better chance of winning. You also need people handling the mental and physical pressure of that during the shootout. Take Alan Shearer. He always knew that if he connected properly it was unlikely the keeper stopped it. Likewise most German players. I don’t blame anyone or the management for the missed penalties. But we were never, ever going to win on penalties with that squad because of the lack of penalty takers in it. Italy always had that advantage. That is nobody’s fault, just life. |
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You see it all the time. Young lads break into the first team and really go at opponents. 2 or 3 years down the line, it's almost like they've been coached negativity.
I do think though that this defeat will be used as fuel for future success.
Probably because dribbling isn’t successful statistically to winning teams. Messi and possibly Neymar are the outliers. Then you have Doku, Saint-Maximin, Adama Traore, Boga, Ben Arfa and Januzaj. There’s a reason why many of them have or will have played for Newcastle or Sunderland by the end of their careers. Dribbling is high risk and low reward. These players might have great dribbling stats but there is little end product. They are fluffers. Doku is guaranteed to end up at one of the ‘North East giants’. |
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Both teams had their worst 45 minutes of the tournament in that game, Italy in the first and England in the second. In extra time I thought England edged it slightly but in reality it sort of just ran its course.
I don’t know who decided our penalties, Rashford and Saka would not have been on my list before they missed…did some bottle it forcing that decision?
Frustrating really as I do think we had/have what it takes to win a tournament but when we had our chance we didn’t really take it…hopefully we learn from that…
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I don’t know who decided our penalties, Rashford and Saka would not have been on my list before they missed…did some bottle it forcing that decision?
Rashford was United’s penalty taker until Bruno’s arrival. He still takes the occasional one now. He’s played over 250 professional matches and has nearly 50 caps. Other than Kane he is England’s banker in a shootout. Sterling probably would have wanted to take one but Southgate knew he would have missed because his record from the spot is terrible. Grealish is the same. |
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Only Brazil can stop a European side winning WC2022 and even then that’s very unlikely cos they are shîte. Unless Qatar have bought the rights to win the tournament too.
Brazil are tactically naive and have next to zero chance of winning the 2022 FIFA World Cup. It’s going to be European winner after European winner for a long time. The rest of the world are light years behind. |
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Well, Southgate very nearly convinced me that he was a better manager than I have previously given him credit for, however, given last nights tactical masterclass my doubts remain. I do not see the need for three centre backs playing against one striker whilst your midfield is being overrun ! I’m also sick of hearing about our wealth of talent “sitting on the bench”, they are not much good sat there ! For me it was the same old story, flatter to deceive and get found out when it really matters. As the commentators said, this may have been a once in a lifetime opportunity playing in a major tournament final at home, so why so negative ? Italy were so much better than us it was embarrassing at times. As for the penalties, what a bunch of bottlers ! Please don’t tell me penalties are a lottery before asking yourselves why Kane, Shearer etc ALWAYS scored ! All in all a missed opportunity caused by a negative tactical formation. The wait goes on, and on and on !
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You see it all the time. Young lads break into the first team and really go at opponents. 2 or 3 years down the line, it's almost like they've been coached negativity.
I do think though that this defeat will be used as fuel for future success.
There is truth in that. But the team sheet was the problem here, not the players. Italy knew too much and their manager was too canny to fall for the rope-a-dope trick. Italy took 20 minutes to work out they had little to fear, After that they did the pressing and really should have won comfortably in 90 mins. England had no threat with Kane dropping off and no-one else getting in the box enough. All the pace and trickery of the young lads was on the bench. At least one of them should have played from the start then we might have capitalised on the early goal instead of shrinking to 7- 8 at the back. \\ |
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Ultimately, if you set up not to lose, you shouldn't be too surprised when you don't win. No problems with the 3-4-3 played, but neither Shaw or Trippier are up and down the line wing-backs, decent full-backs though they undoubtedly are. Perhaps somebody a bit more like TAA or even James might have made a difference. A bit more attacking intent on the field. Expecting 3 attacking players to mount enough of a threat to a team like Italy is perhaps too much to hope for. If we end up playing 4-3-3 more often, we'll hopefully see Bellingham in one of the midfield roles providing he continues to do well in Germany. Rice and Phillips did OK this tournament but you can't say they exactly bossed the midfield and we were played through too easily at times. There's a difference between letting the opposition have possession and then shutting them down to sitting off without attempting to put any pressure on the ball which is what we did last night.
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Shocking in what way?
I don’t think he told our midfield three and defence to sit 10 yards deeper.
Really , so why did he allow them to |
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Fair enough, please enlighten me.
I agree they are far from a lottery. They are a test of skill and nerves. Fanny about like Rashford did and you are likely to miss. Hit it like maguire and Kane did then no keeper in the world can stop it . Definitely not a lottery |
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After very little sleep a more balanced view of the game than what I would have said last night.
We started really strong and with the boost of an early goal. I expected us to kick on and score again.
For what ever reason we let Italy get a foothold in the game and it was only a matter of time before they scored..
We never looked like scoring again mainly because kane never touched the ball in Italy's penalty box.
Then penalties you would never had thought we had practiced them over and over again.
The young lads that missed did not deserve the abuse they got from some they just need to be told kick the bloody thing hard then if the keeper saves fair enough.
We will come again and the team as a whole would have learnt a lot from this disappointment and will have a good chance next year of winning the world cup.
This team is very young and can only get better.
Now back to Grimsby and hopefully some success that we have been waiting for.
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Brazil are tactically naive and have next to zero chance of winning the 2022 FIFA World Cup.
It’s going to be European winner after European winner for a long time. The rest of the world are light years behind.
Where Europe could come unstuck in Qatar is dealing with the heat. The African and South American nations will be better equipped to deal with the heat. I do agree that Europe is offering the better teams right now though. |
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As far as I am concerned we drew 1-1.
Why do we keep deciding a month-long major tournament on penalties?
Why not replay the match on Tuesday?
If it is still another draw after extra time either use a golden goal or share the trophy.
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As far as I am concerned we drew 1-1.
Why do we keep deciding a month-long major tournament on penalties?
Why not replay the match on Tuesday?
If it is still another draw after extra time either use a golden goal or share the trophy.
Would you say that if we’d won? Best team won on the night simple as |
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Would you say that if we’d won?
Best team won on the night simple as
It was a draw. What is the problem with having a replay? Had we drawn the '66 final there would have been a replay, or I assume there would have been. |
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It was a draw.
What is the problem with having a replay? Had we drawn the '66 final there would have been a replay, or I assume there would have been.
What if the replay is drawn?! You have to end it in some way. The Italians have lost plenty of shootouts over the years. Is it cruel? Possibly. But I’d rather it was done so the players can get back to their families and have a rest before the treadmill resumes again in a few weeks. |
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It was a draw.
What is the problem with having a replay? Had we drawn the '66 final there would have been a replay, or I assume there would have been.
Weren't they still deciding matches on coin tosses then? |
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Weren't they still deciding matches on coin tosses then?
No, it would have been a replay on the Tuesday. |
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I agree they are far from a lottery. They are a test of skill and nerves. Fanny about like Rashford did and you are likely to miss. Hit it like maguire and Kane did then no keeper in the world can stop it . Definitely not a lottery
I must admit that I am not a fan of stuttering and unusual run ups but that’s how Rashford takes them. He will have practiced that over and over again. The injury time penalty time winner against PSG in the Champs League was taken exactly the same way, under great pressure. The likes of Jonny Wilkinson and Owen Farrell ‘fänny’ around before a kick because it is part of their standard routine. Rashford was just doing the same and missed by inches. |
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A final shouldn't be decided on penalties but given the cost for fans and everything else that goes into hosting a game like that, you can't replay it either.
In a final only, it should be golden goal for as long as it takes.
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What if the replay is drawn?!
You have to end it in some way. The Italians have lost plenty of shootouts over the years.
Is it cruel? Possibly. But I’d rather it was done so the players can get back to their families and have a rest before the treadmill resumes again in a few weeks.
As I said, if it cannot be decided after another stalemate then maybe a golden goal or share the trophy. A replay could be in 3or 4 days time so it would not affect next season. To decide the final of a major tournament on penalties seems bizarre. It is another football decision that once made never seems to be re-visited. |
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As I said, if it cannot be decided after another stalemate then maybe a golden goal or share the trophy.
A replay could be in 3or 4 days time so it would not affect next season.
To decide the final of a major tournament on penalties seems bizarre. It is another football decision that once made never seems to be re-visited.
Share the trophy?! Now that’s snowflaking of the highest order. Penalty taking is a skill. It’s the circus and finger pointing afterwards that causes the problem. |
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Tim Krul vs Cillessen
And Steve Mildenhall, more famously. |
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No, it would have been a replay on the Tuesday.
So it would've been. Every day's a school day eh? "On 5 June 1968, a coin toss sent hosts Italy into the European Championship final over the Soviet Union. Italy went on to win the final in a replay. Only four teams — Italy, the Soviet Union, England, and Yugoslavia — participated in the tournament. The two semifinal matches were played on the same day, with Italy hosting the USSR in Naples, while England met Yugoslavia in Florence. In the latter, Yugoslavia edged to a 1–0 victory with an 87th-minute goal from Red Star Belgrade winger Dragan Džajić. The other semifinal was even closer, as Italy and the USSR struggled to a scoreless draw. Under the rules in place at the time, the victor was determined not by a replay, extra time or a penalty shootout, but by a coin toss, which Italy duly won. They advanced to the final, where they played Yugoslavia to a 1–1 draw. For a final draw, the tournament rules required a replay, which Italy also won, 2–0." |
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What if the replay is drawn?!
You have to end it in some way. The Italians have lost plenty of shootouts over the years.
Is it cruel? Possibly. But I’d rather it was done so the players can get back to their families and have a rest before the treadmill resumes again in a few weeks.
Records will show Italy as the winners of a football tournament, but they weren't. The final FOOTBALL game was a draw. Golden goal is a FOOTBALL solution, penalty shootouts are not FOOTBALL as the other 20 players are not involved; only a goalkeeper and striker of the ball. Players, most of whom, are on £100K per week can see their families any time of the year. Just give only £50K per week and my wife would be happy if I went to work for 28 days none stop. Today's technology means that they do speak and see each other, although not in person. Italy scored a scrappy goal and good luck to them, but they didn't overwhelm us. Southgate got us to the final so he must have done an awful lot of things right for us to be there in the final. The England team are a long way down the road since Southgate became manager, and their has been no better since Sir Alf 55 years ago. As for me yesterday is now history and tomorrow is Town being promoted. UTM |
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I would have taken the Quarter finals before the start. We have a good team, but so did other countries.
There are contradictions. We had one days less rest and extra-time against Denmark. We started well, too well, scoring early and forcing them to re-evaluate,adapt and improve. They certainly did. We had a few half chances and needed a second goal.
The team had energy. Maybe this was adrenaline and excitement with the occasion and atmosphere. As Italy improved we looked tired. The change in energy levels was worrying.
Southgate is by nature a cautious man. This is reflected in his teams. We had no goal threat after 20 mins. Kane never touching the ball in the penalty area in 120 minutes, According to the BBC. Sterling was outstanding against Denmark. He had few runs against the Italian defence.
Southgate was reluctant to make changes. Mancini the opposite. We had to hang on for HT.
We have good young players. However, they are mainly attacking players and fullbacks. Chilwell and James won the CL and TAA did not start. We need creative midfielders.
Mount tired, Foden off form, Rashford off form most of the season and needing an operation. Why was Rashford taken to the Euros if not in form? Southgate says that he picks on form.
The run to the CL final seemed to ultimately tire some of our young players. In different ways or affecting form. Helpful that Italian teams did not get so far. Again, there are exceptions.
Southgate said that he picked the penalty takers. Putting 2 on last minute is a poor decision. Even Lewis Hamilton has a warm-up lap.to get prepared . A teenager taking a penalty is also a lot of pressure. It was reported that we have conducted extensive research on pens. Maybe over-thinking. Maguire took the best pen. Hard into the corner. Defenders have done well here in this tournament taking pens.
Span were better than Italy but still lost. Italy were better than us from 30 mins. We need to improve again for the World Cup. We have 18 months.
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I would have taken the Quarter finals before the start. We have a good team, but so did other countries.
There are contradictions. We had one days less rest and extra-time against Denmark. We started well, too well, scoring early and forcing them to re-evaluate,adapt and improve. They certainly did. We had a few half chances and needed a second goal.
The team had energy. Maybe this was adrenaline and excitement with the occasion and atmosphere. As Italy improved we looked tired. The change in energy levels was worrying.
Southgate is by nature a cautious man. This is reflected in his teams. We had no goal threat after 20 mins. Kane never touching the ball in the penalty area in 120 minutes, According to the BBC. Sterling was outstanding against Denmark. He had few runs against the Italian defence.
Southgate was reluctant to make changes. Mancini the opposite. We had to hang on for HT.
We have good young players. However, they are mainly attacking players and fullbacks. Chilwell and James won the CL and TAA did not start. We need creative midfielders.
Mount tired, Foden off form, Rashford off form most of the season and needing an operation. Why was Rashford taken to the Euros if not in form? Southgate says that he picks on form.
The run to the CL final seemed to ultimately tire some of our young players. In different ways or affecting form. Helpful that Italian teams did not get so far. Again, there are exceptions.
Southgate said that he picked the penalty takers. Putting 2 on last minute is a poor decision. Even Lewis Hamilton has a warm-up lap.to get prepared . A teenager taking a penalty is also a lot of pressure. It was reported that we have conducted extensive research on pens. Maybe over-thinking. Maguire took the best pen. Hard into the corner. Defenders have done well here in this tournament taking pens.
Span were better than Italy but still lost. Italy were better than us from 30 mins. We need to improve again for the World Cup. We have 18 months.
Spot on  Ultimately, one man who has won titles and trophies beat a man who managed Middlesbrough. Not to mention having coaches alongside him who were sacked by those other footballing goliaths Charlton & Luton Town. |
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It was a big mistake taking rashford instead of Ings
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I don't want to be seen as clutching at straws or being a sore loser as the best team won on the night but does anyone else believe the shirts pull on saka and the tackle on grealish should have been seen as dangerous play? The saka incident shows that italy would have struggled defensively against us if we would have actually used our pace against them rather than having all 11 players in our own 3rd of the pitch for 80% of the match, ultimately it was a quiet night for their two ageing centre backs
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In earlier games, England were praised for 'game management' - playing in bursts and then letting the opposition have more of the ball and taking a bit of a breather. This worked in some games but last night it allowed Italy into the game and from there they grew in confidence. England were awesome for the first 30 minutes or so.
During extra time, England looked the most likely winner to me and a fairer way to settle the game would be to keep playing until one side scored. It might come from a tired error, but that is exactly the same lottery as penalties.
I am a big fan of Southgate but bringing on subs to take penalties was a fatal error.
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In earlier games, England were praised for 'game management' - playing in bursts and then letting the opposition have more of the ball and taking a bit of a breather. This worked in some games but last night it allowed Italy into the game and from there they grew in confidence. England were awesome for the first 30 minutes or so.
During extra time, England looked the most likely winner to me and a fairer way to settle the game would be to keep playing until one side scored. It might come from a tired error, but that is exactly the same lottery as penalties.
I am a big fan of Southgate but bringing on subs to take penalties was a fatal error.
Penalties are not a lottery. Just because historically we have a poor record doesn’t mean we need to change the rules. Even tennis ditched the ‘no tiebreak in final set’ rule to avoid another Isner vs Mahut debacle. Who would you have had take a penalty? |
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I thought the referee was a bit too lenient on the Italians for some of the fouling. At one point, Veratti committed 3 fouls in just a couple of minutes, one of them quite cynical. Should certainly have been a booking but he didn't even get a telling-off. Their right-back deliberately pulled back one of our players and got away with nothing more than a free-kick as well.
Jorginho should have been off for the challenge on Grealish given what we've seen at other points in the tournament, but I don't think the Saka incident was more than a yellow. The foul on Grealish really worked well for them as we were putting them under a bit of pressure at the point and barely touched the ball after that.
One thing I wasn't sure of was whether the flick-on for their goal came off an arm or not? They only showed one replay which seemed to indicate it might have done, but VAR obviously weren't interested and the TV people didn't show it again.
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I don't want to be seen as clutching at straws or being a sore loser as the best team won on the night but does anyone else believe the shirts pull on saka and the tackle on grealish should have been seen as dangerous play? The saka incident shows that italy would have struggled defensively against us if we would have actually used our pace against them rather than having all 11 players in our own 3rd of the pitch for 80% of the match, ultimately it was a quiet night for their two ageing centre backs
The Saka/Chiellini incident was quite rightly just a yellow. The Grealish/Jorginho one, Italy were fortunate. Jorginho sped into the challenge with his studs up. It wouldn’t have been a free kick 20/30 years ago but is usually a red now. Thought the officials were pretty good personally. There were some theatrics from Kane and Sterling last night that we seem to airbrush from history. |
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I don't want to be seen as clutching at straws or being a sore loser as the best team won on the night but does anyone else believe the shirts pull on saka and the tackle on grealish should have been seen as dangerous play? The saka incident shows that italy would have struggled defensively against us if we would have actually used our pace against them rather than having all 11 players in our own 3rd of the pitch for 80% of the match, ultimately it was a quiet night for their two ageing centre backs
Agree on the Grealish tackle. Borderline sending off. Given the way the yellows were distributed around the Italian team, the cynic in me says that they were all taking one for the team. On tactics, the counter argument to getting at them is it leaves you vulnerable and Italy can tear you apart, as they nearly did on a couple of occasions. |
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For me the challenge on Grealish was a clear yellow card and so was The ‘challenge’ on Saka. I cannot in any good faith accept either were reds.
England were too passive and negative and it shows we learnt nothing from the Croatia semi final in Russia. After the initial 20/25 mins we didn’t look a threat. Our subs should have been made sooner.
If we wanted to avoid penalties we should have shown more intent to win the game in normal and extra time. We didn’t and we came out on the wrong end of the result. No problem with that.
We got further than I expected but Southgate is naturally cautious and defensive. With the abundance of attacking talent that we have id like to see a more front foot and positive approach from this point on. Although admittedly that is in hope more than expectation.
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Really enjoyed England's performance in this tournament, such a change from only a few years ago, the team has done us proud. Very fine margins and then everyone is an expert in hindsight. Talking about why we didn't go on the attack all the time or have a manager that throws caution to the wind - a but like keegan,and that ended well didn't it.
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The foul on Saka was exactly the sort of professional yellow card I expect to see from Shaun Pearson in a few weeks time.
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Penalties are not a lottery. Just because historically we have a poor record doesn’t mean we need to change the rules.
Even tennis ditched the ‘no tiebreak in final set’ rule to avoid another Isner vs Mahut debacle.
Who would you have had take a penalty?
I don't know who I would have chosen because I wasn't there when they practised them in training but I just don't think you can be mentally prepared if you have only been on the pitch 2 minutes. |
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I don't know who I would have chosen because I wasn't there when they practised them in training but I just don't think you can be mentally prepared if you have only been on the pitch 2 minutes.
To be fair to Southgate, he was trying to get Rashford and Sancho on for a few minutes. We were in danger of the final whistle going before they came on, until the ball eventually went out. It was slightly risky anyway because Rashford was virtually playing RB when he came on. Sterling and Grealish are not natural penalty takers. There is no shame in that. Messi isn't. The only other choices were Phillips or the defenders (or Pickford). |
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I think they've moved on from 'hands up if you' ll take one'. I hope so anyway. I'm sure it had been practiced and planned a lot but obviously it didn't work. I'm not sure I follow that Rashford or Sancho needed to be up to speed with the game to take a penno either they just didn't quite exceute their plans under extreme pressure. I just hope it's another step forward and more learning and experience rather than the start of another generation being burdened by the expectation of failure. Maybe I'm a fatalist after forty years watching England but I saw both teams in their huddles before the shootout and couldn't see us winning.
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If Rashford's penalty had been 6 inches to the right we'd have been lauding it as the greatest penalty ever taken by an Englishman. But it wasn't.
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If Rashford's penalty had been 6 inches to the right we'd have been lauding it as the greatest penalty ever taken by an Englishman. But it wasn't.
Nature of sport at the top level isn't it? Tiniest margins and history gets written by the winners. |
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If Rashford's penalty had been 6 inches to the right we'd have been lauding it as the greatest penalty ever taken by an Englishman. But it wasn't.
Debatable. Great penalty for sure if it was a couple of inches further right but not the greatest ever. That one from Maguire was a thing of beauty. |
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| BobbyCummingsTackle |
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The foul on Saka was exactly the sort of professional yellow card I expect to see from Shaun Pearson in a few weeks time.
He'd need to be careful....in a league game he might be in danger of being prosecuted for ABH! |
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We just played our real first challenging game in the final, Italy were one of the standout teams in earlier games with their pressing and ball retention. They like Spain, just really didnt have a clinical striker but relied on midfielders to chip in with goals....much like we did really.
To get to the final before playing a team that was full of technically better individuals was the luck of the draw but our luck ran out.
Overall whilst dominating early games we played pretty conservatively throughout and never really blew any teams anyway, dominated but never looked like scoring plenty in all honesty.
If you struggle to score against the minnows of Europe then playing the nation renowned for the art of defending then chances are going to be minimal, but then starting with a 5 and two holding then attacks are going to be even less.
Good effort, nice try but just coming up short on tactical nouse and talent.
Strange how at this tournament the traditional bigger European forces all struggled to get their strikers firing, ourselves included.
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I thought England did very well until the final which is a shame.
We battered them for 20 minutes but then lost control, not sure how but I had the impression we surrendered possession and that gave the Italians the confidence to claw back.
As for penalties, never been a fan and would prefer golden goal. Start extra time 9 a side an take two more off after 10 minutes. Down to 5 a side from 20 minutes until somebody scores
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| Manchester Mariner |
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As for penalties, never been a fan and would prefer golden goal. Start extra time 9 a side an take two more off after 10 minutes. Down to 5 a side from 20 minutes until somebody scores
Like this a lot, very jumpers for goalposts and rush goalie. It could never happen though. |
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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The thing about penalties is that, when you look back over the last 40 years, WC and Euro shootouts have not stopped the best sides winning the trophies.
So it can't be that much of a lottery. It hasn't stopped the generational talents of France, Germany, Italy, Portugal and Spain from winning.
The shock winners, such as Greece in 2004, didn't even face a shootout in any of their matches. Denmark only had penalties in their semi against the Dutch in 1992, despite it being a very defensive tournament.
The pre-back pass rule problem of teams solely playing for penalties (e.g. Crvena Zvezda in '91 and Steaua in '86) has mostly disappeared.
It just seems that we are the only country (other than perhaps the Dutch) that moans about penalties because of our poor record. The Italians just get on with it despite 1994, 1998, 2008 and 2016.
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| Gaffer58 |
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I look at Pickford and keep screaming a him to give the easy ball to a defender, but no 90% of the time he’s waving his arms about and attempting to kick the ball out off the other end, nearly every time giving up possession.No wonder Kane was knackered chasing after it against 2 big physical centre halves.
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| Heswall Mariner |
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We lost to the better team.
For 30 minutes we dominated following that early goal.
Thereafter they pushed us back & frankly outplayed us.
Those around me constantly referred to their dirty tactics.
Nah - Italy have always been defensively cynical & clever.
They got 5 yellow cards to our 1 - we still lost.
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| KingstonMariner |
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I look at Pickford and keep screaming a him to give the easy ball to a defender, but no 90% of the time he’s waving his arms about and attempting to kick the ball out off the other end, nearly every time giving up possession.No wonder Kane was knackered chasing after it against 2 big physical centre halves.
The outfield players were often too spread out to make playing it out from the back viable a lot of the time. We still don’t seem to have the habit that the rest of Europe and South America has. |
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| TownSNAFU5 |
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UEFA team of Euro 2020: England with the most outfield players selected (3) Maguire, Shaw and Sterling. Italy with Donnarumma, Chiellini and Chiesa. Denmark had Maehle and Dolberg. (Eriksen could have been in for other reason. Denmark could have had their other player beginning with D instead of Dolberg. The one who scored that great freekick against us). Pogba and Xhaka in midlfield. Pogba made some exquisite passes and scored a great goal. But he was instrumental in a poor first half and having a bad attitude when they went out. Ronaldo selected. No Spanish, Belgium or Germans selected. Surprised Pedri (even at 1  not selected in midfield or maybe Lukaku in front 3. Pedri was however, named as young player of Euro 2020. |
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| supertown |
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If Rashford's penalty had been 6 inches to the right we'd have been lauding it as the greatest penalty ever taken by an Englishman. But it wasn't.
It was excrement, he missed the goal. Inexcusable at that level for a forward |
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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It was excrement, he missed the goal. Inexcusable at that level for a forward
Maradona. Baggio. Van Basten. Some of the very, very best have missed key penalties in tournament shootouts. What is inexcusable is morons bleating on about him missing. |
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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UEFA team of Euro 2020: England with the most outfield players selected (3) Maguire, Shaw and Sterling. Italy with Donnarumma, Chiellini and Chiesa. Denmark had Maehle and Dolberg. (Eriksen could have been in for other reason. Denmark could have had their other player beginning with D instead of Dolberg. The one who scored that great freekick against us). Pogba and Xhaka in midlfield. Pogba made some exquisite passes and scored a great goal. But he was instrumental in a poor first half and having a bad attitude when they went out. Ronaldo selected. No Spanish, Belgium or Germans selected. Surprised Pedri (even at 1 not selected in midfield or maybe Lukaku in front 3. Pedri was however, named as young player of Euro 2020.
That’s not the UEFA team is it? The official UEFA selection sensibly has 5 Italian players including Jorginho and Spinazzola. Plus Pedri. |
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| supertown |
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Maradona. Baggio. Van Basten.
Some of the very, very best have missed key penalties in tournament shootouts.
What is inexcusable is morons bleating on about him missing.
Missed or saved ? |
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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Missed or saved ?
Baggio missed the target, as did Baresi. Van Basten’s was saved and Maradona’s was like a pass back. But to say it’s inexcusable to hit the post and miss by 3 inches with a high pressure penalty is ridiculous. Every footballer misses penalties. |
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| WOZOFGRIMSBY |
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Baggio missed the target, as did Baresi.
Van Basten’s was saved and Maradona’s was like a pass back.
But to say it’s inexcusable to hit the post and miss by 3 inches with a high pressure penalty is ridiculous.
Every footballer misses penalties.
Diana Ross missed too |
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| promotion plaice |
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| KingstonMariner |
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How fickung embarrassing
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| Abdul19 |
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| Les Brechin |
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How sad are some people. We lost the final to the better team on the night, just bloody accept it! |
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| wuffing |
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Well in that case I reckon Denmark have a claim for the semi as Smeichel may have held onto Kane's penalty without the laser shine!
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'I walked in the dressing room. The window was open and I thought that a sea fret had got in. Then I saw smoke billowing from a pipe in the corner of the room...it was my centre-forward. He looked seven stone wet through. He went on to score thirty-odd goals that season.' Lawrie McMenemy on encountering the legend that was Matt Tees.
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| Manchester Mariner |
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Whilst not wanting to come across as an elitist football fan it is a relief when major tournaments end and the fairweather bandwagon jumpers with no understanding of the game or rules fall away once again. |
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| LH |
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Whilst not wanting to come across as an elitist football fan it is a relief when major tournaments end and the fairweather bandwagon jumpers with no understanding of the game or rules fall away once again.
This. Sick of explaining why the Chiellini ‘challenge’ isn’t a red card. |
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| Tommy |
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This. Sick of explaining why the Chiellini ‘challenge’ isn’t a red card.
Yep. And no-one seems to have picked up on the fact that Saka only kept it in play and knocked it forward with a swing of his arm, so had he not been fouled it'd have been the most blatant handball anyway. Commentators chose not to mention this in commentary either I don't think. |
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| Gaffer58 |
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Talking of commentators, I notice nowadays nobody actually gets fouled anymore, the player “ wins” a free kick, they say it as if the player has been really clever, personally I look upon it as another form of cheating.
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| Gaffer58 |
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Talking of commentators, I notice nowadays nobody actually gets fouled anymore, the player “ wins” a free kick, they say it as if the player has been really clever, personally I look upon it as another form of cheating.
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| ginnywings |
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'KIn 'ell.
Nobody can accept anything nowadays. It's not fair that we lost, so we want another chance to be beaten by Italy.
If we'd played a better game, Chiellini wouldn't have been playing that far up the left wing anyway. It's the only time in 120 mins he looked at all troubled by someone half his age.
They were better than us, they won, end of.
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| lew chaterleys lover |
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I won't be signing any petition but I think some posters are being a bit harsh on England.
If my memory serves me right, the score after extra time was 1-1.
Italy was that good they could not beat us in 120 minutes, and Pickford did not have too many saves to make.
We should have finished them off in the first half an hour when we were well on top.
Had it not been for 3 of the worst penalties you would ever see we would not be even having this conversation. We had the upper hand in the shoot out till Rashford stepped up.
Italy played the better football overall but it could have gone either way.
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| Maringer |
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Italy was that good they could not beat us in 120 minutes, and Pickford did not have too many saves to make.
He had a lot more saves to make than Donnarumma. We only managed 2 shots on target in 120 minutes (plus stoppage time). They had 3 times as many shots on target, 3 times as many shots altogether and double the possession. We had a good 20 minutes to start off with and a decent 5 minute spell during extra-time. It is a stretch to think we were really that close to beating them and were being pinned back deeper and deeper by the time the goal came. We might have nicked it with a little more luck, but luck it would have been. |
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| lew chaterleys lover |
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He had a lot more saves to make than Donnarumma. We only managed 2 shots on target in 120 minutes (plus stoppage time). They had 3 times as many shots on target, 3 times as many shots altogether and double the possession. We had a good 20 minutes to start off with and a decent 5 minute spell during extra-time. It is a stretch to think we were really that close to beating them and were being pinned back deeper and deeper by the time the goal came. We might have nicked it with a little more luck, but luck it would have been.
The obvious point is that you don't necessarily win matches by having the better of the play in a one-off game. It is an equally important part of the game to be able to defend well,to keep us shape, to keep the opposition out and the only thing that matters is the final score, which of course in this case was 1-1. Nobody is denying Italy are a great side with great players, a bit further on than England in their rebuilding, but we ran them very close and had the players tucked away their penalties we would be European champions which has a nice ring to it. We have been on the receiving end quite a few times when we have been the better team but lost the penalty shootout so it would not have bothered me one jot to sneak it on penalties. |
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| KingstonMariner |
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Tend to agree with you Lew. Yes Italy were clearly the better side, with better form going into the tournament and looking more accomplished throughout the tournament and deserved to win. But the rules are if it’s a draw after ET you go to penalties and the team that scored the most penalties is the winner. Not if it’s a draw after ET it goes to the team who had the most shots on target or the most possession. No one English would have minded us winning on penalties.
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| mimma |
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If it was Maguire that had fouled an Italian, we would have called it "taking one for the team"
As for the foul on Grealish, anyone remember the Rooney "foul" on Rinaldo?
At the end of the day, they were better than us, but, we took the best team in world football to penalties. To me, they did not beat us, in normal, or extra time, the game itself was a draw.
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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Nobody is denying Italy are a great side with great players, a bit further on than England in their rebuilding...
It illustrates the brilliant job that Mancini has done. Didn’t seven of England’s starters against Italy start the semi final against Croatia 3 years ago? Italy didn’t even qualify for that World Cup. It will be fascinating how Mancini approaches the next 18 months in the run up to Qatar. He won’t be short of offers from the European elite. Mancini has spoken about making up for his lack of success as a player for the Azzurri but that’s another major rebuild he has to handle now. Chiellini won’t be there in Qatar. Bonucci will be 35. Jorginho 31. Verratti’s injury problems are only going to worsen. Spinazzola will be almost 30 and may not recover fully from serious injury. They’ll need two new forwards from somewhere too as Immobile and Insigne were always short term fixes. As for England: Our ongoing rebuild will be mainly tactical and mental. The Sterlng situation could be interesting as he will either be warming the bench at City or at one of the North London clubs. Likewise, Kane will either be refreshed from Pep’s rotation or run into the ground at Spurs. |
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| KingstonMariner |
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I doubt Italy are worried about not having enough talent to come through
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| Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same. |
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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I doubt Italy are worried about not having enough talent to come through
At CB, Bastoni and particularly Romero are a little raw and Acerbi isn’t the answer as he’s 33 himself. Daniel Maldini is highly rated but is an attacking midfielder, unlike his Dad and late Grandad. |
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