Legal Question.!

i am no legal expert but can you be thrown out the ground for booing taking the knee.
At Norwich last night a fan was ejected for booing the blm protest, under freedom of laws you are allowed to express an opinion section 10  believe.
Booing is not racist it won’t be in the club rules as being banned in the ground.
Legally i think any club is on thin ice with this one.

If you are on private property the owner of that property can remove you for any reason it deems fit enough to do so.

Quoted from Yoda

i am no legal expert but can you be thrown out the ground for booing taking the knee.
At Norwich last night a fan was ejected for booing the blm protest, under freedom of laws you are allowed to express an opinion section 10  believe.
Booing is not racist it won’t be in the club rules as being banned in the ground.
Legally i think any club is on thin ice with this one.

Thin ice indeed. This is the logical conclusion of players doing something as daft as taking the knee. Your own supporters at risk of being thrown out of the stadium because they don't believe in it. It is getting more and more like big brother - what you are and are not allowed to do.

I suppose more and more fans won't bother going back if players insist on taking the knee as time goes on.  

Article 10 of the Human Rights   grants freedom of expression. This is incorporated into the Human Rights Act.All legislation in this country has to be Human Rights Act Compliant.
Booing could constitute behaviour likely to cause a breach of he peace.However although I am not up-to-date I  am not aware of existing case law which would set a precedent to establish an authority .

Can you imagine people booing the minutes silence for remembrance Sunday?

If you wanted to protest taking of the knee......couldn't you just turn away from the pitch while it is happening .......surely you can't be thrown out for turning away

I don’t agree with singing a song in honour of an unelected head of state but I don’t boo it...

Some of these fucktards need to get a grip.

I’d imagine, with it being private property then the club can eject someone for contravening their rules and regulations...

Quoted from aldi_01

I don’t agree with singing a song in honour of an unelected head of state but I don’t boo it...

Some of these fucktards need to get a grip.

I’d imagine, with it being private property then the club can eject someone for contravening their rules and regulations...

So you get ejected for booing “taking the knee”, but not for anything else such as ref decisions, or can you be ejected for that also?

is there a rule against booing.!!

Isn't part of going back into stadiums that you arent supposed to shout, sing, chant etc ?  I suppose they could claim "booing" was in breach of that.

Quoted from Yoda

is there a rule against booing.!!

As previously stated,refer to the the ground regulations.

https://www.grimsby-townfc.co.uk/club/ground-regulations/

This question was answered with the first reply.

Bored to tears discussing this now....how many threads based around the same subject do we need to have...enough us enough....can we get back to matters around our club and team please.  

it mentions foul and abusive language but not booing.

Quoted from bax

If you are on private property the owner of that property can remove you for any reason it deems fit enough to do so.

Exactly so. It is private so it is down to the owners, just as places like theatres remove people who refuse to turn off their mobiles.

lol why is everyone so desperate to make themselves into a victim over this?

Please, I beg you, no more tears.

I have always considered that there is an Article 10 defence when managers get fined for criticizing referees.Jose I am available.

Quoted from Brazilnut

If you wanted to protest taking of the knee......couldn't you just turn away from the pitch while it is happening .......surely you can't be thrown out for turning away

That is exactly what I shall be doing when we get back into BP

Take care not to photo or film anything. Rules forbid taking anything into the ground which is 'capable' of transmitting images from the ground. As previously discussed in other threads re betting etc.

Before SkaFace exhausts his lexicon of scatalogical and other bodily fluid metaphors, has anyone got any ideas how clubs can navigate a way through this impasse which does not entail any dilution of existing Kick it out initiatives, the sensitivities of players and the feelings of fans?

Seems like all responsible bodies are sat on their hands hoping someone else will find a way out.

It is simlar in some ways to the NHS clapping that was started in the first lock down , it came , built momentum , rallied support for the NHS but then it got stale , the NHS recognised that and stopped it.

At some point the players will have to realise it is actually going to be detrimental to any cause they are trying to support and stop it for themselves or come to another course of action to raise awareness / persuade the powers that be that something needs to change.

I couldn't be arsed to read all those regulations but if you can be ejected for foul and abusive language I'm surpised IH hasn't been given a three year ban.

Does booing come under the category of " abusive"?

They will struggle to eject the numbers who will boo when crowds return fully  if they are still doing it.

Freedom of speech/expression only protects you from the government. This is why we don't throw people in prison for disagreeing with the government or calling them all twits. Private companies have the right to deny service to anyone they want. You could try to appeal it without a leg to stand on but wouldn't waste your time. The only time throwing somebody out or refusing service tends to become a legal dispute is on grounds of discrimination.

It does not count as discrimination if they don't want you expressing your angry political views at a football match.

Where will this end the clubs cannot stop it now or it looks like they are bowing to the boo boys.
Fans are annoyed because they cannot voice disapproval to the blm movement without risk of being banned.
Players talking about walking off the pitch ( Try Deeney) it’s going to end in tears the FA should never of started this nonsense.

Quoted from Norseman

They will struggle to eject the numbers who will boo when crowds return fully  if they are still doing it.

Would you boo this gesture? If so, can you explain your rationale?

Quoted from Yoda

i am no legal expert but can you be thrown out the ground for booing taking the knee

Why would you boo taking the knee when a majority of fans in a poll on the fishy last week supported it..?

Quoted from smokey111

Would you boo this gesture? If so, can you explain your rationale?

Yes defintely. I would boo it as its a gesture started in the states in support of a political, racist, marxist movement which i am happy to stand against.
End racism, kick it out, standing linking arms, banners, badges happy with all of them as i agree with the message not the current methods of highlighting it. So yes i will be booing

Quoted from ex-merseymariner

Why would you boo taking the knee when a majority of fans in a poll on the fishy last week supported it..?

Almost 50% never. But this is not an election where the majority wins. Even in an election the minority still have a right to voice their disapproval against things they disagree with.

It's not illegal, but it is breach of contract. The football club has entered in to a contract to let you watch a football match, but you have also contractually agreed to follow certain guidelines on behaviour. Unless those include booing then they are in breach of contract. They can't claim its racist as you are booing a political gesture.

Edit: This isn't the same going into Tesco where they can refuse you entry or to serve you for any reason they see fit as long as it isn't on the grounds of race, religion or gender. The club can refuse to sell you a ticket, they can refuse you entry to the club shop. However, as soon as they have sold you the ticket you and the club have a contract. If they fail to uphold their side by refusing you entry to the ground on a match day, or ejecting you from the ground for something that is not listed in the terms and conditions, then they are in breach of contract

The adult baby takeover is back on.

Nice to see the majority of fans on here supporting the gesture in the recent poll, despite the loud, droning, repetitive complaints of a few. Turns out empty cans rattle the loudest.

Quoted from ex-merseymariner

Why would you boo taking the knee when a majority of fans in a poll on the fishy last week supported it..?

A bit like why would you protest Brexit when a majority of voters in the country supported it. Similar majority here, and it didn't stop the lefties trying every trick to overturn it. Which is somewhat ironic given that they're the ones that claim to fight for democracy and equal rights.

Quoted from ska face

The adult baby takeover is back on.

Nice to see the majority of fans on here supporting the gesture in the recent poll, despite the loud, droning, repetitive complaints of a few. Turns out empty cans rattle the loudest.

48% empty cans

That’s correct, well done. The racist Marxists have won this one, it would appear.

Quoted from Norseman

Note the baby comment. Some people cannot debate without being personal. But 48% empty cans is not a small number and as 1 poster said thats the same ratio as brexit and it hasnt stopped remainers voicing their opinion for 4 years  

Quoted from ska face

That’s correct, well done. The racist Marxists have won this one, it would appear.

Really whats changed except more racial disharmony. What have tgey achieved except to get a few virtue signallin celebrities and footballers supporting BLM. The rest of us prefer to be anti racist by the way we live our lives always. Not just when its popular

Quoted from Norseman

Really whats changed except more racial disharmony. What have tgey achieved except to get a few virtue signallin celebrities and footballers supporting BLM. The rest of us prefer to be anti racist by the way we live our lives always. Not just when its popular

So if you’re anti racist you’ll sit quietly through a peaceful anti-racism protest and moan about it away from the ground then? The team are making this season embarassing enough without a load of angry, middle-aged+ men turning up and booing something because it’s got an imaginary poltical party attached to it.

Quoted from ex-merseymariner

Why would you boo taking the knee when a majority of fans in a poll on the fishy last week supported it..?

Why would he or should he do what a few fans on an internet forum say?

Quoted from Ipswin

Why would he or should he do what a few fans on an internet forum say?

I was just pointing out the result of the poll, which incidentally was posted to prove a certain poster right in his assertion that the majority were against taking the knee.    The result suggests otherwise, but its a close run thing.  Oh well.      

Back to the legal question, one for the stewards I suppose, but as has been already said, answered in the first response!

Quoted from pen penfras

A bit like why would you protest Brexit when a majority of voters in the country supported it. Similar majority here, and it didn't stop the lefties trying every trick to overturn it. Which is somewhat ironic given that they're the ones that claim to fight for democracy and equal rights.

And didn't stop the fat, drunken, white, middle aged righties chucking eggs at women and kids on the seafront.

Those opposed to Black Lives Matter, have every right to oppose it, but it seems they have to do it in a way that lets everyone know how outraged the are, by booing or some other overt method.

I'm opposed to the National Anthem but I wouldn't boo it, because I respect those that honour it. How hard is it to sit on your hands for 10 seconds?

Quoted from Norseman

Really whats changed except more racial disharmony. What have tgey achieved except to get a few virtue signallin celebrities and footballers supporting BLM. The rest of us prefer to be anti racist by the way we live our lives always. Not just when its popular

Living my life as anti-racist by proudly booing an anti-racist protest.

What’s changed? Very little, which perhaps demonstrates that the gesture isn’t quite leading to the dismantling of capitalism and break up of the family unit as predicted by the soothsayers on here and in The Sun or on Spiked.

Quoted from Kris2

Freedom of speech/expression only protects you from the government. This is why we don't throw people in prison for disagreeing with the government or calling them all twits. Private companies have the right to deny service to anyone they want. You could try to appeal it without a leg to stand on but wouldn't waste your time. The only time throwing somebody out or refusing service tends to become a legal dispute is on grounds of discrimination.

It does not count as discrimination if they don't want you expressing your angry political views at a football match.

Not strictly correct if a private company denied someone service due to their ethnic origin they would be open to litigation.All terms and conditions and constitutions have to be Human Rights Act Compliant.
Just because many firms are ignorant of this,and due to the fact there is very little case law in this area does not mean it is legal,applied law precedents evolve over time as authorities are set by courts.  

Quoted from LH

So if you’re anti racist you’ll sit quietly through a peaceful anti-racism protest and moan about it away from the ground then? The team are making this season embarassing enough without a load of angry, middle-aged+ men turning up and booing something because it’s got an imaginary poltical party attached to it.

Thats my point i dont believe the BLM are anti racist so wouldnt sit quietly through it. How is the BLM an imaginary movement. But you do as you wish. As will I

Quoted from ska face

Living my life as anti-racist by proudly booing an anti-racist protest.

What’s changed? Very little, which perhaps demonstrates that the gesture isn’t quite leading to the dismantling of capitalism and break up of the family unit as predicted by the soothsayers on here and in The Sun or on Spiked.

And it never will lead to those outcomes. Does not mean thats what they desire and those of us who dont have to stay silent. They display and promulgate their message. Those who disagree with their ideology have the right to do the same

Quoted from bax

If you are on private property the owner of that property can remove you for any reason it deems fit enough to do so.

Would you be entitled to a refund ?

Quoted from Norseman

Yes defintely. I would boo it as its a gesture started in the states in support of a political, racist, marxist movement which i am happy to stand against.
End racism, kick it out, standing linking arms, banners, badges happy with all of them as i agree with the message not the current methods of highlighting it. So yes i will be booing

Be honest with yourself and admit if linking arms was the protest rather than taking a knee you would be on here condemning that, I am not a racist but...........I want to be totally against those willing to make a stand

I believe you have the right to boo if they want to boo if you want to it’s a free country for now anyway.

My argument is should you be thrown out the ground for it.
If so what happens then when you boo the referee if he makes a bad decision later in the game should you be thrown out for that it’s a dangerous game making up rules as you go along.

Quoted from codcheeky

Be honest with yourself and admit if linking arms was the protest rather than taking a knee you would be on here condemning that, I am not a racist but...........I want to be totally against those willing to make a stand

The kick it out campaign has been going for a long time, and everybioody gets behind it. This is quite different - whether the cause has been hijacked or not, BLM has morphed into a political party whose aims are not those of the mainstream - overthrow of capitalism and defund the police for example. BLM will always be divisive as is shown by chairman against fans, players against fans and fans against fans...and it is not doing any good at all for racial equality.

Quoted from codcheeky

Be honest with yourself and admit if linking arms was the protest rather than taking a knee you would be on here condemning that, I am not a racist but...........I want to be totally against those willing to make a stand

You dont know me and what i would do. But let me make this absolutely clear. I have worked and associated with races and creeds all over tge world without 1 not even 1 accusation of racism   Ive supported town for 56 years. I have never even in the dark old days used any racist language. I fully and whole heartedly supported the kick it out campaign without ever booing. I would fully support, linking arms, applause, wearing badges saying end racism, kick it out, not today not any day. What i will not do is support any initiative with BLM associations.
You can believe me or not makes not a jot of difference to me. I know what i stand for and very comfortable with my objections to the BLM.

Quoted from Norseman

You dont know me and what i would do. But let me make this absolutely clear. I have worked and associated with races and creeds all over tge world without 1 not even 1 accusation of racism   Ive supported town for 56 years. I have never even in the dark old days used any racist language. I fully and whole heartedly supported the kick it out campaign without ever booing. I would fully support, linking arms, applause, wearing badges saying end racism, kick it out, not today not any day. What i will not do is support any initiative with BLM associations.
You can believe me or not makes not a jot of difference to me. I know what i stand for and very comfortable with my objections to the BLM.

From elsewhere:

There’s no rule against “disrespecting the knee”. If a bunch of aging football fans wants to boo and fulminate against a player-led anti-racist initiative, and convince themselves that by doing so they are keeping their country safe from Marxism, then they should be free to do so. And everyone else should be free to make up their own minds about what is really going on.

But the players are the ones who are in control, and these protests can continue as long as they wish them to.

Quoted from Stadium

From elsewhere:

There’s no rule against “disrespecting the knee”. If a bunch of aging football fans wants to boo and fulminate against a player-led anti-racist initiative, and convince themselves that by doing so they are keeping their country safe from Marxism, then they should be free to do so. And everyone else should be free to make up their own minds about what is really going on.

But the players are the ones who are in control, and these protests can continue as long as they wish them to.

You can quote what you like, but it is proving divisive. What is the point? It certainly is not helping, is it?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

You can quote what you like, but it is proving divisive. What is the point? It certainly is not helping, is it?

Correct in your opinion.
Fortunately it's not your decision to decide what the players would like to do.

Quoted from Norseman

Yes defintely. I would boo it as its a gesture started in the states in support of a political, racist, marxist movement which i am happy to stand against.
End racism, kick it out, standing linking arms, banners, badges happy with all of them as i agree with the message not the current methods of highlighting it. So yes i will be booing

Total BS. What part of taking the knee says that you’re a racist, Marxist? You’ve swallowed a lie.

Love it when people call people Marxists without really knowing what a Marxist is...

Quite funny how this thread has made it to 6 pages when the initial question was answered within a few responses...

Probably highlights how awful our club is when people are cryarsing over some folk doing something to support a cause they believe in...

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

The kick it out campaign has been going for a long time, and everybioody gets behind it. This is quite different - whether the cause has been hijacked or not, BLM has morphed into a political party whose aims are not those of the mainstream - overthrow of capitalism and defund the police for example. BLM will always be divisive as is shown by chairman against fans, players against fans and fans against fans...and it is not doing any good at all for racial equality.

The Kick It Out campaign has been running for a long time but week in week out there were still examples of racist behaviour regularly exhibited at our football grounds which suggests not everybody gets behind it.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

The kick it out campaign has been going for a long time, and everybioody gets behind it. This is quite different - whether the cause has been hijacked or not, BLM has morphed into a political party whose aims are not those of the mainstream - overthrow of capitalism and defund the police for example. BLM will always be divisive as is shown by chairman against fans, players against fans and fans against fans...and it is not doing any good at all for racial equality.

Kind of undermines your argument t doesn't the very fact  Racism still exist is a testament to how ineffective it i has been.It is bigots such as yourself that conflated any legitimate protest with left wing Marxist classic far right tactic.You have been duped.

Quoted from barralad

The Kick It Out campaign has been running for a long time but week in week out there were still examples of racist behaviour regularly exhibited at our football grounds which suggests not everybody gets behind it.

Taking the knee isn't going to solve it either, is it?

Quoted from friskneymariner

Kind of undermines your argument t doesn't the very fact  Racism still exist is a testament to how ineffective it i has been.It is bigots such as yourself that conflated any legitimate protest with left wing Marxist classic far right tactic.You have been duped.

The dictionary definition of a bigot is "a prejudiced person who is intolerant of the views of others". Do you think that applies to you?

Yup when it comes to Racism proud to be bigoted.

Quoted from friskneymariner

Yup when it comes to Racism proud to be bigoted.

Ah, I see. You are a bigot with a halo, for jumping on to every passing bandwagon which is dividing every football club in the land (see any fans forum you like) but I am a bad bigot for pointing out the division it is causing and how ineffectual it will be?  

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Ah, I see. You are a bigot with a halo, for jumping on to every passing bandwagon which is dividing every football club in the land (see any fans forum you like) but I am a bad bigot for pointing out the division it is causing and how ineffectual it will be?  

As the issue of racial equality has been relevant for at least fifty years I would hardly describe it as some passing bandwagon,quite indicative of your true feelings is that is how you perceive it.

Quoted from friskneymariner

As the issue of racial equality has been relevant for at least fifty years I would hardly describe it as some passing bandwagon,quite indicative of your true feelings is that is how you perceive it.

You and I know he is most likely a racist. He just won’t admit it so looks for other ways to ‘dog whistle’ his thoughts.

The ‘it causes division’ argument is the most laughable. It causes division because certain people don’t like the fact players are making an anti-racist gesture.

To disguise it they then invent reasons like ‘those well paid footballers are supporting a Marxist organisation’. Or ‘It’s political’ - durrr!

My favourite is ‘they’re trained Marxists’. Like you can go to a special school where you learn about dialectics and how to conduct an ideologically pure analysis of the offside trap.

Marxism is actually good anyway so i dunno what you anti kneeling lot have against it

Quoted from friskneymariner

As the issue of racial equality has been relevant for at least fifty years I would hardly describe it as some passing bandwagon,quite indicative of your true feelings is that is how you perceive it.

My true feelings, for the umpteenth time, is that I abhor racism.

I am arguing that the bandwagon of the BLM movement (being associated with a political organisation with views wildly different to mainstream views) will harm the cause of anti-racism movements because it has caused friction and division at all clubs. I also argue that taking the knee is not going to make a jot of difference.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You and I know he is most likely a racist. He just won’t admit it so looks for other ways to ‘dog whistle’ his thoughts.

The ‘it causes division’ argument is the most laughable. It causes division because certain people don’t like the fact players are making an anti-racist gesture.

To disguise it they then invent reasons like ‘those well paid footballers are supporting a Marxist organisation’. Or ‘It’s political’ - durrr!

My favourite is ‘they’re trained Marxists’. Like you can go to a special school where you learn about dialectics and how to conduct an ideologically pure analysis of the offside trap.

See my reply above.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You and I know he is most likely a racist. He just won’t admit it so looks for other ways to ‘dog whistle’ his thoughts.

The ‘it causes division’ argument is the most laughable. It causes division because certain people don’t like the fact players are making an anti-racist gesture.

To disguise it they then invent reasons like ‘those well paid footballers are supporting a Marxist organisation’. Or ‘It’s political’ - durrr!

My favourite is ‘they’re trained Marxists’. Like you can go to a special school where you learn about dialectics and how to conduct an ideologically pure analysis of the offside trap.

Spot on Kingston.

You cannot call somebody racist with no evidence at all.
Just your hunch they might be racist, a typical lefty stunt anyone who has a different opinion to you is a racist.

Quoted from Yoda

You cannot call somebody racist with no evidence at all.
Just your hunch they might be racist, a typical lefty stunt anyone who has a different opinion to you is a racist.

It is indeed a sad old world where any dissent from the approved line is met with a barrage of accusations, all completely unfounded.

It is however important to keep having discussions on all manner of things regardless of how some people react.

In this case, the argument is whether taking the knee is proving more divisive than helpful in the fight against racism.

Quoted from Chrisblor

Marxism is actually good anyway so i dunno what you anti kneeling lot have against it

They'd rather live in a society where 1 per cent of the population own 90 per cent of the wealth. Capitalism rules and it absolutely doesn't mean that those wealthy people probably made a good chunk of their money by exploiting very poor foreign nationals. Honest.

Quoted from Yoda

You cannot call somebody racist with no evidence at all.
Just your hunch they might be racist, a typical lefty stunt anyone who has a different opinion to you is a racist.

But it's o'k to call people Marxist,,incredible.!!

Cet animal es tres mechant
Quand en attaque il ya son defendu