FAO THE GTFC SUPPORTERS TRUST

Could any of you please tell me what roll the trust had in deciding how GTFC voted in the Checkatrade trophy.

This isn't sh1t stirring it's a genuine question.  Did the trust representative have any input to any discussions or not ??

If they did, what was their view ?  

If they didn't. then why not ?

It's not a dig at the trust, but before I approach the club I'd like to get some background info.

According to the Mariners Trust on Twitter they remain strongly against the inclusion of B/ Under 21's/23's teams and have made those thoughts clear to the board.

Still dont know how we voted mind

Quoted from Cloudy

According to the Mariners Trust on Twitter they remain strongly against the inclusion of B/ Under 21's/23's teams and have made those thoughts clear to the board.

Still dont know how we voted mind

If there's another free holiday to Portugal as bait I'd imagine we voted in favour again.

The Mariners Trust board rep was involved in discussions and made the views of the fans known to the club board in no uncertain terms that fans are opposed to any inclusion of 'B' teams in the Checkatrade competition.

Quoted from Kristine

The Mariners Trust board rep was involved in discussions and made the views of the fans known to the club board in no uncertain terms that fans are opposed to any inclusion of 'B' teams in the Checkatrade competition.

Yes yes yes but how did the club vote?

Quoted from Kristine

The Mariners Trust board rep was involved in discussions and made the views of the fans known to the club board in no uncertain terms that fans are opposed to any inclusion of 'B' teams in the Checkatrade competition.

Pretty sure that Fenty et al are aware of the supporters feelings towards this competition already.

Do the board really need anyone to tell them, it was obvious from the games we took part in (609 and 597 crowds). It's not the "Fishy Five", the Twitterati, or any other vocal subset of fans who boycotted the games, it's most of the regular supporters even people who have been to every game for years. I suspect even those who went may have done so with heavy hearts.

Quoted from LH

Yes yes yes but how did the club vote?

That's for the club to announce, not the Trust.

Quoted from bax

That's for the club to announce, not the Trust.

This stance doesnt sit easily with me although I do understand it.

Maybe it is time for the Trust to upset the cosy relationship with the club by representing the fans best interests and being answerable to their membership?

Quoted from Cloudy

This stance doesnt sit easily with me although I do understand it.

Maybe it is time for the Trust to upset the cosy relationship with the club by representing the fans best interests and being answerable to their membership?

Like a democracy you mean? There's a novel concept.

Quoted from Kristine

The Mariners Trust board rep was involved in discussions and made the views of the fans known to the club board in no uncertain terms that fans are opposed to any inclusion of 'B' teams in the Checkatrade competition.

Thankyou Kristine,

I'm glad to hear that.  Not sure if you can (or even want to) answer this.  Who actually made the decision that was made (either way) in regard to the vote.  Was it a board decision, or Just the owner or the owner/CEO ?  

How about everyone refusing to buy a season ticket until GTFC release the information?

Quoted from Cloudy

This stance doesnt sit easily with me although I do understand it.

Maybe it is time for the Trust to upset the cosy relationship with the club by representing the fans best interests and being answerable to their membership?

In what way has the Trust not represented fans best interests or being answerable to the membership?

The Trust has a board member. That board member represented the fans in the boardroom. The Trust doesn't own the club, it cannot speak on behalf of the club.

Quoted from bax

In what way has the Trust not represented fans best interests or being answerable to the membership?

The Trust has a board member. That board member represented the fans in the boardroom. The Trust doesn't own the club, it cannot speak on behalf of the club.

Could it not speak on behalf of its membership and inform us as the club clearly dont want too?

Just dont understand the secrecy, from the club or the Trust.  Seems like one-up-man-ship. We know, but we arent going to tell you because you are insignificant!!

Quoted from Cloudy

Could it not speak on behalf of its membership and inform us as the club clearly dont want too?

Just dont understand the secrecy, from the club or the Trust.  Seems like one-up-man-ship. We know, but we arent going to tell you because you are insignificant!!

Well no. It's nothing to do with secrecy. The Trust doesn't own the club, it's for the club to make a statement. Speaking personally and not on behalf of the Trust, I agree 100% that the club should have made a statement by now and that every hour that ticks past it makes the situation worse. But that's a decision - for whatever reason - the club has decided to make.

I don't doubt that the Trust made their feelings clear.

I'd be pretty upset if we, as a club, voted to retain the trophy format.

But I'm more upset at this ongoing silence. The club has had more than enough time to prepare a statement, or an article, to explain how it voted on the matter, and why.

We know there was a press release written (and embargoed) ahead of time.

The club has literally had days to think about how it was going to inform the fans.

This silence, for me, speaks volumes. This is no way to treat fans who, not so long ago, raised over £110,000 - without any prompting - to help our push for promotion.

I reckon it's like when I've made a member up or have something else to say that I know will go down like a lead balloon. I don't want to do it and put it off and put it off.

Much better to get it our their John. Get it off your chest. It'll make you feel better in the long run.  

Quoted from Civvy at last

Thankyou Kristine,

I'm glad to hear that.  Not sure if you can (or even want to) answer this.  Who actually made the decision that was made (either way) in regard to the vote.  Was it a board decision, or Just the owner or the owner/CEO ?  

If I understand right the owner is  not the CEO. Is Ian Flemming the CEO? In between writing all those books about that spy.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

If I understand right the owner is  not the CEO. Is Ian Flemming the CEO? In between writing all those books about that spy.

On the night before the playoffs, I bumped into Ian outside the Army and Navy club (which as a former Commander in the RN he was a member of). Smoking a turkish cigarette through a cigarette holder, Ian told me that he based the character Blofeld on Shaun Harvey.

The Trust have a place on the board. Normal rules for a board or committee are, if the the collective board vote is different to the vote of an individual member, that member will have to stand by the collective board decision, and 'own' that collective decision, even if they don't agree with it. Normally, an individual board member cannot later state that they disagree with any collective decision of the board. The price of board membership is that you sometimes have to 'own' board decisions you disagree with.

Reading between the lines, I suspect that's probably the position the Trust are in, and why they're being a bit cagey about how they voted.

That's my understanding of how most boards and committees work, and why I'm a bored member rather than a board member.

Quoted from bax

In what way has the Trust not represented fans best interests or being answerable to the membership?

The Trust has a board member. That board member represented the fans in the boardroom. The Trust doesn't own the club, it cannot speak on behalf of the club.

Spot on. I am a Trust Board member. I know how our rep. was detailed to vote based on the communications received on the subject from those members who took the trouble to let us know. I do not know how the vote went and don't expect to until the club reveal that information in the same way as I don't know about a myriad of other decisions made by the Board of GTFC. I understand the meaning of corporate responsibility and it is clearly the responsibility of the club to inform all interested parties. Do I personally think the club should have told the fans by now? Yes without a doubt.

I don't think it is too much to ask that in exchange for over £30,000pa that we,at the very least, get a line of communication, even if many don't agree with any decisions.

If we don't get even information then it has to be asked what exactly are the Trust and its members getting for its not insignificant payment.

Nobody would expect to get everything their own way, but when we don't even get told and The Trust are not permitted to inform, then it isn't difficult to question is it all worth it?

The GT report today says

"Grimsby Town are understood to have been instrumental in ensuring changes were made to the competition ahead of the new season"

It's not hard to see through that is it? The club would not have been instrumental in ensuring changes if it was just voting against the whole concept.

So in fact we have a good idea which way JF voted, it's just a case of him/the board admitting it. No reason to be secretive is there?

JF made it very clear , as did the other fella , at the fans forum.  

The club didnt lose money on the comp last year, they dont see it as the thin edge of the wedge, you can get to Wembley , we would vote yes again, ......the fact Harvey took them for a ride last time didnt seem to sway them.  

So...i think we dont actually need a statement ..do you ?

Quoted from moosey_club

JF made it very clear , as did the other fella , at the fans forum.  

The club didnt lose money on the comp last year, they dont see it as the thin edge of the wedge, you can get to Wembley , we would vote yes again, ......the fact Harvey took them for a ride last time didnt seem to sway them.  

So...i think we dont actually need a statement ..do you ?

That would be my conclusion. They said as much at the fans forum as you point out. Also, 2/3 rds of the votes were in favour, so they are twice as likely to have voted for, rather than against.

Quoted from moosey_club

JF made it very clear , as did the other fella , at the fans forum.  

The club didnt lose money on the comp last year, they dont see it as the thin edge of the wedge, you can get to Wembley , we would vote yes again, ......the fact Harvey took them for a ride last time didnt seem to sway them.  

So...i think we dont actually need a statement ..do you ?

The problem is we now have a manger who got the last winners to Wembley, chairman (or non chairmen) may think he could do it again and make the club a bit of cash which would mean a pro vote.

Looking at the amount of poor owners in the EFL the format of this competition is not the top of their "feck up list".

I have been proud to be a trust member for the past few years.  I have massive respect for those who serve on the Mariners Trust board and get involved and can do nothing but commend them for the time and effort they put into helping our club at every level.  

However when confirmation comes that we voted to continue with B-teams in the whatever you call it trophy I will relinquish my membership of the trust.  I do not understand what it is there for anymore apart from doing good PR work that the larger shareholders then ignore.  Operation Promotion is possibly the proudest thing I have ever been involved in as a Grimsby fan and the Trust were superb and instrumental in that, and while it was a tremendous PR coup for the club, of course when we raised the total and had a celebration night John Fenty was there on BBC look north talking about how amazing Town fans are.  Then when he votes on something like this he ignores how amazing Town fans are and ignores their views.  The Trust and the hardworking individuals  who try to represent us have to relinquish their views as part of 'collective responsibility' This is not good enough, we need to have a real say in these matters not a token voice.

If I am wrong and we have been one of the minority of clubs to have opposed B teams I apologise unreservedly.  To those who work on the Trust and are appalled at our decisions but try to work within the framework of the GTFC board to make change positive, good luck and I really hope you can make a difference.  

However the betrayal of fans in this decisions is the biggest heartbreak for me in a long time..  For all the fine talk fans like us are not as important as Premier League money.  

There's only 2 good things about this competition, it's a chance to give fringe players game time and there is some meaningful prize money available if we do well in it, and that's why so many clubs voted in favour, it's the money available.

The problem is that the Trust is crippled in having to fall in line when these 'collective' decisions are made. JF has been very clever here. In keeping the Trust close and cosy with a seat on the board (which is of course more or less symbolic) he can have some degree of control and take advantage of the good work that the Trust do for free and of course the Trust have to pay 30k a year for the privilage having already transferred to JF a large number of it shares.
I would like to see the Trust as an independent enity (no board rep) that can truly fight for it's membership and GTFC supporters.

Quoted from Davec

There's only 2 good things about this competition, it's a chance to give fringe players game time and there is some meaningful prize money available if we do well in it, and that's why so many clubs voted in favour, it's the money available.

But you get fined for giving too many fringe players game time.

Quoted from pizzzza

The problem is that the Trust is crippled in having to fall in line when these 'collective' decisions are made. JF has been very clever here. In keeping the Trust close and cosy with a seat on the board (which is of course more or less symbolic) he can have some degree of control and take advantage of the good work that the Trust do for free and of course the Trust have to pay 30k a year for the privilage having already transferred to JF a large number of it shares.
I would like to see the Trust as an independent enity (no board rep) that can truly fight for it's membership and GTFC supporters.

Sadly I believe that the representatives at the top of the trust have got to close to the board and are almost scared for their voices to be heard, this has been shown in the last 2 fans forums. Like I have suggested before, why can't we have a democratic vote as who should be representing the trust on the board? At least that way their would be a degree of trust from the fans.

Quoted from GrimRob

Do the board really need anyone to tell them, it was obvious from the games we took part in (609 and 597 crowds). It's not the "Fishy Five", the Twitterati, or any other vocal subset of fans who boycotted the games, it's most of the regular supporters even people who have been to every game for years. I suspect even those who went may have done so with heavy hearts.

Its now up to the 609 and 597 to not turn up. The remaining thousands remain true to the cause.

Quoted from 1739

Sadly I believe that the representatives at the top of the trust have got to close to the board and are almost scared for their voices to be heard, this has been shown in the last 2 fans forums. Like I have suggested before, why can't we have a democratic vote as who should be representing the trust on the board? At least that way their would be a degree of trust from the fans.

All the Trust board are elected at the AGM, then they put forward candidate(s) to represent them at board level.
The club board have the right to accept or decline any candidate put forward but I agree it seems odd that, for example, Lee Mullen was appointed because he had money whilst the Trust rep has to be vetted, and carefully chosen by the club board.
I can't say I know all the Trust board but is there anyone strong enough to represent the fans more strongly? Maybe if they did their tenure would be short lived

Surley the club lose more money than they gain because the massively low crowds.

Having said that, even if we had voted against it we'd still have had it imposed on us so I wouldn't be too disappointed if we've seen the way the wind's blowing and voted accordingly. Bit like a careerist politician does.

It will be interesting to see if the Trust comes out in support of or against the fans game that seems to be gathering momentum as a protest against the EFL Trophy. I suspect that they will not be 'allowed' to rebel against the club here but I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

Perhaps it should be made clear whether the Trust members on the board are representatives or delegates.

If they are representatives of the supporters they simply state the view of the supporters and vote the way the supporters in effect have told them.

If they are delegates they have the power to consider the fans' views, listen to the arguments on the board, weigh it all up and then make a decision on how to vote.

Does Jon Wood (the Mariners Trust board representative) represent the fans or does he actually only represent himself? What if the fans feel one thing but he totally disagrees with us?

Who cares if Town get to Wembley
I'll be there!!!!

I won't.

Wembley would be one of the easier games for me to get to if we got to the final. I won't go. Attendance at Wembley is used to validate the plan. Look how Harvey used the Coventry-Oxford attendance figure. I know we'd stand to make money out of a Wembley appearance, but that only goes to the two clubs who get there. It's just another payment for the soul.

I understand John Fenty's rationale for this. Sure it's nice to have a little extra money for the club.  But as far as I'm concerned it's a Faustian pact.

It's not merely 'a little extra money for the club' though is it. The club, like many others in the football league, live precarious existences were our income has to be maintained, and a key to this income is the various competitions like this shitty trophy. I hate the way it is, but football league clubs are sadly at the mercy of the rich clubs, and can easily hold us to ransom. We can moan as much as we want, but whilst the soulless masses support the premier league franchise, there's intercourse all we can do about it.

Hard to believe that the club survived for over 100 years without any hand outs from the Premier League. The clubs who voted against this farce clearly felt they had a choice.

If suggest they're clubs who do not need the money, a lucky few.

Quoted from Vance Warner

Hard to believe that the club survived for over 100 years without any hand outs from the Premier League. The clubs who voted against this farce clearly felt they had a choice.

Exactly.

I'm a Trust board member, currently the Vice Chair. The Trust has been and remains completely opposed to B Teams in this or any other trophy. This was communicated to the Trust's rep on the club board and he put forward our case. Sadly there's only one Trust vote in the boardroom and so that's a minority vote.

Some of the stuff on here about not being strong enough or in the club's pocket is absolutely laughable and, to an extent, pretty hurtful. All of the Trust board members are volunteers. None of us get paid. We do it for the love of the club and because we want to see it succeed. There are things that collectively or individually we disagree with and we put that to the club. Sometimes we can affect change, and sometimes we can't. Obviously if people think they can do better, sign up to the Trust and look to be elected onto the board at the AGM later in the year. There will be spaces and we're always after people with the right skills to help represent supporters.

Personally speaking I'm hugely disappointed in the club's decision and the fact this has been driven by money. I respect John Fenty's view because we all want the club to be self sustainable and this bribe by the EFL and PL will balance the books. However, this is the thin edge of the wedge no matter what anyone says.

But worse, this is a two fingered salute to the supporters who have supported the club in so many different ways over the last few years. Operation Promotion, the significant increase in season ticket holders, the magnificent away followings over the last two years and the positive PR we've generated in general since the dark days if Burton. ALL of this was generated organically by the fans. Not the club.

At times, the club needs to remember that we're not just customers who help keep a business afloat. That's not how football works.

Quoted from bax

I'm a Trust board member, currently the Vice Chair. The Trust has been and remains completely opposed to B Teams in this or any other trophy. This was communicated to the Trust's rep on the club board and he put forward our case. Sadly there's only one Trust vote in the boardroom and so that's a minority vote.

Some of the stuff on here about not being strong enough or in the club's pocket is absolutely laughable and, to an extent, pretty hurtful. All of the Trust board members are volunteers. None of us get paid. We do it for the love of the club and because we want to see it succeed. There are things that collectively or individually we disagree with and we put that to the club. Sometimes we can affect change, and sometimes we can't. Obviously if people think they can do better, sign up to the Trust and look to be elected onto the board at the AGM later in the year. There will be spaces and we're always after people with the right skills to help represent supporters.

Personally speaking I'm hugely disappointed in the club's decision and the fact this has been driven by money. I respect John Fenty's view because we all want the club to be self sustainable and this bribe by the EFL and PL will balance the books. However, this is the thin edge of the wedge no matter what anyone says.

But worse, this is a two fingered salute to the supporters who have supported the club in so many different ways over the last few years. Operation Promotion, the significant increase in season ticket holders, the magnificent away followings over the last two years and the positive PR we've generated in general since the dark days if Burton. ALL of this was generated organically by the fans. Not the club.

At times, the club needs to remember that we're not just customers who help keep a business afloat. That's not how football works.

Well said Bax. Imho the trust do a fantastic job and whether we like it or not they have very limited power in the board room and that is not going to change in the near future. Don't worry about the minority on here who spout off some rubbish sometimes. It gives them something to do. I cannot speak for the majority, but I would be very surprised if most fishy posters and town fans in general didn't appreciate the hard work and time that you and other members of the trust put in, in what I am sure if often a thankless task.

UTFM

Quoted from Vance Warner

Hard to believe that the club survived for over 100 years without any hand outs from the Premier League. The clubs who voted against this farce clearly felt they had a choice.

That's not true, it may be literally the case, but it's not true in spirit. Before the formation of the Premier League a lot of the TV revenue from (mainly) First Division games used to make its way down the 92-club Football League. The main reason for creating the PL was so they didn't have to give the other 72 teams anything. The fact that not many clubs have disappeared since the formation of the PL is largely due to rich individuals keeping them afloat, plus the huge increase (in real terms) of watching lower league games for those who can still afford to attend them.

If I was a PL chairman I'd be far more interested in getting rid of (or reducing) relegation to the FL than I would in having B teams in it. I'd expect to see at some point a Premier 2 league with only limited relegation (if any) between it and the FL. I dearly hope that it doesn't happen but it's inevitable that the big boys will want the insurance of not getting relegated under any circumstances.

Is that it then? Give up now?

Let's hit back! Will the Trust now throw their weight behind a boycott or the proposed protest game that will happen when the EFLTrophy games take place?

Quoted from pizzzza

Is that it then? Give up now?

Let's hit back! Will the Trust now throw their weight behind a boycott or the proposed protest game that will happen when the EFLTrophy games take place?

well if somebody formally submits a proposal to the Trust clearly we will discuss it.

FWIW, again speaking personally, I don't think a boycott is the best way forward. It didn't work last year (I didn't go to any of the games) - look where we are now. I think there needs to be further thought and discussion to make the point clear. I don't know what that is mind you.

Although on the face of it last year's boycotts didn't stop the competition returning as it is for the next two seasons, it seems to me the sense of not being listened to is stronger this time round.

In other words, I think fans are even more p1ssed off. I think there will be more of an effort, from a lot of clubs, to deliberately set even lower attendances for these group games.

Bradford used the rules to pull that stunt with their keeper. Luton quite happily invited a fine. There will be more of this, and more controversy, this season. Even more fans will stay away.

As I said on another thread, we should keep challenging authority - even if it's 'just' a boycott, because the moment we start re-attending, it gives Harvey more 'genuine' fuel to say his changes have improved the game, and then he starts sneaking even more changes past us.

We should continue to kick up a fuss about this, and let himknow as much as we can that we won't tolerate it.

A fresh round of record-low attendances will certainly get that message across in the media - which should help gather pace and momentum, and solidarity from other clubs' fans.

Let's stage a proper effort. Try and get a double digits attendance, that would be an achievement.

Harvey will just make up stats again though as he did last season vis a vis attendance figures.

Quoted from bax

I'm a Trust board member, currently the Vice Chair. The Trust has been and remains completely opposed to B Teams in this or any other trophy. This was communicated to the Trust's rep on the club board and he put forward our case. Sadly there's only one Trust vote in the boardroom and so that's a minority vote.

Some of the stuff on here about not being strong enough or in the club's pocket is absolutely laughable and, to an extent, pretty hurtful. All of the Trust board members are volunteers. None of us get paid. We do it for the love of the club and because we want to see it succeed. There are things that collectively or individually we disagree with and we put that to the club. Sometimes we can affect change, and sometimes we can't. Obviously if people think they can do better, sign up to the Trust and look to be elected onto the board at the AGM later in the year. There will be spaces and we're always after people with the right skills to help represent supporters.

Personally speaking I'm hugely disappointed in the club's decision and the fact this has been driven by money. I respect John Fenty's view because we all want the club to be self sustainable and this bribe by the EFL and PL will balance the books. However, this is the thin edge of the wedge no matter what anyone says.

But worse, this is a two fingered salute to the supporters who have supported the club in so many different ways over the last few years. Operation Promotion, the significant increase in season ticket holders, the magnificent away followings over the last two years and the positive PR we've generated in general since the dark days if Burton. ALL of this was generated organically by the fans. Not the club.

At times, the club needs to remember that we're not just customers who help keep a business afloat. That's not how football works.

It's great that the Trust have aired the views of the fans. It's shocking that those who make the decisions at the club have ignored this.

It's a massive own goal from the club.

Quoted from bax

I'm a Trust board member, currently the Vice Chair. The Trust has been and remains completely opposed to B Teams in this or any other trophy. This was communicated to the Trust's rep on the club board and he put forward our case. Sadly there's only one Trust vote in the boardroom and so that's a minority vote.

Some of the stuff on here about not being strong enough or in the club's pocket is absolutely laughable and, to an extent, pretty hurtful. All of the Trust board members are volunteers. None of us get paid. We do it for the love of the club and because we want to see it succeed. There are things that collectively or individually we disagree with and we put that to the club. Sometimes we can affect change, and sometimes we can't. Obviously if people think they can do better, sign up to the Trust and look to be elected onto the board at the AGM later in the year. There will be spaces and we're always after people with the right skills to help represent supporters.

Personally speaking I'm hugely disappointed in the club's decision and the fact this has been driven by money. I respect John Fenty's view because we all want the club to be self sustainable and this bribe by the EFL and PL will balance the books. However, this is the thin edge of the wedge no matter what anyone says.

But worse, this is a two fingered salute to the supporters who have supported the club in so many different ways over the last few years. Operation Promotion, the significant increase in season ticket holders, the magnificent away followings over the last two years and the positive PR we've generated in general since the dark days if Burton. ALL of this was generated organically by the fans. Not the club.

At times, the club needs to remember that we're not just customers who help keep a business afloat. That's not how football works.

I want to say thank you to all the volunteers who work for the Trust, I really admire your hard work and everything you have done for the club.  I hope what I said wasn't hurtful to any of you as I made clear that I admired the time and work you all put in.  My view is that just having a minority vote as we do means that we can be easily overridden and to a large extent it seems to me are simply ignored.  I feel that the Trust are used to do good things for the club and to allow the rest of the board to say "we listen to the fans through the trust" but if the Trust being on the board is powerless when it comes to an issue fans feel as strongly about as this, then I really doubt what worth we are getting from it anymore.  That isn't to say that there are not improvements that the Trust has driven, it is just to say that those improvements pale compared to the inability to do anything about allowing the b-teams issue.  

Last night I had had a few to drink and that gave me an additional bravado, but the essence of what I said I sadly do feel and do think I will not renew my membership of the Trust as I am increasingly doubtful  about the best way to enact the change that I want to see in the club.  I would love to help out more and volunteer but I honestly don't feel I could do better than what you guys do, I don't even know how I think we can do better, or even if we can, I just am doubtful that the Trust can be part of the solution when this can happen.  I am not critcising your work at all and as I would like to reiterate I am grateful for the work you do and truly apologise if it was my comments that hurt you at all.  

Quoted from Mariner93er

It's not merely 'a little extra money for the club' though is it. The club, like many others in the football league, live precarious existences were our income has to be maintained, and a key to this income is the various competitions like this shitty trophy. I hate the way it is, but football league clubs are sadly at the mercy of the rich clubs, and can easily hold us to ransom. We can moan as much as we want, but whilst the soulless masses support the premier league franchise, there's intercourse all we can do about it.

How much does each club make out of the FL Trophy then? What is that as a percentage of income? Then net off the loss of gate receipts and other match day income from the boycott. What have you got?

Then factor in the intangible cost of the loss of confidence that fans have in those who run their clubs and run the FL. Not an immediate effect but it adds to that feeling of 'why do i bother supporting [name of club]?'

Then the bigger issue. Bigger than the revenue and confidence issue. The PL are gradually taking over the game. Concentrating more power in fewer clubs to achieve what they want. Ultimately you'll end up with the same sort of number of  teams as you have in the NFL. But at least in the US the game's governing body has control of the game as a whole - the FA are just powder puffs. All power will be in the hands of Abramovich, the rich sheikhs at Citeh and those Yank spies at United.

The more you take money from them the more say they'll have. Look at their reaction to the Accy chairman.

That's why I say taking the money is a Faustian pact (look up the Faust story).

Spitting your dummy out at the trust is not going to make one iota of difference, in fact it makes you look daft.

The trust have acted in accordance with the wishes of its members. It shows that the majority shareholder can do what he sees fit, and what he sees as the best interest of the club finances . What more do you think they could have done? Fenty has stated that we didn't loose out financially from last seasons competition. It his duty to make sure the club makes as much money as possible to be competitive. That is his driving force, right or wrong.

The real villain in all this is Harvey and the FL. Do you think that not renewing your trust membership is going to give him a sleepless night?

The whole farce just shows that its money that runs the game and if you pay enough you can do what you want.

The FL, the FA and the Premier League needs overhauling from top to bottom. Until that happens we are stuck with money men inventing money making schemes to the detriment of the fans and the game we all love.

Quoted from mimma

The trust have acted in accordance with the wishes of its members. It shows that the majority shareholder can do what he sees fit, and what he sees as the best interest of the club finances . What more do you think they could have done? Fenty has stated that we didn't loose out financially from last seasons competition. It his duty to make sure the club makes as much money as possible to be competitive. That is his driving force, right or wrong.

The real villain in all this is Harvey and the FL. Do you think that not renewing your trust membership is going to give him a sleepless night?

The whole farce just shows that its money that runs the game and if you pay enough you can do what you want.

The FL, the FA and the Premier League needs overhauling from top to bottom. Until that happens we are stuck with money men inventing money making schemes to the detriment of the fans and the game we all love.

That is true. Sadly, the members wished for the Trust to return JF to being the majority shareholder. That's the trouble with democracy I suppose.

I'd like to know what the costs and revenue were for those FL Trophy games. How much was the subsidy we got from the PL? £20 or £30k?

As for the villains, you're right but, as the old saying goes, 'all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.'

Quoted from Mariner93er

It's not merely 'a little extra money for the club' though is it. The club, like many others in the football league, live precarious existences were our income has to be maintained, and a key to this income is the various competitions like this shitty trophy. I hate the way it is, but football league clubs are sadly at the mercy of the rich clubs, and can easily hold us to ransom. We can moan as much as we want, but whilst the soulless masses support the premier league franchise, there's intercourse all we can do about it.

Totally disagree but as always it is about opinions.

As stated previously I will dramatically reduce the amount of money I put into the club each year. Will it make any difference? I doubt it, but when the board refuse to listen to the fans this is the only way I personally can make my point.

Quoted from Cloudy

this is the only way I personally can make my point.

The only person you'll be making a point to, will be yourself.  The club won't notice.

Fenty is between a rock and a hard place.  He's taking the money for now because it reduces the club's reliance on him and he believes the competition is a dud anyway.

Quoted from HackneyHaddock

The only person you'll be making a point to, will be yourself.  The club won't notice.

Fenty is between a rock and a hard place.  He's taking the money for now because it reduces the club's reliance on him and he believes the competition is a dud anyway.

Agreed about who will notice but that shows the position we are in, nobody notices, or cares what the fans think.
It is only about money to JF, so if the £20k or whatever the club receive in exchange for our morals is reduced by a couple of grand then so be it. If a few others did the same it may make a difference but I suspect others will step into my place and the club will not be affected in the slightest.

Just another nail in the coffin of football, imo

How often do boards act upon the views of that fans at football clubs? Not very often I would imagine the difference re this is that it's a view shared by many supporters across L1 & L2.

The protest in a nice friendly way should be channelled at the sponsor as sponsor pressure is the only way that I could see this changing. The changes began to happen in Fifa when the people who wanted Blatter out started courting the interest of Coca Cola, McDonalds, MasterCard etc...    

Quoted from Cloudy

Agreed about who will notice but that shows the position we are in, nobody notices, or cares what the fans think.
It is only about money to JF, so if the £20k or whatever the club receive in exchange for our morals is reduced by a couple of grand then so be it. If a few others did the same it may make a difference but I suspect others will step into my place and the club will not be affected in the slightest.

Just another nail in the coffin of football, imo

It's all about money AND control. When the Trust gave up Mike Parker's shares, they gave up any hope of any control in the club. Yes, it's been done to death on here and yes, it's history, but what it means is that JF retains power and control over major GTFC decisions and we can say and think what we like and tell the Trust till we're blue in the face but, in the end, he can still do what he wants.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

It's all about money AND control. When the Trust gave up Mike Parker's shares, they gave up any hope of any control in the club. Yes, it's been done to death on here and yes, it's history, but what it means is that JF retains power and control over major GTFC decisions and we can say and think what we like and tell the Trust till we're blue in the face but, in the end, he can still do what he wants.

Did the Trust want control of the club either then or now? I doubt they have ever had the expertise tbh

Having said that I agree it is all about money and control, not just control of the club but control of everyone within. Not a lot different to many (most?) business owners

Let's just be clear - the Trust's members democratically voted to relinquish the shares. It wasn't a board decision, it was a decision taken by every member.

Quoted from bax

Let's just be clear - the Trust's members democratically voted to relinquish the shares. It wasn't a board decision, it was a decision taken by every member.

At a time when the trust had very few members and very little time to weigh up options. It certainly was a democratic vote, there was very little choice though.  There should be no blame on the trust for what happened, the situation forced on them was uncalled for.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

The protest in a nice friendly way should be channelled at the sponsor as sponsor pressure is the only way that I could see this changing. The changes began to happen in Fifa when the people who wanted Blatter out started courting the interest of Coca Cola, McDonalds, MasterCard etc...     

Not exactly, but certainly had a "final nail" effect. The pursuit of Blatter was well underway when the sponsors intervened.

The issues are different though - there is nothing illegal in what the EFL are doing, obnoxious as it is!

Quoted from bax

Let's just be clear - the Trust's members democratically voted to relinquish the shares. It wasn't a board decision, it was a decision taken by every member.

Totally accept that. Unfortunately there were other circumstances that affected members' decisions.

Quoted from bax

Let's just be clear - the Trust's members democratically voted to relinquish the shares. It wasn't a board decision, it was a decision taken by every member.

Dont think that has ever been questioned has it?