GTST - The Past, The Present, The Future

Thanks very much for that Will.  

If people would like to set it up to have fun then good for them, enjoy !  
Maybe I'm taking it all too seriously, but if large numbers of fans could be presented with enough motivation to all pull together and donate, would it put the supporters in a strong position ?

What I'm saying is, as a fan and potential donator, what motivation can I be given to donate to GTST and not to the club ?

Not having a go, just saying the marketing/planning side of things could be clearer(IMO the website certainly could be), but it's more about having specific goals that fans can relate to e.g. "Help us raise money to...." ?

Don't get me wrong I'm happy to donate IF there is a real cause that I know will benefit the club.
If I donated £50 tommorow where would the money go ?
Right now does anybody know ?
The website doesn't really tell me, that's my point.

Sorry but right now it's not a "coherent voice".

It's great to make offers to help out others but it would be helpful if people stopped looking at others to tell them what to do and started generating some productive ideas ?
Or does that come later in the meeting ? (is that down the pub ?  )

If you want to form a social club then fine, but I'm afraid I'm not in the immediate area and not sure I'd be willing to be part of that.
I see little point in wasting time in "token gestures" to say "I did my bit for GTFC !" if it ultimately achieves little.

Maybe I'm being too demanding or critical but it'll be no good GTST turning round later saying "Well we asked but no-one was bothered".

Emma says it's down to the supporters and she's right, but where's the inspiration and leadership from the top ?
tbh already I get this feeling that really, GTST can't be bothered ?  
Or am I wrong ?

Just feel there's no point in asking people to rush around and do things just for the sake of it.

Emma says "Secondly, if there are enough people willing to step up to the plate and run such a democratic supporter body"

To achieve what ?

Thing is 80's, you're dead right. At the minute the website does need freshening up, and the Trust as it stands right now has very little direction by the admission of the current Chair. As Tarka pointed out earlier, Trusts only really thrive in adversity.

But this is the opportunity to breathe new life into the Trust. It does need a new goal, and new target to spend membership subscriptions and fundraising on. Let's get it up and running, then YOU can have a say in that decision.

Like you, I don't live in Grimsby. But I'm enthousiastic, and think that there is a role for the Trust as both a mouthpiece and a Supporter's Club. As a body that's already recognised by the Club, surely there's no greater vehicle?

The problem 80s is that there's plenty of people willing to point out the negatives but not enough (well virtually NO) people willing to DO anything positive.

Sure there are faults with the GTST website, and possibly opaque messages about it's aims, but (a) WHO is willing to spend their time to improve it? (b) Why can't people use their imagination as to what it all means?

That second question is more of a dig at the consumerist pit most people seem to have sunk into. No I'll be honest, other club's trusts have similarly expressed aims and objectives. Why are the fans of other clubs active and interested whilst Grimsby fans seem apathetic and fatalistic?

I used to feel guilty for not doing anything and I live 200 miles away. Most supporters in NE Lincs should feel ashamed.

My own view about the aims and objectives are that they are too moderate and ....well nice and inoffensive. I understand why they were worded this way at the time (GTFC wasn't in the dire straits that other clubs found themselves in). Personally speaking I think this was a mistake - a radical call to arms would in my view be more likely to motivate people. Make the message more clear cut. "WE WANT TO RUN THIS CLUB. LET'S CHANGE IT FROM BEING A TOY THAT MAKES LOCAL MILLIONAIRES FEEL GOOD ABOUT THEMSELVES".  But the thing is, most members didn't see it the same way.

And that's the whole point..

At the end of the day Will, it's not a case of wanting any glory (pardon the pun) or even having a say on "runnign things".
I'm just thinking of the club's survival or how fans could potentially either make a real difference to the club, have a real voice, so I'm just trying to help things along...

Or should I say, stop people wasting their own time if they don't actually need to ?
What I'm saying is, people don't have to make a target or do anything for the sake of it ?

Let's be honest here, who wouldn't want to put their feet up and do sodomist all ?

I'll be eager to help if it makes a real difference to GTFC but if people want to form a social club and have fun, then good luck to them.
If so, personally I won't be (not that I could), I'll just be a potential donator (waiting to see how I can be persuaded to) and a supporter keen to have a voice (if it's even possible).

Good post, and valid points.

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

Sure there are faults with the GTST website, and possibly opaque messages about it's aims, but (a) WHO is willing to spend their time to improve it?

Oh come on, changing a website ?
If people aren't prepared to do the small things(haven't people already volunteered ?), what hope is there ?

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

(b) Why can't people use their imagination as to what it all means?

That all fine and dandy, let them imagine what they like.
Are they gonna part with their money though ?

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

Why are the fans of other clubs active and interested whilst Grimsby fans seem apathetic and fatalistic?
I used to feel guilty for not doing anything and I live 200 miles away. Most supporters in NE Lincs should feel ashamed.

Have to agree...

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

My own view about the aims and objectives are that they are too moderate and ....well nice and inoffensive. I understand why they were worded this way at the time (GTFC wasn't in the dire straits that other clubs found themselves in). Personally speaking I think this was a mistake - a radical call to arms would in my view be more likely to motivate people. Make the message more clear cut. "WE WANT TO RUN THIS CLUB. LET'S CHANGE IT FROM BEING A TOY THAT MAKES LOCAL MILLIONAIRES FEEL GOOD ABOUT THEMSELVES".

But the thing is, most members didn't see it the same way.

And that's the whole point..

Well I totally agree - it's far too moderate.

Do you mean the members saw it as an extension of the "the club" i.e. GTFC and it was like "sign up, you'll be an official supporter" ?

I've said myself that part of the problem is that fans see how the club operates as a separate entity i.e. it's "the club", not "OUR club we can help make a difference to".

Personally I think it's about changing attitudes - what I might do is put the fear of god into supporters to help raise e.g. £200,000 and play on their emotions i.e. "HELP SUPPORT US OR LOSE YOUR CLUB !!"

Alternatively if they could raise money for specific things outside the clubs day to day operations e.g. signing players THEY WANT, speaker systems, saving/supporting the youth team then it would make supporters feel their donations were worthy and being used.

But it's a different principle to just "raising money" to hand a blank cheque over to Mr Fenty to let him spend it how he likes because that's what supporters do on matchdays.

Surely the whole point should be supporters get a real say in THEIR club ?

If you can tap into that, it'll catch on and the sky is the limit !

I wouldn't know about updating a website. i'd imagine it's not that difficult but I don't have the technical knowledge. But apart from Rachel Branson and a few others, who has stepped up to the plate to do it?

I'm not sure what I think about the clarity of objectives. On the one hand I think "make it bold and clear cut" so more people understand, on the other it's pandering to the marketing driven malaise that is causing the problem in the first place -"let the buggers think for themselves". (No you're right that's not gonna work is it?).

I don't know what was in the minds of most Trust members but I'd imagine most were practical, committed supporters prepared to do something but possibly a little to cynical of anything that smacked of the radical. Maybe worried (like many well-meaning people in Blair's Britain) that anything too radical would make things worse. They voted for the supporters' equivalent of trickle down economics.

Now we know that leaving football clubs (like whole economies) to be run by a rich elite leads to disaster. There's no guarantee a supporter run football club will survive let alone prosper, but it's worth the risk. Better than the risk of leaving it to a game of musical chairs (entry fee £500,000). What's the worst that could happen? Bankruptcy? Well let's start again!

You're right about trying to change people's minds. "Let's raise a million quid to kick these barstewards out for good" would motivate me more than, let's raise money to.....[insert worthwhile aim]. I'd rather chip in money for a (risky) cause that aims to make a lasting change than oo let's say, provide a change of kit for the youth team.

Quoted from 1600

Oh come on, changing a website ?
If people aren't prepared to do the small things(haven't people already volunteered ?), what hope is there ?


That all fine and dandy, let them imagine what they like.
Are they gonna part with their money though ?


Have to agree...


Well I totally agree - it's far too moderate.

Do you mean the members saw it as an extension of the "the club" i.e. GTFC and it was like "sign up, you'll be an official supporter" ?

I've said myself that part of the problem is that fans see how the club operates as a separate entity i.e. it's "the club", not "OUR club we can help make a difference to".

Personally I think it's about changing attitudes - what I might do is put the fear of god into supporters to help raise e.g. £200,000 and play on their emotions i.e. "HELP SUPPORT US OR LOSE YOUR CLUB !!"

Alternatively if they could raise money for specific things outside the clubs day to day operations e.g. signing players THEY WANT, speaker systems, saving/supporting the youth team then it would make supporters feel their donations were worthy and being used.

But it's a different principle to just "raising money" to hand a blank cheque over to Mr Fenty to let him spend it how he likes because that's what supporters do on matchdays.

Surely the whole point should be supporters get a real say in THEIR club ?

If you can tap into that, it'll catch on and the sky is the limit !

I'm all over that mate

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

I wouldn't know about updating a website. i'd imagine it's not that difficult but I don't have the technical knowledge. But apart from Rachel Branson and a few others, who has stepped up to the plate to do it?

How many do you need ?!
Don't worry it's easy.

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

I don't know what was in the minds of most Trust members but I'd imagine most were practical, committed supporters prepared to do something but possibly a little to cynical of anything that smacked of the radical.

I'd guess that's because the trust buys shares in the club ?
Not quite the same as a collective kitty for supporters money that can be pumped into it on the say so of supporters ?

To change tack could be a big issue, but it comes back to the question - what is the trust for ?
To give supporters a voice ?
But have they had one or is that because they've yet to raise enough shares ?

What would JF say if the Trust said to him:
"We're not gonna be buying shares any more, we're gonna be raising money and we'd like the board to spend it on x" ?

Quoted from 1600

How many do you need ?!
Don't worry it's easy.


I'd guess that's because the trust buys shares in the club ?
Not quite the same as a collective kitty for supporters money that can be pumped into it on the say so of supporters ?

To change tack could be a big issue, but it comes back to the question - what is the trust for ?
To give supporters a voice ?
But have they had one or is that because they've yet to raise enough shares ?

What would JF say if the Trust said to him:
"We're not gonna be buying shares any more, we're gonna be raising money and we'd like the board to spend it on x" ?

80's - with all respect you are reinventing the wheel. We never just automatically bought shares...and our perceived lack of radicalism was commensurate with the situation of the club at the time.  The Club was financially secure with a multimillionaire at the helm and we only really purchased shares during the period of the Keep the Mariners Afloat Campaign which the Trust set up jointly with the Club's Board.

After that episode finished the vast majority of our money went into sponsoring the youth set up....this was because that is what our members wanted to do.  Your notion that a "collective kitty" would be any different is entirely wrong...it is one and the same thing.

Your previous suggestion about GTST being just about "fun" is also well wide of the mark (although I do understand that it was a reaction to a previous statement). A Supporters' Trust is a democratic body that is legally formed (a long and tortuous process!) as an Industrial and Provident Society. No member is allowed to purchase more than one share which costs the grand total of £1.  When I was Chairman we were governed by the FSA (no, I don't know why either!) although this may have changed in the last couple of years.

So "fun" it could and should be but it is also very serious.