Ivan Toney

Toney has been found guilty of betting and has been given an EIGHT MONTH ban. Seems excessive to me, he didn't try to fix games but just have a bet on games that he couldn't have influenced.
Big fines yes, and a suspended sentence so if he does it again he gets banned, and help with his addiction would have been a better way of approaching this. Brentford are the big losers for something beyond their control.

Given that Luis Suarez was banned 8 months for racism makes it seem very excessive.

Quoted from LocalLadGTFC

Given that Luis Suarez was banned 8 months for racism makes it seem very excessive.

Or you look at it the other way and say Suarez’ ban was lenient…

Toney received a punishment he deserved I guess, regardless of him not betting on things he can influence, the rules are pretty clear. Didn’t Bradley Wood get a similar ban?

I’d like to think Toney is also getting access to the correct support to help him move on from what is clearly a problem for him.

There’s a wider debate that continues to rumble on about football and betting but if you out your human hat on, it’s quite sad really, a no doubt talented lad that I have no doubt would’ve been in the england squad for a World Cup and possibly other tournaments has likely seen that chance in the short term disappear, sad really…

Footballers are expressly told that they can't bet on football matches. He's been found guilty of 232 breaches over a 4 year period.

Maybe he's being made an example of because the FA can afford to ban a player from Brentford. If he played for Liverpool, Man U or Man City it might be altogether different.

I knew it was coming but hoped it might be much less severe.

The only crumb of comfort is that Brentford have always managed to replace players that have moved on, especially goalscorers. Toney is immensely talented though and offers much more than goals.

He may well have moved on had he not had the ban hanging over him and Brentford will still be a selling club despite their PL status as David Raya's imminent move demonstrates.

Fingers crossed.

I'll be running two STs again for 2023-24.

UTM and COYB

Quoted from aldi_01

Or you look at it the other way and say Suarez’ ban was lenient…

Toney received a punishment he deserved I guess, regardless of him not betting on things he can influence, the rules are pretty clear. Didn’t Bradley Wood get a similar ban?

I’d like to think Toney is also getting access to the correct support to help him move on from what is clearly a problem for him.

There’s a wider debate that continues to rumble on about football and betting but if you out your human hat on, it’s quite sad really, a no doubt talented lad that I have no doubt would’ve been in the england squad for a World Cup and possibly other tournaments has likely seen that chance in the short term disappear, sad really…

Bradley Wood got 6 years in 2018! His was blatant match fixing that included one of his mates placing a very large bet on him to get booked with William Hill.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Bradley Wood got 6 years in 2018! His was blatant match fixing that included one of his mates placing a very large bet on him to get booked with William Hill.

Then I’d argue that Toney’s over 200 breaches is lenient…

Quoted from aldi_01

Then I’d argue that Toney’s over 200 breaches is lenient…

Depends on the breach? He's placed an average of 1.25 bets per week for 4 years, and there isn't any detail on the bets, but it clearly wasn't match-fixing.

Lincoln did extremely well out of Bradley Wood getting booked that night; Ipswich took a terrible free kick in the last minute, Lincoln went up the other end and Nathan Arnold rounded the keeper to send them through. Without that intent to get booked and earn his mates a few quid, who knows what would have happened?

Restraint of trade if it's in matches he has no influence in.

By banning him from football, they have given him a long time with nothing to do with a excrement load of money. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for punishing wrong doing, but he needs help with his addiction, and this isn't it. In this case, a suspended ban would have done the trick, since if he gets caught again, then yes ban him for 8 months.

Is he addicted? Might've been 232 £1 accumulators on Brazilian Serie B and the Zambian Premier League.

As the report's not been released yet I've no idea if it's lenient or not.

(He was on loan at Scunthorpe during this period so was possibly just bored)

The bets were actually 10p Round Robins and if they had all come up he would have won £4 - 27p.

Quoted from Abdul19

Is he addicted? Might've been 232 £1 accumulators on Brazilian Serie B and the Zambian Premier League.

As the report's not been released yet I've no idea if it's lenient or not.

(He was on loan at Scunthorpe during this period so was possibly just bored)

If this included his time at Scunny then given Swann has massive gambling issues maybe he picked up the habit there ?

Him and Swann were often seen together so could be some truth in that. I bumped into both of them at a grime night at Henry Afrikas.

Personally I think it's excessive, however firstly you have to bear in mind if they are lenient it doesn't act as much of a deterrent and they have already been lenient by starting it now when Brentford are safe and 3 months will be eaten up with pre-season so it's only a 5 month ban really and he can train with his club for the last 4 months.

Compare it to Rob Howley's ban for betting being 18 months suspension from rugby and it is pretty lenient really

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rob-howley-betting-scandal-suspension-17427375

Excessive ban for what I presume is naive stupidity rather than intent to benefit from intelligence/ability to influence the outcome.

Don't personally think any of the footballing authorities are in a position to issue any bans, nor guidance, on betting when they continue to allow betting companies to sponsor teams and competitions.  

Convenient that this hard-line approach comes at the time when the authorities have received criticism for not doing enough with their recent moves towards removing shirt sponsorship by betting companies.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Bradley Wood got 6 years in 2018! His was blatant match fixing that included one of his mates placing a very large bet on him to get booked with William Hill.

It’s called Spot Fixing. Match fixing is deliberately influencing the result of the match as is a much more serious offence. As you said he got himself booked deliberately.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

It’s called Spot Fixing. Match fixing is deliberately influencing the result of the match as is a much more serious offence. As you said he got himself booked deliberately.

The consequence of him getting booked though was that Ipswich took a terrible free kick and Lincoln went down the other end on the counter attack to win the game.

I'm inclined to think Toney needs help rather than punishment.

It's not as though he needed to show a profit from the gambling - he was looking at a footballing future which would make him a
multi-millionaire by the time he retired.

I find it impossible to understand, unless there's a gene in his DNA which predisposes him to gamble.
(I've read that there's a gene which determines whether or not a person is liable to commit crime, but the above is just a guess.)

Quoted from 137

I'm inclined to think Toney needs help rather than punishment.

It's not as though he needed to show a profit from the gambling - he was looking at a footballing future which would make him a
multi-millionaire by the time he retired.

I find it impossible to understand, unless there's a gene in his DNA which predisposes him to gamble.
(I've read that there's a gene which determines whether or not a person is liable to commit crime, but the above is just a guess.)

Have you ever seen him interviewed? He's not the brightest.

I don't think Toney is addicted if he only had  1-25 bets a week. Surely he would have been at the bookies every day of he had an addiction..

8 months seems a bit harsh to the offence but the FA are stamping down on it to put other players off I suppose.A bit of help  and support with a suspended sentence would have been a fairer way to go in my opinion.

NAME SHAME

In the 60-s 3 Sheffield Wed players were banned for life but they Were betting their team losing so deserved everything they got.
Peter Swan. Tony Kay and Bronco Layne.  All good players but very stupid.  Swan and Kay had played for England.

A couple of people have mentioned his addiction to gambling - 1.25 bets per week over a 4 year period is hardly an uncontrollable addiction.

I have granola for breakfast nearly every morning so my granola habit is around 5 times worse that Toney's gambling issues.

The charges only refer to football bets, I accept he could have been betting on other things.

And for the record, I can stop eating granola any time I choose.....

Quoted from grimsby pete

I don't think Toney is addicted if he only had  1-25 bets a week. Surely he would have been at the bookies every day of he had an addiction..

8 months seems a bit harsh to the offence but the FA are stamping down on it to put other players off I suppose.A bit of help  and support with a suspended sentence would have been a fairer way to go in my opinion.

NAME SHAME

In the 60-s 3 Sheffield Wed players were banned for life but they Were betting their team losing so deserved everything they got.
Peter Swan. Tony Kay and Bronco Layne.  All good players but very stupid.  Swan and Kay had played for England.

PETER SWAN! Now it all makes sense....

If I was earning millions of pounds a year playing football and was aware that I might get banned for a substantial amount of time if I bet on football (and therefore, no doubt, lose a lot of his salary), I think I'd make the considered decision not to bet on football.

You can bet on racehorses, greyhounds and practically anything else you can imagine if you really feel the urge, but football? Nope.

Quoted from Maringer

If I was earning millions of pounds a year playing football and was aware that I might get banned for a substantial amount of time if I bet on football (and therefore, no doubt, lose a lot of his salary), I think I'd make the considered decision not to bet on football.

You can bet on racehorses, greyhounds and practically anything else you can imagine if you really feel the urge, but football? Nope.

If you did bet on football and chose GRIMSBY to win you would lose.

If you chose GRIMSBY to lose you would also lose.

That's because we have that annoying habit of losing when you think we would win and winning when you think we would lose.

Quoted from Maringer

If I was earning millions of pounds a year playing football and was aware that I might get banned for a substantial amount of time if I bet on football (and therefore, no doubt, lose a lot of his salary), I think I'd make the considered decision not to bet on football.

You can bet on racehorses, greyhounds and practically anything else you can imagine if you really feel the urge, but football? Nope.

Please refer to my earlier post re Ivan Toney.

Thick as mince.

Quoted from 137

I'm inclined to think Toney needs help rather than punishment.

It's not as though he needed to show a profit from the gambling - he was looking at a footballing future which would make him a
multi-millionaire by the time he retired.

I find it impossible to understand, unless there's a gene in his DNA which predisposes him to gamble.
(I've read that there's a gene which determines whether or not a person is liable to commit crime, but the above is just a guess.)

Any addiction is serious. Speculating on whether Toney has a gambling problem is pointless.

Me and Grantham Mariner both have a £5 bet each on every GTFC match & split the winnings between us. It’s a bit of fun and in monetary terms over a year is the same as playing Euromillions on Tuesday & Friday every week.

I know I’m not addicted to gambling and I’m pretty certain my dad isn’t either. Luke Waterfall’s goals in 2021/22 helped us make a small profit heading into the playoffs and having used some small wins and refunds from voided bets to put money on us getting promoted at odds of up to 20/1 when we were doing poorly over winter won us £530 which more or less paid for our STs last summer (£340+£225=£565 - 5% MT discount = £536.75.)

There’s nothing wrong with gambling, but there is a problem with how in bed football is with the industry. The EFL shouldn’t have a title sponsor of a gambling company. There should be zero gambling company sponsors on team kit. There should be zero advertising boards for gambling companies. And TV advertising should be restricted to after the watershed.

Anyway Toney, as a professional footballer, isn’t banned from gambling. He’s banned from gambling on football. So even if he was addicted there are plenty of other sports he could gamble on without a problem. But he gambled on football and there has to be a significant deterrent in the punishment he receives.

Quoted from 137

I'm inclined to think Toney needs help rather than punishment.

It's not as though he needed to show a profit from the gambling - he was looking at a footballing future which would make him a
multi-millionaire by the time he retired.

I find it impossible to understand, unless there's a gene in his DNA which predisposes him to gamble.
(I've read that there's a gene which determines whether or not a person is liable to commit crime, but the above is just a guess.)

That's a bit....national socialist..isn't it?  Or is there genuinely a crime gene? I'm gonna google it for several hours and find out now lol

I have a bet every week during the football season. I do a £2 accumulator on 6 homes that have to be evens or better, so if you get it up you are guaranteed £128 but usually it's a lot more than that if your selections are say 5/4 or 11/8 etc. As there are only about 35 weeks in a football season you only need to get it up once to be in profit. I never include Town in my bet though.

I've been doing it for about 7 or 8 years now and only once have I not not won at least once. I got it up once this season winning just over £300.

I can stop anytime I like though.  

Quoted from Les Brechin

I have a bet every week during the football season. I do a £2 accumulator on 6 homes that have to be evens or better, so if you get it up you are guaranteed £128 but usually it's a lot more than that if your selections are say 5/4 or 11/8 etc. As there are only about 35 weeks in a football season you only need to get it up once to be in profit. I never include Town in my bet though.

I've been doing it for about 7 or 8 years now and only once have I not not won at least once. I got it up once this season winning just over £300.

I can stop anytime I like though.  

How many times did you get it up this season? I hope it didn’t happen when Mrs Brechin had a headache.

Quoted from OddShapedBalls

That's a bit....national socialist..isn't it?  Or is there genuinely a crime gene? I'm gonna google it for several hours and find out now lol

It does sound a bit like he’s been reading Galton’s theory on Eugenics.

Quoted from OddShapedBalls

That's a bit....national socialist..isn't it?  Or is there genuinely a crime gene? I'm gonna google it for several hours and find out now lol

Quoted from GollyGTFC

It does sound a bit like he’s been reading Galton’s theory on Eugenics.

Non-football, but here's a few links:

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/genetic-factors-and-criminal-behavior

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180530-the-controversial-debut-of-genes-in-criminal-cases

https://bsj.berkeley.edu/born-to-kill-the-story-of-serial-killer-genes/

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29760212

Quoted from GollyGTFC

How many times did you get it up this season? I hope it didn’t happen when Mrs Brechin had a headache.

There is no Mrs Brechin! Apart from my 93-year old mum that is.  

Quoted from GollyGTFC

It’s called Spot Fixing. Match fixing is deliberately influencing the result of the match as is a much more serious offence. As you said he got himself booked deliberately.

I'll was hoping Bradley would have told me the truth to this but there is always that small element of not wanting to embarrass himself but says he had nothing to do with that you cant control your friends if they want to place bets on you.  

Quoted from grimsby pete

I don't think Toney is addicted if he only had  1-25 bets a week. Surely he would have been at the bookies every day of he had an addiction..

8 months seems a bit harsh to the offence but the FA are stamping down on it to put other players off I suppose.A bit of help  and support with a suspended sentence would have been a fairer way to go in my opinion.

NAME SHAME

In the 60-s 3 Sheffield Wed players were banned for life but they Were betting their team losing so deserved everything they got.
Peter Swan. Tony Kay and Bronco Layne.  All good players but very stupid.  Swan and Kay had played for England.

Swan , and his family, ran a pub in the suburbs of Chesterfield in later life, have used it last few times we have played them, alot of his  memorabilia on the walls and he used to sit in the corner of the bar supping a pint , sadly suffering from i think dementia.
Knew nothing of his story until I went in there. Was hotly tipped to take over or rival Gordon Banks for no.1 spot.

Believe he died a couple of years ago.

If only Swann had put his bets on Scunny losing every week he'd be laughing

Quoted from 137

Non-football, but here's a few links:

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/genetic-factors-and-criminal-behavior

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180530-the-controversial-debut-of-genes-in-criminal-cases

https://bsj.berkeley.edu/born-to-kill-the-story-of-serial-killer-genes/

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29760212

It's an interesting subject, but it's all a bit 'minority report' for my liking....

If you are a massive football club, owned by a nation state and continuously break the FFP rules, you just pay a bit of a fine and carry on.

If you are a footballer, with obvious mental health issues and you break the rules, you get fined and banned from attending your football club for eight months - taking away the one support group that has pledged to stand by you.

Given the amount of betting sponsorship in the game in this country, are the FA simply blaming errant players rather than looking at the deep rooted, gambling culture, that they condone, and no doubt, support.

You obviously don't understand the facts about addiction!

Quoted from Maringer

If I was earning millions of pounds a year playing football and was aware that I might get banned for a substantial amount of time if I bet on football (and therefore, no doubt, lose a lot of his salary), I think I'd make the considered decision not to bet on football.

You can bet on racehorses, greyhounds and practically anything else you can imagine if you really feel the urge, but football? Nope.

Quoted from malkamalka

If you are a massive football club, owned by a nation state and continuously break the FFP rules, you just pay a bit of a fine and carry on.

If you are a footballer, with obvious mental health issues and you break the rules, you get fined and banned from attending your football club for eight months - taking away the one support group that has pledged to stand by you.

Given the amount of betting sponsorship in the game in this country, are the FA simply blaming errant players rather than looking at the deep rooted, gambling culture, that they condone, and no doubt, support.

When Jay Rollins at Boston got banned, he was out with an ACL injury (or similar) that he sustained in the pre-season game against us. He wasn't even allowed to have the club take care of his rehab whilst he was banned, and had to sort it all out privately himself.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

A couple of people have mentioned his addiction to gambling - 1.25 bets per week over a 4 year period is hardly an uncontrollable addiction.

I have granola for breakfast nearly every morning so my granola habit is around 5 times worse that Toney's gambling issues.

The charges only refer to football bets, I accept he could have been betting on other things.

And for the record, I can stop eating granola any time I choose.....

Are you sure I tried coming off the Oatibix and couldn’t hack it

More details about his betting:

https://www.theguardian.com/fo.....iction-ban-brentford

Sounds as though he is lucky the ban isn't longer! Gambling addiction diagnosed and taken into account with the sentencing, apparently.

Tbf he probably forgot he played for Newcastle.

Quoted from Abdul19

Tbf he probably forgot he played for Newcastle.

I hope he forgot that he played for Scunny!  

Betting his own team to lose !!!!!

How could he. ?

Deserves his ban and a bit more.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Betting his own team to lose !!!!!

How could he. ?

Deserves his ban and a bit more.

In hindsight it's a pretty good bet and shows confidence in his own abilities if he was out injured 😁

Toney got a reduced ban because he got his  (or a) psychiatrist to give testimony on his behalf.  He said Toney had admitted his addiction and was seeking professional help.

I’m glad he admitted his addiction and I’m glad that was taken into consideration but all those that suggested it was harsh and that he hadn’t bet on his moan team now look a bit silly…

The really sad thing in all this is that a bloke who clearly has a talent will now be remembered for this, for the rest of his life probably…

Maybe I'm the minority but feel his sentence is harsh he never played in any of the matches he bet on.. he's admitted he has a problem and hopefully he can now get the help he needs..

The bigger problem for me is the EFL, FA all accepting large amounts of cash to promote gambling all the shirt sponsorship that seems to be the norm.. Will be surprised if Toney is the only player falling foul of the laws.

It will be forgotten when he comes back. Like with Trippier

Quoted from aldi_01

I’m glad he admitted his addiction and I’m glad that was taken into consideration but all those that suggested it was harsh and that he hadn’t bet on his moan team now look a bit silly…

The really sad thing in all this is that a bloke who clearly has a talent will now be remembered for this, for the rest of his life probably…

This in flipping spades!!!!

I wonder if any of these players who have gambling problems have topped out Peter Swanns 20 million quid loss at the bookies? .
Bonkers , and it's actively encouraged - gambling is like any addiction for me, although not physical I can see how you could 'get a taste ' for it - not my thing as i'm tight and would rather put a few quid in a jar than chase the dream .

it's all most the worse addiction because it's essentially the easiest one to hide , drug addicts alcholics are usually easily picked out , the thing is the online & betting shop bookies will never stop a problem gambler chasing his losses no matter what they say , for me it needs to be spoke about in schools , it opens old wounds for me my old man was a gambling addict back in the day when i was a child

Quoted from fishcake63

it's all most the worse addiction because it's essentially the easiest one to hide , drug addicts alcholics are usually easily picked out , the thing is the online & betting shop bookies will never stop a problem gambler chasing his losses no matter what they say , for me it needs to be spoke about in schools , it opens old wounds for me my old man was a gambling addict back in the day when i was a child

So I used to work with a lad, I recruited him he came across well n two interviews & had good references.

He worked hard but I always felt he was a bit difficult to get to know, not shy or reserved but just something.

I found out what it was when his Mrs turned up at work one Saturday morning to say he’s been sent to prison for knocking telly’s out of the back door at Tesco

Why? He had a gambling addiction that meant he’d lost his previous wife, house, kids and what I later got to understand his self esteem.

Addictions are not diseases they are conditions so difficult to cure, in fact they truly can’t be cured & have to be managed daily forever.

I’m not a spiteful person but the disregard I have for betting and betting in sport puts me in that space not towards the people who punt but the people who make millions from the misery of the whole scenario.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

So I used to work with a lad, I recruited him he came across well n two interviews & had good references.

He worked hard but I always felt he was a bit difficult to get to know, not shy or reserved but just something.

I found out what it was when his Mrs turned up at work one Saturday morning to say he’s been sent to prison for knocking telly’s out of the back door at Tesco

Why? He had a gambling addiction that meant he’d lost his previous wife, house, kids and what I later got to understand his self esteem.

Addictions are not diseases they are conditions so difficult to cure, in fact they truly can’t be cured & have to be managed daily forever.

I’m not a spiteful person but the disregard I have for betting and betting in sport puts me in that space not towards the people who punt but the people who make millions from the misery of the whole scenario.

Great post and I bet many have either been in that position ,or know of someone similiar. Let's face it we all have our vices and I bet if a good few started to have a dabble they would end up in Toneys position , probably worse ; he can make another 50k next week or whatever .

The best thing that could come out of it would be Toney getting rehab and actively going against gambling.

But mainstream media will still promote the fu*k out of the apps etc while then putting a small 'gamble aware ' at the end .

It's the equivalent of when they promoted cigs back in the day all over the place , with the small warning at the end that you could barely see.

Quoted from Mappers

I wonder if any of these players who have gambling problems have topped out Peter Swanns 20 million quid loss at the bookies? .
Bonkers , and it's actively encouraged - gambling is like any addiction for me, although not physical I can see how you could 'get a taste ' for it - not my thing as i'm tight and would rather put a few quid in a jar than chase the dream .

The actual amount of money doesn't really mean anything mate.
What is important is how much the individual needs that money or how much of a problem the debt will be.

Gambling addiction has many forms and I agree with fishcake that is different to drugs or alcohol because it is much easier to hide, though not forever.

The statistics for the number of addicts in this country, and I guess everywhere else, are an absolute joke. It is incredible how it has been allowed to become so mainstream. Saying that we can have a decent punt at why it has been allowed to do so but I don't think it will be that long until things have to change socially.

As for Toney I'm not really sure where I stand. I hope he isn't an addict but if he is I hope that he manages to get the help that he needs to move on with his career/life.
The news today about betting against his contracted employer looks pretty awful and does present many questions though.

It’s not helped by the language used…

I hear ‘that goal cost me 3 grand’ or whatever countless times in a pub or at the match in the season…

It didn’t cost them 3 grand though, not unless that’s how much they bet, it cost them the price of then stake but it’s not seen as that.

Gambling has never appealed to me but I do see why people do it, but as you say, it’s the silent, almost invisible addiction. Ya never see a bookie throw anyone out and all those nonsense ‘bet responsibly’ and ‘set betting limits’ is just guff…asking an addict to set a limit is like asking a dog to excrement in a toilet…it’s not happening…

I once stood with 4 lads in the boozer one Sunday, tail end of the season, they calculated between them that they’d some about £30-35k over the season…they were buzzing, like patting themselves on the back etc…I lent in and asked them how much they’d all staked across the season…they worked it out…£28500 there are there abouts…they weren’t patting each other on the back so much after that, but they still couldn’t see that they’d made very little in comparison to the money laid out…

I hate gambling id ban all the apps on the phone and limit bets in person at the bookies to say a fiver tops. That Coates woman CEO of bet 365 is the highest paid boss in the uk, that tells you everything. I worked with a bloke who would spin a casino wheel on his break at work I might add not a real casino a digital one and lose a days pay before 10am. It’s not the complete answer but make it harder to place bets would help

It’s all about the person, like the ones that smoke . They can’t or won’t stop even though they know it’s killing them .
I like a bet (on golf) it makes it more interesting to watch, I spend about £20 a week which is well within my budget and when I win it obviously costs me nothing , but if I win a couple of hundred I will then spend a bit more . Imagine that with a few more 0s on the end for these high earners .
My gambling is not an addiction it’s a form of entertainment, people who bet on the toss of a coin etc have a gambling addiction and need help

Quoted from CSLM

The actual amount of money doesn't really mean anything mate.
What is important is how much the individual needs that money or how much of a problem the debt will be.

Gambling addiction has many forms and I agree with fishcake that is different to drugs or alcohol because it is much easier to hide, though not forever.

The statistics for the number of addicts in this country, and I guess everywhere else, are an absolute joke. It is incredible how it has been allowed to become so mainstream. Saying that we can have a decent punt at why it has been allowed to do so but I don't think it will be that long until things have to change socially.

As for Toney I'm not really sure where I stand. I hope he isn't an addict but if he is I hope that he manages to get the help that he needs to move on with his career/life.
The news today about betting against his contracted employer looks pretty awful and does present many questions though.

I agree mate the amount does not matter it's more how it can effect people and those around them's lives .

I think another issue is that cash you don't have is so readily available -I am always getting mail through begging me to get a credit card , so I could see people 'having a go' with no cash in the bank .

If you win you chase more , if you lose you try and recoup I guess if you are an addict + maybe the buzz?

Whether Toney is an addict or not is irrelevant really i guess , if it highlights the problem more and makes positive change .

Can anyone actually see that though?

Go to the races 3 windows for paying in one for paying out, all you need to know.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Go to the races 3 windows for paying in one for paying out, all you need to know.

On a similar vein, you have 1 horse running for you and the bookie has the rest.