Well done GTFC and trust (again)

It’s an unfortunate situation as it is something we have to play in. It’s not going to go away and the only way I can see this even marginally being ok is if the team consisted of all English (British?) players. Though, what sort of experience it actually gives them is lost on me.

When players are being paid£xxx thousand a week and clubs are struggling with debt I think it’s obvious to all where the problems are

Quoted from GrimPol

But the point is what?
The Board/Trust have said they have " opposition to the inclusion of any Under 21 or U23 teams joining the Football League, in any way."  The fans (most?) are happy with GTFC being on their side and now what?
Does PH send a team out made up of tea ladies, ball boys, and the kit man, being thrashed 22-0, and that will show "them", a poke in the eye, they'll never forget? Or do fans stay away, and starve the club of money that it requires for the next push.? In the meantime for and against buying tickets for these games can turn nasty like last time.
Playing to the gallery might get them instant gratification, but in the long run, will only show a poor decision which I thought we had turned a corner on.
The board should keep their politics and push at the EFL. Now what will they say when only 50 punters turn up to a game?

Sorry I don't understand what point your making? What will who say when 50 punters turn up? Who is them getting instant gratification? Are you talking about the board - I just don't get what point you are making.

Quoted from diehardmariner

The main reason solidarity payments are needed is because of the monster that the Premier League has created in our game.

intercourse 'em.  Sick and tired of the attitude that we should be grateful for what they give us.  The solidarity payments, the youth funding....it's absolute crumbs that they're brushing off the top table and the Football League are sitting there waiting for it like lapdogs.  

If anyone honestly believes that the Premier League still doesn't want to have Under 23/21's in the pyramid then ask yourself why are they still in this competition?  3 guaranteed games a season against under strength sides from well down the pyramid.   If they wanted games they would get more from trying to enter sides into the reserve leagues such as the Central League.  They've made no attempts to do so because it wouldn't suit the wider agenda.

People start creeping back into watch these games then it justifies the move.  All it takes is for attendances to be there or thereabouts what they were pre-2016.  That then sends the message that they can grind it out, they can wear us down and get what they want.  

Next step will be Under 23 teams in the League Cup, with some bizarre conditions that they can't play each other, so in the event that Spurs Under 23's draw Spurs then the first team get a bye. That'll go on with protests for a little while, until people get worn down and drawn back in with offers to see 'The Next Generation' for a fiver and they'll be justified that gates are returned....It's a long drawn out plan.  

Stay strong people.  Flinch now and they'll take advantage, refuse to budge and they'll eventually have to accept defeat.

Perhaps I'm just a bit too naive or too trusting with things when it comes to things like this. I'm not swayed either way with U23 teams being in the EFL Trophy. I AM against U23/B Teams being in the EFL League structure. I know the argument from Clubs/FA is that the players within these teams need to be better challenged in order for them to reach their full potential, which playing within an U23 league doesn't achieve. I see that argument but I don't believe that's the only way around it, loans worked out perfectly well for Harry Kane amongst many others, as would big clubs placing faith in their talent as we've seen with Phil Foden.

These teams playing in the EFL Trophy is a compromise based on the fact the EFL won't allow them in to the League structure. The competition from it's existing Clubs, not to mention the growing standard of Clubs in VNL & VNN/VNS means it isn't feasible. This is where I'm maybe too trusting in that the EFL will maintain that position without the need of protest from fans, it seems too obvious a scenario to warrant it.

As for the EFL Trophy, it was always a reduced interest competition anyway. Until a team started reaching the final stages and the prospect of Wembley was on the horizon it was rarely of interest to my recollection. No-one ever cried if we went out in the group stages as it allowed more concentration on the League, which is always number one priority.

Perhaps I'm in a minority based on not seeing a risk of U23 sides getting into the EFL but that's why I'm not fiercely in opposition. I'd rather them not be in it but it doesn't really make much difference in my eyes. If I was more inclined to believe the EFL would let U23 sides in then perhaps I'd be more against it all.

The wedge is slowly but surely being driven in.

Resist at all costs and boycott this sham of a competition.

The only way that the EFL clubs will really make a stand is by boycotting the final when it’s on Sky . An empty Wembley would be the ultimate show of solidarity against the PL and Sky £££ .

The fact that this issue is being discussed again, and we have an increasing amount of fans stating their apathy (rather than outright rejection of B-teams) only goes to show that the fight has to remain.

Enough people go 'meh' and don't hold decision-makers to account, that's when the PL and EFL walk all over us.

Quoted from GrimPol

But the point is what?
The Board/Trust have said they have " opposition to the inclusion of any Under 21 or U23 teams joining the Football League, in any way."  The fans (most?) are happy with GTFC being on their side and now what?
Does PH send a team out made up of tea ladies, ball boys, and the kit man, being thrashed 22-0, and that will show "them", a poke in the eye, they'll never forget? Or do fans stay away, and starve the club of money that it requires for the next push.? In the meantime for and against buying tickets for these games can turn nasty like last time.
Playing to the gallery might get them instant gratification, but in the long run, will only show a poor decision which I thought we had turned a corner on.
The board should keep their politics and push at the EFL. Now what will they say when only 50 punters turn up to a game?

It sends a message that we as fans don't accept a competition that includes b teams.

It's an insult to our History. It's not people staying away that will starve the club of money, it is the format of the competition.

I would attend all the home games if B Teams weren't in the competition. I have a season ticket and go away. I won't set foot in any papa johns game.

People accepting and attending these games is short sighted and bad for unfashionable club's like ours.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Perhaps I'm just a bit too naive or too trusting with things when it comes to things like this. I'm not swayed either way with U23 teams being in the EFL Trophy. I AM against U23/B Teams being in the EFL League structure. I know the argument from Clubs/FA is that the players within these teams need to be better challenged in order for them to reach their full potential, which playing within an U23 league doesn't achieve. I see that argument but I don't believe that's the only way around it, loans worked out perfectly well for Harry Kane amongst many others, as would big clubs placing faith in their talent as we've seen with Phil Foden.

These teams playing in the EFL Trophy is a compromise based on the fact the EFL won't allow them in to the League structure. The competition from it's existing Clubs, not to mention the growing standard of Clubs in VNL & VNN/VNS means it isn't feasible. This is where I'm maybe too trusting in that the EFL will maintain that position without the need of protest from fans, it seems too obvious a scenario to warrant it.

As for the EFL Trophy, it was always a reduced interest competition anyway. Until a team started reaching the final stages and the prospect of Wembley was on the horizon it was rarely of interest to my recollection. No-one ever cried if we went out in the group stages as it allowed more concentration on the League, which is always number one priority.

Perhaps I'm in a minority based on not seeing a risk of U23 sides getting into the EFL but that's why I'm not fiercely in opposition. I'd rather them not be in it but it doesn't really make much difference in my eyes. If I was more inclined to believe the EFL would let U23 sides in then perhaps I'd be more against it all.

Unfortunately I think you're definitely too trusting on the issue.

If I get chance later I'll look for some quotes from those in positions of power on this that directly link the Under 23's in the EFL Trophy to their participation in the Football League itself.   Believe me, that is their agenda.  This is a way to push the door open ajar for them to kick it in with their Under 23 teams in the competition.

If the 2016/17 competition saw no decrease in gates, that would have been enough for the entry within 2 seasons for Under 23 teams into the football pyramid.  That's all it would have taken.  Idiots like Shaun Harvey believed that getting cosy with the Premier League would see him viewed in favour when it came to getting a job further down the line with them.  Idiots like some non-chairmen felt it would view them in greater esteem higher up the food chain and/or were swayed by that dribble of cash that was dangled down like a poisoned carrot.

There's absolutely no way the Premier League sides want to put their Under 23's through 3 games against similar age groups at less developed academy set-ups.  Because that's what the trophy is.  No way at all, unless they've got an ulterior motive.  Clubs like Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool et al. stockpile kids in their Academy systems.  They don't have enough games available for them all to get competitive action.  Unless these lads get game time it's difficult for them to develop and then be sold on for a big profit (this is a huge market for clubs, Chelsea especially).  The loan market is fine and has worked well previously, but so called elite clubs are becoming more untrusting of it.  1) There's the fear that they loan players out and they'll enjoy the actual feeling of being involved at a first-team set-up and want to stay away from their parent club. 2) They can't control their development if they're on loan at Accrington or Leyton Orient (which I do understand to an extent). 3) There's a risk that their prized assets are shown up in the lower leagues which massively impacts on their value.  

Forgive me but I don't understand your point about a compromise.  Why on earth should there be any sort of compromise?  We don't owe the Premier League anything.  When the motion was put on the table to introduce Under 23 teams at any level in the EFL structure it should have been voted down unconditionally.  

If you trust the same powers that were happy to go behind everyone's back to set up a European Super League on this matter then that's your choice.  But I absolutely don't trust any of the cretins that have pushed this agenda forward and I'll remain firm in my non-support for this competition until the Under 23's are removed from it.  It wasn't the best competition in the world, you're absolutely right.  It was generally poorly attended and of no interest to anyone until the very final stages.  But this isn't about the integrity of a crappy competition that no-one cares for.  It's about nipping this agenda in the bud now rather than letting Under 23 teams creep in and opening a massive can of worms that we'll never be able to put back in.

I notice that the Scottish Lowland Football League (one step below the Scottish Professional Football League) has had Rangers 'B' and Celtic 'B' teams playing in it during the last season. Reportedly, the SLFL themselves approached the Old Firm clubs to ask them to enter 'B' teams in their league.

I'd imagine they were thinking about getting some extra gate money in but they are at the start of a slippery slope. Yes, Scottish football is crap at the moment, but I suspect that Old Firm 'B' teams would be at Scottish Championship level of ability so I reckon with their toe in the door of their pyramid, it will only be a matter of time before they are in the SPFL itself.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Unfortunately I think you're definitely too trusting on the issue.

If I get chance later I'll look for some quotes from those in positions of power on this that directly link the Under 23's in the EFL Trophy to their participation in the Football League itself.   Believe me, that is their agenda.  This is a way to push the door open ajar for them to kick it in with their Under 23 teams in the competition.

If the 2016/17 competition saw no decrease in gates, that would have been enough for the entry within 2 seasons for Under 23 teams into the football pyramid.  That's all it would have taken.  Idiots like Shaun Harvey believed that getting cosy with the Premier League would see him viewed in favour when it came to getting a job further down the line with them.  Idiots like some non-chairmen felt it would view them in greater esteem higher up the food chain and/or were swayed by that dribble of cash that was dangled down like a poisoned carrot.

There's absolutely no way the Premier League sides want to put their Under 23's through 3 games against similar age groups at less developed academy set-ups.  Because that's what the trophy is.  No way at all, unless they've got an ulterior motive.  Clubs like Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool et al. stockpile kids in their Academy systems.  They don't have enough games available for them all to get competitive action.  Unless these lads get game time it's difficult for them to develop and then be sold on for a big profit (this is a huge market for clubs, Chelsea especially).  The loan market is fine and has worked well previously, but so called elite clubs are becoming more untrusting of it.  1) There's the fear that they loan players out and they'll enjoy the actual feeling of being involved at a first-team set-up and want to stay away from their parent club. 2) They can't control their development if they're on loan at Accrington or Leyton Orient (which I do understand to an extent). 3) There's a risk that their prized assets are shown up in the lower leagues which massively impacts on their value.  

Forgive me but I don't understand your point about a compromise.  Why on earth should there be any sort of compromise?  We don't owe the Premier League anything.  When the motion was put on the table to introduce Under 23 teams at any level in the EFL structure it should have been voted down unconditionally.  

If you trust the same powers that were happy to go behind everyone's back to set up a European Super League on this matter then that's your choice.  But I absolutely don't trust any of the cretins that have pushed this agenda forward and I'll remain firm in my non-support for this competition until the Under 23's are removed from it.  It wasn't the best competition in the world, you're absolutely right.  It was generally poorly attended and of no interest to anyone until the very final stages.  But this isn't about the integrity of a crappy competition that no-one cares for.  It's about nipping this agenda in the bud now rather than letting Under 23 teams creep in and opening a massive can of worms that we'll never be able to put back in.

The compromise part wasn't my personal view, it's a take on being rejected for League entry but offered a place in this competition - a compromise between EFL and Premier League.

My trust is more with the EFL than the elite Clubs or PL. The EFL - I can't imagine - had anything to do with the Euro Super League. I was and still am against that. Your point about pole climbers makes sense and maybe there is scope that whoever agrees the U23 sides into a League Structure opens up job opportunities, we know that happens in many industries. I've never been that deep a thinker or conspiracy theorist to really worry about such things, hence being very trusting.