What the club needs to get back in the league

Not saying i have any name suggestions, just simply previous player references and the skills they brought us last time to get us back in the league last time.

GK - First of all Macca is a more than capable keeper as first choice. Signing another senior keeper of course would keep him on his toes.

RB - think we need to find a RB along the strengths of Richard Tait. Strong, dependable. Can get forward and has some pace.

LB - Dont think Habergham has the legs anymore unfortunately, to give a balance of defence and attack. If we could unearth the next Connor Townsend or Danny Andrew then we are fine here. Left back has arguably been our hardest position to fill in recent seasons so we have to get this right.

CB - I was going to say we need a Toto type signing. A centre with pace and aerial ability, but if Menayese becomes available on a free we should go in for him.  Happy to renew the contract of Hewitt as he is quite cultured and solid at centre half. Waterfall is contracted next term anyway so is a good option for when we play against direct teams with huge forwards and Pollock is a good prospect so sticking with the 4 we have should be ok.

CM - I'd be happy to see Clifton stay on if only as adequate cover next term. What we need is a Disley. A true leader, captain, engine and goalscorer from midfield, add to that a creative eye of a Nolan type and we would have a perfect mix in the middle.

On the wings - We are crying out for some direct wing play and quality, the likes that Nathan Arnold gave us and if we can find a similar option on the left side then the balance is there as superb amunition for the strikers.

ST ..speaking of which, ive previously liked the target supporting the poacher option up top. Something that Bogle/ Amond gave us to a certain degree, Cook/Hannah, Jones/Reddy, Livingstone/Woods to name a few. We already know Lenny is with us next term but feel we still need 2/3 more strikers with unfortunately Hanson not being one. Think next term may be a year too many for him as we simply cannot carry anyone injury wise next year. A much smaller squad with increased quality is needed if we are to bounce straight back.

Hurst has a lot of work to do between now and August and the cull starts soon

So we need to sign a squad players who are just like the promotion winning squad from last time we were down there? Fabulous insight. Roll on when we get promoted again.

Quoted from LH

So we need to sign a squad players who are just like the promotion winning squad from last time we were down there? Fabulous insight. Roll on when we get promoted again.

Im saying that i do not have a vast knowledge of players these days, but i know Hurst does and if he can find players similar to the qualities of the previous lads weve had here listed above, theres no reason why we cant return at the first attempt. Hurst needs to be given the chance to produce HIS squad. Lets rebuild and reset this club and come back stronger

Quoted from LH

So we need to sign a squad players who are just like the promotion winning squad from last time we were down there? Fabulous insight. Roll on when we get promoted again.

That squad only finished fourth. We need better than that.

One hell of a lot better players that we have now  , No more CDAJATL players

McKeown can’t be number 1 if we’ve got ambitions of automatic promotion.

Quoted from ska face

McKeown can’t be number 1 if we’ve got ambitions of automatic promotion.

one of the only things i'll disagree with you on here

He's more than good enough for league 2, and 100% good enough for a promotion team from the NL

Quoted from ska face

McKeown can’t be number 1 if we’ve got ambitions of automatic promotion.

You could argue that for basically every player in every position , we are bottom for a reason no real quality anywhere in the squad

1/ New owners.

2/ A new chairman.

3/ A new board.

4/ At least 22 better quality players than the rubbish we have at the moment.

5/ A new manager.

Simple really !

All they have to do is just wake up in the morning...and oh...they are in the League. Job done.

Quoted from Hagrid

one of the only things i'll disagree with you on here

He's more than good enough for league 2, and 100% good enough for a promotion team from the NL

It’s a hill I’m happy to die on. I really don’t think he’s anything special and probably costs us more points than he wins us over a season. Be interesting to see how many we’ve conceded from goals inside the 6 yard box or from crosses.

I think McKeown will be likely number 1 next season otherwise Hurst would have brought Eastwood back into the team now he’s fit. Hurst obviously doesn’t want to upset McKeown needlessly at the end of this season when he’s 90% likely to be playing next season.

Quoted from Hagrid

one of the only things I'll disagree with you on here

He's more than good enough for league 2, and 100% good enough for a promotion team from the NL

Disagree.  He still doesn't command his area, barely comes out any further than his 6 yard box.  When he parries shots or crosses invariably he pushes the ball towards the penalty spot.  CATCH THE DAMN BALL, I don't get what's happened these days with all keepers trying to punch or parry the ball.  His kicking is also woeful and is not good enough, ok he is a decent shot stopper but has had quite a few member ups this season.  He needs to be more decisive, by going for these crosses and anyone in the way gets flattened, not half hearted attempt at catching or punching the ball.  More than good enough for League 2!, don't think so.

Quoted from Sir Matt Tease

1/ New owners.

2/ A new chairman.

3/ A new board.

4/ At least 22 better quality players than the rubbish we have at the moment.

5/ A new manager.

Simple really !

And the pitch needs re laying. We used to have one of the best playing surfaces in the country - now it's like an extension of the mud flats across the way!

Quoted from Stew0_0

Im saying that i do not have a vast knowledge of players these days, but i know Hurst does and if he can find players similar to the qualities of the previous lads weve had here listed above, theres no reason why we cant return at the first attempt. Hurst needs to be given the chance to produce HIS squad. Lets rebuild and reset this club and come back stronger

How do you know Hurst has a vast knowledge of players?

[quote=78048]1/ New owners.

2/ A new chairman.

3/ A new board.

4/ At least 22 better quality players than the rubbish we have at the moment.

5/ A new manager.

Simple really !


Just out of interest Sir Matt, and I know I have asked you this several times, who would you have had as a manager that a) was available and/or a realistic target
given our circumstances and is that different to who you would have now?

Quoted from arryarryarry

How do you Hurst has a vast knowledge of players?

The mans managed at every level from the northern counties east league right up to the championship. You dont manage that without knowing about a player or two

On the McKeown point....

There's never a happy medium with him.  He tends, especially last few years, to either be amazing or a disaster.

He was very good for us in the Conference before but since coming back into the league we've seen two 'keepers who have offered us a glimpse of what we could have, or perhaps the standard in this league.

Henderson (unrealistic) and then Eastwood (perhaps more realistic).  

Just to throw this one in there.  Ben Killip was just ok when he was here.  He got his chance when McKeown had an injury and I thought he looked decent if not amazing.  He dropped a couple of howlers which ultimately marked his card but his overall game was alright.  But largely we needed and rightly wanted better, even as a back-up.  Killip is now first choice 'keeper at Hartlepool who are top of the Conference.

Was Killip any better than McKeown at this level?  Probably not.  So it's maybe fair to argue that McKeown would still be very good at Conference level.

What I would say though is that I think overall he's gone backwards year on year since we've returned to the league.  No doubting he's still got the ability to pull off the odd wonder wave, which he definitely has done a few since returning to the side. But he doesn't command his area well enough, he doesn't come off his line anywhere near quick enough for my liking and his distribution is poor.  The role of a goalkeeper has changed quite dramatically in the time that McKeown has been here and be it himself or through a lack of coaching, he hasn't really adapted.

I wouldn't be overly disappointed if he was our first choice next season, but then I do think we could and probably should look for someone different.  I've absolutely no idea on Eastwood's situation and likelihood of signing for us, but he's probably more of the standard we should aspire to.  

We need a squad sorted before pre-season or very close to it and no waiting for “maybes”. Hit the ground running and fit and organised from Day One.

I have no idea which players Hurst rates apart from LJL and possibly McKeown so pointless for me to second guess comings and goings. But anyone could see we do need at least one striker who can do better than hit the bar from 6 yards with an open goal.

On the whole, Macca is a decent keeper, not the best as Eastwood showed. You also have to consider the dross that was in front of him under the teams Holloway put out. Eastwood may have performed a bit better under Holloway but not much better than Macc did.

You have to think about the effect on his confidence following his spat with Holloway and the way Holloway dealt with it. His confidence was shot and needed a break to restore it, which the last few games have shown.

Like I said he's not the best but would be ok in the NL.

Quoted from diehardmariner

On the McKeown point....

There's never a happy medium with him.  He tends, especially last few years, to either be amazing or a disaster.

He was very good for us in the Conference before but since coming back into the league we've seen two 'keepers who have offered us a glimpse of what we could have, or perhaps the standard in this league.

Henderson (unrealistic) and then Eastwood (perhaps more realistic).  

Just to throw this one in there.  Ben Killip was just ok when he was here.  He got his chance when McKeown had an injury and I thought he looked decent if not amazing.  He dropped a couple of howlers which ultimately marked his card but his overall game was alright.  But largely we needed and rightly wanted better, even as a back-up.  Killip is now first choice 'keeper at Hartlepool who are top of the Conference.

Was Killip any better than McKeown at this level?  Probably not.  So it's maybe fair to argue that McKeown would still be very good at Conference level.

What I would say though is that I think overall he's gone backwards year on year since we've returned to the league.  No doubting he's still got the ability to pull off the odd wonder wave, which he definitely has done a few since returning to the side. But he doesn't command his area well enough, he doesn't come off his line anywhere near quick enough for my liking and his distribution is poor.  The role of a goalkeeper has changed quite dramatically in the time that McKeown has been here and be it himself or through a lack of coaching, he hasn't really adapted.

I wouldn't be overly disappointed if he was our first choice next season, but then I do think we could and probably should look for someone different.  I've absolutely no idea on Eastwood's situation and likelihood of signing for us, but he's probably more of the standard we should aspire to.  

Totally agree with your post...add the fact that Macca is up their with the biggest earners at the club since he signed his new deal and then the question of value for money comes into play. This said a lot of our current squad earn far more than they produce. UTM

Quoted from come_on_town

Totally agree with your post...add the fact that Macca is up their with the biggest earners at the club since he signed his new deal and then the question of value for money comes into play. This said a lot of our current squad earn far more than they produce. UTM

I believe the wholesale price of peanuts has risen since with seasons recruitments!

A motivational inspirational manager and players with a real winning mentality with the facilities and ifrastructure behind them.

One thing is for sure.
NEVER make your goalie captain of the team.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see PH go after Abu Ogogo again. Not been playing at Bristol Rovers and out of contract in the summer. Wasn’t he captain of Shrewsbury under Hurst?

Quoted from Stew0_0

The mans managed at every level from the northern counties east league right up to the championship. You dont manage that without knowing about a player or two

He hasn't managed at Northern counties level for over 10 years and National League level for over 5 years.

As for championship level, considering his record there best to gloss over that.

As for the rest of his managerial career and knowledge of players that probably applies to the vast majority of current EFL managers and probably those out of work.

Quoted from Azimuth

A motivational inspirational manager and players with a real winning mentality with the facilities and ifrastructure behind them.

you know we are non league dont you.......

jesus christ

Hursty builds a squad of pros with team spirit, you wont find a player who has a bad word to say about him

Quoted from Hagrid

you know we are non league dont you.......

jesus christ

Hursty builds a squad of pros with team spirit, you wont find a player who has a bad word to say about him

Maybe we should give Jose a bell?  

Quoted from Hagrid

you know we are non league dont you.......

jesus christ

Hursty builds a squad of pros with team spirit, you wont find a player who has a bad word to say about him

He may be a nice man but he is utterly uninspiring and tactically inept, he has long since been found out by just about every opposition he faces.
He record since shrewsbury has been worse than useless.
Team spirit, dont make me laugh, we witnessed what happened on the pitch with the headbutt.

As for your Jesus Christ comment, yes I am well aware of what league we are in and where we are going, are our ambitions so low that we think tbis is acceptable, other arguably smaller clubs achieve much much more and have managers able to adapt and motivate.
Mark my words sticking with Hurst will get us nowhere fast.

A squad of 22/23 players all better then what we have at the moment, meaning they would be capable of finishing minimum mid table of league 2, that’s the standard required to finish top 3 of the conference.

Quoted from chipsandgravy

[quote=78048]1/ New owners.

2/ A new chairman.

3/ A new board.

4/ At least 22 better quality players than the rubbish we have at the moment.

5/ A new manager.

Simple really !


Just out of interest Sir Matt, and I know I have asked you this several times, who would you have had as a manager that a) was available and/or a realistic target
given our circumstances and is that different to who you would have now?

I do not know who was available at the time or who would be interested. However I would advertise the position and run a full in depth interview process instead of just appointing an ex manager, (easy option).

There are always plenty of managers seeking employment and I'm sure that this club could attract a decent manager, if the club are prepared to back him and not just try to do everything on the cheap !

Hope this answers your query.

I remember the general level of goalkeeping in the Conference. McKeown is more than fine as long as we have a decent second keeper, as it's been shown again and again he needs to be pushed to bring the best out of him.

Quoted from immariner

I remember the general level of goalkeeping in the Conference. McKeown is more than fine as long as we have a decent second keeper, as it's been shown again and again he needs to be pushed to bring the best out of him.

I remember 6 years in the conference and never being in contention for promotion once despite usually scoring shed loads.

We shouldn’t need to pay for a really good number 2 just to encourage McKeown not to go off the boil, and to don the gloves after he has his annual bad month.

Quoted from geir

One thing is for sure.
NEVER make your goalie captain of the team.

Unless they’re called Dino or Hugo.

Quoted from ska face

I remember 6 years in the conference and never being in contention for promotion once despite usually scoring shed loads.

We made the play-offs 4 years in a row!

Quoted from Azimuth

He may be a nice man but he is utterly uninspiring and tactically inept, he has long since been found out by just about every opposition he faces.
He record since shrewsbury has been worse than useless.
Team spirit, dont make me laugh, we witnessed what happened on the pitch with the headbutt.

As for your Jesus Christ comment, yes I am well aware of what league we are in and where we are going, are our ambitions so low that we think tbis is acceptable, other arguably smaller clubs achieve much much more and have managers able to adapt and motivate.
Mark my words sticking with Hurst will get us nowhere fast.

One thing Hurst does do is nip things in the bud. They have both been dealt with and won't play again. The hard working and honest people will appreciate that.

Quoted from ska face

I remember 6 years in the conference and never being in contention for promotion once despite usually scoring shed loads.

We shouldn’t need to pay for a really good number 2 just to encourage McKeown not to go off the boil, and to don the gloves after he has his annual bad month.

So the rest of those squads were good enough to see us promoted automatically but McKeown prevented that because he occasionally had a bad patch, like every player does? Na.

Quoted from Sir Matt Tease

I do not know who was available at the time or who would be interested. However I would advertise the position and run a full in depth interview process instead of just appointing an ex manager, (easy option).

There are always plenty of managers seeking employment and I'm sure that this club could attract a decent manager, if the club are prepared to back him and not just try to do everything on the cheap !

Hope this answers your query.

No....again!!!

Quoted from chipsandgravy

[quote=78048]1/ New owners.

2/ A new chairman.

3/ A new board.

4/ At least 22 better quality players than the rubbish we have at the moment.

5/ A new manager.

Simple really !


Just out of interest Sir Matt, and I know I have asked you this several times, who would you have had as a manager that a) was available and/or a realistic target
given our circumstances and is that different to who you would have now?

Did the club bother checking what managers were available.

Hurst was a shoo-in

Quoted from Stew0_0

Not saying i have any name suggestions, just simply previous player references and the skills they brought us last time to get us back in the league last time.

GK - First of all Macca is a more than capable keeper as first choice. Signing another senior keeper of course would keep him on his toes.

RB - think we need to find a RB along the strengths of Richard Tait. Strong, dependable. Can get forward and has some pace.

LB - Dont think Habergham has the legs anymore unfortunately, to give a balance of defence and attack. If we could unearth the next Connor Townsend or Danny Andrew then we are fine here. Left back has arguably been our hardest position to fill in recent seasons so we have to get this right.

CB - I was going to say we need a Toto type signing. A centre with pace and aerial ability, but if Menayese becomes available on a free we should go in for him.  Happy to renew the contract of Hewitt as he is quite cultured and solid at centre half. Waterfall is contracted next term anyway so is a good option for when we play against direct teams with huge forwards and Pollock is a good prospect so sticking with the 4 we have should be ok.

CM - I'd be happy to see Clifton stay on if only as adequate cover next term. What we need is a Disley. A true leader, captain, engine and goalscorer from midfield, add to that a creative eye of a Nolan type and we would have a perfect mix in the middle.

On the wings - We are crying out for some direct wing play and quality, the likes that Nathan Arnold gave us and if we can find a similar option on the left side then the balance is there as superb amunition for the strikers.

ST ..speaking of which, ive previously liked the target supporting the poacher option up top. Something that Bogle/ Amond gave us to a certain degree, Cook/Hannah, Jones/Reddy, Livingstone/Woods to name a few. We already know Lenny is with us next term but feel we still need 2/3 more strikers with unfortunately Hanson not being one. Think next term may be a year too many for him as we simply cannot carry anyone injury wise next year. A much smaller squad with increased quality is needed if we are to bounce straight back.

Hurst has a lot of work to do between now and August and the cull starts soon

God you’re not asking for much!! Best of luck with that one. Mind you despite me taking the urine you are 100% correct. #UTM

As Crawley, Fleetwood and Luton demonstrated last time we were down there, you need to spend big on good players to get out.

We need at least four players who are in their prime, say late twenties, currently holding their own in either a top L2 or mid L1 outfit.

They will not come cheap, but they will come if you pay them well enough.

My shopping list would be two strong midfielders, a striker who scored regularly, and a commanding CB. Bring those in as a nucleus and some of our existing players such a Wright, Spokes, and Clifton can assist in various games to varying degrees.  

But relying on kids, crocks and has beens which seems to have been what to expect under Fenty will condemn us to years in the NL. Thankfully I believe the new owners are smarter than that.

You don't need world beaters to win the National League. You need a team, playing as a team, well organised and playing for each other, with a core of regulars believing in what the manager is doing.

When Lincoln won it, they had Matt Rhead as top scorer with 15 goals and Nathan Arnold with 12.

They had a back 5 containing Farman, Harbergham, Waterfall and Bradley Wood. Hardly world beaters.

They got on a roll and became unstoppable, winning many games at the death with late goals because they expected to win and were full of confidence. Their cup runs took on a life of their own.

They clearly had a good manager too who had proved with Braintree that he could get results with hard working players working to a plan.

Can Hurst replicate this quickly? I think he could but time will tell. He's done it before and got the better of the Cowleys along the way.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Unless they’re called Dino or Hugo.

Exactly.

What do we need - stability and time. I’d give Hurst two seasons at least. Any less and we’re looking at another huge turnover of players and taking a risk on someone else. My worry is the usual suspects will be calling for his head if we’re not top by October. Thankfully I get the impression the new owners can see the big picture and won’t make panicky decisions.

Don't know if it's been mentioned elsewhere but I think there are now 6 teams in the National League play offs. We should be able to at least make the top seven I would have thought.

Quoted from Vance Warner

What do we need - stability and time. I’d give Hurst two seasons at least. Any less and we’re looking at another huge turnover of players and taking a risk on someone else. My worry is the usual suspects will be calling for his head if we’re not top by October. Thankfully I get the impression the new owners can see the big picture and won’t make panicky decisions.

FFS !

Why not give him a ten year contract ?

That might just be long enough to get us promoted !

Quoted from Vance Warner

What do we need - stability and time. I’d give Hurst two seasons at least. Any less and we’re looking at another huge turnover of players and taking a risk on someone else. My worry is the usual suspects will be calling for his head if we’re not top by October. Thankfully I get the impression the new owners can see the big picture and won’t make panicky decisions.

I completely agree with you.

The problem is that the one automatic promotion place leaves little margin for error.

I am a Hurst sycophant but I would fancy him to get us up to League 1 (if by miracle we stayed up) in 2 years over getting us up from the NL in two years.

Quoted from jimgtfc

Wouldn’t be surprised to see PH go after Abu Ogogo again. Not been playing at Bristol Rovers and out of contract in the summer. Wasn’t he captain of Shrewsbury under Hurst?

good call. Hurst liked him at sHrews
https://www.shropshirestar.com.....ury-town-ingredient/

and he is out of contract this summer
i wouldn't be surprised if Alex Rodman was also on his list

Quoted from Sir Matt Tease

FFS !

Why not give him a ten year contract ?

That might just be long enough to get us promoted !

Clearly it doesn’t take ten years to build a promotion squad but it does take at least two in most cases. Can’t believe after our experience last time that anyone expects us to p1ss the conference when only 2 teams go up each year. Some very short memories about how competitive the league is.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

We need a squad sorted before pre-season or very close to it and no waiting for “maybes”. Hit the ground running and fit and organised from Day One.

I have no idea which players Hurst rates apart from LJL and possibly McKeown so pointless for me to second guess comings and goings. But anyone could see we do need at least one striker who can do better than hit the bar from 6 yards with an open goal.

Exactly. I think the last time we were close to doing that was the season we went up.

Of course we could still stay up  
[img]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71eC5jly1IL._SX342_.jpg[/img]

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.c.....o-relegation-5331881

Quoted from Vance Warner

Clearly it doesn’t take ten years to build a promotion squad but it does take at least two in most cases. Can’t believe after our experience last time that anyone expects us to p1ss the conference when only 2 teams go up each year. Some very short memories about how competitive the league is.

Clearly the Principal Funder's "competitive" budget(s) year on year didn't really work in our favour either

I'm on the side of stability and giving Hurst the correct tools to do the job...
For all those calling for his head, I'd go no further than look at Norwich.
Daniel Farke got it completely wrong in the premier and fans were out in force calling for change, same fans now have egg firmly splattered all over their Norfolk faces.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

I'm on the side of stability and giving Hurst the correct tools to do the job...
For all those calling for his head, I'd go no further than look at Norwich.
Daniel Farke got it completely wrong in the premier and fans were out in force calling for change, same fans now have egg firmly splattered all over their Norfolk faces.

Bit like Grant McCann at Hull.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Bit like Grant McCann at Hull.

Absolutely, managers have levels, I'm expecting Hurst to do well in the NL and probably get us back up, what I would say though if he does and we start to struggle he has to be gone asap.

Hurst has got next season at least then he goes into his rolling contract.

I think he deserves at least two attempts to get us up.

I don't like this changing of managers every year or so.

Most successful managers had a few years getting it right.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

I'm on the side of stability and giving Hurst the correct tools to do the job...
For all those calling for his head, I'd go no further than look at Norwich.
Daniel Farke got it completely wrong in the premier and fans were out in force calling for change, same fans now have egg firmly splattered all over their Norfolk faces.

We kept Neil Woods and where did that get us?

Quoted from grimsby pete

Hurst has got next season at least then he goes into his rolling contract.

I think he deserves at least two attempts to get us up.

I don't like this changing of managers every year or so.

Most successful managers had a few years getting it right.

Fergy did alright in the end!

Quoted from arryarryarry

We kept Neil Woods and where did that get us?

Give it up, Woods had no managerial experience to talk about when we went down last time. It's a dud argument.
It's obvious you don't rate Hurst but chucking him under the bus isn't getting us out of of non league
The guy knows how to build a team, that's not up for debate, just hoping he builds a team capable of at least pushing for top spot rather than the dreaded play offs this time

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Give it up, Woods had no managerial experience to talk about when we went down last time. It's a dud argument.
It's obvious you don't rate Hurst but chucking him under the bus isn't getting us out of of non league
The guy knows how to build a team, that's not up for debate, just hoping he builds a team capable of at least pushing for top spot rather than the dreaded play offs this time

Even with the likes of Bogle, Amond, Disley, Arnold and Nolan we couldn't threaten top spot and only made it to the final through a daft penalty given away by the mighty Braintree.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Even with the likes of Bogle, Amond, Disley, Arnold and Nolan we couldn't threaten top spot and only made it to the final through a daft penalty given away by the mighty Braintree.

And we’d have been up a year earlier if not for a terrible referree

The Braintree Pen point is stupid , we got a penalty... every team gets them, its like saying if we didnt score 3 in the final we wouldnt have won

Quoted from arryarryarry

Even with the likes of Bogle, Amond, Disley, Arnold and Nolan we couldn't threaten top spot and only made it to the final through a daft penalty given away by the mighty Braintree.

You can't have it both ways. Who brought in those 5 quality players?

Quoted from arryarryarry

Even with the likes of Bogle, Amond, Disley, Arnold and Nolan we couldn't threaten top spot and only made it to the final through a daft penalty given away by the mighty Braintree.

I think this leads to one of the biggest points in all this thread, while we were a decent side with decent individuals we missed one big thing, something which I dont think has changed to this day ,  a manager who understands that not losing isnt as valuable as winning.  
The Parslow point is something that we all understand and can refer to as a stand out illustration, Waterfall this season being similar but through most campaigns under Hurst it always felt that first half games were generally tight , we would get a goal.. then sit off....and wait.
Going for the jugular wasnt something that I ever felt we did, the odd games against shite opposition but when bigger games came along we seemed to play for a point.

It is very difficult (of course) to finish top and get automatic promotion.   There is no room for ever.

At least next season there are 6 play-off places (as well).

Quoted from smokey111

You can't have it both ways. Who brought in those 5 quality players?

The same person that signed that tosser Payne.

We didn't threaten winning the League in any of the seasons he was in charge.

Just pointing that simple fact out to those suggesting we need to win the League.

Quoted from moosey_club

I think this leads to one of the biggest points in all this thread, while we were a decent side with decent individuals we missed one big thing, something which I dont think has changed to this day ,  a manager who understands that not losing isnt as valuable as winning.  
The Parslow point is something that we all understand and can refer to as a stand out illustration, Waterfall this season being similar but through most campaigns under Hurst it always felt that first half games were generally tight , we would get a goal.. then sit off....and wait.
Going for the jugular wasnt something that I ever felt we did, the odd games against shite opposition but when bigger games came along we seemed to play for a point.

An excellent summary of Paul Hurst' mentality and is the reason we have thrown so many single goal leads away in the final minutes of games costing us a valuable two points every time.

Regardless of fan’s opinion on Hurst he’s here for next season .
What the club needs is the total unified support of all the fans . Simple as that .

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Regardless of fan’s opinion on Hurst he’s here for next season .
What the club needs is the total unified support of all the fans . Simple as that .

Totally agree for the first time in 18 years we have an opportunity to really progress I hope we can embrace it

We’ve got our biggest wish in new owners . Next season has to be considered the rebirth of our club .

We are cut adrift at the very bottom of the football league. We need new everything.

I think anyone who wants rid of Hurst needs there head examining, he's clearly by a distance the best available manager to us. He got us promoted last time with mid table budgets, did an amazing job at Shrewsbury. And while we've been relegated - we have played much better since he has got better.

I hope he gets rid of most of the players - leave (excluding kids) 4 or 5 pros and start a fresh with hungry players, clearly there are problems with this squad of players. Get rid of em and start again.

I mean there’s an argument that he should never have been allowed to leave in the first place.

I know people like to cry becauee he dared to speak the truth and was then misquoted and he upset a handful of precious little souls with his ear cupping but he will be up there with Buckley as a manger who got us promoted.

Had Fenty not been a girl private then perhaps Hurst wouldn’t have had his head turned as easily...would that team he assembled in the wake of a summer of penny pinching stayed the pace? May be not but it had character and was winning games...we had something to build on.

Sadly, as with everything at town under Fenty it was done on the cheap and we learned absolutely no lessons from spending 6 years in non league...

Quoted from horsforthmariner

I think anyone who wants rid of Hurst needs there head examining, he's clearly by a distance the best available manager to us. He got us promoted last time with mid table budgets, did an amazing job at Shrewsbury. And while we've been relegated - we have played much better since he has got better.

I hope he gets rid of most of the players - leave (excluding kids) 4 or 5 pros and start a fresh with hungry players, clearly there are problems with this squad of players. Get rid of em and start again.

Why would anyone questioning Hurst's tenure need their head examining ?

When he took over we were outside of the drop zone 3 points above the relegation places. We are now 9 points from safety with 4 games left.

Any other manager with this record would be sacked !

P    W    D    L    F    A     Pts
21   3     8    10  14-27    17

That's 17 points out of a possible 63 !

As you rightly say the football has improved slightly, but would you be happy playing a little bit better but still not winning ? And he has had a transfer window in which to bring in his preferred players !

If you are happy with this then I'm afraid it's YOU who needs your head examined !

Quoted from horsforthmariner

I think anyone who wants rid of Hurst needs there head examining, he's clearly by a distance the best available manager to us. He got us promoted last time with mid table budgets, did an amazing job at Shrewsbury. And while we've been relegated - we have played much better since he has got better.

I hope he gets rid of most of the players - leave (excluding kids) 4 or 5 pros and start a fresh with hungry players, clearly there are problems with this squad of players. Get rid of em and start again.

If he is assured of a job by the new owners come what may then Hurst is on a win-win. But that does not absolve him from blame in my book. Yes, he inherited poor players with some crap attitudes but as Sir Matt shows, the results speak for themselves. He will not have a miracle budget but I would hate to see that used as an excuse for mediocrity and a mid table position. We need to be well placed in the play-off spots by Christmas or Hurst needs to go. Never mind giving him more time, we tried that before and he took years.

To say PH bought in his prefered players in a January window is plain stupid. the amount of players available in January is miniscule compared to the summer window. We do have a better squad now than we had at christmas or do you believe Taylor, Preston, Morton etc would improve us now?
Hurst got what he could that was available (you dont tend to find a 30 goal a season striker up for grabs in Jan for instance)

Quoted from StaffsMariner

To say PH bought in his prefered players in a January window is plain stupid. the amount of players available in January is miniscule compared to the summer window. We do have a better squad now than we had at christmas or do you believe Taylor, Preston, Morton etc would improve us now?
Hurst got what he could that was available (you dont tend to find a 30 goal a season striker up for grabs in Jan for instance)

So what you are saying is, the players that Hurst brought in during the window he did not want ?

And you say I'm plain stupid !!!!!!

No. I'm saying thats the best he could get when we needed so many bringing in.

Quoted from Sir Matt Tease

So what you are saying is, the players that Hurst brought in during the window he did not want ?

And you say I'm plain stupid !!!!!!

urrrh, i think you are being plain stupid.
it's obvious that the players available in January is a miniscule amount compared to the size of the summer market. So the supply is hugely diminished, but the demand is still the same - all 92 clubs will be looking to make 1 or 2 signings at least. Therefore when supply outstrips demand the available players will obviously have a lot more choice, and a side bottom of the 92 is going to be at the bottom of their list of options. Therefore it's highly unlikely that the players Hurst brought in will have been at the top of his wish list. Those at the top were no doubt not available, and then others will have chosen to move elsewhere. He is therefore reduced to making the most of a bad job

Quoted from StaffsMariner

We do have a better squad now than we had at christmas

If we have a better squad now than pre Christmas, how come the results & PPG are worse?

Any other manager with that record would have been shown the door.  

Quoted from forza ivano

urrrh, i think you are being plain stupid.
it's obvious that the players available in January is a miniscule amount compared to the size of the summer market. So the supply is hugely diminished, but the demand is still the same - all 92 clubs will be looking to make 1 or 2 signings at least. Therefore when supply outstrips demand the available players will obviously have a lot more choice, and a side bottom of the 92 is going to be at the bottom of their list of options. Therefore it's highly unlikely that the players Hurst brought in will have been at the top of his wish list. Those at the top were no doubt not available, and then others will have chosen to move elsewhere. He is therefore reduced to making the most of a bad job

So what you are saying is, because we are 92nd we will only ever be able to buy excrement players ?

Quoted from Sir Matt Tease

So what you are saying is, because we are 92nd we will only ever be able to buy excrement players ?

Yep....no player who's half decent wants to be in a relegation scrap does he?...
On the other foot, if we're scrapping for promotion out of non league you've more chance of signing half decent players

Quoted from Quagmire

If we have a better squad now than pre Christmas, how come the results & PPG are worse?

Any other manager with that record would have been shown the door.  

I'd say thsts a definitive yes the squad we have now is better than the one Holloway assembled.

That ppg comparison that has been  spat out includes half a dozen games before Hurst managed to get the new players through the door and excludes the interim games under Ben Davies.

Quoted from forza ivano

urrrh, i think you are being plain stupid.
it's obvious that the players available in January is a miniscule amount compared to the size of the summer market. So the supply is hugely diminished, but the demand is still the same - all 92 clubs will be looking to make 1 or 2 signings at least. Therefore when supply outstrips demand the available players will obviously have a lot more choice, and a side bottom of the 92 is going to be at the bottom of their list of options. Therefore it's highly unlikely that the players Hurst brought in will have been at the top of his wish list. Those at the top were no doubt not available, and then others will have chosen to move elsewhere. He is therefore reduced to making the most of a bad job

Sometimes Forza you write a load of crap. my opinion, but you've nailed it on the button. Those who disagree should read what the Exeter manager said ' no players available in the January transfer window'

Quoted from DB

Sometimes Forza you write a load of crap. my opinion, but you've nailed it on the button. Those who disagree should read what the Exeter manager said ' no players available in the January transfer window'

I think that's a big indicator. A club like Exeter who are doing well and chomping at the play-offs, struggled to get players in, where did that leave Grimsby?
Which brings us back to before the season started, what the hell were we doing?

Quoted from Plankton

I think that's a big indicator. A club like Exeter who are doing well and chomping at the play-offs, struggled to get players in, where did that leave Grimsby?
Which brings us back to before the season started, what the hell were we doing?

Totally agree with the final line, we were dead in the water before we kicked a ball, as our one trick one track approach was to get loads of cheap bodies in to the building based on the smug assertion that the season would either not start or be cancelled within weeks if it did due to Covid, and then Fenty and Holloway could claim what a financial masterstroke we had pulled off
Once it became obvious that the League was going to carry on we were so far of the pace in terms of ability and fitness we couldn’t compete seriously  

Quoted from lee65

Totally agree with the final line, we were dead in the water before we kicked a ball, as our one trick one track approach was to get loads of cheap bodies in to the building based on the smug assertion that the season would either not start or be cancelled within weeks if it did due to Covid, and then Fenty and Holloway could claim what a financial masterstroke we had pulled off
Once it became obvious that the League was going to carry on we were so far of the pace in terms of ability and fitness we couldn’t compete seriously  

I'm struggling to understand Fenty & co's mindset. Why would they think the season wouldn't continue, football was the only populist thing that the government was keen to keep going, it'd be extremely foolish to think it wouldn't continue.

Quoted from Azimuth

An excellent summary of Paul Hurst' mentality and is the reason we have thrown so many single goal leads away in the final minutes of games costing us a valuable two points every time.

A total myth that. Put up some stats a while ago that showed we very rarely let a lead slip in his first spell. This time there’s been a few but we also rescued a late point at Mansfield and I don’t remember anyone suggesting that was down to our tactics

Quoted from Vance Warner

A total myth that. Put up some stats a while ago that showed we very rarely let a lead slip in his first spell. This time there’s been a few but we also rescued a late point at Mansfield and I don’t remember anyone suggesting that was down to our tactics

I'm really bored and boring so looked through the league results from our promotion winning season and if anything the reverse is more true and we gained more draws from losing positions than we got from winning positions. There were 10 score draws in the league that season and in 4 of them we were winning first, in 6 we were losing first. Of the games where we winning first only one of them (Kidderminster away) was a late equaliser.

Of the games where we were losing and fought back to get a point, Chester away we got a very late equaliser, Lincoln away we did it with 10 men and should have won, Torquay at home we were losing by two  and Guiseley away we were losing twice but still got a draw.

Hurst has his faults but it's a myth to claim he regularly gives away late equalisers. This season it's happened a couple of times but I would argue some of that can be attributed to the squad getting a revamp in January and most of those players weren't fully up to speed as they hadn't been playing regularly.