Jason's Latest

Quoted from MarinerMal

Interesting to note that table from 100 years ago is mainly made up of Northern and Midlands teams with a sprinkling of London teams.

Compare that with today's Premier League table which is mainly Midlands and Southern team with the odd sprinkling of Northern teams.

Most likely down to the heavy industry in the North 100 years ago, now most of the money is all congregated in and around London.

Still, at least we have Boris's 'levelling up' campaign to even that out somewhat... oh wait!

It’s not really the odd sprinkling though is it? Liverpool, Everton, Man City, Man United, Newcastle, Burnley and Sheffield United are all northern teams.

It's just population centres, really.

Liverpool/Everton can both co-exist because there aren't really any other clubs in the Merseyside area (Tranmere aside, I suppose). Sheffield has its support split between two teams and there are loads of other reasonably-sized local teams in South Yorkshire. Leeds probably ought to do better, although they do also do a fair bit of rugby. Bratfud as much rugby as football. Newcastle, only club in the area (drawing fans from most of Northumberland and Durham). Birmingham split between two clubs with other biggish clubs in the area. Nottingham split between two clubs. Two big clubs in Manchester but the surrounding towns have very much smaller teams.

Burnley are a notable exception at the moment, but it won't be long before they are back out of the PL, I'd have thought.

It's mostly just about catchment and local competition which is always going to limit us as most of our surroundings are water!

Quoted from Maringer

It's just population centres, really.

Liverpool/Everton can both co-exist because there aren't really any other clubs in the Merseyside area (Tranmere aside, I suppose). Sheffield has its support split between two teams and there are loads of other reasonably-sized local teams in South Yorkshire. Leeds probably ought to do better, although they do also do a fair bit of rugby. Bratfud as much rugby as football. Newcastle, only club in the area (drawing fans from most of Northumberland and Durham). Birmingham split between two clubs with other biggish clubs in the area. Nottingham split between two clubs. Two big clubs in Manchester but the surrounding towns have very much smaller teams.

Burnley are a notable exception at the moment, but it won't be long before they are back out of the PL, I'd have thought.

It's mostly just about catchment and local competition which is always going to limit us as most of our surroundings are water!

Because football was created so long ago there are also far too many teams in London than there would be if it were invented today. Really, some of them should have consolidated as other Victorian businesses have through mergers. I think there are about 15 professional football teams in London (maybe a few more if you include non-league). Compare that with Paris, or the USA cities. I think PSG wasn't created until the 1970s and the US clubs are even newer. We have inherited our football sides and cricket counties from the Victorians. Because of the tradition of fan bases, any attempt at merger is greeted with horror.

https://www.myfootygrounds.co.uk/AreaMap.asp?view=ENGLAND

This is a map of all clubs and you can see when zooming in/out the clubs around them (I don't think it shows below LG2).

Quoted from GrimRob

Because football was created so long ago there are also far too many teams in London than there would be if it were invented today. Really, some of them should have consolidated as other Victorian businesses have through mergers. I think there are about 15 professional football teams in London (maybe a few more if you include non-league). Compare that with Paris, or the USA cities. I think PSG wasn't created until the 1970s and the US clubs are even newer. We have inherited our football sides and cricket counties from the Victorians. Because of the tradition of fan bases, any attempt at merger is greeted with horror.

Don’t really get that comment about London having to many teams . City of 8/9m so 650k population per club matches any other city in the UK. 400-500k combined average gates at those clubs. If we were like Paris one main club how do you get them all into the
Going further down the League there has been a steady loss of EFL teams in traditional old Northern working class towns with steady or declining populations generally being replaced by teams in more affluent southern towns who have struggled to build up a supporter base because of their lack of history
The old Victorian structure is the bedrock of us having such a succesful league structure.

Yeah, London is fundamentally a city state in all but name. So many people live down there that there are plenty of fans for most of the teams, even with Arsenal and Spurs being the two biggest clubs by some distance these days.

We do have masses of professional clubs and no other European country can really compete with the number which we have (Turkey aside, perhaps). Even in countries like Italy, Germany, Spain and France, the third tier clubs aren't anything as like as substantial as ours. I suppose it is because consolidation or regions had really taken place a lot more before most of the clubs really became established in the early 20th century. Most of ours had been on the go for decades by then.

Quoted from Maringer

Yeah, London is fundamentally a city state in all but name. So many people live down there that there are plenty of fans for most of the teams, even with Arsenal and Spurs being the two biggest clubs by some distance these days.

We do have masses of professional clubs and no other European country can really compete with the number which we have (Turkey aside, perhaps). Even in countries like Italy, Germany, Spain and France, the third tier clubs aren't anything as like as substantial as ours. I suppose it is because consolidation or regions had really taken place a lot more before most of the clubs really became established in the early 20th century. Most of ours had been on the go for decades by then.

Whilst Grimsby is my team I also follow Tottenham and went down to the Brentford game on Wednesday night with my son (£85 a bleeding ticket!!). We caught the 11.33pm train to Leeds home and it was rammed with not enough seats for the passengers with hundreds of Spurs fans on. Whilst a good many alighted at Peterborough I was shocked how many had travelled down from the Newark and Yorkshire areas. Frightening what some of them must have paid in total to attend but demonstrates how disperse a clubs fan base actually is.

Quoted from mariner91

It’s not really the odd sprinkling though is it? Liverpool, Everton, Man City, Man United, Newcastle, Burnley and Sheffield United are all northern teams.

Well there are 7 so probably 'the odd sprinkly' wasn't as accurate as I could have been. However, we could lose 3 of them at the end of the season, leaving just 4 with perhaps only Leeds with a fair chance of replacing one of them as a northern team.

When you compare it to 100 years ago there were 12 teams that made up over half of the League...
Huddersfield, Sunderland, Bolton, Sheff Utd, Blackburn, Newcastle, Man City, Liverpool, Everton, Burnley, Prestion, Middlesborough.

Middleborough were relegated along with Chelsea but were replaced by Leeds United and.... wait for it... Bury!

So the next season had 13 northern teams. So my point about a power shift to the south still stands. Still it wasn't meant as a stunning revelation, just an observation.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Don’t really get that comment about London having to many teams . City of 8/9m so 650k population per club matches any other city in the UK. 400-500k combined average gates at those clubs. If we were like Paris one main club how do you get them all into the
Going further down the League there has been a steady loss of EFL teams in traditional old Northern working class towns with steady or declining populations generally being replaced by teams in more affluent southern towns who have struggled to build up a supporter base because of their lack of history
The old Victorian structure is the bedrock of us having such a succesful league structure.

Considering how much bigger than other cities London is, it should dominate football but rarely has as the talent and support is spread across the capital. If you look at newer sports like basketball/ice hockey/american sports they generally have a team called London. They might have other teams from the home counties as well but there is a designated London team. I suspect that's what football would be like if it was invented today. I am quite happy with the way things are, pleased that the provinces dominate. I wish our neck of the woods punched at a higher weight mind but it might again one day.

Quoted from Azimuth

Does this mean that B Corp isnt particularly relevent or useful in the Football "industry"?
I ask because Jason talks about the practice of selling players against their will, and the transfer of contracts for fees, I would assume this goes against the grain of everything B Corp status stands for.

Hit the nail on the head there, b corp probably great if your selling insurance nt so great when people's livelihoods are on the line