Move or redevelop

Long time lurker, just thought I could add something to the ongoing move or redevelop discussion.

It’s always an interesting discussion on whether to redevelop or move to a new purpose built ground. The cost of knocking down an old stand and building a new one can often be the same as building a new ground.

Briefly…..

Every football fan hates the type of stadium that has all sides identical but the cost savings are enormous. Design one stand and just build it four times. Quick to construct, usually built in an open area where construction equipment can easily get into and around the stadium. The pitch is always the last thing to get done so construction can take place from both inside and outside the stadium. Built with the infrastructure to accommodate this construction (water supply, sewage lines, electricity) and because it’s in an open area it’s possible to build 24 hours a day.

Typically to redevelop just one existing stand, lets say a main stand with offices, changing rooms, meeting rooms, bathrooms, catering and bar facilities etc. works out at just about the same as constructing a new ground. But it also creates many knock on issues. This new stand must comply to all the latest building and accessibility codes. This means larger and more bathrooms, wider stairways between rows of seating, wider exit requirements etc. so if you knock down a stand that holds 4000 people and replace it with a new 4000 seater stand will have to be bigger than the one it replaced. If it runs goal line to goal line the only way we can make this work it to build it taller. A taller stand is hard to pass though permitting because it just takes one disgruntled resident to complain and the whole thing may get scuppered. Any delay in permitting adds to the cost in time and money. The big one though is 99.9% of the time the existing infrastructure is maxed out, old and requires replacing. This new stand needs more water, more electricity and more sewage lines, all costs that people don’t think about in the beginning.

Next is the location of this new stand and the effect streets and existing housing have on the construction process. Can we get cranes, delivery trucks to where they need to be. It’s in a residential area so we can only work 8 hours a day and of that construction is only about 6 hours a day because of the logistics of moving equipment, steel and people to where they need to be.

How do I know this? I’m an architect that works for a large company that specializes in stadium construction here in the USA.

I have just finished working on a brand new 32,000 all seater stadium that took 16 months to build from ground breaking to first game being played (it helped a lot that it is in California and the weather didn’t have any impact on construction). To redevelop just one stand at BP will probably take 18 months if all goes well. To redevelop all four sides will take much longer and at least 4 times whatever the cost was to build the first stand.

Apologies for the length of my post but I hope this helps further the discussion about a new stadium or redeveloping BP. Best wishes for the rest of the season, hope to see you back with us in League 1 soon.

The nth thread on this but here goes - No way would it take 18 months to built 1 stand. Leicester Tigers built the biggest single tier stand in the UK (at that date) in the rugby union close season plus a couple of end of  season games relocated to Leicester City. 10,500 capacity 1,000 place conferencing. Some of the fit-out might not have been fully finished for the first home league game in September but by November it was all done - they beat the Springboks in official opening (absolutely cracking game).

Kit build could be done in even less time. We ain’t got £40 million so a new stadium is not going to happen. My current view would be the best outcome would be, Labour get in - expand consents for safe standing, phased rebuild of the Main and Osmond plus corners filled to about circa 12/13k with a couple of thousand terrace places linking Main to Pontoon.

Know any silicone valley tech millionaires that want to get into a community club?

Quoted from Gaffer58

Know any silicone valley tech millionaires that want to get into a community club?

Preferably ones without neo-Nazi tendencies.

USA Imp - Got myself a new shed - are you any good at putting them up ?

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

The nth thread on this but here goes - No way would it take 18 months to built 1 stand. Leicester Tigers built the biggest single tier stand in the UK (at that date) in the rugby union close season plus a couple of end of  season games relocated to Leicester City. 10,500 capacity 1,000 place conferencing. Some of the fit-out might not have been fully finished for the first home league game in September but by November it was all done - they beat the Springboks in official opening (absolutely cracking game).

Kit build could be done in even less time. We ain’t got £40 million so a new stadium is not going to happen. My current view would be the best outcome would be, Labour get in - expand consents for safe standing, phased rebuild of the Main and Osmond plus corners filled to about circa 12/13k with a couple of thousand terrace places linking Main to Pontoon.

I'm not sure where this £40 million figure has come from. I know JS mentioned it but I disagree. I work with major construction projects and the figure to construct a football ground is way off the mark. Rotherham's ground cost £20m 10 years ago and I do know costs haven't doubled in that time. They didn't fill Millmoor but had the ambition to move and it's benefitted them. I know even £20m is out of our reach at the moment but a new ground can't be discounted in the future otherwise progression for the club will be limited staying at BP.

Quoted from golfer

USA Imp - Got myself a new shed - are you any good at putting them up ?

I'm an old fart, i can draw it up, point and shout but thats about the extents of my tallents.  

I think it is obvious the next few seasons, maybe a decade will be spent repairing the Fenty legacy with safety work and tinkering with minor improvements to the stadium.

Any redevelopment or move has been kicked into the longish grass but no doubt will be looked at again once we have stabilised and restored our reputation within the game.

I think that is fair enough on the proviso we spend enough on squads so we can make league 1 sooner rather than later.

Can't redevelop Blundell Park. Too close to houses all the way round, not enough space and that's if we could get planning permission

Quoted from mimma

Can't redevelop Blundell Park. Too close to houses all the way round, not enough space and that's if we could get planning permission

Buy up the houses behind the main stand and pull them down, rotate the pitch 90 degrees so the Findus stand is behind the goal and that would give you a huge footprint to work with

Only downside to that at 100k each thats 2 million before you even think about pulling them down

Quoted from mimma

Can't redevelop Blundell Park. Too close to houses all the way round, not enough space and that's if we could get planning permission

Depends what you mean by redevelop though doesn't it you have plenty of scope on the current footprint , the stands could be expanded in the current format even ,with clever reconfiguration of the seating but again it would be down to cost - I would be happy if the disabled supporters facilities were improved in the short to medium term because a good few of them are still getting sodden wet through in the main on a bad weather day.

Quoted from Simon

rotate the pitch 90 degrees so the Findus stand is behind the goal

Clockwise or anti-clockwise?

Quoted from Dogger Bank

I'm not sure where this £40 million figure has come from. I know JS mentioned it but I disagree. I work with major construction projects and the figure to construct a football ground is way off the mark. Rotherham's ground cost £20m 10 years ago and I do know costs haven't doubled in that time. They didn't fill Millmoor but had the ambition to move and it's benefitted them. I know even £20m is out of our reach at the moment but a new ground can't be discounted in the future otherwise progression for the club will be limited staying at BP.

If there is public money involved there will be sustainability targets to hit that weren’t there 10 years ago. I’m not up to speed on commercial build cost but I’ve just seen tenders that are eyewatering for low carbon housing and yes nearly double of 10 years ago. That will only affect the internal areas - offices, hospitality etc but if we wanted a replica of Rotherham’s NY stadium I wouldn’t expect a lot of change out of JS’s £40 million. A lot depends on external works costs but I doubt £20 million would get us a Glanford Park.

Quoted from Dogger Bank

I'm not sure where this £40 million figure has come from. I know JS mentioned it but I disagree. I work with major construction projects and the figure to construct a football ground is way off the mark. Rotherham's ground cost £20m 10 years ago and I do know costs haven't doubled in that time. They didn't fill Millmoor but had the ambition to move and it's benefitted them. I know even £20m is out of our reach at the moment but a new ground can't be discounted in the future otherwise progression for the club will be limited staying at BP.

Rotherham’s stadium broke ground in 2011, and inflation makes that £20m roughly the equivalent of £28.2m today. You’ll know better than me since you work in construction, but it’s fairly common knowledge that the rise in cost of building materials far outstripped base inflation in the years following Covid. Whether they’ve settled down in more recent times I don’t know, but they’re certainly well above 2019 levels.

The most relevant post-Covid build that I can think of is not in this country, but Austria. LASK’s cracking Raiffeisen Arena cost €65m (£56.2m) to build for its 19,000 seats, and was constructed between 2021 and 2023. Appreciate it’s not quite this simple in practice, but extrapolating the number of seats down to a 14,000 capacity takes you to a figure of £41.4m. Keep in mind, too, that average salaries in Austria are about 30% lower than the UK.

Ultimately, I don’t work in construction, nor do I have a degree in economics, but £40m seems a pretty good finger in the air to me. I live in hope that this figure comes down in real terms over time, but for the time being the prospect of a new ground for Town remains as real as a Fenty crack pipe dream.

Quoted from Dogger Bank

I'm not sure where this £40 million figure has come from. I know JS mentioned it but I disagree. I work with major construction projects and the figure to construct a football ground is way off the mark. Rotherham's ground cost £20m 10 years ago and I do know costs haven't doubled in that time. They didn't fill Millmoor but had the ambition to move and it's benefitted them. I know even £20m is out of our reach at the moment but a new ground can't be discounted in the future otherwise progression for the club will be limited staying at BP.

If I remember right(correct me if I'm wrong), York City's new ground cost £40 mil+ when it was built a few years ago.

I'm not entirely sure why we've yet another thread about the ground.

It's been made abundantly clear that there are no plans to move or even redevelop regardless of whether it's 20 or 40 million.

Hell we don't even have the funds to pay for the training ground.

May as well be a thread about us signing Haaland.

Quoted from 123614

If I remember right(correct me if I'm wrong), York City's new ground cost £40 mil+ when it was built a few years ago.

It did my friend. I'm not sure of the layout or what the whole development offers but it is classed as a community stadium. There were delays and issues with the developers that inflated the original cost estimate and I think the local authority were trying to get those costs back. Not sure how they got on. I would imagine the land value in and around York is higher than that of N E Lincolnshire so would expect that added to the overall cost. I'm not a land surveyor so this is an assumption.

Every Fans Forum , interview, Guardian article and podcast has been used as a tool for managing fans' expectations. Unless external investment, Council support and Govt. grants can supply either capital or financial guarantees then the prospects are zero.

If we fail to smell the coffee and continue to dream then that's all we are, dreamers. When the facts change so will the narrative. Right now, let's give the owners and new manager some space so that our league status remains the primary aim.

Quoted from Dogger Bank

It did my friend. I'm not sure of the layout or what the whole development offers but it is classed as a community stadium. There were delays and issues with the developers that inflated the original cost estimate and I think the local authority were trying to get those costs back. Not sure how they got on. I would imagine the land value in and around York is higher than that of N E Lincolnshire so would expect that added to the overall cost. I'm not a land surveyor so this is an assumption.

In the actual stadium it's quite poor for a game  but it has  decent bits on the the site - leisure centre there and gym  ,  quite good hospitality for events etc , a library ; pretty sure there is an m and s + cinema there maybe a few other bits (I have only been once a couple of years ago so a bit fuzzy) - maybe they were the 'enabling developers ' + the council funded a lot of it i think - it's very small when I went they had a restricted capacity 7k or something like that but even when fully operational i think it's only 8k maybe ?

Quoted from Poojah

Rotherham’s stadium broke ground in 2011, and inflation makes that £20m roughly the equivalent of £28.2m today. You’ll know better than me since you work in construction, but it’s fairly common knowledge that the rise in cost of building materials far outstripped base inflation in the years following Covid. Whether they’ve settled down in more recent times I don’t know, but they’re certainly well above 2019 levels.

The most relevant post-Covid build that I can think of is not in this country, but Austria. LASK’s cracking Raiffeisen Arena cost €65m (£56.2m) to build for its 19,000 seats, and was constructed between 2021 and 2023. Appreciate it’s not quite this simple in practice, but extrapolating the number of seats down to a 14,000 capacity takes you to a figure of £41.4m. Keep in mind, too, that average salaries in Austria are about 30% lower than the UK.

Ultimately, I don’t work in construction, nor do I have a degree in economics, but £40m seems a pretty good finger in the air to me. I live in hope that this figure comes down in real terms over time, but for the time being the prospect of a new ground for Town remains as real as a Fenty crack pipe dream.

I've no doubt and agree inflation on the original cost of Rotherham's ground would affect anything built now. Also the land value in any area will be part of a developments total cost. N E Lincolnshire will be cheaper than most even though prices have increased around here in recent years.

What you said about the stadium in Austria is interesting. I'm not sure of regulations or costs in that country that may affect any development expenditure. Who knows if it's comparable to a stadium cost in Grimsby. I've just Googled and it looks pretty good though.

Until a site is highlighted and a study is completed to get a total installed cost (in my line of work a detailed level will be +/- 5%) we'll never know. I do question the £40m though with land costs in this area even if materials have increased.

Quoted from Simon

Only downside to that at 100k each thats 2 million before you even think about pulling them down

And then thats only if each owner agreed to sell for that price, which i very much doubt. Many would hold out for the highest price possible

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

The nth thread on this but here goes - No way would it take 18 months to built 1 stand. Leicester Tigers built the biggest single tier stand in the UK (at that date) in the rugby union close season plus a couple of end of  season games relocated to Leicester City. 10,500 capacity 1,000 place conferencing. Some of the fit-out might not have been fully finished for the first home league game in September but by November it was all done - they beat the Springboks in official opening (absolutely cracking game).

Kit build could be done in even less time. We ain’t got £40 million so a new stadium is not going to happen. My current view would be the best outcome would be, Labour get in - expand consents for safe standing, phased rebuild of the Main and Osmond plus corners filled to about circa 12/13k with a couple of thousand terrace places linking Main to Pontoon.

Who’s going to fight the safe standing battle though ?
All the big clubs have their stadiums built now , they won’t give a toss about lower leagues

Same footprint, same hight, building from one end of "Findus" all the way round including corners to other end of "Findus" I am sure we could get a 12,000 (poss 15,000) capacity with modern building methods.

But then where will suporters park ? I don't think a Park and Ride would work either. Pehaps a Brighton style shuttle train and a new station next to the new Salmon Farm.  

Quoted from grimps

Who’s going to fight the safe standing battle though ?
All the big clubs have their stadiums built now , they won’t give a toss about lower leagues

Limited numbers of new rail seats are already permitted in existing all seaters, lower league grounds never used at championship level can still have terracing including new build (eg Fleetword and Morcambe). It just needs the anomaly lifting of grounds that had to go to all seater because of numbers of year in the second tier (like BP) being stopped from going back to having terracing. Perhaps a Fair Game campaign with a more sympathetic legislature in place, especially if it means more cheaper tickets can be available.

Ffs how many times are we going to go over this and how many times does Jason and Andrew need to tell us us there is no appetite to do either a move or redevelopment so please stop

Merry Xmas but if anyone of our beautiful town fans think you can
Build a 15000 seat stadium for less than 40 million in this climate 🤣
It would cost 50 odd million behind the market on freemo if god would let it happen ❤️

Quoted from Croxton

Every Fans Forum , interview, Guardian article and podcast has been used as a tool for managing fans' expectations. Unless external investment, Council support and Govt. grants can supply either capital or financial guarantees then the prospects are zero.

If we fail to smell the coffee and continue to dream then that's all we are, dreamers. When the facts change so will the narrative. Right now, let's give the owners and new manager some space so that our league status remains the primary aim.

This.

What happens to Shuts or what’s his name?

Recon owners turning their backs on Freeman Street was a bad move. Land Gov money political will was there. Levelling up Fund or something was it called.

2 threads on 1 page on the same subject. I'm very much an optimist, as many know, but if JS & AP say NO WAY
then that's the end of the topic.

Quoted from mimma

Can't redevelop Blundell Park. Too close to houses all the way round, not enough space and that's if we could get planning permission

Those if us old enough to remember will recall when the scenario for a new ground was first raised in the modern era  The club approached the Council to find out how amenable they were for the club to redevelop BP. The Councils response that they would rather the club move and that they would do all they could to facilitate this. All of this is on record and can be found in the GET editions of the time ( old copies are stored at the Library in digital/microfilm format). Obviously a lot has changed since and Councils of different political callings have blown hot and cold over any move. I know very little about planning matters but apart from some " window dressing" I doubt very much wether the Council would grant planning permission for any major developments at BP. Any changes to the ground to increase capacity and therefore attract more fans but create an ever greater bottle neck in traffic movements on match days. The objections from local residents would be enormous, especially if it was orchestrated by any local councillors wanting to " curry favour" with the voting local residents.

Nearly all stadia new or old face this "congestion and bottlenecks " don't they? Thousands of people congregating and getting to and from the ground every couple of weeks isn't the end of the world is it?

Quoted from Poojah

Rotherham’s stadium broke ground in 2011, and inflation makes that £20m roughly the equivalent of £28.2m today. You’ll know better than me since you work in construction, but it’s fairly common knowledge that the rise in cost of building materials far outstripped base inflation in the years following Covid. Whether they’ve settled down in more recent times I don’t know, but they’re certainly well above 2019 levels.

Also work in construction, this is still absolutely the case. As a result, developers and clients are squeezing contractors and contractors are squeezing consultants and consultants are squeezing sub-consultants/contractors. Fees are up and profit margins are way down. We're busier than we ever have been but just not getting paid anywhere near an amount that results in the sort of profits we're used to for the small to medium sized jobs. The company I work for operates with a profit share scheme and it's been as high as 20% of your salary at various points over the last five or six years but next year (based on last year's books) is the first year since I've been there that we're not getting anything. We don't really work in stadium design, more office, resi, mixed use and masterplan but I'd imagine it's the same across the board. Can see things getting worse still before they stabilise, there's definitely an air of desperation around getting the bigger jobs at the moment. Both the cost of materials and Gove being on one rejecting schemes left, right and centre are having big ripple effects.

1988 and Action 88 was the first time I remember hearing about a proposed new ground.Myself and many supporters filled out a questionnaire and returned it this has been repeated several times since . There is a huge lack of something around this area for any kind of improvement on a large scale and it's been like that all my lifetime. I  doubt I will see a new ground built its gone on far too long.

Whilst this is the billionth thread on the issue and two of the most popular threads on this message board currently are about the exact same topic, I'm quite pleased the previously lurking USA Imp gave his insight onto this.  It's from a perspective I don't think most of us have heard before.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Nearly all stadia new or old face this "congestion and bottlenecks " don't they? Thousands of people congregating and getting to and from the ground every couple of weeks isn't the end of the world is it?

No , it's not the end of the world but is still a major consideration in all planning applications for new builds and large developments.

Grimsby, the town that’s got nothing, wants nothing and will get exactly that.
Merry Christmas.

Quoted from rancido

No , it's not the end of the world but is still a major consideration in all planning applications for new builds and large developments.

But my point is even with new stadia there is congestion and bottlenecks despite all the boxes being ticked.

I know what you mean that councils make ridiculous demands but most of it is box ticking.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

But my point is even with new stadia there is congestion and bottlenecks despite all the boxes being ticked.

I know what you mean that councils make ridiculous demands but most of it is box ticking.

It’s a convenient excuse when they want it to be but, they don’t seem to give a excrement when shoehorning new housing into areas without the infrastructure to support it!

Quoted from NorthseaMariner

Grimsby, the town that’s got nothing, wants nothing and will get exactly that.
Merry Christmas.

Thanks!

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

But my point is even with new stadia there is congestion and bottlenecks despite all the boxes being ticked.

I know what you mean that councils make ridiculous demands but most of it is box ticking.

Admittedly but it is still a strong argument that would be employed by objectors. The residents of the surrounding streets to BP would have a very strong objection to any upgrading that leads to greater capacity. It's bad enough now with all the residents parking down the streets, many of which are one-way. Fans often refer to how the local parking has always been a problem but with increased car ownership this will get worse resulting in more congestion.

Quoted from rancido

Admittedly but it is still a strong argument that would be employed by objectors. The residents of the surrounding streets to BP would have a very strong objection to any upgrading that leads to greater capacity. It's bad enough now with all the residents parking down the streets, many of which are one-way. Fans often refer to how the local parking has always been a problem but with increased car ownership this will get worse resulting in more congestion.

Car parking in 20 years time when any  new stadium may come to fruition will not be a problem by then car ownership will be for the super rich totally out priced to mere mortals who will use a unmanned Uber service. The street will be given back to the kids and street football will be reborn

Quoted from NorthseaMariner

Grimsby, the town that’s got nothing, wants nothing and will get exactly that.
Merry Christmas.

And that's where WE come in.  We have one of the most deprived wards in the whole of the UK, the sort of place even this government is throwing money at, but not us.  Why don't WE (i.e. we fishys) do something about it ourselves.  There are enough good people on here to make a watertight case for government money for a multi-use community facility, with support from the local council, the local MPs, the Freemen of Grimsby.  That is the way to go instead of waiting for one of us to win the multi-rollover Euromillions jackpot or for a dodgy regime to do a bit of expensive sportswashing for us.  Let's do it!

Quoted from JK47

And that's where WE come in.  We have one of the most deprived wards in the whole of the UK, the sort of place even this government is throwing money at, but not us.  Why don't WE (i.e. we fishys) do something about it ourselves.  There are enough good people on here to make a watertight case for government money for a multi-use community facility, with support from the local council, the local MPs, the Freemen of Grimsby.  That is the way to go instead of waiting for one of us to win the multi-rollover Euromillions jackpot or for a dodgy regime to do a bit of expensive sportswashing for us.  Let's do it!

The owners will know what monies are available and will have spoken to the relevant parties, surely?

However you cut it though, we (the owners) will have to raise significant capital and they might think there are too many strings attached to a project that they do not have full control over, even if they wanted to raise their share of the cost.

Who knows what is going on behind the scenes but we are told there is no appetite for a move in the foreseeable future.

I know of one such project that succeeded in getting many millions, run by one person, NOT the owner of the project, it's a COMMUNITY asset.  The owner's would struggle, which is why I never mentioned them.  They would have to be building something for the community, NOT for their own FC, and it could NOT be part of their FC.  But if we aren't prepared to do anything then fair enough.

Always wonder if that Tom Shutes still works with the lads on a way forward with a new stadium

He seemed mad keen on the idea of a new stadium on the docks  , and is allegedly extremely wealthy.  Assume their views on the clubs future  either didn't allign or he was in it for the wrong reasons / a chancer ?

Nothing much was said when he pulled out of the consortium really .

Quoted from Mappers

Always wonder if that Tom Shutes still works with the lads on a way forward with a new stadium

He seemed mad keen on the idea of a new stadium on the docks  , and is allegedly extremely wealthy.  Assume their views on the clubs future  either didn't allign or he was in it for the wrong reasons / a chancer ?

Nothing much was said when he pulled out of the consortium really .

Perhaps he got fed up with the previous owner and his ways. Was Shutes a tyre kicker?

Tyre Kicker.

He p1ssssed the New Owners off with his last Minute pull out allegedly. Derailed Fremo relo me thinks with his 2 year procrastinations and artist impressions.  

Council needed a mast to nail its flag to.

Quoted from GibMariner

Tyre Kicker.

He p1ssssed the New Owners off with his last Minute pull out allegedly. Derailed Fremo relo me thinks with his 2 year procrastinations and artist impressions.  

Council needed a mast to nail its flag to.

Except, the council don’t even have a flag

Wasn't there supposed to be an £80 million redevelopment injection coming from the government to help with leveling up? What happened to that?

I mean, we lived up to our side of the bargain by supplying a very fetching bobble hat.

Quoted from Simon

Buy up the houses behind the main stand and pull them down, rotate the pitch 90 degrees so the Findus stand is behind the goal and that would give you a huge footprint to work with

Only downside to that at 100k each thats 2 million before you even think about pulling them down

Imagine living in the last house on Harrington Street to be sold. The first half million pound terrace house in Cleethorpes.

Quoted from barralad

Imagine living in the last house on Harrington Street to be sold. The first half million pound terrace house in Cleethorpes.

Don't tell anyone but i own two  

Quoted from JK47

And that's where WE come in.  We have one of the most deprived wards in the whole of the UK, the sort of place even this government is throwing money at, but not us.  Why don't WE (i.e. we fishys) do something about it ourselves.  There are enough good people on here to make a watertight case for government money for a multi-use community facility, with support from the local council, the local MPs, the Freemen of Grimsby.  That is the way to go instead of waiting for one of us to win the multi-rollover Euromillions jackpot or for a dodgy regime to do a bit of expensive sportswashing for us.  Let's do it!

Utter bullshit. Benefits are the same across the country so the supposed deprivation is the same wherever you are.
The argument that a new football stadium prefixed with "community" is totally inaccurate and misguided. It would change nothing.

Quoted from Simon

Don't tell anyone but i own two  

You dont own no 90  do you..?? I grew up there ?

Utter bullshit. Benefits are the same across the country so the supposed deprivation is the same wherever you are.
The argument that a new football stadium prefixed with "community" is totally inaccurate and misguided. It would change nothing.

Oh, OK then.  I'm afraid in the real world, the only things that get past by the governemnt have the words "community" and "levelling up" attached to them.  It has to be done through the council, and there's no way the council or the government would justify anything at all "for GTFC."  They would if it could be justified as an improvement for an extremely deprived area and would benefit all generations. I'm sure I'm not the only one who could write an entire book full of justifications for the government to throw some cash in the direction of Grimsby, after all Gove handed back £1.69 billion that no-one seemed to want.  If we (or the council) can't think how we SHOULD have had a large chunk of that for OUR town then I am "disappointed" or perhaps a bit more than disappointed.  If our MPs, or propspective MPs want to be elected or re-elected in 2024, they could of course give the Council a nudge and actually get some real cash handed over.  I'm sure that the Freemen would be positive about such a suggestion.  Why should Grimsby always be at the back of the queue?

Quoted from USA Imp

Long time lurker

Why?

Just thought I could add something to the ongoing move or redevelop discussion.

It's not really ongoing.  The owners' official line is that relocation is not a priority, as BP is not often sold out.

It’s always an interesting discussion on whether to redevelop or move to a new purpose built ground. The cost of knocking down an old stand and building a new one can often be the same as building a new ground.

Briefly….

Not brief enough for my liking.  I've deleted a lot of this quote.

Every football fan hates the type of stadium that has all sides identical

Speak for yourself.  I hate a stand that is twice the height of the rest of the ground but only covers half the length of the pitch.  It is bad for atmosphere.

Move or redevelop?  As I've said several times before, I don't think the council would grant permission to increase BP's capacity to more than the 10k we had with the uncovered green seats.  The local authority has to consider the lack of dedicated parking spaces and traffic congestion.

If you think 10k is an adequate capacity for Grimsby Town Football Club, then stay at Blundell Park.

If, like me, you think we could fill a 15k 'Keepmoat' in the Championship, then we need to move.

Quoted from White_shorts

Move or redevelop?  As I've said several times before, I don't think the council would grant permission to increase BP's capacity to more than the 10k we had with the uncovered green seats.  The local authority has to consider the lack of dedicated parking spaces and traffic congestion.

If you think 10k is an adequate capacity for Grimsby Town Football Club, then stay at Blundell Park.

If, like me, you think we could fill a 15k 'Keepmoat' in the Championship, then we need to move.

Not sure which is the least likely a 15,000 seater ground or Town in the championship.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Not sure which is the least likely a 15,000 seater ground or Town in the championship.

Town in the Championship is not fanciful but maintaining that position is a different thing.

Quoted from rancido

Town in the Championship is not fanciful but maintaining that position is a different thing.

That's a fair call