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Tweet 1730949943786152101 will appear here... Subs Eastwood, Waterfall, Efette, Green, Holohan, Ainley, Eisa, Khouri, Wilson |
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Hunt gets to start a match so he has the chance to prove himself to the new gaffer, as looks like Gnahoua may be injured. it's also good to see Khouri on the bench so he must have recovered from his injuries.
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Hunt for Gnahoua in the XI, no Gnahoua in the squad.
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A pity, as Gnahoua has been doing well since his return to the team. He looks after the ball really well, even if he's not a flashy player in other regards. Hopefully, the rejigged midfield will function well.
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Good luck mariners,I will be rooting for you and looking out for your goals going in on Soccer Saturday
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Anyone know where or if the game will be streaming?
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| In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD |
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Gutted I’m not there today. Come on Town!
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| It Bites |
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Anyone know where or if the game will be streaming?
Nope . No streams at all |
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| Chrisblor |
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For all you IPTV pirates there is NO STREAM today. The only way to watch this match is by freezing your bottom off in the away end. I can personally confirm conditions in the Kassam Stadium are currently approaching Wrexham-in-the-FA-Trophy-final levels of "jesus flipping christ it's cold".
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For all you IPTV pirates there is NO STREAM today. The only way to watch this match is by freezing your bottom off in the away end. I can personally confirm conditions in the Kassam Stadium are currently approaching Wrexham-in-the-FA-Trophy-final levels of "jesus flipping christ it's cold".
Ha, well remember that day, never known a day so cold!! Hopefully a win will warm you all up!! Great support from you all as always, have a great day. |
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| supertown |
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Quoted from 123614
Is it possible to watch Soccer Saturday on a PC?
Sky go ? |
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| 123614 |
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Guest User |
Sky go ?
Ok thanks, got it now. |
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Remember watching a few winter weeknight games in the Pontoon where I had a few pairs of gloves, thermals top to bottom, a thick hat.. and decided that, na, I will just wait to find out the result today.
Coincidentally the last time I saw us at Oxford probably about 9 years (??!) ago it was Baltic as well.
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Game commentary is live on bbc radio Oxford if that’s any help. Oxford are the team playing in yellow.
Town support sound in v good voice
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| Rose is on fire
And your scotch eggs are fu(king vile |
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A pity, as Gnahoua has been doing well since his return to the team. He looks after the ball really well, even if he's not a flashy player in other regards. Hopefully, the rejigged midfield will function well.
He’s got a lovely touch. See the way he brought the ball down early on in the move for Rose’s header vs Bradford. Or the clever spin and bling to set Green free early on against Forest Green. Just wish he believed himself more. Huge talent. Lovely stuff. |
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Our fans sound in good voice.
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Bu66er
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| Rose is on fire
And your scotch eggs are fu(king vile |
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| DB |
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Sh!t 1 0 down
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Commentary is on radio humberside on bbc sounds app
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| Chrisblor |
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Conteh being lazy caused that. Let the Oxford player in behind him because he was jogging instead of sprinting.
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| gary jones |
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Conteh being lazy caused that. Let the Oxford player in behind him because he was jogging instead of sprinting.
Seen all too often in our play when we lose possession. If I was Artell I’d be furious because there’s no excuse for it. |
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Brilliant defending from Maher according to the wireless.
The commentators are saying that the fog is getting worse!
Go on ref, call it off
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| Rose is on fire
And your scotch eggs are fu(king vile |
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They are very quick and dangerous on the break
Goal came from our own corner, poor defending
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| denni266 |
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Plenty of time to get back in too this
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| Hagrid |
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They are lucky to not be down to 10. One of them when its a booking if he hadnt already been booked
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| chaos33 |
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871 Town fans is a top effort
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| Martz86 |
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How we playing? Stats would suggest we're giving it a good go...
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| sonofmadeleymariner |
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How we playing? Stats would suggest we're giving it a good go...
We seem to be rather wastful with the ball, ever attack seems to end with "... and it's been given away" |
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The area you are trying to protect at corners is the goal - Chris Kamara
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Should have been 2.
Half time. So cold
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| acko338 |
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Why is Hunt not taking corners?
Last season, his corners were a quality weaoon, especially when Waterfall was waiting for them coming onto him!
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| Chrisblor |
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We're very much in this, our final ball or attempt has just been shite. Khan's had two very decent glimpses and spannered the first over the bar and the second weakly straight at the keeper. We've generally defended well aside from the goal where they countered after a town corner, Conteh was slow getting back and let the Oxford player in behind him. Cartwright saved well but the rebound fell very fortunately between two town players straight to an Oxford attacker for a simple finish. Their only other real effort of note came bang on the half time whistle where a lazy attempt at a tackle by Khan let their winger in who flashed a cross through the six yard box with them inches away from a tap in. If we can sort out our play in the final third then we'll have a chance as some of our build up play through midfield has been really slick. When we're getting the ball to Hunt (playing in a much more advanced role today) he's making things happen.
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Conteh being lazy caused that. Let the Oxford player in behind him because he was jogging instead of sprinting.
Totally disagree, hewas busting a gut, it's just the 23 is lightning quick. Cartwright wasn't . V. happy with himself, palming back into the attackers path |
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| Chrisblor |
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Oh yeah the ref and linesman on our side are SHITE. Got about four decisions wrong and also let their number 9 hold Maher down with a sort of leg scissor move for about five seconds with no punishment so he couldn't get back to defend an Oxford break.
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Why is Hunt not taking corners?
Last season, his corners were a quality weaoon, especially when Waterfall was waiting for them coming onto him!
Think that was the season before TBH, |
| "Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  |
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| Chrisblor |
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Totally disagree, hewas busting a gut, it's just the 23 is lightning quick.
Cartwright wasn't .
V. happy with himself, palming back into the attackers path
Nope, he was busting a gut AFTER the attacker went past him. If he'd busted a gut half a second earlier instead of just jogging towards the ball he'd have cut the counter attack out before it begun. |
| gary jones |
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Oh yeah the ref and linesman on our side are SHITE. Got about four decisions wrong and also let their number 9 hold Maher down with a sort of leg scissor move for about five seconds with no punishment so he couldn't get back to defend an Oxford break.
Refs from the Premier League what do you expect😂 He bottled sending off Rodrigues |
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| chaos33 |
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Two poor decisions in quick succession cost us a chance of an equaliser there then Glennon’s poor cross killed it
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| Hagrid |
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We’ve got to be quicker going forward, we take an extra touch or turn back and its giving Oxford the chance to get back and snuff us out
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Must be nice for Croft when he selects what he thinks is the logical sub to make and it is actually what happens.  |
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| Hagrid |
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Oh what a flipping waste. Thats rubbish from Glennon and Hunt
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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Should have been 2.
Half time. So cold
I can tell you’re cold just from the way you’ve written that. I was once at Stockport away and all I could manage to text was: Challinor. Cünt. |
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| chaos33 |
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Again, decisions!!! Total waste! 😣
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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Not out of this, come on Town.
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Brilliant noise from the town support.
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| Rose is on fire
And your scotch eggs are fu(king vile |
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| DB |
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Sounds like Wilson nearly scored for us.
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Sh1te
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| Rose is on fire
And your scotch eggs are fu(king vile |
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| Theimperialcoroner |
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Game over
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| Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!! |
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2 0 and out of the cup. Let's concentrate on the league and ensure we stay in it for next season.
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| sonofmadeleymariner |
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FFS another goal from dicking about at the back trying to play out.
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| I don't mind Roy Keane making £60,000 a week. I was making the same when I was playing. The only difference was I was printing my own - Mickey Thomas
The area you are trying to protect at corners is the goal - Chris Kamara
I once said Gazza's IQ was less than his shirt number and he asked me: What's an IQ? - George Best |
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| Chrisblor |
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Absolutely pathetic goal to concede. Maher spends ages dawdling on the ball in midfield with loads of options and gives it away, then Mullarkey doesn't bother making any effort to stop the cross and somehow their striker is unmarked in the middle of the six yard box for a simple header from about 4 yards. Not remotely good enough and again an avoidable goal resulting from individual mistakes.
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| gary jones |
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| chaos33 |
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There you go. Lesson. Against better opposition, you make good decisions and you take your chances or you get killed. We’ve not done that, and been punished.
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| "You should do what you love while you can" |
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| chaos33 |
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Absolutely pathetic goal to concede. Maher spends ages dawdling on the ball in midfield with loads of options and gives it away, then Mullarkey doesn't bother making any effort to stop the cross and somehow their striker is unmarked in the middle of the six yard box for a simple header from about 4 yards. Not remotely good enough and again an avoidable goal resulting from individual mistakes.
Defenders again. |
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| ginnywings |
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Sloppy in attack, sloppy in defence sums up our season.
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| Hagrid |
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There you go. Lesson. Against better opposition, you make good decisions and you take your chances or you get killed. We’ve not done that, and been punished.
Well we never do that, Hence why we are where we are in the league. These defensive errors are really starting to urine me off |
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Sounds like Wilson nearly scored for us.
Yeah if only eh? Sounded like Beadle had a small hand in keeping it out. |
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| Martz86 |
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Shame as it's sounded we've put a decentish shift in, if Artell would have had longer prior to this game then I'd imagine it would have been much tighter. Still promising signs for the future.
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| chaos33 |
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These defenders need shaking up or shipping out.
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Can't remember the last clean sheet we kept.
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We've not played badly we've just switched off for both their goals and have been a bit unlucky as well as made poor decisions when in the final third.
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| gary jones |
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They are simply not good enough to play out from the back. It’s a fad, the ‘in’ thing. In my playing days if you played the ball across the box, you be given a right rollicking. Why are these guys doing it? It's crazy. They are all at it in this league and big defenders just do not have the composure or skill for quick control, shifting the ball and passing accurately. Get the ball up the other end. Drives me mad.
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Another terrible misplaced pass out of defence, this time by Rodgers puts them in on the counter and Cartwright has to pull out a brilliant save at full stretch to tip it over. Glennon's the only one out of the back four to have played well today.
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| gary jones |
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Think the passing across the back line should be restricted to Premier and top half of Championship
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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They are simply not good enough to play out from the back> It’s a fad, the ‘in’ thing. In my playing days if you palyed the ball across the box, you be given a right rollicking. Why are these guys doing it. It;s crazy. They are all ar it in this league and big defenders just do not have the composure or skill for quick control, shifting the ball and passing accurately. Get the ball up the other end. Drives me mad.
There’s no problem playing out from the back. Just do it better. There’s no problem shaving your pübes. Just concentrate. |
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| Plankton |
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No cup run and feeling quite deflated now. It's been a torrid season so far and the cup was the only glimmer |
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| out of town |
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They are simply not good enough to play out from the back. It’s a fad, the ‘in’ thing. In my playing days if you played the ball across the box, you be given a right rollicking. Why are these guys doing it? It's crazy. They are all at it in this league and big defenders just do not have the composure or skill for quick control, shifting the ball and passing accurately. Get the ball up the other end. Drives me mad.
Just hoof it up to the units we’ve got up top and win the second balls… |
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| DB |
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How has Hunt played today?
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Safe journey home to all our 871 fans, take care in the for and ice.
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| Badger57 |
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Playing across the back is just plain dumb. Why it's the now accepted way defies logic. It was dumb then and it's still dumb now.
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| Chrisblor |
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How has Hunt played today?
One of our better players. Used the ball well and the one time he lost it he tracked back and shouldered the attacker off the ball to retrieve it. |
| gary jones |
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Playing across the back is just plain dumb. Why it's the now accepted way defies logic. It was dumb then and it's still dumb now.
Anaesthetic is over rated. I always thought whisky and biting a wooden stick was better. |
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Playing across the back is just plain dumb. Why it's the now accepted way defies logic. It was dumb then and it's still dumb now.
Do like it when top level managers come on here and give a real analysis of defensive tactics. Marvellous |
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In the Conference, I was always happy when I saw a team trying to pass it around at the back and the same holds true since we returned to the league. That's not to say I wouldn't prefer to see us passing the ball around effectively if we were good enough to do so, but I'm not convinced that the current bunch of players actually are.
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We cant defend. Thats been clear, Passing around with it at the back invites pressure
Maher cost us a goal today, and one against Forest Green dawdling about with it.
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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Who gives a fück about an Oxford, comma…
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| hampshiremariner |
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There’s no problem playing out from the back. Just do it better.
There’s no problem shaving your pübes. Just concentrate.
Giving goals away because of it is stupid. Notts County the other week, 4-0 up against Bradford and cruising. Then they play out and their defenders lacked the skill, they concede two as a result. Most defenders at this level are not up to playing out. That’s why they are playing at this level. The idea is to put the ball in the net at the other end, not mess about with it around your own box. Unless you like giving cheap goals away, of course. If some of these guys indulged in the shaving activity you mention, there would be a lot with serious cuts to their privates. Self-inflicted pain with both playing out of the back and shaving down south. |
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| ska face |
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Giving goals away because of it is stupid. Notss County the other week, 4-0 against Bradford and cruising. Then they play out and their defenders lacked the skill, they concede two as a result. Most defenders ar this level are not up to playing out. That’s why they are playing at this level. The idea is to put the ball in the net at the other end, not mess aboit with it around your own box. Unless yoy like giving cheap goals away, of course.
You not question how they ended up 4-0 up in the first place? Or were they punting it long, then decided to start passing at the back after an hour? Liam Rosenior had to ask Hull fans not to shít their pants everytime a defender passed the ball rather than sent it into orbit. Hopefully Artell does the same as we could do without the “GERRIT FORWARDS!” from level 8 Sunday league cloggers who haven’t played in 40 years. |
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Stop flipping around and get it forward Town.
Stop flipping around and get it forward Town.
Stop flipping around and get it forward Town.
Stop flipping around and get it forward Town.
Stop flipping around and get it forward Town.
Get it on the flipping floor Town.
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| hampshiremariner |
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You can get it out of your own half without lumping it. Jusr don’t mess about with square balls around your own box.
Even when you watch ‘playing’ out from the back in the Prem, it is boring as hell. The worst offenders are England. Mr Maguire, for example.
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| mimma |
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Playing out from the back is here to stay. Artell has only had a week to train them. Believe me, he will drill them over and over until they can do it, or ship them out and replace them with players that can.
The alternative is to hit it long, but it is at best a 50 - 50 to win the ball. It doesn't work either and the ball keeps coming back at us.
Playing out from the back means the opposition either sit back to stop us playing through them, or press high up and leave spaces for us to play through.
Give it time to get it right, there will always be mistakes, but I know which I would rather watch.
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| ginnywings |
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Didn't take long for the just get it forward aficionados to start bleating.
Personally, I am sick of lump it up to the forwards style of play. I'd much rather we played it out from the back, and just got better at it, which takes time. There will be mistakes, but other teams make mistakes too.
Even the very top players get it wrong on occasion, but it doesn't stop them playing that way.
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Playing out from the back is here to stay. Artell has only had a week to train them. Believe me, he will drill them over and over until they can do it, or ship them out and replace them with players that can.
The alternative is to hit it long, but it is at best a 50 - 50 to win the ball. It doesn't work either and the ball keeps coming back at us.
Playing out from the back means the opposition either sit back to stop us playing through them, or press high up and leave spaces for us to play through.
Give it time to get it right, there will always be mistakes, but I know which I would rather watch.
I hear what you say, but you need confident players with composure and skill. We just cannot afford to be giving goals away. We have lost 20 points from winning positions this season. The first prioity for the new manage should be getting us up the table.. I don’t think that will happen if we ship goals 'playing out’. |
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| MuddyWaters |
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Didn't take long for the just get it forward aficionados to start bleating.
Personally, I am sick of lump it up to the forwards style of play. I'd much rather we played it out from the back, and just got better at it, which takes time. There will be mistakes, but other teams make mistakes too.
Even the very top players get it wrong on occasion, but it doesn't stop them playing that way.
I’m happy if we play out from the back as long as it doesn’t become predictable. That said, I’m not entirely convinced that our current incumbents are good enough for it to be their best option. |
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I thought, at the forum, BD and SP said something like playing out from the back is more effective than ouff ball from the keeper.
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| chaos33 |
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I think k it’s fair to say this - other than at the top level, ‘playing out from the back’ is going to cost you way more goals than it creates. You see it on highlights shows every week. In abundance. Watch a load of football at Championship level and below and refute that. I understand the notion of building play, and of not squandering or gambling with possession, but our defenders, by and large, have not looked dependable, consistent, sharp, and technical. On balance, I see this as a silly thing for us to be doing. It’s just a view though. If the management want to use that model- well they are way more qualified than me.
I watched Middlesbrough a lot last season and a bit this and they do this, very deliberately, under Carrick. They are a very good passing side. I’ve seen, time and again, them put themselves under ridiculous pressure and concede needless stupid goals, corners and chances because of it. From the stands - everyone is incredulous. I’ve yet to see it lead to 1 chance created thanks to 14 passes completed. Might work for Man City ….everyone else…..it’s a very high risk very low reward/yield strategy and I’m utterly amazed at how prevalent it is in the EFL.
In my opinion - and I’ve already stated that this isn’t worth tuppence as I’m not a professional coach….this is not what we should be doing and it will cause us needless pressure and avoidable goals.
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| ginnywings |
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I thought, at the forum, BD and SP said something like playing out from the back is more effective than ouff ball from the keeper.
Yeah, but what do they know? |
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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You can get it out of your own half without lumping it. Jusr don’t mess about with square balls around your own box.
Even when you watch ‘playing’ out from the back in the Prem, it is boring as hell. The worst offenders are England. Mr Maguire, for example.
But everyone does it. Other than Uruguay, almost every team in the world is boring. |
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| male private Nale |
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For anyone who hasn't done the fa level 1 coaching course or know the rules for junior football, they encourage from an early age in England to play out from the back. Juniors have a retreat line when the opponents have a goal kick and this is 1 of a few reasons why they do that.
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Our passing has been sh1t for years if playing out means we’ll end up playing the ball on the deck then surely that has to be a good thing?
The more we do it the better we’ll get at it.
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To say we give away goals playing out from the back misses the point. We have in the past conceded goals by consistently hoofing it and gifting it back to the opposition, putting us under constant pressure, leading to silly goals.
Gifting goals is part and parcel of football, because it is played by human beings
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| LN8Mariner |
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Tweet 1730663128931700819 will appear here... For the record I actually don’t mind playing it around at the back but this is quite funny! |
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| Badger57 |
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Anaesthetic is over rated. I always thought whisky and biting a wooden stick was better.
No need for that modern excrement. An old urine bucket from under the bed and aunty Doris's flange flannel was all we needed back then. Bloody bunch of nancy boys these days. Tsk. |
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| Chrisblor |
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Neither of the goals we conceded today were a result of "playing around at the back". One came on a counter from a town corner and the second involved Maher losing the ball practically in Oxford's half with plenty of opportunity for town to defend the resulting counter attack. We've looked very good generally in possession in the first two games of Artellball, and anyone already suggesting we revert to direct tactics has lost the plot
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| gary jones |
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I’m not against passing out from the back. But there’s a difference between building from the back, and fannying around with it at the back unnecessarily.
I think the phrase ‘passing out from the back’ has come to mean fannying around at the back unnecessarily.
So, would I like to see the keeper roll it out to a full back, and us knock it around until we find a way to play it forward and between the lines? Yes. Still takes care and skill, and good judgment, but anyone who calls themselves a pro footballer should be capable of this.
Would I like to see us pass the ball across the face of our goal with opposing players closing in from all directions, simply because we ‘play out from the back’? No.
At this level at least, there comes a point when, if there’s no reasonable pass on, we have to hit it long.
This is where there’s a grey area. We’ve all seen defenders lose the ball or make silly errors that cost goals because they’re passing it around in dangerous areas.
Maybe some managers believe this is still a risk worth taking, but unfortunately average football fans are t able to measure how successful this approach is because when a goal is scored it’s hard to credit it on a moment two minutes earlier when the team drew the opposition out. It doesn’t have the clarity of a set-piece.
It’s an interesting discussion but as with everything in life it’s all about balance. By all means, play out from the back… but have a cut-off point. When it gets tight, you have to lump it.
And just because you lump it, it doesn’t make you any less intelligent a player. If anything, knowing when to abandon the passing is demonstrating intelligence.
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| chaos33 |
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Can I just be clear - I’ve given an opinion on the modern take on ‘playing out from the back’. I’m in no way suggesting we lump it. whack it, launch it, play long ball etc. My view is that we should be better at decision making. If the opposition high press, I’d want our first pass to be quick and fairly long. If they sit off, then we can build slowly. It’s d1cking about on the edge of our own box just to retain possession, and playing short passes sideways and back to the keeper just for the sake of not gambling that I think is very risky. However you play, you need good decision makers, and technically sound defenders. In my view, there are many teams who get this wrong, and I don’t want to see us do this. If we watch highlights shows tonight/tomorrow, I’d be willing to bet that there will be ample examples of teams getting this badly wrong and conceding goals. Our defence is porous and vulnerable enough to be compounding that with needless and niaive faffing of the type described above.
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No one was moaning after Tuesday when we played it out from the back .
People will have to get used to it anyway , but suspect the regulars who moan 'keep it on the ground ' when we go long will be saying 'get it forward ' when we roll it around at the back .
Didn't go today but not too bad by the sound of it .
Onto a big one on Saturday
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| smokey111 |
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No need for that modern excrement. An old urine bucket from under the bed and aunty Doris's flange flannel was all we needed back then. Bloody bunch of nancy boys these days. Tsk.
Haha, fair play. |
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| chaos33 |
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I’m not against passing out from the back. But there’s a difference between building from the back, and fannying around with it at the back unnecessarily.
I think the phrase ‘passing out from the back’ has come to mean fannying around at the back unnecessarily.
So, would I like to see the keeper roll it out to a full back, and us knock it around until we find a way to play it forward and between the lines? Yes. Still takes care and skill, and good judgment, but anyone who calls themselves a pro footballer should be capable of this.
Would I like to see us pass the ball across the face of our goal with opposing players closing in from all directions, simply because we ‘play out from the back’? No.
At this level at least, there comes a point when, if there’s no reasonable pass on, we have to hit it long.
This is where there’s a grey area. We’ve all seen defenders lose the ball or make silly errors that cost goals because they’re passing it around in dangerous areas.
Maybe some managers believe this is still a risk worth taking, but unfortunately average football fans are t able to measure how successful this approach is because when a goal is scored it’s hard to credit it on a moment two minutes earlier when the team drew the opposition out. It doesn’t have the clarity of a set-piece.
It’s an interesting discussion but as with everything in life it’s all about balance. By all means, play out from the back… but have a cut-off point. When it gets tight, you have to lump it.
And just because you lump it, it doesn’t make you any less intelligent a player. If anything, knowing when to abandon the passing is demonstrating intelligence.
Yes, this is a more clearly expressed explanation of what I am getting at. |
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| Maringer |
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I think the issue with lower division players can be that, once they are in the 'We've got to play it out from the back' mode, they continue trying to do it, even if they've overplayed and got themselves into trouble and need to just whack it upfield. The top level players are good enough not to generally get themselves into these positions, the odd situation aside. 4th division footballers generally aren't.
Nothing wrong with wanting to pass it as much as possible, but you've got to make sure that what you're doing is still sensible.
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For anyone who hasn't done the fa level 1 coaching course or know the rules for junior football, they encourage from an early age in England to play out from the back. Juniors have a retreat line when the opponents have a goal kick and this is 1 of a few reasons why they do that.
I have noticed playing out from the back the new thing to do and I have a different take on this, we read so much about players from years ago now suffering with problems associated with heading a football and usually when kicked out by the keeper the ball is usually propelled high into the sky and is usually then headed in one direction or another by whichever player gets to the ball first. Maybe the FA has decided to try and eliminate long lasting injuries to players by heading the ball from great heights by encouraging younger players to play the ball on the ground thus reducing the chances of developing problems in later life. |
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Just caught the last 5 minutes of Forest v Everton, Forest 1-0 down so really pushing for the equaliser. One time the Forest defender lumped up upfield and the ball finished with an Everton player, next time the Forest players passed it around and eventually got in a cross into the box. Granted these are premiership players and not division 4 players so they are more comfortable on the ball but have to agree with others that watching Man City at times although very skilful it can be very slow and boring, but by keeping possession it does mean the opposition have fewer chances to score. Also, I would say that Alan Buckley played possession style and it was quite successful.
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Neither of the goals we conceded today were a result of "playing around at the back". One came on a counter from a town corner and the second involved Maher losing the ball practically in Oxford's half with plenty of opportunity for town to defend the resulting counter attack. We've looked very good generally in possession in the first two games of Artellball, and anyone already suggesting we revert to direct tactics has lost the plot
Agreed. , I was a staunch hurst fan but for a few months the football was so bad I found the home games a chore. I walked out of most games saying that the opposition looked a much better football team. Time to try something different, there has to be a mid ground between playing out and being more direct |
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| mimma |
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I can remember er some conference teams playing it out from the back. Just practice practice and practice more.
It isn't about the player with the ball but other players around him giving him options
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| GrimPol |
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I hear what you say, but you need confident players with composure and skill. We just cannot afford to be giving goals away. We have lost 20 points from winning positions this season. The first prioity for the new manage should be getting us up the table.. I don’t think that will happen if we ship goals 'playing out’.
But you must agree that DA has had little training done. Two away matches eat into your training as you have to travel. He started Monday, probably had to do media rounds, and had an hour with the team. Tuesday was game day, so little time spent. Wednesday was off day as they had got home late. Thursday and Friday they trained. He's trying to undo the last regime system whilst imposing his own, whilst matches are being played. There must be a bit of "one lot are still playing the old way, and others are playing the new way in patches. But we are actually playing better. I'm not disheartened as such, although the counterattack from the corner and free headers says a lot. DA now can see what he has to fix. Onwards and upwards. UTM |
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| LocalLadGTFC |
| December 2, 2023, 11:49pm |
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Yes, this is a more clearly expressed explanation of what I am getting at.
Artell has had 3 training sessions with the team, probably one actual full session. He’s implemented his style on the team already and that’s how we’re going to play. Like Ange at Tottenham, he doesn’t see any other way of playing football. Sometimes it’ll win us games, sometimes it’ll lose us games but we’re going to have a good time along the way. Like he said himself it’s going to take time. Sometimes he’ll come off the pitch and have no explanation for what he’s just seen, but when it clicks we’ll be a success and we’ve already seen after 2 games in charge, 2 of the worst games you could of probably asked for by the way that we’re going to be fine. We aren’t fannying about with it at the back for no reason, the players will be drilled and learn to spot triggers. Triggers is a coaching term for when someone does something then you progress the ball forward. Man City have a trigger that when someone goes into press Rodri then Foden tucks in off the right and Walker creates an overload on the right hand side or vice versa dependant on what side of the play the ball is on. It’s quite obvious we’re going to look to create overloads in the wide areas and use Conteh as our ‘ Rodri ‘ so to speak. David will know full well what he needs in January already. You learn most about a player when he’s thrown into the deep end and I think DA will be quite pleased with what he’s seen, but he’s a perfectionist and listening to his past interviews he’s a coach. He likes to coach players and improve them so I don’t think we’ll see a lot of movement in January, maybe a couple additions for depth purposes but his bread and butter is improving players he already has and there’s a high ceiling with a lot of the players within this team. Centre half is a problem position for me though and I think the quicker we can get Charles back the better. |
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| forza ivano |
| December 3, 2023, 12:44am |
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the point, surely, is that under PH we were passing it around at the back, but it went nowhere, apart from back along the defensive line. Under Artell it's done with far more purpose, the ball gets played forward more often, more quickly. We did it successfully half a dozen time son Tuesday and several times today.
From what I've been told the only coaching this lot got was Doig bawling n screaming from the sideline. This guy's approach is a massive change and it will take some getting used to
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| chaos33 |
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Artell has had 3 training sessions with the team, probably one actual full session. He’s implemented his style on the team already and that’s how we’re going to play. Like Ange at Tottenham, he doesn’t see any other way of playing football. Sometimes it’ll win us games, sometimes it’ll lose us games but we’re going to have a good time along the way. Like he said himself it’s going to take time. Sometimes he’ll come off the pitch and have no explanation for what he’s just seen, but when it clicks we’ll be a success and we’ve already seen after 2 games in charge, 2 of the worst games you could of probably asked for by the way that we’re going to be fine. We aren’t fannying about with it at the back for no reason, the players will be drilled and learn to spot triggers. Triggers is a coaching term for when someone does something then you progress the ball forward. Man City have a trigger that when someone goes into press Rodri then Foden tucks in off the right and Walker creates an overload on the right hand side or vice versa dependant on what side of the play the ball is on. It’s quite obvious we’re going to look to create overloads in the wide areas and use Conteh as our ‘ Rodri ‘ so to speak. David will know full well what he needs in January already. You learn most about a player when he’s thrown into the deep end and I think DA will be quite pleased with what he’s seen, but he’s a perfectionist and listening to his past interviews he’s a coach. He likes to coach players and improve them so I don’t think we’ll see a lot of movement in January, maybe a couple additions for depth purposes but his bread and butter is improving players he already has and there’s a high ceiling with a lot of the players within this team. Centre half is a problem position for me though and I think the quicker we can get Charles back the better.
Good post. |
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| GrimPol |
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the point, surely, is that under PH we were passing it around at the back, but it went nowhere, apart from back along the defensive line. Under Artell it's done with far more purpose, the ball gets played forward more often, more quickly. We did it successfully half a dozen time son Tuesday and several times today.
From what I've been told the only coaching this lot got was Doig bawling n screaming from the sideline. This guy's approach is a massive change and it will take some getting used to
You have to admit that since Doncaster the matches are more watchable. The two matches with DA have been a step up. The only conclusion is that it's a pity DA wasn't in a bit earlier and that the trigger, using 20/20 hindsight, should have been much earlier on PH. |
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| lew chaterleys lover |
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the point, surely, is that under PH we were passing it around at the back, but it went nowhere, apart from back along the defensive line. Under Artell it's done with far more purpose, the ball gets played forward more often, more quickly. We did it successfully half a dozen time son Tuesday and several times today.
From what I've been told the only coaching this lot got was Doig bawling n screaming from the sideline. This guy's approach is a massive change and it will take some getting used to
That is exactly the point. Playing your way into attacking positions starts with the keeper, through the defenders and midfield to create chances. The alternative is to hoist it 60 yards and hope for the best. I hated Hurst's idea of possession football with this squad, as it was ridiculously slow and cumbersome, and the forward movement non existant, but that is not the way it should be played. Interesting you should mention the lack of coaching from the previous regime as that was so obvious from the stands. The giveaway was Hurst often saying he "told" the players and they didn't do it, and I presume that is why we endlessly signed players and replaced them without coaching them to their potential. |
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| chaos33 |
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That does look like a logical conclusion doesn’t it. Also, there often seemed to be little ‘in game’ coaching from PH; usually he was inanimate on the touch line with arms folded.
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| forza ivano |
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I think you may have hit the nail.on the head Lew. Hurst TOLD the players what to do, reinforced ( enforced?) by Doig shouting n screaming ar them.Old School.. Artell has the modern approach, arm round the shoulder, explaining, cajoling on how he wants to play, n why they need to do a,b or c
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| toontown |
| December 3, 2023, 10:29am |
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I think k it’s fair to say this - other than at the top level, ‘playing out from the back’ is going to cost you way more goals than it creates. You see it on highlights shows every week. In abundance. Watch a load of football at Championship level and below and refute that. I understand the notion of building play, and of not squandering or gambling with possession, but our defenders, by and large, have not looked dependable, consistent, sharp, and technical. On balance, I see this as a silly thing for us to be doing. It’s just a view though. If the management want to use that model- well they are way more qualified than me.
I watched Middlesbrough a lot last season and a bit this and they do this, very deliberately, under Carrick. They are a very good passing side. I’ve seen, time and again, them put themselves under ridiculous pressure and concede needless stupid goals, corners and chances because of it. From the stands - everyone is incredulous. I’ve yet to see it lead to 1 chance created thanks to 14 passes completed. Might work for Man City ….everyone else…..it’s a very high risk very low reward/yield strategy and I’m utterly amazed at how prevalent it is in the EFL.
In my opinion - and I’ve already stated that this isn’t worth tuppence as I’m not a professional coach….this is not what we should be doing and it will cause us needless pressure and avoidable goals.
Totally this. Successfully Playing out from the back, each time you do it, leads to a tiny fractional increase in likelihood of scoring a goal at the other end. Unsuccessfully playing it out from the back leads to an enormous risk of conceding. It's a very high risk, low reward tactic in my opinion. You can play good football without having the goalkeeper playing it to a defender under pressure on the edge of his own box with his back to the opposition. The likelihood of the above situation leading to a goal against is more than it leading to a goal for. |
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| ska face |
| December 3, 2023, 11:38am |
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You can play good football without having the goalkeeper playing it to a defender under pressure on the edge of his own box with his back to the opposition. The likelihood of the above situation leading to a goal against is more than it leading to a goal for.
And how often does that happen? Not like town fans to get worked up about an unlikely, imaginary scenario. Yeah you might see one or two examples a week on the highlights, out of probably 80-100 goals on an average weekend, but they’re notable by virtue of being unusual. Maybe 1 goal a week from how many hundreds or thousands of goal kicks & restarts? Over time - maybe not 5 days - you end up building a squad of players capable of better decision making. Better on the ball, braver, well drilled and with a better idea of what their next pass or movement will be. The sooner you get the ball into play, the sooner you can start to dictate what happens. A normal goal kick might get the ball 60 yards from your goal, but it’s a lottery what happens next - might go out of play, might run through, might come straight back down your throat, and 95% of the time you end up having to scrap it out in the middle of the park just to get possession in a congested area with players unsure if they’ll be going forwards or backwards. Hurst was always described as “pragmatic”, which is fair enough. But ultimately if you’re always setting up to stop how you think the opposition might play, or to stop certain scenarios, you’re just building a team of stoppers and hoping something drops for you at the other end, you’re not building your own capabilities. It also means you end up chopping & changing personnel, tactics, lineups every week, so players struggle to build familiarity and routine. I’d much rather us build our own capacity as a team, individuals, style of play etc. and have the opposition try and beat us at our game, than try & out think the opposition with a different strategy every match. |
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| lew chaterleys lover |
| December 3, 2023, 11:46am |
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And how often does that happen? Not like town fans to get worked up about an unlikely, imaginary scenario. Yeah you might see one or two examples a week on the highlights, out of probably 80-100 goals on an average weekend, but they’re notable by virtue of being unusual. Maybe 1 goal a week from how many hundreds or thousands of goal kicks & restarts?
Over time - maybe not 5 days - you end up building a squad of players capable of better decision making. Better on the ball, braver, well drilled and with a better idea of what their next pass or movement will be. The sooner you get the ball into play, the sooner you can start to dictate what happens. A normal goal kick might get the ball 60 yards from your goal, but it’s a lottery what happens next - might go out of play, might run through, might come straight back down your throat, and 95% of the time you end up having to scrap it out in the middle of the park just to get possession in a congested area with players unsure if they’ll be going forwards or backwards.
Hurst was always described as “pragmatic”, which is fair enough. But ultimately if you’re always setting up to stop how you think the opposition might play, or to stop certain scenarios, you’re just building a team of stoppers and hoping something drops for you at the other end, you’re not building your own capabilities. It also means you end up chopping & changing personnel, tactics, lineups every week, so players struggle to build familiarity and routine.
I’d much rather us build our own capacity as a team, individuals, style of play etc. and have the opposition try and beat us at our game, than try & out think the opposition with a different strategy every match.
That analysis is spot on. We have to build that identity and stick with it despite the outside chance of the odd difficult moment. Every signing from here on in will be with this particular way of playing in mind, rather than the scattergun and hope it all gels approach. |
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| buckstown |
| December 3, 2023, 12:15pm |
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The thing that struck me towards the end of the PH reign was our lack of movement. It’s ok getting your full back to bomb on but if everyone is standing still your stuffed
Saw was more movement at MK than we have for ages, and it’s the difference between playing out from the back with high risk factor and doing it with relative comfort
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| Garth |
| December 3, 2023, 12:19pm |
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Playing across the back is just plain dumb. Why it's the now accepted way defies logic. It was dumb then and it's still dumb now.
Coz it's the fashion, if someone decided they would play with large holes in their shorts and open sandles, they all would follow like sheep |
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| MuddyWaters |
| December 3, 2023, 12:29pm |
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The thing that struck me towards the end of the PH reign was our lack of movement. It’s ok getting your full back to bomb on but if everyone is standing still your stuffed
Saw was more movement at MK than we have for ages, and it’s the difference between playing out from the back with high risk factor and doing it with relative comfort
One of my biggest bugbears over the last two seasons was the lack of movement. It seemed strangely reassuring that the first clips of an Artell training session involved moving as soon as you've passed the ball. I expect our technically more talented players to get more game time as our style develops - that can only be a good thing. |
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