Formation

I feel the new formation we are playing this season, initially 4-2-3-1 and then changed to a usual 4-1-4-1 isn't helping us at all. As far as I can remember Hurst sides have struggled when playing 1 up front due to the lone front man being excessively isolated.

He started off with 4-4-2, when that was still a common formation, and often had a CM in one of the wide positions. I seem to remember us going 4-3-3 on occasion and it just didn't work

When he came back we had 4-4-1-1 with mcatee linking front and midfield, helping out in midfield but also supporting attacks.

Without mcatee we often had Taylor isolated up front last season. We often switched to a 3-5-2 with wing backs that Hurst admitted he didn't like but quite suited us last season. Glennon's defensive frailties were less exposed and his quality going forward helped that, we also had Emmanuel who looked good as a wing back at times. It also allowed us to play 2 up top so we didn't have an isolated striker.

This season with the 4-2-3-1 our wide men of the 3 were too busy being wide to get close to Rose. Our number 10 wasn't working and it seems the new formation hasn't resolved that conundrum. Having the spare man being in front of our back 4 instead of between striker and midfield has left us toothless and although conteh is good he isn't influencing games enough now his form has fallen away a bit.

I think Hurst teams will never make the lone front man work as he likes his wide players to defend and be wide, rather than getting in close to the striker to link with him. I can't recall him really getting that to click.

I'd much rather us go back to any of 4-4-2 (probably with a CM wide) or 4-4-1-1 or 3-5-2 to actually get us working up top.

Glennon is a good wing back with Maher behind him covering. efete is a poor full or wing back but has pace to help cover on the right of a back 3 and the stamina to get forward and be an extra spare man on occasion. We'd have to cut back on the knocking it around at the back if we had efete in there but we aren't doing anything productive with that at the moment anyway. I've always thought Clifton's best position is wing back so I'd be happy with him there on the right.

Or let's see if conteh can be more influential in a 2 man midfield with more players in forward positions for him to hit with passes. If it's that 4-4-1-1 formation rose is the equal of mcatee for effort to help out in the middle but also has some of the quality to get the striker involved. Hopefully Wilson is fit for that.

I doubt it'll happen but I think that's the most likely way to get a Hurst team to succeed, a formation that doesn't have an isolated front man.

I too would like to see wing backs, the problem with this is that we invested heavily in wide forwards in the summer with Vernam, Gnahoua and Eisa coming in alongside Khan and that formation renders them essentially unusable.

But wingbacks solves the two up top issue and gives Pyke another potential role. We're stacked at right wing back in fact, I'd be amazed to see us play that and play an out of sorts Clifton there.

It opens up another question of whether you'd drop Waterfall even if we played 3 CBs. Right now I'd probably say yes.

I've been quick to slate Efete in the past but I think you're being harsh on him to be honest, he's been consistent this season, often playing out of position too. If we were to give wingbacks another try I'd like to see:

GK: Eastwood
RWB: Mullarkey
CB: Efete
CB: Maher
CB: Rodgers
LWB: Glennon
DMC: Conteh
MC: Andrews
MC: Holohan
ST: Rose
ST: Wilson

We’ve got problems to fix, to say the least. Sack the manager? His replacement? 2 up front? New striker? But for me there’s another glaring problem.

Last couple of games I’ve started to think it’s actually our central midfield that’s our weakness rather than any other area. Until yesterday, we’ve been creating chances and scoring goals, even our strikers have been on the scoresheet in the last few weeks. But that midfield is amongst the worst we’ve had for a while, with the exception being Conteh, who you can still see has bags of quality, he just doesn’t have the same like minded players around him. It’s the other 2 positions we’ve struggled to fill, PH has tried pretty much everyone in there, Hunt, Holohan, Clifton and Andrews have all failed to nail down their place. None of them can command a game, get it by the scruff of the neck or create anything. I watched Notts v Mansfield yesterday, and people can talk about budgets etc but that game was full of good quality midfielders all battling for control of the game. Clifton and Andrews were awful yesterday, the worst 2 players on the pitch for me.

We need a change in there for me, as a priority over having 2 up front. Get control of the game and push the opponent back and the chances will come, for the striker, wingers and midfielders that can bomb on. A new addition in there is a top priority in January for me, someone to partner Conteh, maybe in a 2, with a number 10 in front, or to partner Gav as an 8 with Conteh behind. We’ve got a few issues at the minute but that midfield issue is the biggest for me.

We're at the stage where whatever formation we play will have very little effect. It's all about confidence and belief and both have disappeared due to the manager's decisions and demeanour. Dour and stubborn isn't going to fix this. A fresh start is needed.. for the players and the fans. All eras, good and bad, have to end sometime. I'm just frustrated and bored to death watching GTFC play league games, have been for a long time..

Quoted from Son of Cod

I too would like to see wing backs, the problem with this is that we invested heavily in wide forwards in the summer with Vernam, Gnahoua and Eisa coming in alongside Khan and that formation renders them essentially unusable.

But wingbacks solves the two up top issue and gives Pyke another potential role. We're stacked at right wing back in fact, I'd be amazed to see us play that and play an out of sorts Clifton there.

It opens up another question of whether you'd drop Waterfall even if we played 3 CBs. Right now I'd probably say yes.

I've been quick to slate Efete in the past but I think you're being harsh on him to be honest, he's been consistent this season, often playing out of position too. If we were to give wingbacks another try I'd like to see:

GK: Eastwood
RWB: Mullarkey
CB: Efete
CB: Maher
CB: Rodgers
LWB: Glennon
DMC: Conteh
MC: Andrews
MC: Holohan
ST: Rose
ST: Wilson

You say I'm being too harsh on efete then play him in the same position I say I would in a wingback system?

Mularkey would be myself second choice as right wing back but yeah I'd prefer Clifton who has the ability to get to the by line with a bit of pac e and put in a cross. He also has a far better engine than mularkey for keeping getting up and down defending and attacking the whole match. In that respect wing back suits his physical abilities more than some other areas. Mularkey may possibly have a better cross from distance than Clifton but hes hardly excelled at that so far. Clifton doesn't have height though and I think that would count against him with Hurst.

I totally agree with you about all the wide players such a position would leave redundant, apart from khan who has played wing back a fair bit I think (+ our striker pyke!). It would make a mockery of our summer recruitment and undermine Hurst with the board so probably not going to happen.

Quoted from toontown

You say I'm being too harsh on efete then play him in the same position I say I would in a wingback system?

Mularkey would be myself second choice as right wing back but yeah I'd prefer Clifton who has the ability to get to the by line with a bit of pac e and put in a cross. He also has a far better engine than mularkey for keeping getting up and down defending and attacking the whole match. In that respect wing back suits his physical abilities more than some other areas. Mularkey may possibly have a better cross from distance than Clifton but hes hardly excelled at that so far. Clifton doesn't have height though and I think that would count against him with Hurst.

I totally agree with you about all the wide players such a position would leave redundant, apart from khan who has played wing back a fair bit I think (+ our striker pyke!). It would make a mockery of our summer recruitment and undermine Hurst with the board so probably not going to happen.

When we played Rochdale last seaon, Mularkey played right of the three at the back and still got up and down freely so you maybe right about that with Clifton essentially hugging the touchline as a wing back

Quoted from toontown

You say I'm being too harsh on efete then play him in the same position I say I would in a wingback system?

Mularkey would be myself second choice as right wing back but yeah I'd prefer Clifton who has the ability to get to the by line with a bit of pac e and put in a cross. He also has a far better engine than mularkey for keeping getting up and down defending and attacking the whole match. In that respect wing back suits his physical abilities more than some other areas. Mularkey may possibly have a better cross from distance than Clifton but hes hardly excelled at that so far. Clifton doesn't have height though and I think that would count against him with Hurst.

I totally agree with you about all the wide players such a position would leave redundant, apart from khan who has played wing back a fair bit I think (+ our striker pyke!). It would make a mockery of our summer recruitment and undermine Hurst with the board so probably not going to happen.

Sorry should have clarified what I mean, I meant you were being harsh saying he's a poor wing/full back, as I don't really think that's fair. The reason I'd go with Mullarkey is one you've alluded to and that's that he's got a better delivery generally than Efete and is better at bringing the ball forward with a bit of purpose regularly. I'm never confident in Clifton putting a good ball in either but I do agree that he gets to the byline well. Mullarkey loves a chop inside too onto his left foot which can be dangerous if there's the right movement in the box. Pyke could be the best of the lot in that position though for all we know!

A braver and more attack minded manager would have a totally different system
Several times yesterday Clifton's passing was awful; Andrews is 20 (I think?) and another example of a player coming to us 'to learn the game' so inevitably he makes mistakes and is not a born leader; Holohan is all action but too often his passing is woeful; Green is a stopper and not in any way a ball player; Hunt is just not fancied and rarely plays

Compare with Notts C, Mansfield and even Barrow - they have any number of players very comfortable on the ball who also work hard

Hard work, graft etc gets you so far but it is ultimately quality that brings success and that means players who are progressive, positive, and can pick out a pass

Where I do feel sorry for Hurst is our 'creative' players are too often poor - 1 good game in 10 - so he goes for graft and hard work

Even Buckley was never afraid to buy/pick a target man - the team would then often play through him and the passing footy would flow; Hurst has paid a huge price for not investing in one

My mate said yesterday 'he's just lost his way' and is fast losing the players and fans

I've always been pro Hurst but my patience is waning fast - not least cos I think we have some very good players at L2 level but they are shackled by a boring and defensive, safety first system

One of Hurst issues is playing too defensive....

Four at the back yesterday and then playing Conteh in defensive midfield, who was that far back he was touching the dock tower.

Play Conteh in midfield, in 4-4-2 and let him drive forward, like he did for Gateshead.

Whatever the formation the self-belief of the players is shot, they can't string a set of meaningful passes together. It hurts to watch.
The best formation next match is 10-0-0 or even better  10-5-5 and hope the ref can't count.

They have to go back to basics.