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Formation

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Lincoln Mariner 56
October 15, 2023, 10:29pm
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We can urine and moan all week long about what needs doing, what formation is needed, who is or isnt playing well etc etc but none of this gets back to the people who it is aimed at.

If we need to get our true feelings across, and guarantee that at least some of those up top see what we want to get across, messages on banners attached to bridges over the M180/A180. Something like that would probably get the local rag reporting on it, and possibly social media. Something needs to be done, short of protests at the ground


Seriously? I want change but surely as fans of the club we continue to support Hurst on match days until the board decide otherwise. Other posters have commented about treating Hurst with the respect he deserves and I have no reason to disagree with that despite my feelings on his style of play. Ideally we go away and win at Stockport, stuff Colchester and get something from Donny. That I accept is very unlikely and all I want is to support a competitive team that make going to BP a worthwhile and enjoyable experience, which is unlikely under PH but banners over bridges, really?

If you don’t think our board and CEO don’t read the fishy you are very naive of course they do and from Hurst’s interviews I’m pretty sure he does despite him claiming others have told him what the fans are saying.

The board are successful businessmen and I trust them to make the right decision at the right time even if I think it should be today, tomorrow or next month.
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Maringer
October 15, 2023, 10:44pm
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I keep hearing about us having technically better players this season, but they haven't exactly made themselves particularly apparent in many of the games I've seen. Conteh looks good a lot of the time but coughed up possession with fluffed passes a few times yesterday. Andrews was poor yesterday (though I think he's generally pretty good technically). Mullarkey and Gnahoua both look after the ball pretty well, Eisa is either on it or completely out of the game and, of course, Rose is capable, even though he's feeding on scraps. Ultimately, from back to front, the passing just hasn't been nearly good enough and it is maddening just how poor simple passes out to the full-backs and wingers have been - slow, behind the man when he is running forward or simply way off target or underhit.

We're obviously in a poor run of form and everthing tends to go bad when things aren't going well, but I really was expecting better.

It occurred to me the other day how incredibly inexperienced our central midfield options are - at League level, especially.

Holohan is experienced, but hasn't played a huge amount of League football. Clifton has rarely played centrally, whether in Non-League or the League. Hunt isn't trusted by Hurst (and I'm not convinced), but has less than 50 senior starts under his belt. Thanoj injured, but only about a dozen League starts. Conteh is only in his second season of senior football - his only League experience is with us. Andrews has made a dozen senior appearances in his career. Green has one season of League football under his belt, rarely as first choice and, of course, he's injured as well.

The signing of Ainley seems to me to have been an, 'Oh, crap', moment from Hurst as he realised the lack of experience we have in the middle. Obviously, the injuries haven't helped and then Ainley got crocked as well, but it's no surprise we're getting out-thought and out-played in the centre of the park by teams with more experienced and wilier than our bunch of novices.
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jimgtfc
October 16, 2023, 12:15am
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Quoted from mariner91


I think there are other areas that are very weak and some glaring weaknesses in the squad but I would agree that centre mid is where the bulk of the problems stem from. Hurst set out this season with the plan to try and play more possession based football but forget to sign enough central midfielders capable of doing this. Conteh is a fantastic addition with bags of potential who at his best has the power, intelligence and technical ability to pick the ball up under pressure and make quick, consistently accurate passes. But even he has regressed recently, likely as a consequence of the incompetence around him.

Hunt - I don't have a strong opinion either way on Hunt. He is undoubtedly better on the ball than all of the other central midfielders still here from last season. He has also not been given enough chances. Yes he gives the ball away sometimes but Clifton gives the ball away far more but keeps getting picked. I don't see the point in paying a fee for him and giving him a three year contract to not even include him in the match day squads or to drop him every time he makes a mistake.

Holohan - bags of effort, all action and good at breaking up play. Pops up with the odd great goal as well. But his passing is inconsistent at best and he's not good in tight situations where his ball control is often found wanting. He's not a bad player at all and he's a top bloke but there's a reason he's spent most of his career in the League of Ireland or non league. He wouldn't be a starter in a team troubling the play offs.

Green - has been injured but is nowhere near good enough on the ball for a team looking to play through the thirds. Great battler and offers a lot of fighting spirit but an exceptionally limited footballer. Again, he's 26 but has only spent one season in the FL and there's a reason for this.

Clifton - I'm going to get pelters for this but I think Clifton is actually a fairly rubbish central midfielder for L2. Or at least I'll qualify that and say he's nowhere near good enough to be starting in centre mid in a team looking to play possession based, progressive football. He's fantastic when the game is in transition, has a wonderful work rate and a top class engine. He's also clearly a fantastic young man with an amazing attitude. BUT he isn't actually very good with a football at all. If you're looking to play as a hard working, counter attacking team then he can do okay but a lot of his better performances have come out wide. Personally I don't think he has the awareness to play centrally and is better out wide where the game is nearly always in front of him. His passing is poor and he gives the ball away countless times and his footwork and ball control are nowhere near good enough to play on the half turn in tight areas. Essentially, he isn't any good at the critical parts of the game for a central midfielder in a possession based team. And that isn't his fault, it's the management's fault for keeping playing him when his form has been very poor and for trying to shoe horn him in to a system and playing style that doesn't suit him at all. Having said that, he was absolutely abysmal yesterday.

Andrews and Khouri - can't blame Andrews too much. He's a young lad who's done okay at times but is still learning the game. And we've barely seen anything of Khouri for whatever reason.

I think the squad needs at least four quality additions to be good. A goalkeeper as neither of ours are any good, Eastwood is a definite downgrade on Crocombe. A competent left back. A striker who can offer a bit more physical presence and hold up play to either help Rose out or give us another option. And the crucial one is a central midfielder who can actually play through the thirds. The gap between the back five outfield players and the more forward players is huge every time we have the ball. None of our midfielders find space between the lines to link up play and we end up just lumping it aimlessly forward. It'll be the easiest game the opposing centre mids have all season at the minute.


You’re absolutely bang on with all of that mate.


"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"

John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
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sam gy
October 16, 2023, 9:34am
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For me the big issue is absolutely the lack of creativity and nouse in CM. Honestly, Bryn Morris would WALK into our CM right now.

We really miss McAtee as a forward with bags of energy and someone who can drop into midfield and link the attack. He really was an absolute gem and SO hard to replace. On paper I guess Ainley was maybe brought in to kinda do that role or even provide a bit of creativity in CM.

Eisa is perhaps a bit of a problem for us, and hear me out as  i know that sounds a bit nuts given his start and he has an amazing attribute in his shot from distance. Those goals have almost made him undroppable as he can always pull that rabbit out of the hat. BUT, honestly, does he bring much else to the team in terms of his all round play? Does he get crosses into the box? Play good through balls? Take his man on successfully that much? Offer much protection to his full back? I’m not so sure.

For me, when Khan is back he gets the nod ahead of him. He’s much better on the left and cutting in. And I like Arthur on the right.


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diehardmariner
October 16, 2023, 10:25am
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I don't think it does sound nuts at all.  Eisa's last five performances in a Town shirt have been anonymous to say the least. The issue is that both Khan and Gnahoua are as ineffective as each other in wide areas.  Both nice and tidy on the ball, hold onto it well, help their fullback out and generally very good team players, but their end product is limited.  Khan got the bit between his teeth for a period last season when he was scoring for fun but since then he's not threatened anywhere near enough. Injuries haven't helped but I don't think he's scored or made an assist in getting on for a year now.

With a striker that's so isolated and a midfield that generally offers absolutely nothing as an attacking threat, even more so without Holohan in there, you probably need at least one of your wingers capable of that piece of magic.  Otherwise your chances of scoring goes from slim to non-existent.

Tommy nails it.  The formation isn't the problem, it's the philosophy behind it that is killing us.  This 4-1-4-1 could easily be a very high system that leads to a five-man swarming attacking in the opposition half.  I actually think we've got the players to do it as well, but instead it just becomes two lines of four with Conteh sitting perfectly in the middle of it all.  To say it's rigid is kind.

We seemingly found a philosophy that would compliment the players in the summer and vice-versa. Yet at the first little wobble it was abandoned and Hurst reverted to type.  Raiding full-backs are sitting deeper, centre-backs are just getting rid rather than bringing it out from the back, Conteh is doing less of the drawing people in and breaking opposition lines, the midfield isn't pressing as high and as often anymore, the wingers are just doubling up as wingbacks and poor Danny Rose is just running round chasing shadows.  

Hurst's default mindset is fine, it has a role to play and we've used it quite effectively before.  But I don't think the recruitment in the summer or over the last 12 months is geared towards that anymore.  Maher, Rodgers, Mullarkey, Conteh, Hunt, Eisa, Vernam (injured, I know), even Rose. These are not grind out and battle your way to victory type players.  There's a huge contrast between the current 'style' and what these players are capable of doing.  If the plan was always to just grind out again, then we should have recruited appropriately to reflect this.  It's one or the other, it can't be both.
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DB
October 16, 2023, 4:10pm
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I think I heard Southgate say ' If you think you might not win the game, make sure you don't lose it ' which is good with several minutes left. What I don't expect is a team to come out from the start with that attitude, beit from the players or management. Games are there to be won over the 90+ mins.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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