Have we improved the playing positions...?

Discussing with a friend last night, and based on the first quarter of the season, does it look like we've improved the playing positions?
This is my opinion only and theres a long way to go, but just looking at peoples thoughts in the first few games.

Eastwood for Crocombe - No
In my opinion this is tight, but personally I would just take Crocombe over Eastwood.
Despite his kicking, I feel Crocombe was a better shot stopper, more comanding in the box and communicated better.
He's started 9 of Burtons games in the league above, so shows their manager rates him aswell.

Mullarkey for Efete - Only Just
People won't like this, but defensivley Mullarkey is not much better than Efete. Its apparaent by the amount of times players have got round the back of him.
I think he is just a little bit better in an attacking sense, however Efete used to get some unfair critisism and in my opinion theirs not much between them.

Rodgers for Andy Smith - No.
Tight one this, but i think we have to remember than Andy Smith is still very young and is learning his trade.
He recieved some unfair critisism last seson when he had a few poor games, but he clearly had something about him (and thats proven with his improved contract at Hull).
I think honestly, people wouldn't be too concerned if we were to bring Andy back on loan and Rodgers was left out.

Conteh for Morris - Yes
Conteh has shown some potential in his first few games but he seriously needs to improve his disciplinary record.
At this rate, hes going to miss more games that he plays for us, with suspensions and internaitonal call ups.

Abo Eisa - Yes (but no real comparison)
Abo has easily brought us something else on that left hand side, but its difficult to say if hes improved us, as we never had a continuous left winger.

Rose for McAtee - Undecided
Difficult one to say as McAtee towards the end with us wasn't the same player. But that may be to do with the rumoured fall out.
He's clearly doing well with Barnsley in the league above.
Rose is good and maybe abit unfair as hes quite isolated up front but he needs to concentrate on linking up play more than throwing himself to the floor.

Wilson for Orsi - No (Slightly Unfair)
A little unfair this one, because Wilson looked sharp in the couple cameos hes had, but there has to be concerned about his fitness.
Orsi didnt get a run of games for us last season, despite putting in some good performances (mostly in the FA Cup) and its showing that with a run of games, he can find the net.

Pyke for George Lloyd - No
A little unfair on Pyke has he hasnt been given a run of games, but without a shadow, Lloyd has a far superior work rate that Pyke.
Not only that, he chipped in with a few goals, more than i think Pyke will do.
Would I take Lloyd pushing Pyke out the squad. Without a shadow of doubt I would

Fom the above, I believe we havent improved certain positions greatly, which is worrying based on our rumoured 'vastly improved budget'.
Its a long way to go, dont get me wrong and I hope that im fully proved wrong, but at the minute i dont see how this team improves on our position last year.

I'd love to see what others think.

Quoted from Corkyefes

Discussing with a friend last night, and based on the first quarter of the season, does it look like we've improved the playing positions?
This is my opinion only and theres a long way to go, but just looking at peoples thoughts in the first few games.

Eastwood for Crocombe - No
In my opinion this is tight, but personally I would just take Crocombe over Eastwood.
Despite his kicking, I feel Crocombe was a better shot stopper, more comanding in the box and communicated better.
He's started 9 of Burtons games in the league above, so shows their manager rates him aswell.

Mullarkey for Efete - Only Just
People won't like this, but defensivley Mullarkey is not much better than Efete. Its apparaent by the amount of times players have got round the back of him.
I think he is just a little bit better in an attacking sense, however Efete used to get some unfair critisism and in my opinion theirs not much between them.

Rodgers for Andy Smith - No.
Tight one this, but i think we have to remember than Andy Smith is still very young and is learning his trade.
He recieved some unfair critisism last seson when he had a few poor games, but he clearly had something about him (and thats proven with his improved contract at Hull).
I think honestly, people wouldn't be too concerned if we were to bring Andy back on loan and Rodgers was left out.

Conteh for Morris - Yes
Conteh has shown some potential in his first few games but he seriously needs to improve his disciplinary record.
At this rate, hes going to miss more games that he plays for us, with suspensions and internaitonal call ups.

Abo Eisa - Yes (but no real comparison)
Abo has easily brought us something else on that left hand side, but its difficult to say if hes improved us, as we never had a continuous left winger.

Rose for McAtee - Undecided
Difficult one to say as McAtee towards the end with us wasn't the same player. But that may be to do with the rumoured fall out.
He's clearly doing well with Barnsley in the league above.
Rose is good and maybe abit unfair as hes quite isolated up front but he needs to concentrate on linking up play more than throwing himself to the floor.

Wilson for Orsi - No (Slightly Unfair)
A little unfair this one, because Wilson looked sharp in the couple cameos hes had, but there has to be concerned about his fitness.
Orsi didnt get a run of games for us last season, despite putting in some good performances (mostly in the FA Cup) and its showing that with a run of games, he can find the net.

Pyke for George Lloyd - No
A little unfair on Pyke has he hasnt been given a run of games, but without a shadow, Lloyd has a far superior work rate that Pyke.
Not only that, he chipped in with a few goals, more than i think Pyke will do.
Would I take Lloyd pushing Pyke out the squad. Without a shadow of doubt I would

Fom the above, I believe we havent improved certain positions greatly, which is worrying based on our rumoured 'vastly improved budget'.
Its a long way to go, dont get me wrong and I hope that im fully proved wrong, but at the minute i dont see how this team improves on our position last year.

I'd love to see what others think.

Sounds about right to me  FWIW

We don't have a choice on Smith, McAtee, Lloyd. They aren't our players. Can get a begging bowl out, but I think it's against the law to knock out their chairman and use their hand to sign the loan agreement.

We lost Lloyd, and McAtee. We brought in Rose and Wilson for them.

We let Taylor and Orsi go and brought in Pyke.

We brought in Rodgers as we had a Smith shaped hole to fill.

We let Wearne go and brought in Eisa.

Morris out, Conteh in.

Emmanuel left and we brought in Mullarkey.

The decisions we had was to allow Crocombe be a guaranteed starter and hope he signs whebever we choose or make a decision in time to replace.

So technically, Morris, Orsi, Wearne were the choices we really had.

Pyke vs Orsi, and Wilson vs Taylor are fair comparisons. Wilson, hands down. Orsi, I don't know yet. I'll let it play out. Hurst doesn't play folk if you don't train well. Orsi did good stuff and then disappeared. Hurst says he was lovely, so we can only assume something wasn't quite right in training. I personally think Pyke will come good. He just needed some time and was thrown in the fire too quick when retraining  back to striker.

I personally think the decisions Hurst was spot on.

My doubt was Mullarkey being our forth choice CB, and not having a player who can play up front as a forth choice if we get injuries. Which has kicked our bottom a bit.

I don’t think max and jake is tight at all, max was far better

Quoted from denni266

Sounds about right to me  FWIW

I don’t think it really matters about a player’s individual merits, it’s surely more important that they gel as a team, isn’t it? I notice Stephen Wearne mentioned as a comparison for example. He only played 10 times for us, mostly in the Trophy so I’m not sure we saw enough of him to express an opinion.

Quoted from Neilo83

I don’t think max and jake is tight at all, max was far better

I agree with that. I think our goalkeeping recruitment has been very poor if Cartwright can't get a look in either.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

We don't have a choice on Smith, McAtee, Lloyd. They aren't our players. Can get a begging bowl out, but I think it's against the law to knock out their chairman and use their hand to sign the loan agreement.

We lost Lloyd, and McAtee. We brought in Rose and Wilson for them.

We let Taylor and Orsi go and brought in Pyke.

We brought in Rodgers as we had a Smith shaped hole to fill.

We let Wearne go and brought in Eisa.

Morris out, Conteh in.

Emmanuel left and we brought in Mullarkey.

The decisions we had was to allow Crocombe be a guaranteed starter and hope he signs whebever we choose or make a decision in time to replace.

So technically, Morris, Orsi, Wearne were the choices we really had.

Pyke vs Orsi, and Wilson vs Taylor are fair comparisons. Wilson, hands down. Orsi, I don't know yet. I'll let it play out. Hurst doesn't play folk if you don't train well. Orsi did good stuff and then disappeared. Hurst says he was lovely, so we can only assume something wasn't quite right in training. I personally think Pyke will come good. He just needed some time and was thrown in the fire too quick when retraining  back to striker.

I personally think the decisions Hurst was spot on.

My doubt was Mullarkey being our forth choice CB, and not having a player who can play up front as a forth choice if we get injuries. Which has kicked our bottom a bit.

I don't think the original post was criticising PH for losing those players, it was just a comparison of our squad last season to this, so comparing what Hurst brought in to replace the ones that left

Whether players left after loan deals or were moved on by our own choices is irrelevant really. What's important is how we've replaced players. How we're evolving and developing as a squad. Because if we're not improving our squad with recruitment we're not progressing and will either stand still or drop behind in our L2 standing.

I think everyone accepts that no manager ever gets a 100% success rate with signings. At any level. But there needs to be a general upward trend with it, particularly when expectations are raised with increased budgets and fees paid out for players etc.

As a side note, I wouldn't compare McAtee to anyone we have in our squad. Unless Ainley is going to be a no.10, I don't think anyone else plays that particular role in the team, so it's difficult to try and compare Rose or any other forward to McAtee and judge them on that.

Think a more telling/accurate comparison could be made between some of the players who were retained & how they’ve done this season:

Glennon - miles off it. Was one of the standouts at the start of last season but had been limited to 3 league appearances this season, being pulled after 30 mins at Notts County then arguably at fault for 2 against Crawley.

Waterfall - was a real leader at the centre of defence last year & carried on his great form from the conference. This year looking out of place in a disjointed & unsettled defence.

Maher - much better when he’s played, game plan seems to suit him in possession and been strong defensively. Missing him through injuries though, limited to just 6 league appearances.

Efete - done well & showed versatility slotting in on the left, but think we’re all still waiting for him to really kick on. Think he’s a 7/10 most weeks and hasn’t really been at fault for anything so far this year.

Holohan - a bit hit & miss but think he’s done well at times, benefits from having a holding midfielder sat behind him. Not sure he’ll match the 51 appearances he made last year.

Clifton - was probably playing well above his level last year at times and hasn’t really come close to those heights this year.

Khan - again impact limited through injury, playing just 5 times so far, but seems less impactful and not as direct as he was last season. Had always been in & out of games, but seems to lack the bit of dynamism he had last year at times.

Hunt - consistently inconsistent, would be a major shame if he lets this season pass him by.


So in all of that lot, there’s only really Maher who’s improved on last season whereas 3 or 4 who were really key players last season have gone backwards.

Lloyd was only brought in on loan in January so he can't be used as a comparison to our season starting team now.

Pyke replaced Orsi and is definitely worse so far

Wow ..To be honest  an interesting  thread !!
"A BIG IF!" = IF fans bought players/ voted on who they wanted.
Then there would be no moaning etc..Coz we bought / brought them in.
It would be a different  team
Lets enjoy the rest of the season Who knows what January coul bring in - send on their way
UTM 2023-24

I know it doesn't answer the question but I don't think we have improved in either of the last 2 seasons .We do have a happier club than our non league days though.

Quoted from The Caterham Mariner

Wow ..To be honest  an interesting  thread !!
"A BIG IF!" = IF fans bought players/ voted on who they wanted.
Then there would be no moaning etc..Coz we bought / brought them in.
It would be a different  team
Lets enjoy the rest of the season Who knows what January coul bring in - send on their way
UTM 2023-24

That's our issue though isn't it - yet again we are 'waiting for a transfer window ' . Big changes no doubt as we can already see some are out in the cold , before fall .

How many will we be looking to ship out ? 3 or 4 at least probably , maybe more - with a similiar amount coming in you would have thought .

As I've mentioned before.

Same players, different names.

Quoted from cannylad65

As I've mentioned before.

Same players, different names.

Sometimes I'm watching Conteh or Eisa, and I forget we let Morris and Wearne go. Barely any difference...

What a silly view.

Obviously you have not watched Eastwood.

Or Pyke.

For all the criticism Pyke is getting, he's got three goals already this season which is not thst shabby for a third choice striker.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

Sometimes I'm watching Conteh or Eisa, and I forget we let Morris and Wearne go. Barely any difference...

What a silly view.

I think it's a bit more of a nuanced conversation than that , but the view is not so silly in my opinion .

Yes as you rightly point out those 2 players are undoubted upgrades , but unfortunately the problem areas (so far and from last season ) have not been fixed - the man/men  up top and a creative or box to box midfield player .

Wilson might be a solution , but we don't know do we ; much like Ainley - they need to have a run of games , but judging on the first quarter of the season that won't happen anytime soon .

Add to that the  position I have had boxed off  for the last couple of years as solid and non problematic , at left back , which has seemingly become another problem area .

I do really like the addition of Rodgers alongside Maher and would not take many over that at league 2 level .

Eastwood is a good keeper for me , some seem to have doubts - there may well not be much between him and Crocombe but I'm hardly seeing keepers every week that are miles better than either of  them , or even better at all actually .

I would say we have half a team that are probably better than league 2 , then half a team of average league 2 players or below and that's why we are so inconsistent , added with inconsistent formations so far and lack of availability to put out our best team.

We really need to make substantial progress in the next 8 or us 'doom mongers' as you call us will raise our heads ;  hopefully not and we will do well - i still think a relatively comfy season between 10th-16th is in store .

I suppose if that's the predictable case , it will be for others to decide whether that's enough with their continued support through the gate - I will go whatever and get behind the lads but it's not always the easyiest sell in it's current form of entertainment and you could see why people would choose a more gratifying hobby on a Saturday afternoon .

Rodgers not as good as Smith? Stopped reading after that.

I would say that we have improved in a few positions, but we haven't yet morphed into a better all round team. The togetherness of last season's team isn't quite there yet.

I think that if and when we do though, we will be a better footballing side. It's been there in spells, but not got consistency yet. Probably needs 2 or 3 more players in Jan and getting key players fit, but I think the results will improve up to the half way point of the season.

Ask again after another 10 games.

Quoted from Grantley

Rodgers not as good as Smith? Stopped reading after that.

I said its tight, but its just my opinion thats hes slightly better than Rodgers.
I think Smith has more potential, was quicker, read the game well and didn't get beat too much for his age and experience.

I'll gladly have £100 bet with you that Smith has a better career than Rodgers (say by the time they've both reached 32 - Cancelled if any of them gets a major injury)?

If you going to disagree, at least give some reason as of to why.

Quoted from Mappers

I think it's a bit more of a nuanced conversation than that , but the view is not so silly in my opinion .

Yes as you rightly point out those 2 players are undoubted upgrades, but unfortunately the problem areas (so far and from last season ) have not been fixed - the man/men up top and a creative or box to box midfield player .

Wilson might be a solution, but we don't know do we; much like Ainley - they need to have a run of games, but judging on the first quarter of the season that won't happen anytime soon .

Add to that the position I have had boxed off  for the last couple of years as solid and non problematic, at left back, which has seemingly become another problem area .

I do really like the addition of Rodgers alongside Maher and would not take many over that at league 2 level .

Eastwood is a good keeper for me, some seem to have doubts - there may well not be much between him and Crocombe but I'm hardly seeing keepers every week that are miles better than either of  them, or even better at all actually.

I would say we have half a team that are probably better than league 2 , then half a team of average league 2 players or below and that's why we are so inconsistent , added with inconsistent formations so far and lack of availability to put out our best team.

We really need to make substantial progress in the next 8 or us 'doom mongers' as you call us will raise our heads ;  hopefully not and we will do well - i still think a relatively comfy season between 10th-16th is in store .

I suppose if that's the predictable case , it will be for others to decide whether that's enough with their continued support through the gate - I will go whatever and get behind the lads but it's not always the easyiest sell in it's current form of entertainment and you could see why people would choose a more gratifying hobby on a Saturday afternoon .

Good post and discussions, but I would have to disagree on the highlighted bit, as in my opinion theres only Conteh and Eisa (on his day) whos shown glimpses that they could play higher than league 2.
Maybe Rodgers and Maher if i was being more fair, but they would be the lower end of league one.

We will grind out some results this year but I can only see us finishing mid table this season (hopefully I'm wrong). I cannot see us improving on last years position but appreciate theirs a long way to go.

But my point was having we improved pplayers in certain positions and i think honestly its more of a no, than a yes.

Quoted from Corkyefes

Good post and discussions, but I would have to disagree on the highlighted bit, as in my opinion theres only Conteh and Eisa (on his day) whos shown glimpses that they could play higher than league 2.
Maybe Rodgers and Maher if i was being more fair, but they would be the lower end of league one.

We will grind out some results this year but I can only see us finishing mid table this season (hopefully I'm wrong). I cannot see us improving on last years position but appreciate theirs a long way to go.

But my point was having we improved pplayers in certain positions and i think honestly its more of a no, than a yes.

5 of our signings have all played in League 1. Rose, Eisa, Pyke, Gnahoua and Rodgers, with the last three playing in that league last season.

Quoted from ginnywings

I would say that we have improved in a few positions, but we haven't yet morphed into a better all round team. The togetherness of last season's team isn't quite there yet.

I think that if and when we do though, we will be a better footballing side. It's been there in spells, but not got consistency yet. Probably needs 2 or 3 more players in Jan and getting key players fit, but I think the results will improve up to the half way point of the season.

Ask again after another 10 games.

I agree with that plus the fact Hurst has given 2/3 year contracts would seem to indicate he's building a team for next season. Time will tell but we still need a good run this season.

Rodgers. Mullarkey. Conteh. Rose all upgrades. The rest I'm not 100% convinced.
Some may say it's harsh leaving Eisa off of the list, he may well get added as time goes on and if Wilson could stay fit i believe he would he an improvement but again time will tell.

Quoted from lukeo

Rodgers. Mullarkey. Conteh. Rose all upgrades. The rest I'm not 100% convinced.
Some may say it's harsh leaving Eisa off of the list, he may well get added as time goes on and if Wilson could stay fit i believe he would he an improvement but again time will tell.

First 6 games Rodgers was great but much less so without Maher. Again, Conteh was great at the start but seems less confident now. Mullarkey is a decent right back but doesn’t offer as much going forward as Efete and I don’t think we’ll see the best of Rose until we get a goal scorer alongside him.

As has been said before, the individual parts look decent but the sum of the parts less so.

Quoted from ginnywings

5 of our signings have all played in League 1. Rose, Eisa, Pyke, Gnahoua and Rodgers, with the last three playing in that league last season.

Maybe so but they weren't wanted by clubs in Div.1 this season

Quoted from Corkyefes

I said its tight, but its just my opinion thats hes slightly better than Rodgers.
I think Smith has more potential, was quicker, read the game well and didn't get beat too much for his age and experience.

I'll gladly have £100 bet with you that Smith has a better career than Rodgers (say by the time they've both reached 32 - Cancelled if any of them gets a major injury)?

If you going to disagree, at least give some reason as of to why.

Maybe Smith will have a better career but he was never our player and we couldn't haven't signed him if we wanted to. Rodgers is very good for our level and if he can get a prolonged partnership with Maher then we will have a good centre- back pairing that would see us into the lower half of League 1.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I don’t think we’ll see the best of Rose until we get a goal scorer alongside him.

Rose has scored 4 goals in 10 games. That's a pretty decent record for a 'goalscorer', let alone a striker who has generally been leading the line on his own and mostly against the stronger teams in the division. If he keeps that up, he'll score close to 20 goals this season.

He's done a great job so far and the only issue has been nobody to back him up or the chance to give him a bit of a breather. This is where Wilson and Pyke will hopefully be able to contribute more in due course...

Quoted from MuddyWaters

First 6 games Rodgers was great but much less so without Maher. Again, Conteh was great at the start but seems less confident now. Mullarkey is a decent right back but doesn’t offer as much going forward as Efete and I don’t think we’ll see the best of Rose until we get a goal scorer alongside him.

As has been said before, the individual parts look decent but the sum of the parts less so.

Which is really odd as PH teams are usually the exact opposite.

Quoted from Corkyefes

I said its tight, but its just my opinion thats hes slightly better than Rodgers.
I think Smith has more potential, was quicker, read the game well and didn't get beat too much for his age and experience.

I'll gladly have £100 bet with you that Smith has a better career than Rodgers (say by the time they've both reached 32 - Cancelled if any of them gets a major injury)?

If you going to disagree, at least give some reason as of to why.

Seems like you’re comparing apples with oranges. Smith had been playing for us since Jan ‘22 and in his first few games, in the conference, didn’t look much cop according to most on here. Rodgers had a great start in his first few games and is head & shoulders above where Smith was in the same point of their GTFC careers.

Same with Orsi. By this time last year he’d scored one in the FL Trophy and had struggled to force Bim Pepple out the of the lineup. Seems like new players are being compared to what he’s done this season rather than what he delivered last year (4 in 32).

All well & good making a view with the benefit of hindsight, but doesn’t afford new players the same luxury does it?

Quoted from ginnywings

5 of our signings have all played in League 1. Rose, Eisa, Pyke, Gnahoua and Rodgers, with the last three playing in that league last season.

True, but because they were playing there previously, doesn't neccessrily mean they are capable of playing there anymore.
If they were truely league one quality players, why have they not been snapped up by League 1 teams?

Like I said before, Eisa could (when hes on his game) and probably Rodgers, but the others not, in my opinion.

Quoted from ska face

Seems like you’re comparing apples with oranges. Smith had been playing for us since Jan ‘22 and in his first few games, in the conference, didn’t look much cop according to most on here. Rodgers had a great start in his first few games and is head & shoulders above where Smith was in the same point of their GTFC careers.

Same with Orsi. By this time last year he’d scored one in the FL Trophy and had struggled to force Bim Pepple out the of the lineup. Seems like new players are being compared to what he’s done this season rather than what he delivered last year (4 in 32).

All well & good making a view with the benefit of hindsight, but doesn’t afford new players the same luxury does it?

Like i mentioned, the Smith/Rodgers was is tight, but if it came in the news that we had signed Smith and Rodgers was on the bench, i wouldn't be upset.

With Orsi, he simply never got a run of games to prove himself. Whether or not he has a good season this year, who knows, but its not looking a great decision from Hurst at the minute.

Quoted from Corkyefes

Like i mentioned, the Smith/Rodgers was is tight, but if it came in the news that we had signed Smith and Rodgers was on the bench, i wouldn't be upset.

But if after Smith’s first 11 games in the conference it turned out we’d signed a defender who was the standout player in a L1 defence the season before, you’d probably have a different view. That’s the point.

Quoted from Corkyefes

True, but because they were playing there previously, doesn't neccessrily mean they are capable of playing there anymore.
If they were truely league one quality players, why have they not been snapped up by League 1 teams?

Like I said before, Eisa could (when hes on his game) and probably Rodgers, but the others not, in my opinion.

There's always a but...

Last season we played really badly, particularly in the first half of games, for the first quarter or so of the season but Crocombe was probably the best keeper in the league and won us loads of points by keeping us in games that we improved in the 2nd half. He dropped off at the end of the season, but his head was probably turned. He didn't end up in L1 based on the last 10 games so the interest must already have been there.

The other difference was work rate, we had worse players but a good team spirit, I don't think we have that now. But results breed confidence and a couple of ground out results could turn things around.

We’ve just taken 4 points from the last two league games.

Rose is more a replacement for Taylor than McAtee.

Quoted from chaos33

We’ve just taken 4 points from the last two league games.

SACK HIM!!!

Quoted from chaos33

We’ve just taken 4 points from the last two league games.

We've just taken 5 points from the last 6 league games, just saying

Quoted from chaos33

We’ve just taken 4 points from the last two league games.

Dropped 14 points from winning positions!..

Sometimes the points don't truly relate to performance, we've played well and lost, played dull and won, but the last few games we've been pretty dire bar the odd 20 minutes in each game, and its almost like the Barrow win is actually an outlier rather indicative of our form.

Personally I think we have improved 50-60% of the positions, left back is possibly one where we need to and didn't, but midfield, up top and defence should performing better than it currently is.

They’re not running through walls for PH . Those Bradford lads were 20% sharper and more committed than most of our players last night . Either they’re bored or don’t understand the tactics

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Dropped 14 points from winning positions!..

Sometimes the points don't truly relate to performance, we've played well and lost, played dull and won, but the last few games we've been pretty dire bar the odd 20 minutes in each game, and its almost like the Barrow win is actually an outlier rather indicative of our form.

Personally I think we have improved 50-60% of the positions, left back is possibly one where we need to and didn't, but midfield, up top and defence should performing better than it currently is.

Yeah I get that mate and it’s fair enough. I was really reacting to the poster who said ‘maybe if we can grind out a couple of results in the next couple of games, then maybe things will change’. We’ve just actually done that.

Quoted from It Bites

They’re not running through walls for PH . Those Bradford lads were 20% sharper and more committed than most of our players last night . Either they’re bored or don’t understand the tactics

You’re right. There seems to be something missing, we were told how beneficial the Spain trip was for squad bonding but that seems a very long time ago. We looked more ‘together’ in the early weeks of the season than we do now.

I do think it’s a fair point that the team doesn’t seem to have shown the cohesion, spirit and never say die mentality that we’ve seen from the squad in the last two seasons. The player/supporter rapport/bond isn’t really there yet either. Goal celebrations look muted. I dunno…..I do think there is something missing/not visibly there…..

Quoted from chaos33

I do think it’s a fair point that the team doesn’t seem to have shown the cohesion, spirit and never say die mentality that we’ve seen from the squad in the last two seasons. The player/supporter rapport/bond isn’t really there yet either. Goal celebrations look muted. I dunno…..I do think there is something missing/not visibly there…..

I first noticed the goal celebration thing at the weekend. Very half hearted.

We need to give it a few more weeks before we can really decide. Some of the highest-value cards have been played and won't come up in future hands. Games like Wrexham and Notts County away are royal cards, still hands you can win but it's much harder. We haven't had enough low and middle-ranking opponents to judge our worth. We're certainly not a Queen, King or Ace ourselves though. Last year we were probably about an 8. Maybe we can be a 10 or even a Jack, who knows? A shuffle in January could nudge us up a peg.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I first noticed the goal celebration thing at the weekend. Very half hearted.

It has been apparent for weeks and I think it is another small signal that all isn't well.

Some players are just nonchalantly jogging towards the scorer when in previous seasons the whole team would pile in screaming with delight.

It is all very odd but I guess we will never know what's up.

Quoted from GrimRob

We need to give it a few more weeks before we can really decide. Some of the highest-value cards have been played and won't come up in future hands. Games like Wrexham and Notts County away are royal cards, still hands you can win but it's much harder. We haven't had enough low and middle-ranking opponents to judge our worth. We're certainly not a Queen, King or Ace ourselves though. Last year we were probably about an 8. Maybe we can be a 10 or even a Jack, who knows? A shuffle in January could nudge us up a peg.

More like a lottery than a game of cards. We don't seem to have many Aces in the pack but a lot of Twos and Threes.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It has been apparent for weeks and I think it is another small signal that all isn't well.

Some players are just nonchalantly jogging towards the scorer when in previous seasons the whole team would pile in screaming with delight.

It is all very odd but I guess we will never know what's up.

Yup. I’ve noticed it in every game and I can’t say it doesn’t make me wonder. I agree with Rob though about reviewing again after we’ve played more middling teams,  and the other contributor who said that we need to see how the return of Wilson, Maher and Amos affects things.
I’m certainly not going to advocate for changing manager.
I know it sounds a bit questionable but I’d rather be a middling L2 team taking a few years to safely establish itself and be slowly evolving towards genuine promotion chasers over 3-5 years than chasing the play offs in the conference at Borehamwood and Maidenhead.

I think it would be niaive to pretend that there aren’t  some real concerns, outlined in various threads, but Hurst is smart and he won’t accept mediocrity and underperformance or a fragile team spirit for long.
For me, alongside the points outlined above, the other worry is how we seem to concede easy goals by being exposed or overloaded down and behind both full backs. Becoming very hard to beat wouldn’t be a bad start to an improvement journey. I’m not averse to some 0-0/1-1 away draws and scrappy 1-0 home wins in the short term. Starting Saturday.