Feigning head injuries

This needs sorting out by the FA and fast. Absolutely flipping ridiculous.

The Mansfield player today being a prime example.

I think that is what you are referring to.

If you go down holding your head and physio comes on you should have to go off for ten minutes and be seen by a doctor before you return on pitch. That will stop the fake  ones.

Quoted from promotion plaice

The Mansfield player today being a prime example.

I think that is what you are referring to.

Got up to join in the play when they had the ball then went down holding his head when we won the ball back, ref fell for it like a feckin muppet

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

If you go down holding your head and physio comes on you should have to go off for ten minutes and be seen by a doctor before you return on pitch. That will stop the fake  ones.

It will also encourage potentially concussed players to carry on playing and possibly endanger themselves. Something needs to be done but not sure this is it.

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

If you go down holding your head and physio comes on you should have to go off for ten minutes and be seen by a doctor before you return on pitch. That will stop the fake  ones.

Exactly this!

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

It will also encourage potentially concussed players to carry on playing and potentially endangering themselves. Something needs to be done but not sure this is it.

I get what you’re saying but you’d imagine if you did something to get concussion the physio would come on and assess you, all the refs would need is to understand whet a basic assessment looks like, but I get it.

What makes me laugh is when they kick their legs about and bang the floor with their hands. I’ve been completely smashed in the chops on several occasions and concussed a few times whilst egg chasing and I can tell you that’s the last thing you do.

You can't punish teams for genuine head injuries because of others milking the system. I'd say all head injury stoppages will be video reviewed and subject the a potential three game bam if deemed to be playacting.

Quoted from Simon

Got up to join in the play when they had the ball then went down holding his head when we won the ball back, ref fell for it like a feckin muppet

He was a feckin muppet

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

You can't punish teams for genuine head injuries because of others milking the system. I'd say all head injury stoppages will be video reviewed and subject the a potential three game bam if deemed to be playacting.

How do you video evidence concussion? You would need an mri scanner....what looks inoccious could actually be
serious....its a difficult one as its clear already that teams/players are faking head injuries where it is advantageous to their team...the answer...
I suggest....concussion subs......you leave the field to be assessed by an independent medical assessor...minimum 10- 15 mins...in the meantime your team can put a sub on free of charge.....if the player returns to play as there is nothing wrong with them...you lose a sub..if the player stays off then so be it...sub stands.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

You can't punish teams for genuine head injuries because of others milking the system. I'd say all head injury stoppages will be video reviewed and subject the a potential three game bam if deemed to be playacting.

Then it just becomes an opinion as you can’t realistically remotely asses or understand if it’s legitimate or protocols have been applied.

These days physios are well qualified you’d just need to trust their judgement that they’d have player welfare as a priority, generally in this day and age they tend to so that.

You don't video evidence concussion but you could see if their was no contact and it was completely feigned. Concussion subs work pretty well in rugby but still very open to abuse.

I agree it's a problem. Multiple times this season seen teams break up play by someone clutching their head. But you can't do something that encourages players to pretend they don't have head injuries when they do or punish teams for suffering them. Ten minutes left in a close cup game and your star centre back gets a smack in the head - unlucky but you're now down to ten men for the rest of the match.

Something needs doing but you also need to be wary of players dangerously soldiering through. An independent doctor at every game would help but would that increase the number of instances as players target 10 minutes respite from those that are running rings around them?

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

You don't video evidence concussion but you could see if their was no contact and it was completely feigned. Concussion subs work pretty well in rugby but still very open to abuse.

I agree it's a problem. Multiple times this season seen teams break up play by someone clutching their head. But you can't do something that encourages players to pretend they don't have head injuries when they do or punish teams for suffering them. Ten minutes left in a close cup game and your star centre back gets a smack in the head - unlucky but you're now down to ten men for the rest of the match.

If they get a smack in the head to that degree you’d assume they’d go down wouldn’t you? Not sure how you couldn’t not? If you can then it’s already happening now I’d assume.

The OP was on about the pillocks that go bottom over mammary and clutch their canisters feigning injuries. Snidey male masturbators.

As was predicted, the moment this was introduced we all knew teams would utilise it to break up play etc. some teams are better at it than others.

People were complaining at the referee yesterday but to be honest, what he did is exactly what he has to do. The referees are between a rock and a hard place. He knew full well that their player was feigning a head injury but he can’t not stop the game. Imagine the first ref that does and the player turns out to have a genuine concussion etc, poor illegitimate will be hammered.

My anger was aimed directly at the player yesterday, it was blatant cheating. Simple as that.

I wonder if football could introduce it where when someone goes down with a head injury aslong as it isn't dead centre of the action or the ref can clearly see its serious, the ref can wave a physio on to check the players condition whilst the game continues. If it is genuine and quite concerning then you flag the ref down to hault the game. This alone would stop alot of them staying down and milking it. Yesterday for example, no reason why we couldn't continue the game and a physio run on to assess him (although If the rule was in place he probably would of just stood up anyway)

The thing is there’s very little a physio can do on the pitch without a CT scanner to rule out a serious head injury. All pretty pointless arrse covering.

Managers play a role here, if they don’t accept their players embarrassing themselves like a few Mansfield players did yesterday it’s less likely to happen.

Khan goes down yesterday whilst Mansfield attack he doesn’t feign a head injury to stop the game, many players in that league do.

Rugby league introduced a green card along similar lines:

"player will be shown a green card if the game is forced to be paused for them to receive treatment. If the player is shown the green card, they will have to stay off the field for two minutes."

"the change is being encouraged in an attempt to stop players from attempting to pick up a player who has stayed down while also discouraging players from feigning injury"

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/green-card-rugby-league-2023-25879386

Worth noting that head injuries carry a mandatory assessment anyway so a player will be off the pitch for a head injury regardless.

Interesting concept though. I've seen it in practice when a player was definitely stalling for time and ref has used green card, even 2 mins of being a player down makes you more vulnerable, it has limited the number of feigned injuries from what I've seen (altho no data on this as hard to ascertain what's feigned I imagine). In the game I'm thinking of it nipped it in the bud, previously a team would of potentially stalled a few times to run the clock down, it happened once he got green carded and it didn't happen for remainder of game.

Manager's won't be accepting it so much as actively encouraging it.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Manager's won't be accepting it so much as actively encouraging it.

You could see that yesterday in the 2nd half when they pretty much had a mid half team talk during a stoppage.

Quoted from MarinerWY

Rugby league introduced a green card along similar lines:

"player will be shown a green card if the game is forced to be paused for them to receive treatment. If the player is shown the green card, they will have to stay off the field for two minutes."

"the change is being encouraged in an attempt to stop players from attempting to pick up a player who has stayed down while also discouraging players from feigning injury"

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/green-card-rugby-league-2023-25879386

Worth noting that head injuries carry a mandatory assessment anyway so a player will be off the pitch for a head injury regardless.

Interesting concept though. I've seen it in practice when a player was definitely stalling for time and ref has used green card, even 2 mins of being a player down makes you more vulnerable, it has limited the number of feigned injuries from what I've seen (altho no data on this as hard to ascertain what's feigned I imagine). In the game I'm thinking of it nipped it in the bud, previously a team would of potentially stalled a few times to run the clock down, it happened once he got green carded and it didn't happen for remainder of game.

The culture in RL is completely different to football at all levels, generally players don’t go down but it has crept in at times and refs seem to sniff it out.

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

If you go down holding your head and physio comes on you should have to go off for ten minutes and be seen by a doctor before you return on pitch. That will stop the fake  ones.

The solution is being developed...

[url=https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/2021/rugby-study-identifies-new-method-to-diagnose-concussion-using-saliva-1]Concussion Saliva Test[/url]

Anyone found to be feigning a hesd injury should have their head removed. Problem solved.

If they was made to go off for 5 mins following a head injury then the play acting would stop tomorrow.

Fans are paying good money to see a game of football not some  Nancy roll around on the floor when the games going against them

You’d have thought with all the dementia stuff around ex players, that football would be taking this a whole lot more seriously. The RL protocol seems about right as does continuing to play and let the player get treated. That in itself would stop loads of play acting.

If a player goes down with a head injury then in the majority of cases they will be able to walk off the pitch to the nearest point. Receive treatment there and don't let them back on for a full 5 minutes with no sub. So their team plays with 10 men for a least 5 mins.

It would address the feigning injuries problem whilst a genuine case can be stretchered off and subbed.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

You can't punish teams for genuine head injuries because of others milking the system. I'd say all head injury stoppages will be video reviewed and subject the a potential three game bam if deemed to be playacting.

Why would it punish a team with a genuine head injury? Concussion substitutes are already a thing in the international laws of the game aren't they? If a player suffers a head injury and he is displaying symptoms of concussion then both teams get an additional substitute. So there's no risk of pressure on a player with a head injury to play on because his team has used all 5 substitutes. That's pretty fair. You don't get an extra sub if a player has a broken leg do you? It's up to the EFL to implement that law.

The real solution is simple. For a head injury you can bring on a temporary concussion substitute for X minutes (maybe 5). In that time the injured player sees an independent doctor. If he's passed fit he comes back on and the temporary sub departs. If he isn't passed fit (i.e. the doctor diagnoses concussion) the substitute becomes permanent. To stop abuse of the system the injured player has to go through a phased return to training and matches regardless of whether another doctor subsequently disputes the concussion diagnosis. And maybe the temporary sub should be unable to take throw-ins, set pieces and penalties until the change becomes permanent to avoid tactical "special teams" temporary subs.

Quoted from DB

If a player goes down with a head injury then in the majority of cases they will be able to walk off the pitch to the nearest point. Receive treatment there and don't let them back on for a full 5 minutes with no sub. So their team plays with 10 men for a least 5 mins.

It would address the feigning injuries problem whilst a genuine case can be stretchered off and subbed.

Or get them to go off at the nearest point, walk round to the dug out where an independent HCP makes a short assessment before they go back on. If a 3rd party says yes or know to whether they continue it may stop clubs making unsafe decisions re player welfare.

Then again referees clearly have trouble identifying the nearest point in the current rules so it wouldn’t get if the ground.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

You can't punish teams for genuine head injuries because of others milking the system. I'd say all head injury stoppages will be video reviewed and subject the a potential three game bam if deemed to be playacting.

That's just over complicating things. Why not have a similar situation like the have in RU as regards a ' blood substitute'? Allow a temporary substitute while the injured player is assessed by a doctor off the pitch for a maximum of 10 mins. If the player is deemed fit to return to the field of play then fine, if not then the 'blood substitute' remains on the pitch and is classed as a full substitution.

Quoted from rancido

That's just over complicating things. Why not have a similar situation like the have in RU as regards a ' blood substitute'? Allow a temporary substitute while the injured player is assessed by a doctor off the pitch for a maximum of 10 mins. If the player is deemed fit to return to the field of play then fine, if not then the 'blood substitute' remains on the pitch and is classed as a full substitution.

A temporary Substitution would take longer than someone play acting .
By the time he’s got changed , given his name to the 4th official etc it would take 5 minutes

I was very worried for the Mansfield player who got hurt on the halfway line in front of the Findus today. He was kicking his legs up in the air and doing a dead fly looked like a clear case of brain damage to me…… Although he did seem to recover, within 15 seconds of standing up

Quoted from grimps

If they was made to go off for 5 mins following a head injury then the play acting would stop tomorrow.

Fans are paying good money to see a game of football not some  Nancy roll around on the floor when the games going against them

If that rule came to force Naymar would only be on the pitch for about 5 minutes every game. .

Quoted from HertsGTFC

What makes me laugh is when they kick their legs about and bang the floor with their hands. I’ve been completely smashed in the chops on several occasions and concussed a few times whilst egg chasing and I can tell you that’s the last thing you do.

When they roll around like idiots it reminds of Michael Owen when was injured playing for england

https://youtu.be/NyI_gXOE2bw

This what you do when it really hurts. No theatrics, you just want treatment

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Why would it punish a team with a genuine head injury? Concussion substitutes are already a thing in the international laws of the game aren't they? If a player suffers a head injury and he is displaying symptoms of concussion then both teams get an additional substitute. So there's no risk of pressure on a player with a head injury to play on because his team has used all 5 substitutes. That's pretty fair. You don't get an extra sub if a player has a broken leg do you? It's up to the EFL to implement that law.

The real solution is simple. For a head injury you can bring on a temporary concussion substitute for X minutes (maybe 5). In that time the injured player sees an independent doctor. If he's passed fit he comes back on and the temporary sub departs. If he isn't passed fit (i.e. the doctor diagnoses concussion) the substitute becomes permanent. To stop abuse of the system the injured player has to go through a phased return to training and matches regardless of whether another doctor subsequently disputes the concussion diagnosis. And maybe the temporary sub should be unable to take throw-ins, set pieces and penalties until the change becomes permanent to avoid tactical "special teams" temporary subs.

The post I was replying to made no mention of concussion subs. It would help reduce the delays but it won't stop play being stopped and broken up. Fresh pegs for 5 minutes hardly seems a massive disincentive to stop pretending to have a head injury. The problem in Rugby wasn't players pretending to be hurt to stop play but playing on despite genuine injuries.

Quoted from grimps

A temporary Substitution would take longer than someone play acting .
By the time he’s got changed , given his name to the 4th official etc it would take 5 minutes

A head injury should be an immediate assessment by a doctor off field. Whatever time it takes should be automatically added to the 90 minutes game time. What would be your solution to this increasing problem. Surely the players welfare should be foremost, especially head injuries and the increasing link with those and dementia.

Quoted from rancido

A head injury should be an immediate assessment by a doctor off field. Whatever time it takes should be automatically added to the 90 minutes game time. What would be your solution to this increasing problem. Surely the players welfare should be foremost, especially head injuries and the increasing link with those and dementia.

Nobody’s asking the player with the head injury ( or faking injury ) to stay on the pitch .
They should be taken off as you say and assessed but the game should go on .
The manger had plenty of subs to use if he can’t be bothered to wait

Quoted from grimps

Nobody’s asking the player with the head injury ( or faking injury ) to stay on the pitch .
They should be taken off as you say and assessed but the game should go on .
The manger had plenty of subs to use if he can’t be bothered to wait

But surely that disadvantages the team if player is compulsory taken off for an assessment? A temporary substitute satisfies that and if the injured player is deemed fit to carry on then he can return. There has to be some safeguard to stop sham injuries but help recognise the genuine ones.
If the FA want to prevent sham injuries then all they have to do is take a player off for 5 mins for proper recovery if a physio is needed on the pitch.

What was wrong with the old rule? Surely it was far better when a head injury was treated as per all other injuries. Just admit defeat and switch it back. If it's deemed bad enough one of the teams will kick the ball out. People weren't dying of head injuries a few seasons ago.

Quoted from rancido

But surely that disadvantages the team if player is compulsory taken off for an assessment? A temporary substitute satisfies that and if the injured player is deemed fit to carry on then he can return. There has to be some safeguard to stop sham injuries but help recognise the genuine ones.
If the FA want to prevent sham injuries then all they have to do is take a player off for 5 mins for proper recovery if a physio is needed on the pitch.

Players have been getting injured for as long as the game has been played.
Substitutes were introduced in case of injures , you can’t have a temporary sub while you make your mind up if the player is injured enough to substitute.
The player is either injured or he isn’t , players have always been asked to leave the pitch to have their treatment not to stop the game

Quoted from grimps

Players have been getting injured for as long as the game has been played.
Substitutes were introduced in case of injures , you can’t have a temporary sub while you make your mind up if the player is injured enough to substitute.
The player is either injured or he isn’t , players have always been asked to leave the pitch to have their treatment not to stop the game

I agree but the FA have made a distinction with head injuries and refs have to stop play. The whole situation about injuries need looking into to stop the gamesmanship.

Temporary subs waste a lot more time.
I'd like to see the 4th. official stop the clock like they do in rugby. It starts again when play restarts. The final whistle goes when the ball goes out of play so a team loosing can keep the ball as long as they like, when the winning side get it just put it in the stand. It takes the disision away from the ref and players know that going down injured doesn't waste any time.

Quoted from Son of Cod

What was wrong with the old rule? Surely it was far better when a head injury was treated as per all other injuries. Just admit defeat and switch it back. If it's deemed bad enough one of the teams will kick the ball out. People weren't dying of head injuries a few seasons ago.

Players have been dying from head injuries sustained in football for years. Former footballers are approximately 3.5 times more likely to have dementia than the general male population. Avoiding head injuries and managed returns to training and matches after suffering a head injury are part of the solution.

But goalkeepers feigning cramp is perfectly acceptable

Quoted from nomorefourfiveone

But goalkeepers feigning cramp is perfectly acceptable

Like any injury, you will never know if it's genuine or not. The difference with Crocombe, if that is who you are referring to, is that no other keepers have twigged on to it before.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Players have been dying from head injuries sustained in football for years. Former footballers are approximately 3.5 times more likely to have dementia than the general male population. Avoiding head injuries and managed returns to training and matches after suffering a head injury are part of the solution.

Yeah so there shouldn’t be any problems with then leaving the pitch and getting the best medical attention then should there ?

Any player that has a head injury or suspected head injury should  leave the pitch and get checked out .
Like I said the number of stoppages with play acting would drastically reduce and the players welfare is being taken care of

I remember Pat Partridge the referee going down after the ball landed on him during a game in the 70's. Still can hear that cheer from the Pontoon!

I don't think there's a simple solution to this unfortunately. You need to assume each head injury is serious, even if you're 90% sure it's play-acting. And you can't punish the team if one of their players is genuinely injured by forcing them to play either with 10 players, or a sub who will likely be thrown in cold.

The lad who got hurt in the first minute... as someone else has already said, rolling around, bashing the turf with your fist, etc, is usually a sign they're okay. The ones that go down and don't move are usually the serious injuries.

The lad who got hurt, but didn't go down because Mansfield were on the attack... the ref could have stopped the game then. Even though he hadn't gone down, he clearly had a head injury. Obviously, once Crocombe had parried the shot and we then took possession, the player went down.

It's frustrating because that second one was cynical, and then you had our fans shouting that one of our players should go down holding his head when Mansfield were on the attack. You're relying on players being professional about this.

I think the only way you deal with this is education and trust. All players need to learn about and understand the seriousness of head injuries, and not to insult those that have been injured in this way by play-acting. They are professional footballers, so they should be professional.

Time wasting is one thing. Pretending they have serious head injuries simply to stop the game to their team's advantage is more cynical in my view.

A bit of retrospective punishment would be good, too, but it's hard to prove that someone was play-acting as head injuries aren't always visible.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Players have been dying from head injuries sustained in football for years. Former footballers are approximately 3.5 times more likely to have dementia than the general male population. Avoiding head injuries and managed returns to training and matches after suffering a head injury are part of the solution.

What you're talking about is a different conversation though, you're talking about the long term effects of heading the ball and going up for headers across entire careers. Stopping the match when a player has gone down with a head injury isn't going to stop dementia in footballers. Players dying from single head impacts are incredibly rare in football, in the extreme circumstances when someone's life is in danger from such an impact the match will be stopped anyway as it's almost always immediately obvious.

Quoted from RichMariner

I don't think there's a simple solution to this unfortunately. You need to assume each head injury is serious, even if you're 90% sure it's play-acting. And you can't punish the team if one of their players is genuinely injured by forcing them to play either with 10 players, or a sub who will likely be thrown in cold.

The lad who got hurt in the first minute... as someone else has already said, rolling around, bashing the turf with your fist, etc, is usually a sign they're okay. The ones that go down and don't move are usually the serious injuries.

The lad who got hurt, but didn't go down because Mansfield were on the attack... the ref could have stopped the game then. Even though he hadn't gone down, he clearly had a head injury. Obviously, once Crocombe had parried the shot and we then took possession, the player went down.

It's frustrating because that second one was cynical, and then you had our fans shouting that one of our players should go down holding his head when Mansfield were on the attack. You're relying on players being professional about this.

I think the only way you deal with this is education and trust. All players need to learn about and understand the seriousness of head injuries, and not to insult those that have been injured in this way by play-acting. They are professional footballers, so they should be professional.

Time wasting is one thing. Pretending they have serious head injuries simply to stop the game to their team's advantage is more cynical in my view.

A bit of retrospective punishment would be good, too, but it's hard to prove that someone was play-acting as head injuries aren't always visible.

I'm sorry but education and trust doesn't solve this problem. Managers and coaches will exploit this and it will only take extreme and decisive moves by the FA to eradicate this .

The whole thing is ridiculous. You can break both legs and both arms in a tackle and the ref potentially waves play on but somebody gives you a tap on the head and play stops.

As per usual it is the law of unintended consequences and the lawmakers never think things through.

The minute players see an opportunity to bend the rules they will take it, and an appropriate antidote to that should have been brought in with the new law.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

The whole thing is ridiculous. You can break both legs and both arms in a tackle and the ref potentially waves play on but somebody gives you a tap on the head and play stops.

As per usual it is the law of unintended consequences and the lawmakers never think things through.

The minute players see an opportunity to bend the rules they will take it, and an appropriate antidote to that should have been brought in with the new law.

This