JS on Sports Talk

A longish and interesting chat with Matt Dean that covers many of the issues we have been discussing on here. Well worth a listen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0b58m00

Quoted from ginnywings

A longish and interesting chat with Matt Dean that covers many of the issues we have been discussing on here. Well worth a listen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0b58m00

Thanks for posting that. It was a very good enlightening listen.

4 locations in the town for a new training ground and Barretts is not the favorite, so I wonder where the other 3 are? Also, he emphasised that we not moving to a new stadium and staying at BP for the foreseeable future. He hoped for 2 signings in January and funds are there for Hursty, but the decision is up to Hurst.

Listening to it makes you realise we are in safe hands.

Quoted from DB

4 locations in the town for a new training ground and Barretts is not the favorite

Think he said only not the favourite because he didn’t have an informed view on the situation, so might end up being the most viable in the end.

Would imagine Barrats being so close to the College is a major plus. Anyways, exciting times ahead.

Quoted from DB

Thanks for posting that. It was a very good enlightening listen.

4 locations in the town for a new training ground and Barretts is not the favorite, so I wonder where the other 3 are? Also, he emphasised that we not moving to a new stadium and staying at BP for the foreseeable future. He hoped for 2 signings in January and funds are there for Hursty, but the decision is up to Hurst.

I wonder if the previous regimes desired location for a stadium, Peaks Parkway, is one of them.

I don’t think we’ll see significant new investment until Fenty is paid off.

Love the Northcoders idea, proper community stuff that 👍

Echo DB’s comments - thanks for posting, I’d have missed this if you hadn’t.

The more I hear from JS the more I like what he stands for. Love the emphasis on it being a long-term project and sustainable in preparation for the next set of custodians, whilst still recognising the need to strengthen the playing squad. Great philosophy and so many reasons to be optimistic.

There were some contractors on Clee Fields taking core samples of the ground last Tuesday.  Got talking to them and they told me that there are plans to extend the all weather courts, along with a building being built next to the sports hall. They told me it was to do with sports England. Could Town be involved with this?  It ticks all the boxes for a training ground in the town

Quoted from mimma

There were some contractors on Clee Fields taking core samples of the ground last Tuesday.  Got talking to them and they told me that there are plans to extend the all weather courts, along with a building being built next to the sports hall. They told me it was to do with sports England. Could Town be involved with this?  It ticks all the boxes for a training ground in the town

Fits with a community ethos and might be shared with Cleethorpes Town too. Anyone know what's going on with the fields on Taylors Avenue too?

Interesting interview and it’s great to see some real initiatives at the heart of things.

I can’t help but think Jason is whistling in the wind a bit about wealth distribution in football. It mirrors what’s gone on in the wider world in the past 30-40 years. Wealth is concentrated in fewer hands and income differences between top and bottom have got wider. Those st the top don’t seem ready to volunteer change.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Interesting interview and it’s great to see some real initiatives at the heart of things.

I can’t help but think Jason is whistling in the wind a bit about wealth distribution in football. It mirrors what’s gone on in the wider world in the past 30-40 years. Wealth is concentrated in fewer hands and income differences between top and bottom have got wider. Those st the top don’t seem ready to volunteer change.

That is a very concise and accurate summary of the world we live in, star man.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Interesting interview and it’s great to see some real initiatives at the heart of things.

I can’t help but think Jason is whistling in the wind a bit about wealth distribution in football. It mirrors what’s gone on in the wider world in the past 30-40 years. Wealth is concentrated in fewer hands and income differences between top and bottom have got wider. Those st the top don’t seem ready to volunteer change.

Agree with your observations on how wealth is distributed in the world - but surely that’s all the more reason to try to initiate change.

Quoted from SouthLakesMariner

Agree with your observations on how wealth is distributed in the world - but surely that’s all the more reason to try to initiate change.

I agree it’s worth the attempt. Not disputing that at all. Just that football’s issue is a symptom of a wider issue.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I agree it’s worth the attempt. Not disputing that at all. Just that football’s issue is a symptom of a wider issue.

West Ham arranged a private jet to get Antonio back from international duty 1 day ahead of schedule this week.....nice example of where money in the game is.
Quite amusing they lost and didn't score 🤣

Football will never be a level playing field, obviously, so whistling in the wind is an apt description.

Imagine if it WAS a level playing field for a minute.  That would make it worse for GTFC.

If all clubs in the NL were paying the same the larger metropolitan areas would attract more players and well established clubs like ours in more outlying areas would have less to choose from as there is less incentive for players to move.

I imagine players would not move about as much in search of better money so areas of larger populations of players would surely have an advantage.

In any event it will never happen so I hope the owners dont spend too much energy chasing an unrealistic goal and appreciate their job is to attract and utilise suitable investment into the club to allow us to compete.  I think he has said more than once there are offers of investment and help yet to be taken up.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Football will never be a level playing field, obviously, so whistling in the wind is an apt description.

Imagine if it WAS a level playing field for a minute.  That would make it worse for GTFC.

If all clubs in the NL were paying the same the larger metropolitan areas would attract more players and well established clubs like ours in more outlying areas would have less to choose from as there is less incentive for players to move.

I imagine players would not move about as much in search of better money so areas of larger populations of players would surely have an advantage.

In any event it will never happen so I hope the owners dont spend too much energy chasing an unrealistic goal and appreciate their job is to attract and utilise suitable investment into the club to allow us to compete.  I think he has said more than once there are offers of investment and help yet to be taken up.

Exactly this. Very interesting that Mike Parker is in communication with Jason and Andrew.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Football will never be a level playing field, obviously, so whistling in the wind is an apt description.

Imagine if it WAS a level playing field for a minute.  That would make it worse for GTFC.

If all clubs in the NL were paying the same the larger metropolitan areas would attract more players and well established clubs like ours in more outlying areas would have less to choose from as there is less incentive for players to move.

I imagine players would not move about as much in search of better money so areas of larger populations of players would surely have an advantage.

In any event it will never happen so I hope the owners dont spend too much energy chasing an unrealistic goal and appreciate their job is to attract and utilise suitable investment into the club to allow us to compete.  I think he has said more than once there are offers of investment and help yet to be taken up.

Actually the days of the maximum wage* coincided with our best years as a club. * not the same thing, I know, as a wage cap, but a wage budget cap will tend to limit the higher salaries.

No one is proposing a complete levelling. The Fair Game organisation is proposing better governance of football as a whole and of the finances of clubs within the professional/semi-professional game. I’m suggesting a narrowing of the wealth differentials. In football and in wider society. Ultimately unrestricted wealth gaps are bad for capitalism and democracy.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Actually the days of the maximum wage* coincided with our best years as a club. * not the same thing, I know, as a wage cap, but a wage budget cap will tend to limit the higher salaries.

No one is proposing a complete levelling. The Fair Game organisation is proposing better governance of football as a whole and of the finances of clubs within the professional/semi-professional game. I’m suggesting a narrowing of the wealth differentials. In football and in wider society. Ultimately unrestricted wealth gaps are bad for capitalism and democracy.

Fair enough, but like you say it is whistling in the wind. You will never get agreement from clubs who naturally want to preserve their advantages, which should include us in non-league.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Fair enough, but like you say it is whistling in the wind. You will never get agreement from clubs who naturally want to preserve their advantages, which should include us in non-league.

This whole idea of " a fairer football structure or indeed a fairer social structure " is a pipe dream because it is dependent on human nature. There will always be those who want more , financially ,out of the world and are not bothered how the achieve it. This could be running a football club, a business empire or just an ambitious person on the shop floor willing to do more overtime or go that extra mile to benefit themselves.There are those that are ruthless in how they achieve their ends regardless of how it affects anybody else. You only have to look at the proposed takeover of LV to see how this is manifesting itself in the business world. The football world is no different with some owners wanting to buy success at any price. This latest tv deal with The Premiersh*t from an American tv network will bring more unsavoury wealthy characters out of the woodwork with ambitions to own football clubs purely to feed their egos with no thought for the supporters. It's a wonderful thing to have altruistic socialist ideals but sadly the reality of human nature confines it to the Utopias portrayed in political books.

Nothing but respect for Jason and Andrew but it’s going to take more than a pressure group made up of lower league clubs to alter the greed at the top of the pyramid.

He might be whistling in the wind but I'm proud to say that my football club is being looked after by people with the right principles.

Those will count for something in the long run.

Hopefully his positive attitude and willingness to raise the skills and aspirations of the town inspire others to think like that, and do more for each other. The whole 'greater together' mantra in full swing.

One of two people pushing for change is one thing. But if he can get an entire fanbase and an entire town united and pushing for positive change then it's more likely to happen.

Who knows where this Fair Game initiative will go, too? Galvanise clubs and get them organised to turn up the pressure...

If you don't ask, you don't get.

Quoted from RichMariner

He might be whistling in the wind but I'm proud to say that my football club is being looked after by people with the right principles.

Those will count for something in the long run.

Hopefully his positive attitude and willingness to raise the skills and aspirations of the town inspire others to think like that, and do more for each other. The whole 'greater together' mantra in full swing.

One of two people pushing for change is one thing. But if he can get an entire fanbase and an entire town united and pushing for positive change then it's more likely to happen.

Who knows where this Fair Game initiative will go, too? Galvanise clubs and get them organised to turn up the pressure...

If you don't ask, you don't get.

It is certainly an interesting discussion point.

I have read the aims and aspirations of the Fair Game initiative which is online.

It bemoans the loss of Bury and Macclesfield and laments the fact that the great Bolton dropped into the basement division. There is an awful lot of talk about fairness, and responsibility and community which is fair enough, but how on earth can you stop some clubs from being run badly? Bury overspent and went out of business. Macclesfield did well to get into the league at all, and Bolton may or may not have been badly run, but suffered the fate of having a pyramid system which in theory means no club is immune from relegations  - even those with past glories which are just a distant dream. It is not nice for the fans but it is good when a giant of the game comes unstuck and gets a reality check.

Those clubs that are well run and well-financed will tend to do well; those that are badly run and overspend will suffer the consequences.

GTFC have been shockingly badly run under the former regime, but not particularly on the financial side so what would Fair Game be able to do about that?

Every club is unique. Each club will have its good and bad points, and at any given time be doing well, or not so well, or having a stinker. Isn't that part of the joy?

Some fans do suffer terribly, which must be very upsetting. If Town went bust I would be mortified, but I would be determined to help in any way I could to get us back.

I just think the whole idea of a fairer game is too abstract to be meaningful. I would rather try hard to do a Brentford than try to impose some top-down level playing field which in any even would soon be circumvented by ambitious clubs.

There is no mention anywhere of a top-down level playing field Lew. They’re talking about better governance, which is a different thing.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

There is no mention anywhere of a top-down level playing field Lew. They’re talking about better governance, which is a different thing.

They do talk a lot about better governance that is true, but their manifesto talks about salary caps across "all divisions" which is surely an attempt to level up the playing field.

Their intentions are no doubt good, but I don't think it would ever work in practice.

We will just have to see as the years roll by.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

There is no mention anywhere of a top-down level playing field Lew. They’re talking about better governance, which is a different thing.

This is why I'm interested to hear how he thinks it should be structured. A flat cap will only increase transfer fees as clubs like ourselves with bigger attendances have surplus cash to spend so, in my opinion, it should be an enforced percentage of income with loopholes like having a hotel you own 100 miles away buying the stadium naming rights closed off.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

This is why I'm interested to hear how he thinks it should be structured. A flat cap will only increase transfer fees as clubs like ourselves with bigger attendances have surplus cash to spend so, in my opinion, it should be an enforced percentage of income with loopholes like having a hotel you own 100 miles away buying the stadium naming rights closed off.

I don’t think Holloway spent that much on transfers.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

This is why I'm interested to hear how he thinks it should be structured. A flat cap will only increase transfer fees as clubs like ourselves with bigger attendances have surplus cash to spend so, in my opinion, it should be an enforced percentage of income with loopholes like having a hotel you own 100 miles away buying the stadium naming rights closed off.

They haven’t mentioned a flat cap either. So I don’t know where you’ve got that one from.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

They haven’t mentioned a flat cap either. So I don’t know where you’ve got that one from.

Stockwood hasn't but I believe the salary cap due to come in next season is a flat £900k. I don't think that is the way forward but I do think regulations are required.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Stockwood hasn't but I believe the salary cap due to come in next season is a flat £900k. I don't think that is the way forward but I do think regulations are required.

Yeah, but that's the whole point. People are inferring that Stockwood/Fair Game have suggested it. It's just balderdash conjured up out of thin air.

I agree with you on a flat cap. Unless it applies to every league right up to the top. Which it isn't. It's no good having equality only for the poor!

A salary cap is a race to the bottom.

We can't come up to your level, so you must drop to ours. All feels very..... non league.

League clubs gave it short shrift and soon rejected the idea.

Salty caps don’t work and still don’t really deal with the issue of clubs that I guess you could argue are economically alright but are still run appallingly…exhibit A being GTFC for the last 17 years.

I’m all for regulation and tighter control, perhaps even some stricter guidelines for clubs to adhere to but I’m not sure salary cap does that. All I can see is clubs find ways to exploit it, loop holes and the like.

Quoted from aldi_01

Salty caps don’t work and still don’t really deal with the issue of clubs that I guess you could argue are economically alright but are still run appallingly…exhibit A being GTFC for the last 17 years.

I’m all for regulation and tighter control, perhaps even some stricter guidelines for clubs to adhere to but I’m not sure salary cap does that. All I can see is clubs find ways to exploit it, loop holes and the like.

Remember a former Villa centre forward from the 1950’s being interviewed by Brian Moore and he was talking about the period when the maximum wage was still in place. He explained to get round this if they drew he would play the Chairman in a game of snooker, win and get £5 from a side bet, win the game and they would play 2 frames and he would get £10 off the Chairman. Lose and it was straight home so as you say always a way of getting around it.

Quoted from aldi_01

Salty caps don’t work and still don’t really deal with the issue of clubs that I guess you could argue are economically alright but are still run appallingly…exhibit A being GTFC for the last 17 years.

I’m all for regulation and tighter control, perhaps even some stricter guidelines for clubs to adhere to but I’m not sure salary cap does that. All I can see is clubs find ways to exploit it, loop holes and the like.

Loopholes will always be the downfall of attempts at salary caps. Flat caps (not the hats) where everyone in a given league is subject to a maximum spend on player wages are probably the most straightforward to implement, but are fundamentally flawed and inversely unfair. The recently proposed (and subsequently dropped) EFL cap would have forced the likes of Sunderland to conform to the same level of expenditure as Accrington, on 8x higher gates, which is ludicrous.

In theory, I’d like to see something that prevents clubs spending beyond their natural means. Partly to save clubs from themselves (or at least their owners), and partly so that clubs with little to no fan base and / or league history can’t ease their way through the divisions at the expense of historic clubs with a significant interest from their respective communities.

It galls me that the likes of Fleetwood, Forest Green and Salford (not forgetting Crawley) are where they are in the footballing pyramid. They might have done it based on footballing merit, but it’s merit that was bought with money not generated by the clubs themselves, and you’re not telling me they bring as much to the football league as the likes of Town, Wrexham, Notts County, Stockport et al would have.

The problem is, how do you define a club’s natural means? Gate receipts, obviously, - advertising, TV money, merchandise sales etc. Not only is ‘advertising’ revenue very difficult to police, you then have unique cases like Wrexham who have a dedicated TV deal worth millions, plus knock on effects like a shirt deal with TikTok and a high profile in globally popular video games like FIFA on the back of it. I’d argue that they absolutely should be allowed to spend that money as it’s self-generating and sustainable at least in the medium term, but trying to define the boundaries is going to be very difficult to do and even more difficult to police.

There’s merit in the basic idea of salary caps, but for the reasons above I doubt we’ll ever see one fairly and effectively introduced in English football. It will be interesting to see what happens in the National League next season. Hopefully we won’t be in it.

The whole idea of restricting spending to certain types of income (e.g. attendances) seems completely anti competitive and would only suit the current big boys. May as well just sort the league out by home attendance average.

I am certain if we were still in the Championship (lol!) and this was being discussed most would not agree with it.

Quoted from Poojah

Loopholes will always be the downfall of attempts at salary caps. Flat caps (not the hats) where everyone in a given league is subject to a maximum spend on player wages are probably the most straightforward to implement, but are fundamentally flawed and inversely unfair. The recently proposed (and subsequently dropped) EFL cap would have forced the likes of Sunderland to conform to the same level of expenditure as Accrington, on 8x higher gates, which is ludicrous.

In theory, I’d like to see something that prevents clubs spending beyond their natural means. Partly to save clubs from themselves (or at least their owners), and partly so that clubs with little to no fan base and / or league history can’t ease their way through the divisions at the expense of historic clubs with a significant interest from their respective communities.

It galls me that the likes of Fleetwood, Forest Green and Salford (not forgetting Crawley) are where they are in the footballing pyramid. They might have done it based on footballing merit, but it’s merit that was bought with money not generated by the clubs themselves, and you’re not telling me they bring as much to the football league as the likes of Town, Wrexham, Notts County, Stockport et al would have.

The problem is, how do you define a club’s natural means? Gate receipts, obviously, - advertising, TV money, merchandise sales etc. Not only is ‘advertising’ revenue very difficult to police, you then have unique cases like Wrexham who have a dedicated TV deal worth millions, plus knock on effects like a shirt deal with TikTok and a high profile in globally popular video games like FIFA on the back of it. I’d argue that they absolutely should be allowed to spend that money as it’s self-generating and sustainable at least in the medium term, but trying to define the boundaries is going to be very difficult to do and even more difficult to police.

There’s merit in the basic idea of salary caps, but for the reasons above I doubt we’ll ever see one fairly and effectively introduced in English football. It will be interesting to see what happens in the National League next season. Hopefully we won’t be in it.

The answer is you cannot define a clubs natural means and neither can you stop small clubs aspirations to get into the Football league.

We must compete in a very competitive world. I don't understand why such a successful businessman as JS would think it is remotely possible to stop the Wrexhams and other clubs looking for success.

JS thinks that success can be achieved in a number of different ways and I am sure we all agree with that, but you cannot stop other clubs trying different things including throwing money at it. If they go too far and get into difficulties then they will have to pay the price.