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England v Scotland....Match Thread

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promotion plaice
June 18, 2021, 6:13pm

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"You can't park here, Sir! Disgruntled Alex Ferguson is TURNED AWAY from Wembley's VIP car park as the greatest ever Scottish football manager arrives for his nation's clash with England at Euro 2020."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sp.....way-VIP-parking.html


I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one.
Brian Clough.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 18, 2021, 6:48pm
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England team is as per leak this morning.

Shaw and James in for Walker and Trippier.

No other changes.
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promotion plaice
June 18, 2021, 7:45pm

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Boring stat, Billy Gilmour gets to start tonight for Scotland.

He made his full Chelsea debut on 25 September 2019, playing the full 90 minutes in a 7–1 EFL Cup win against Grimsby Town.


I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one.
Brian Clough.
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bawarmy
June 18, 2021, 8:01pm
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Quoted from promotion plaice

Boring stat, Billy Gilmour gets to start tonight for Scotland.

He made his full Chelsea debut on 25 September 2019, playing the full 90 minutes in a 7–1 EFL Cup win against Grimsby Town.


It says he’s 4 foot 11 on Wikipedia
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bawarmy
June 18, 2021, 8:11pm
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Scotland have only ever won two games at the Euro finals before. Both on 18th June. Gulp!
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Northbank Mariner
June 18, 2021, 8:49pm
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Far from impressed, sorry but I really don't think Southgate is the manger to take this England squad forward.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 18, 2021, 8:49pm
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I watched the full Euro 96 match between these two teams a few months ago.

England couldn’t get the ball off John Collins and Gary McAllister in the first half. Venables brought Redknapp on at half time and it changed the game.

Phillips and Rice aren’t protecting the back four and they’re certainly not being progressive on the ball so you might as well pull Mount back deeper and bring on Grealish, Sancho or Rashford.

I can see why Southgate didn’t drop Phillips but it needs a tweak as it’s not working.
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LH
June 18, 2021, 8:49pm

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Pretty poor. Take a chance on something else Gareth before we all die of frustration.
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TAGG
June 18, 2021, 8:50pm

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Fuckin bore off


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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Northbank Mariner
June 18, 2021, 8:52pm
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner
Far from impressed, sorry but I really don't think Southgate is the manger to take this England squad forward.


So, whoever red crossed me, tell me why you disagree because I'm seeing a talented squad playing like shite.  
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Mayaman
June 18, 2021, 8:53pm
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Can't believe I woke up at 2 am for this.  Sterling is not in it and Foden's first touch is poor.  Need Grealish on to force something.
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promotion plaice
June 18, 2021, 8:56pm

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We have a stronger bench, we only need a draw, Scotland will be playing out of their skins against us, keep the faith.


I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one.
Brian Clough.
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Manchester Mariner
June 18, 2021, 8:57pm

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England might end up winning this game but I doubt 'it's coming home.'


"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
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Madeleymariner
June 18, 2021, 8:58pm

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Utter drivel no entertainment negative anti football
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promotion plaice
June 18, 2021, 9:09pm

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What's the panic, a draw will do us.

This game will be long forgotten if we win the whole thing.


I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one.
Brian Clough.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 18, 2021, 9:13pm
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In Southgate’s defence, these can’t be his instructions.

If you watch the movement of the front 6, there is nothing. They are completely static.

The players need to figure this out themselves. It’s possession-by-numbers at the moment.
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HertsGTFC
June 18, 2021, 9:15pm

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England looking a bit clueless to be honest.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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Davec
June 18, 2021, 9:16pm
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This is absolutely dreadful
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TAGG
June 18, 2021, 9:16pm

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Fuch off Southgate


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 18, 2021, 9:19pm
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Quoted from TAGG
Fuch off Southgate


I don’t think it’s his fault.

He can’t jump on Kane’s back and start whipping him to actually move.

There are no options for anyone on the ball because we are showing no energy whatsoever.
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promotion plaice
June 18, 2021, 9:20pm

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Foden off Grealish on.


I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one.
Brian Clough.
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TAGG
June 18, 2021, 9:21pm

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intercourse off again Southgate


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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promotion plaice
June 18, 2021, 9:33pm

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Looks like we are happy with a draw, we look like we don't want to win the group and have a harder route to the final.

Southgate is no mug  



I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one.
Brian Clough.
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HertsGTFC
June 18, 2021, 9:37pm

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Sam Matterface is doing my head in as much as England’s performance.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 18, 2021, 9:38pm
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At least we don’t have to worry about resting players. They’ve had their rest tonight.

I think we’ve found out English players have no energy in 14 degrees rain! Another form of weather our players don’t like.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 18, 2021, 9:39pm
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Quoted from HertsGTFC
Sam Matterface is doing my head in as much as England’s performance.


They should have just let Dixon and McCoist do it on their own. Motherwell rules.
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TAGG
June 18, 2021, 9:39pm

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Southgate has some of the best young talent in the footballing world and can't get em to beat a bunch off mugs.
Hes flipping excrement.
It's an embarrassment


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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LH
June 18, 2021, 9:45pm

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Quoted from TAGG
Southgate has some of the best young talent in the footballing world and can't get em to beat a bunch off mugs.
Hes flipping excrement.
It's an embarrassment


If you don’t like watching players a level or two below the level your team is at playing in an organised set up to frustrate then I’d highly recommend giving at least the next season at BP a pass.
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DB
June 18, 2021, 9:46pm
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Quoted from HertsGTFC
Sam Matterface is doing my head in as much as England’s performance.


Totally agree, he's got more hype than a hypermarket.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Mayaman
June 18, 2021, 9:49pm
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We are playing not to lose rather than to win.
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promotion plaice
June 18, 2021, 9:49pm

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England 0-0 Scotland

Job done  

It might not have been pretty but it's a results business  

Can't see us not qualifying now


I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one.
Brian Clough.
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HertsGTFC
June 18, 2021, 9:51pm

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I’ve been a big supporter of England and Southgate but that was poor to be honest 1 to 11 we are twice as good as them and should have created much more.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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DB
June 18, 2021, 9:53pm
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Well, if's that elite football then it's a load of rubbish. I can imagine if Town played like that then we'd be after somebody's head.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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bawarmy
June 18, 2021, 9:55pm
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Quoted from DB
Well, if's that elite football then it's a load of rubbish. I can imagine if Town played like that then we'd be after somebody's head.


I have a vision of you never watching any other game apart from a grimsby game and that was your first other game. England have always let us down .
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grimsby pete
June 18, 2021, 9:57pm

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Very disappointing from us Scotland deserve their point.

If I had to pick a man of the match it would have to be a Scot because no one in the England side had a.good game.


                             Over 34 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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TownSNAFU5
June 18, 2021, 10:00pm
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Someone said above Scotland have only ever won 2 Euro games - both on the 18 June.  

They also lost in the World Cup on the 18 June.  To Brazil 4-1 in 1982.  I watched that as the last night I was single.  (Never get married during a World Cup).  You conflict with football matches for ever.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
June 18, 2021, 10:00pm
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Quoted from promotion plaice

England 0-0 Scotland

Job done  

It might not have been pretty but it's a results business  

Can't see us not qualifying now


True enough but this was a “don’t lose” game. If and when England qualify, the games are “must win”. Different kettle of fish.

I wouldn’t trust this manager to select the right team or tactics for that job.



“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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HertsGTFC
June 18, 2021, 10:03pm

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See the celtic mafia of Keane & Souness getting stuck into England.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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promotion plaice
June 18, 2021, 10:05pm

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Quoted from HertsGTFC
See the celtic mafia of Keane & Souness getting stuck into England.

And it was a poor result for Scotland.



I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one.
Brian Clough.
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psgmariner
June 18, 2021, 10:06pm

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Boring and frustrating but the guy who got England to the semi final of a World Cup and all his staff probably know more than us. Judge him when our tournament is over.


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DB
June 18, 2021, 10:07pm
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Couldn't hear Kane's interview, I think he said something like Scotland are 44th in world rankings and we are 4th a draw is a good result, so I think we did well. It was a local derby, much more than a tournament game, it was important not to lose so we didn't have to score until they scored.

Yeah a good result, especially for the fans, lets face it we didn't have to score so we didn't.


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ska face
June 18, 2021, 10:07pm

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Quoted from HertsGTFC
See the celtic mafia of Keane & Souness getting stuck into England.


Ian Wright absolutely slaughtering them too, as well as most of the England fans in the ground.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 18, 2021, 10:08pm
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Quoted from HertsGTFC
See the celtic mafia of Keane & Souness getting stuck into England.


I should hope so.

I commended England for a mature performance against Croatia. They played like a bunch of matures tonight.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 18, 2021, 10:12pm
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Quoted from psgmariner
Boring and frustrating but the guy who got England to the semi final of a World Cup and all his staff probably know more than us. Judge him when our tournament is over.


Southgate’s a clever guy.

He will have drilled into the players that, match the Scottish energy, match the desire, you win the match.

They just didn’t move. Didn’t compete. Very embarrassed.
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ginnywings
June 18, 2021, 10:14pm

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Don't know why anyone is surprised. I've spent half a century watching fancied England teams huff and puff at tournaments.

Thought they only had to turn up to win and didn't work hard enough.

Scotland the better team and deserved their point.
Thought we should have brought Calvert Lewin on for Kane and tried to ruffle their centre backs, who were excellent.


notonemorepenny
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Oggyfish
June 18, 2021, 10:14pm
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Don't see where the England goals are going to come from?
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DB
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Quoted from bawarmy


I have a vision of you never watching any other game apart from a grimsby game and that was your first other game. England have always let us down .


I watched an England game that didn't let anybody down. I have a vision of people hitting keys on a board without thinking about what they are typing.

My England game that didn't let me down, nor the entire nation was in 1966, we won the WORLD CUP.  




You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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psgmariner
June 18, 2021, 10:15pm

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Southgate’s a clever guy.

He will have drilled into the players that, match the Scottish energy, match the desire, you win the match.

They just didn’t move. Didn’t compete. Very embarrassed.


Try not to worry too much. I’m sure we will go further than Scotland.


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AdamHaddock
June 18, 2021, 10:15pm

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Oh well. A draw with the Czechs put us in through in second and we avoid the group of death teams


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heppy88
June 18, 2021, 10:19pm
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Where is the passion, grit, determination? Who is the motivator, Southgate, Kane? Kane frankly looked like he couldn’t be arsed and Southgate stood motionless the entire game. I’m sure people will say it’s worth it for the point, conceded none, but it’s tedious to watch and against Italy, France, Belgium I believe our arses will be well and truly kicked.
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Manchester Mariner
June 18, 2021, 10:21pm

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I've noticed a fair few players in recent years being seen as being able to 'turn a game' for England. Joe Cole, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Deli Ali and now seemingly Jack Grealish. Personally I don't see being able to 'draw a foul' as being something massively beneficial especially when faced with a well disciplined side like Scotland tonight. He's no Matt Le Tissier.


"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
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mariner91
June 18, 2021, 10:26pm
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Kane was embarrassingly bad. He's barely ever in the penalty area and there aren't many runs or much penetration from deeper. Going to find scoring goals very difficult if we continue like this.


Looking forward to a brighter future now Fenty has gone.
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ginnywings
June 18, 2021, 10:31pm

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Mason Mount was fooking dreadful. His corners were shocking.

I also don't know why we persist with two holding midfielders. Kante does more than both combined.


notonemorepenny
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DB
June 18, 2021, 10:31pm
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Quoted from heppy88
Where is the passion, grit, determination? Who is the motivator, Southgate, Kane? Kane frankly looked like he couldn’t be arsed and Southgate stood motionless the entire game. I’m sure people will say it’s worth it for the point, conceded none, but it’s tedious to watch and against Italy, France, Belgium I believe our arses will be well and truly kicked.


Southgate just said he took Kane off to give the team more energy. Captain, leader and main forward with no energy???????

Foden comes off, who had a decent game, and Grealish comes on. No improvement.

Southgate also said that if you're not going to win (were not good enough ) then make sure you don't lose!

I think England were very lucky and didn't seem comforable.



You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Maringer
June 18, 2021, 10:35pm
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When you start a game with 6 defensive outfield players against a team 40 places below you in the world rankings, it shows there is something wrong with your whole setup. Especially when said defensive players don't exactly snuff out the opposition threat! If I was a Scot tonight, I'd be disappointed on missing out on 3 points as they were certainly there with a bit more luck.

Absolutely no point in putting Kane on the teamsheet with the way we're playing at the moment (and the way he is playing to a degree). Southgate has developed a style of play (such as it is) which doesn't play to any of the strengths of our best striker, so we'd be better off leaving him on the bench and putting someone else in the team who suits it better. One-twos from midfield and chips over the top to players running on is what we aim to do so stick Rashford or Sancho in the team instead and leave Kane on the bench as a plan B when we're chasing games.

In the last World Cup, we scored lots of goals from set piece, did little from open play but defended quite well in general. This tournament, we're not scoring goals from set pieces and are doing little from open play. Defended averagely tonight after replacing defensively capable full-backs with players less capable. Quality of most of the set pieces today was dismal, other than the one from which Stones missed his chance. Without a big improvement, we won't even be knocked out in the quarter-finals.

Lots of ability in this squad but no apparent plan as to how it should be used. Absolutely no chance of winning this tournament that I can see.
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TAGG
June 18, 2021, 10:51pm

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Quoted from LH


If you don’t like watching players a level or two below the level your team is at playing in an organised set up to frustrate then I’d highly recommend giving at least the next season at BP a pass.


Idiot


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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Abdul19
June 18, 2021, 11:39pm

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Quoted from mariner91
Kane was embarrassingly bad. He's barely ever in the penalty area and there aren't many runs or much penetration from deeper. Going to find scoring goals very difficult if we continue like this.


Must've touched the ball 20 times in 2 games.


“I hit the ball as though it owed me money.”
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Yossarian
June 18, 2021, 11:47pm
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As per Sunday - what a bag of shyte. I had a think about this today....here is my reaction to all the tournaments I can remember:

1982: Bewildered...too young
1986: Heart broken when Maradonna stole the game from England (even though with hind sight we kicked the crap out of him for 90 mins)
1990: Still burns
1996: I was at all the games - heartbroken when Gazza missed that tap in
1998: I was in France - distraught
2000: Too violent - avoided - England under Kegan were a joke - got over it
2002: Was at the tournament - England were terrible - Not that bothered when we lost
2004: Gutted - really thought England had a great team and unlucky against Portugal - went to all England games
2006: Avoided all England games - disgraceful Peak Gerrard and John Terry - happy to see them eliminated
2010: Didn't really care - accepted our fate
2012: Hilariously retarted football
2014: Hilariously retarded football
2016: Hilariously retarded football
2018: Not a bunch of male masturbators - mildly surprised - bit not heartbroken when eliminated (its the hope that kills you)
2020/21: Distanced sense of "why am I not that excited about this anymore"
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Rodley Mariner
June 18, 2021, 11:49pm
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Win tonight = we'll urine this tinpot tournament.

Draw tonight = angsty over analysis of everything.
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spartacus
June 18, 2021, 11:50pm
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Being generous, felt like a team that didn't want to lose (and be embarrassed); Being extra generous felt like a plan to navigate an easier route through the next few stages. Being honest, thought we just had a bad day at the office. Being critical, not good enough to beat the top teams in the competition.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 18, 2021, 11:54pm
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Quoted from spartacus
Being generous, felt like a team that didn't want to lose (and be embarrassed); Being extra generous felt like a plan to navigate an easier route through the next few stages. Being honest, thought we just had a bad day at the office. Being critical, not good enough to beat the top teams in the competition.


That’s a very dangerous game to play though.

We were never in control of that match. We’re not good enough to be throwing games just to be knocked out in the QF.
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Maringer
June 18, 2021, 11:56pm
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Southgate said we were too frantic at times in his post-match interview.

Possibly the only person on the planet to think 'frantic' after that turgid display.
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spartacus
June 19, 2021, 12:01am
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That’s a very dangerous game to play though.

We were never in control of that match. We’re not good enough to be throwing games just to be knocked out in the QF.


Agreed, that's why it was an "extra generous" thought. Honestly thought we just had a bad game and we will  have better performances. Just not convinced we are quite good enough, to win outright. Maybe quarter final disappointment beckons.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 19, 2021, 12:28am
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Part of me wants Southgate to play the likes of Mount, Foden and Grealish deeper and bin the non-protective double pivot.

However, none of Tuchel, Guardiola or Smith trust them to play there for their clubs.

To win a tournament you either need a strong defensive unit, ability to retain possession under pressure or the fitness and intelligence to press strongly. Realistically you need at least two of those three.

We don’t do any of these particularly well which is why France, Italy or Portugal will win it.
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Withnail
June 19, 2021, 12:33am
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England are shite. Don't buy the media bullshit. We're really not that good. Knock out stages would be an achievement for this second rate team.

We're a million miles behind the likes of France, Belgium and Portugal as well as arguably Italy too.
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Withnail
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Quoted from psgmariner
Boring and frustrating but the guy who got England to the semi final of a World Cup and all his staff probably know more than us. Judge him when our tournament is over.


We got lucky with the urine poor opposition we faced.
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Hagrid
June 19, 2021, 1:13am

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Will never win anything with Southgate
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Mayaman
June 19, 2021, 3:16am
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Quoted from DB


I watched an England game that didn't let anybody down. I have a vision of people hitting keys on a board without thinking about what they are typing.

My England game that didn't let me down, nor the entire nation was in 1966, we won the WORLD CUP.  




I want to be entertained if I get up at 2am.
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Bignic69
June 19, 2021, 3:23am
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Quoted from TAGG
Southgate has some of the best young talent in the footballing world and can't get em to beat a bunch off mugs.
Hes flipping excrement.
It's an embarrassment


Whilst i think we definitely should be beating Scotland, they're far from mugs. Granted there is a handful of their players that are not household names but a good chunk of their starting 11 play in the premier league at clubs like Liverpool, Man Utd, Villa and Arsenal. So not only are they operating at very good level week in week out, they also know our team very well.
Add the fact that they were always going to raise their game ten fold against us and it was always going to be a difficult one.


Back of the net
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KingstonMariner
June 19, 2021, 9:03am
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Well that was shite last night. England allowed themselves to be dragged down to Scotland's level. If you hope to win tournaments you must have players who have the mentality to keep a lid on emotions. It doesn't matter if Scotland 'raise their game' if you keep your cool and keep passing (which means players moving into positions where a sensible pass is an option. England reverted to type. Different players, same old approach.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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GollyGTFC
June 19, 2021, 9:21am

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If we're going to have Declan Rice drop back to about 5 yards in front of the centre-backs to receive the ball only to then play a simple sideways pass to the full-backs you might as well play 3 at the back and give the full-backs more license to get forward and play them as wing-backs.

But the bigger issue is Harry Kane. Southgate has gone all in on Kane and his form is terrible and he doesn't look match sharp. But what are the alternatives? Rashford isn't a solo striker and Dominic Calvert-Lewin is the only out and out striker other than Kane is the squad. When you see the endless attacking midfielders and right-backs in the squad you can't help feeling that Southgate should have not taken Saka & either Walker or James and taken Patrick Bamford & Danny Ings instead.

For the Czech Republic game I'd like to pick this team on the basis that Jordan Henderson won't be ready to start & Harry Kane is on his last chance to find some form before we thrown Dominic Calvert-Lewin in instead...

                  PICKFORD
         MAGUIRE   STONES    MINGS
TRIPPIER                            CHILWELL
          BELLINGHAM     PHILLIPS
     FODEN          KANE          GREALISH
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HertsGTFC
June 19, 2021, 9:27am

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In reality we have less to do than Croatia & Scotland to get through to the knockout stages, then again the other piece of reality is that even in European football we’re a 2nd tier nation.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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TownSNAFU5
June 19, 2021, 9:41am
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Never mind the lifeless team performance, lacking desire and quality, the use of subs was probably as bad.  Kane has had 4 consecutive tournament games where he has been poor.  

My dad took me to my only England against Poland in 1974.  We drew then and went out the World Cup but we at least tried everything to win.  Not much has changed overall in nearly 50 years.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
June 19, 2021, 9:49am
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I was asked a few weeks back if I had a problem with Southgate. Now I think a lot of people have a problem with him. He is a good man, he looks after his lads and protects them from criticism. But that ability is not the one that brings home trophies unless you get very, very lucky.

This wasn’t a game they had to win, they just had to avoid losing. I accept that. I accept that the Scots were up for it. But this is a competition, all sides will be up for it, except England it seems. Where was the pressing game? Where were the Philips runs through the middle? Where was the Sterling pace down the outside?we were back to the slow, slow, slow, slow. By the time Grealish appeared it was too late to upset the Scots, they had an ambush planned for him but Southgate is too slow to see this left opportunities elsewhere.

I fear that the first side England meets that has the same resolution as the Scots but more firepower will see us out of the tournament and no one will care if the final is in Budapest, London or Dubai.


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 19, 2021, 9:50am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC
If we're going to have Declan Rice drop back to about 5 yards in front of the centre-backs to receive the ball only to then play a simple sideways pass to the full-backs you might as well play 3 at the back and give the full-backs more license to get forward and play them as wing-backs.

But the bigger issue is Harry Kane. Southgate has gone all in on Kane and his form is terrible and he doesn't look match sharp. But what are the alternatives? Rashford isn't a solo striker and Dominic Calvert-Lewin is the only out and out striker other than Kane is the squad. When you see the endless attacking midfielders and right-backs in the squad you can't help feeling that Southgate should have not taken Saka & either Walker or James and taken Patrick Bamford & Danny Ings instead.

For the Czech Republic game I'd like to pick this team on the basis that Jordan Henderson won't be ready to start & Harry Kane is on his last chance to find some form before we thrown Dominic Calvert-Lewin in instead...

                  PICKFORD
         MAGUIRE   STONES    MINGS
TRIPPIER                            CHILWELL
          BELLINGHAM     PHILLIPS
     FODEN          KANE          GREALISH


The problem with that is that the Czechs play 5 in midfield. Foden and Grealish will drop into midfield, which leaves an unfit and (non-Ciro) immobile Kane isolated up front.




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Mayaman
June 19, 2021, 9:52am
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I'd rather go out like the plucky Danes.  when they went 1-0 up against Belgium, they kept pushing forward  The Welsh too played with a spark against a physical Turkey.  Both  goals were well worked.   The second goal, they could have taken the ball into the corner to wind down the time.
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GollyGTFC
June 19, 2021, 9:53am

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Quoted from HertsGTFC
In reality we have less to do than Croatia & Scotland to get through to the knockout stages, then again the other piece of reality is that even in European football we’re a 2nd tier nation.


We're already through though aren't we? We can't finish bottom & 4 points will be enough even if we lose to the Czechs & Scotland beat Croatia with enough goal difference swing for them to pip us the 2nd. By the time we play on Tuesday night 4 of the other groups will have been completed and we will already be guaranteed qualification.

Tuesday will just decide where we finish & how difficult the path to the Final is.

We ideally want to be in the bottom half of the draw...

Top Half of Draw

B 1st - Belgium
? 3rd - 20% chance of being 3rd in England's group

A 1st - Italy
C 2nd - Ukraine/Austria?

F 1st - France?
? 3rd -

D 2nd - England (if we finish 2nd)
E 2nd - Sweden/Spain?

Bottom Half of Draw

E 1st - Spain/Sweden?
? 3rd - 30% chance of being 3rd in England's group

D 1st - England (if we win group)
F 2nd - Portugal/Germany?

C 1st - Netherlands
? 3rd - 50% chance of being 3rd in England's group

A 2nd - Wales/Switzerland?
B 2nd - Russia/Finland/Denmark?


If we finish 2nd we'd have a very winnable Round of 16 match, but then we'd have a QF against France & if we somehow got through that it would be Italy or Belgium in the SF.

If we win the group we'd have a home Round of 16 match probably against Germany or Portugal and after that it would be a QF (possibly Spain) and a SF against maybe Netherland (or Wales).

If we finish 3rd we are 80% certain of the being in the bottom half of the draw as things stand.
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LH
June 19, 2021, 9:55am

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It gets a bit players becoming Ballon D’or winners while sitting on the bench stuff but not getting Sancho involved at all (16gls/20 assists for Dortmund this season) and not starting Grealish who draws opponents in and turns that into dead balls in dangerous areas seems very strange. I know managers have their favourites but Kane and Sterling are well off it. Kane does this for Spurs every now and again but does come back into form fairly quickly but he can’t do that without service. Persisting with two DMs and not utilising the talent we have at wingback is frustrating too but this is England in a modern game where not losing is as important as winning. Portugal won this daft format last time winning one game in 90 minutes…
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GollyGTFC
June 19, 2021, 9:56am

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The problem with that is that the Czechs play 5 in midfield. Foden and Grealish will drop into midfield, which leaves an unfit and (non-Ciro) immobile Kane isolated up front.



And there we have the big problem with England (especially under Southgate)...

We always worry about what the opposition are going to do and don't just play to our strengths and have confidence that we will beat them if we do.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 19, 2021, 10:10am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


And there we have the big problem with England (especially under Southgate)...

We always worry about what the opposition are going to do and don't just play to our strengths and have confidence that we will beat them if we do.


Yes, Hurst often gets blamed for that.

But as with Hurst, if you know your opponents are playing 5 in midfield, you can’t really play two.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
June 19, 2021, 10:12am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


We're already through though aren't we? We can't finish bottom & 4 points will be enough even if we lose to the Czechs & Scotland beat Croatia with enough goal difference swing for them to pip us the 2nd. By the time we play on Tuesday night 4 of the other groups will have been completed and we will already be guaranteed qualification.

Tuesday will just decide where we finish & how difficult the path to the Final is.

We ideally want to be in the bottom half of the draw...

Top Half of Draw

B 1st - Belgium
? 3rd - 20% chance of being 3rd in England's group

A 1st - Italy
C 2nd - Ukraine/Austria?

F 1st - France?
? 3rd -

D 2nd - England (if we finish 2nd)
E 2nd - Sweden/Spain?

Bottom Half of Draw

E 1st - Spain/Sweden?
? 3rd - 30% chance of being 3rd in England's group

D 1st - England (if we win group)
F 2nd - Portugal/Germany?

C 1st - Netherlands
? 3rd - 50% chance of being 3rd in England's group

A 2nd - Wales/Switzerland?
B 2nd - Russia/Finland/Denmark?


If we finish 2nd we'd have a very winnable Round of 16 match, but then we'd have a QF against France & if we somehow got through that it would be Italy or Belgium in the SF.

If we win the group we'd have a home Round of 16 match probably against Germany or Portugal and after that it would be a QF (possibly Spain) and a SF against maybe Netherland (or Wales).

If we finish 3rd we are 80% certain of the being in the bottom half of the draw as things stand.


I think I’d rather go out to a favourite and blame it on a VAR decision or a gust of wind, than go out on penalties to Sweden after a double pivot fuelled 0-0 draw.
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GollyGTFC
June 19, 2021, 10:16am

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Yes, Hurst often gets blamed for that.

But as with Hurst, if you know your opponents are playing 5 in midfield, you can’t really play two.


Would Hurst change? There are 24 teams at Euro 2020. We are the 3rd highest ranked team (FIFA World Ranking) at the tournament. Czech Republic are the 21st ranked team.

Did Hurst ever change his system at Town against a team in the bottom 4? Would he have changed his system to match up Histon? Or Welling United? Or Nuneaton Town? Never!
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buckstown
June 19, 2021, 10:16am
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I like Southgate a lot but our problem has been constant for 3 years
When it’s not going we’ll we don’t have a plan B. Our subs are like for like and I just can’t recall a game changing moment
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GollyGTFC
June 19, 2021, 10:19am

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Quoted from buckstown
I like Southgate a lot but our problem has been constant for 3 years
When it’s not going we’ll we don’t have a plan B. Our subs are like for like and I just can’t recall a game changing moment


Longer than that.

2018 World Cup...

We beat Tunisia, Panama & Sweden.
We drew with Colombia.
We lost to Belgium, Croatia & Belgium again.
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Humbercod
June 19, 2021, 11:32am
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Boring manager boring football, Southgate was never the right man his body language offers nothing inspirational only dour, Belgium France or Italy would embarrass us, sooner were out the better, get someone the players actually look up to. Just watched a documentary on the euros in 96 and the team and Venebles just felt right the players today admit they were gutted when he resigned, I very much doubt the players will feel the same when Southgate goes.


No sugar in mine love.
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Meza
June 19, 2021, 11:36am

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Quoted from Humbercod
Boring manager boring football, Southgate was never the right man his body language offers nothing inspirational only dour, Belgium France or Italy would embarrass us, sooner were out the better, get someone the players actually look up to. Just watched a documentary on the euros in 96 and the team and Venebles just felt right the players today admit they were gutted when he resigned, I very much doubt the players will feel the same when Southgate goes.


Lampard for me.




My Grimsby Legends
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Rodley Mariner
June 19, 2021, 11:40am
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We weren't the best team in the tournament after beating Croatia and we're not the worst after failing to beat Scotland. Could still very easily end up winning our group without conceding a goal and we'll have a punchers chance against anyone. Tournament football is a funny thing and plenty of history of organised, unspectacular teams doing well, particularly if they get a bit of luck with injuries and refs and especially if they're good in penalty shootouts. People talk about Italia 90 and Euro 96 but England were spectacularly average in more than one game in each of those tournaments.
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Perkins
June 19, 2021, 11:53am
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I doubt Scotland will play like that again, they were well up for it, National pride played a big part in the game, nearly all the Scots would have put their life on the line to beat
" The Auld Enemy", Wales won the other night, not because they were particularly the best side, although Turkey were poor, but because they played with passion, pride and belief, small nations do that, unfortunately England don't.












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grimsby pete
June 19, 2021, 12:17pm

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The problem with Southgate is he will send out a team that is very hard to beat.

But

Although he has plenty of attacking options he is reluctant to start with them.

He will not change so we will have to wait until the FA appoint a manager who is willing to take the chance that our attack will score more than the opposition.

We have the attack to win tournaments and a defence that is also capable we just need to get the balance right.


                             Over 34 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             66 Years following the Town
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Civvy at last
June 19, 2021, 12:47pm

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Quoted from TownSNAFU5


My dad took me to my only England against Poland in 1974.  We drew then and went out the World Cup but we at least tried everything to win.  Not much has changed overall in nearly 50 years.


If I recall correctly, the ‘clown’ in goal for them had a superb game. Thanks Cloughie 😕


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied
That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked

She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  
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Sir Matt Tease
June 19, 2021, 1:09pm
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England will never win this tournament playing sideways/backwards,sideways/backwards, good god that was bad !

How on earth could Scotland be deemed more "Up For It" than England ? It really beggars belief !

If these players spent as much time on their commitment to football as they do to their virtue signalling bullsh1t we would be world class !

As for Southgate, a perfect manager for the English FA, Beige, Bland and Boring !

Anybody who thinks we can win this competition needs to give their head a wobble !

Awful !
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Mariner93er
June 19, 2021, 1:20pm
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Southgate is clearly a really nice guy, generates a good team spirit and talks to the media well. But he’s tactically inept. When you watch the top teams, they play with purpose. We don’t. Under Southgate we play walking football with no temp or intensity. It’s very frustrating but I genuinely believe this is the best squad we’ve had in a long time, but it’s being wasted.
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lee65
June 19, 2021, 1:57pm
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England will never win a major tournament again while our domestic game runs like it does

Plastic fans love the spectacle of the Premiership and this is what drives the game.  How many of the starters each week qualify for England, 10%?
Consequently, how many of the England “superstars” would be deemed to be in the highest rated couple of players at their own clubs?
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Gaffer58
June 19, 2021, 3:53pm
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Always said English players look good when playing for their clubs, they are surrounded by very good foreigners, look at the majority of the premiership, 2/3 English players in each team, then when those English players get to the internationals they are surrounded by good English players, but no foreigners to move them up a level, probably why England have only ever won 1 World Cup,at home, over the last 56 years.
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DB
June 19, 2021, 5:26pm
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
Never mind the lifeless team performance, lacking desire and quality, the use of subs was probably as bad.  Kane has had 4 consecutive tournament games where he has been poor.  

My dad took me to my only England against Poland in 1974.  We drew then and went out the World Cup but we at least tried everything to win.  Not much has changed overall in nearly 50 years.


I agree with what you say. No win in any tor=urnament since 1966, 55 years tells the truth about every England performance. We have some very good individuals at times, but as a team they become useless.

Since Alf Ramsey every manager has failed, so has the FA in employing the wrong man, or someone as a safe option. The managers and FA board who have failed us are very good at one thing and one thing only, excuses.



You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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promotion plaice
June 19, 2021, 5:34pm

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Quoted from DB
Since Alf Ramsey every manager has failed, so has the FA in employing the wrong man, or someone as a safe option. The managers and FA board who have failed us are very good at one thing and one thing only, excuses.

I would have loved to have seen Cloughy given the job, what a missed opportunity that was.



I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one.
Brian Clough.
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DB
June 19, 2021, 6:25pm
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Quoted from promotion plaice

I would have loved to have seen Cloughy given the job, what a missed opportunity that was.



I agree and I think Harry Redknapp would have been good as well.



You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Humbercod
June 19, 2021, 6:25pm
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Quoted from promotion plaice

I would have loved to have seen Cloughy given the job, what a missed opportunity that was.



To outspoken!  and it’s gone that way ever since, that’s why we have Southgate.


No sugar in mine love.
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mimma
June 19, 2021, 6:44pm
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I think that Southgate has allowed himself to become obsessed with what people have said about not being able to defend. We have the best team going forward of any team in Europe, so concentrate on what we are good at, not what we are not so good at. The best form of defence is attack. You win by scoring more than the other team, not by keeping them out.
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Kris2
June 19, 2021, 7:01pm
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Quoted from Humbercod


To outspoken!  and it’s gone that way ever since, that’s why we have Southgate.


We have Southgate because no manager worth his salt would want the England job, especially with the players we have now it's long past top drawer managers wanting it. If you take out Capello, our last few managers read like a who's who of lower table PL managers who are good at keeping teams treading water but never great champions of the sport. Southgate looking like that friendly substitute teacher everyone wishes could teach the class all the time doesn't help. There doesn't feel like any passion or competitiveness about a very young side, they are just enjoying themselves and the match v Scotland was just a kick about with their mates. Can tell it didn't mean to them what it means to the fans.

I'm not even sure what manager would want the job now that has the ability to make these players play like they mean it.
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Maringer
June 19, 2021, 9:22pm
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Quoted from lee65
England will never win a major tournament again while our domestic game runs like it does

Plastic fans love the spectacle of the Premiership and this is what drives the game.  How many of the starters each week qualify for England, 10%?
Consequently, how many of the England “superstars” would be deemed to be in the highest rated couple of players at their own clubs?


Five of the starting team against Scotland, that's 50% of the outfield players, were starters in this year's Champions League Final, theoretically played between the two best teams in Europe. You'd have to think they ought to be good enough to play a bit better than we saw last night. As so often with England, our midfield didn't get a grip in the game which isn't perhaps surprising when you're playing with two holding midfielders. Phillips tried to get forward a couple of times but that's just not enough at international level and the passing was dismally slow.
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mariner91
June 19, 2021, 9:46pm
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Quoted from mimma
I think that Southgate has allowed himself to become obsessed with what people have said about not being able to defend. We have the best team going forward of any team in Europe, so concentrate on what we are good at, not what we are not so good at. The best form of defence is attack. You win by scoring more than the other team, not by keeping them out.


I'd have France's forward options over our own any day of the week. Mbappe on his own is more threat than our entire team.


Looking forward to a brighter future now Fenty has gone.
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