Jock Curran

Twitter rumours linking him with a move to Nottingham Forest.

Apparently Nottingham Forest want him for their U23's.  We raise a lot of money for our youth set up only for the likes of Curran and Burrell being poached. I do wander if we make any money out of it.

Didn't he sign a contract?

Quoted from MarinerMart

Didn't he sign a contract?

Was definitely offered a deal, but I don't know if it was confirmed that he's actually signed it?

Think he signed a two year deal with an option on a third. Was retweeted by his dad on twitter.

He's a pro with us. We made 100k for Burrell which good business for someone unproven but with this latest revelation I'm wondering if we could have a great nucleus of young talent ready to come through only for sections of it to be cherry-picked away by the big boys.

But unfortunately we a selling club, after all gotta find couple hundred K to pay back Fenty's loans each Season now...

Quoted from Rik e B

He's a pro with us. We made 100k for Burrell which good business for someone unproven but with this latest revelation I'm wondering if we could have a great nucleus of young talent ready to come through only for sections of it to be cherry-picked away by the big boys.

But unfortunately we a selling club, after all gotta find couple hundred K to pay back Fenty's loans each Season now...

Did we though?

Quoted from Bigdog

Did we though?

Absolutely not. It could rise to 100k eventually. I imagine it’ll about 10% of that.

I’ve got no idea how good this lad is but it’s a real shame for the club that these young players with talent can just be poached after they’ve been given the time to develop by the youth set up . There’s little chance for clubs like Gtfc in the lower divisions to develop and sell talent for their real worth , benefiting not only the club in terms of ££ for the first team but also investment back into the youth development for further years of young talent. Makes you fooking sick tbh .

Is it me or could the club reject a bid if it not right for the club. If indeed he signed a pro contract for 2 years we can be a bit more subborn and do we also get a fee regardless whether he is under 23

We used to get at least a year or two from our best youngsters before they moved on. Now the big clubs are getting round Bosman by signing them before they have a proper professional contract. Depressing.

If he's  signed he ain't  going anywhere without a fee the club are happy with, so I can't  see any reason  to take peanuts.

A lot of clubs have abandoned their youth set ups because of this.

Didn't Walsall get rid of their youth set up which meant that we got Neil Woods back?

Great opportunity for him if true, probally a few hundred quid more a week and the training facilities of big clubs, but far better opportunity of breaking into the first team with Grimsby Town in League Two.  Same goes for Burrell.

Pity we can't keep these young players for a few years and see what they really can do and increase their sale value.

To be fair I think the only player we ever got ripped off that came through our youth system was Kevin Drinkell.

None of the others that we sold enhanced their value after they left us ???

Quoted from promotion plaice

To be fair I think the only player we ever got ripped off that came through our youth system was Kevin Drinkell.

None of the others that we sold enhanced their value after they left us ???

John Oster didn't do too bad

The trouble is, that these so called bigger clubs turn young playes heads away from where they are probably quite happy.Once a player sees bigger stars in the sky you have lost them

Quoted from Bigdog

Did we though?

Right okay, stand corrected. 👍

Quoted from mimma

John Oster didn't do too bad

Didn’t increase value though. We sold him for £1.5 million. Only other fee he was involved in was £1million.

Ryan Bennett?

Quoted from GrimRob

We used to get at least a year or two from our best youngsters before they moved on. Now the big clubs are getting round Bosman by signing them before they have a proper professional contract. Depressing.

Any player on a youth contract i.e. below 17 and signed with our youth team we get money for. Furthermore, we get solidarity payments of anywhere between 1% to 5% depending on how long they trained with us between the ages 12 to 23.

Quoted from SheepGTFC

Any player on a youth contract i.e. below 17 and signed with our youth team we get money for. Furthermore, we get solidarity payments of anywhere between 1% to 5% depending on how long they trained with us between the ages 12 to 23.

"In deciding on a compensation figure, it is not uncommon for the PFCC to set fees that build as the player becomes more established at first team level.   It has now become quite usual for clubs to receive a basic compensation fee with further payments becoming due on the player’s debut, following a certain numbers of first-team appearances and after international appearances. It is also usual for there to be a sell-on fee should the player be sold at a profit at any point in the future."

Source : http://fullcontactlaw.co.uk/2016/11/compensation-players-24-mystery/

No way is a club like ours in a position to reject money for unproven players. We apparently got 6 figures for Jack Barlow from Hull and he ended up playing for Meggies. Adam Drury was another local lad who went to Man City and ended up at GY Borough. Don't blame the club for taking any money they can get. At the end of the day we got Ryan Bennet and Gary Croft after they had been developed by other club's youth systems.

Quoted from promotion plaice

To be fair I think the only player we ever got ripped off that came through our youth system was Kevin Drinkell.

None of the others that we sold enhanced their value after they left us ???

Paul Wilkinson & Kev Moore were another two but certainly no player in more recent times other than Bennett.

Quoted from Vance Warner

No way is a club like ours in a position to reject money for unproven players. We apparently got 6 figures for Jack Barlow from Hull and he ended up playing for Meggies. Adam Drury was another local lad who went to Man City and ended up at GY Borough. Don't blame the club for taking any money they can get. At the end of the day we got Ryan Bennet and Gary Croft after they had been developed by other club's youth systems.

I’m old enough to remember Croft playing for Town as a youngster but not quite enough to remember the details. I’d always assumed he was a product of our youth system - where had he been prior to that?

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Absolutely not. It could rise to 100k eventually. I imagine it’ll about 10% of that.

Not doubting you but is this official.

He will go, can’t stand in his way

Quoted from promotion plaice

To be fair I think the only player we ever got ripped off that came through our youth system was Kevin Drinkell.

None of the others that we sold enhanced their value after they left us ???

Kev Moore went to Oldham for just over £100k in Jan 1987, six months later he went to Southampton for £135k.

We only got ripped off with Bennett when Barry Fry renegotiated the sell on clause.

It would be great if most of our starting 11 were academy graduates but it just isn't going to happen. Clifton is established as a first team player but if Slade had not been sacked, he would probably have been released and playing for Clee Town now.

We got over the odds for Barlow. If we sell these players, the key is to negotiate a decent sell on clause.

Don't forget we only got Bennett because Ipswich did not think he was good enough,

Where are they now  ?    

Quoted from grimsby pete

Don't forget we only got Bennett because Ipswich did not think he was good enough,

Where are they now  ?    

In league 1.. the league above us...still...

Quoted from Rik e B

Right okay, stand corrected. 👍

No worries mate.

We'll probably end up with no more than 20k for developing Burrell. If we were getting 100k once a season for a youngster and others made it into our first team squad to hopefully boost their value to far more than 100k, then that would be a fine business model, but in reality bigger teams can pick off our youngsters for peanuts like Boro did and it looks like Forest could well do. They can stockpile all the players they want just in case one makes it to being a Championship player. If not, they can offload the players down the leagues again. The Championship clubs don't suffer, it's peanuts for them, the discarded players will probably land back into League One, League Two or the Conference, so they won't suffer, it's just clubs like ours who'll suffer by not improving our first team through youth policy and by not cashing in on their full worth after completing their professional development with first team football. There's a huge difference between getting 15/20k and 100k for Burrell in a lot of ways..

I think there’s so many variables when it comes to young players coming through academies. Some players look like world beaters at 16/17 but by 19/20 they’ve not developed or even regressed. I suppose it’s a bit of guess work to the untrained eyes like us or spotting minor characteristics in them for scouts or coaches that indicate wether they will progress or not.

For a selling club like ours it’s about maximising your assets. If players like Jock Curran or Rumarn Burrell stayed with us then then maybe after another year they will have broken into the first team and really developed to the point where they could be worth 10 times the amount we actually got for them, like Ryan Bennett or John Oster. On the other hand they might spend the year playing reserve football and not develop and end up released and at somewhere like Clee Town like Josh Venney or Caine Winfarrah. Looking back now with hindsight, would we have taken £100k for either of them? Of course, but on the flip would we have taken that for Bennett or Oster? Not a chance. It’s a gamble though, and with the likes of Clifton, Wright, Battersby, Pollock, Buckley and Rose all with the first team now as well as cash raised from young players who essentially only cost us a weekly YT wage then I’d say it’s going pretty well.

Quoted from jimgtfc

I think there’s so many variables when it comes to young players coming through academies. Some players look like world beaters at 16/17 but by 19/20 they’ve not developed or even regressed. I suppose it’s a bit of guess work to the untrained eyes like us or spotting minor characteristics in them for scouts or coaches that indicate wether they will progress or not.

For a selling club like ours it’s about maximising your assets. If players like Jock Curran or Rumarn Burrell stayed with us then then maybe after another year they will have broken into the first team and really developed to the point where they could be worth 10 times the amount we actually got for them, like Ryan Bennett or John Oster. On the other hand they might spend the year playing reserve football and not develop and end up released and at somewhere like Clee Town like Josh Venney or Caine Winfarrah. Looking back now with hindsight, would we have taken £100k for either of them? Of course, but on the flip would we have taken that for Bennett or Oster? Not a chance. It’s a gamble though, and with the likes of Clifton, Wright, Battersby, Pollock, Buckley and Rose all with the first team now as well as cash raised from young players who essentially only cost us a weekly YT wage then I’d say it’s going pretty well.

There is truth there Jim about maximising assets. I know we keep on about investing but the expenditure on a youth set up can be very high and there are no guarantees. You can be lucky and get 2 or 3 good enough for the first team or unlucky and get none out of a cohort of 2 years junior contracts. Times have changed from the Drinkell/Ford/Moore days too. The money on offer for young kids is far greater now. Who wouldn’t be tempted to have a go at the City Ground for a year or two? In this case the lad’s dad is an ex-pro with a list of clubs longer than a grand slam bridge hand so you can imagine the advice he gets.

Quoted from Poojah

I’m old enough to remember Croft playing for Town as a youngster but not quite enough to remember the details. I’d always assumed he was a product of our youth system - where had he been prior to that?

Port Vale I believe. Think he came to us on a YTS deal. Happy to be corrected.Think Peter Handyside came at a similar age but not sure where he'd been previously. What a classy pair of defenders before playing out from the back was fashionable!

Quoted from Bigdog

No worries mate.

We'll probably end up with no more than 20k for developing Burrell. If we were getting 100k once a season for a youngster and others made it into our first team squad to hopefully boost their value to far more than 100k, then that would be a fine business model, but in reality bigger teams can pick off our youngsters for peanuts like Boro did and it looks like Forest could well do. They can stockpile all the players they want just in case one makes it to being a Championship player. If not, they can offload the players down the leagues again. The Championship clubs don't suffer, it's peanuts for them, the discarded players will probably land back into League One, League Two or the Conference, so they won't suffer, it's just clubs like ours who'll suffer by not improving our first team through youth policy and by not cashing in on their full worth after completing their professional development with first team football. There's a huge difference between getting 15/20k and 100k for Burrell in a lot of ways..

Completely agree apart from the bit in bold. Players who could have made 100+ appearance before the age of 20 end up making one or two substitute appearances in the league cup. Players must be aware of this but maybe the lure of a big club and the money is too much to turn down.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

We only got ripped off with Bennett when Barry Fry renegotiated the sell on clause.

He tried to renegotiate the sell on clause, offered something like £20k to get rid of it, but fortunately Fenty didn't take him up on it

edit: bloody spellcheck

Quoted from scrumble

He tried renegotiate the seem on clause, offered something like £20k to get rid of it, but fortunately Fenty didn't take him up on it

Yes, it seems to be widely believed that fatty Fry's attempts were successful for some reason. (I'm fairly sure the sell on showed in the 11-12 accounts?)

Whether we get a fee, whether it proves enough or not in the long term we can only wait and see....my bigger worry is that this is the second of the more fancied players in our youth/ yt progamme to be sold on.....i thought Jolley would be keen to bring these through and develop them with his background and the recent opportunities given to other youngsters....disappointing for me and hopefully not a trend that will continue.

Regardless of the frustration of the current ease for bigger clubs to cherry pick youth players, the interest alone is another feather in the cap for Neil Woods and all his staff in the youth set-up.  They seem to be developing a nice little reputation as a bit of a finishing school for 16-18 year olds.

Curran has impressed me more with each occasion I've seen him. But he still seems a way off the finished article. It's more his rate of improvement than his present ability that impresses me.    

We stlll have a smallish squad that lacks experienced depth. I don't think we'll be making too many more signings so there should be plenty of opportunities for these young lads..

Be bloody brilliant if there was a point in the season where we had Pollock, Curran, Clifton, Buckley, Wright and Rose all on the pitch at the same time. Maybe even Battersby too.

Clubs like our rear their own talent for one reason and one reason only to sell on. To think that clubs in the  bottom half of L2  bring on youngsters to help climb the leagues is a nice thought but in reality not in line with the current game.

Looking at where we are now to get cash for the likes of Burrell who came on a few times and ran around a bit and Curran who has only just signed his first pro deal is well worth co considering if it helps bring in half decent experienced striker on a 2 year deal.    

Not a popular opinion I know but it's one that reflects the current reality.  
    

Quoted from Abdul19

Yes, it seems to be widely believed that fatty Fry's attempts were successful for some reason. (I'm fairly sure the sell on showed in the 11-12 accounts?)

I am sure I recall reading/hearing at the time from Fenty's mouth that we played an instrumental role in the deal going through.  That instrumental role could have been a delay on the money coming our way, I'm not sure.

Fry is certainly slippery.  I wonder how many times he has got away with cancelling sell on clauses over the years?

There was some extra confusion over whatever this was about (I remember we didn't get whatever it was): https://www.peterboroughtoday......ansfer-fee-1-6446671 , but we received the actual sell on.

I don’t think Jock actually signed a Pro deal with us. The reports that I have seen only suggest that it was offered.

????

Quoted from 1542

I don’t think Jock actually signed a Pro deal with us. The reports that I have seen only suggest that it was offered.

????

This, I wonder if he knew he was being watched and has held off signing?

TBH I  can't see Jolley allowing him to return to training let alone participate in pre-season games if he was umming and arring  about signing a contract.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

TBH I  can't see Jolley allowing him to return to training let alone participate in pre-season games if he was umming and arring  about signing a contract.

Why wouldn't he? If we offered him a contract but he had interest from elsewhere, it's entirely within his rights to consider what is best for his future. Also, if we don't allow him to train, then that would essentially mean we are releasing him and not due any compensation for him.

Quoted from lukeo

This, I wonder if he knew he was being watched and has held off signing?

The season ticket renewal pack booklet has a small section on the youngsters and says he signed in May.

Quoted from moosey_club

Whether we get a fee, whether it proves enough or not in the long term we can only wait and see....my bigger worry is that this is the second of the more fancied players in our youth/ yt progamme to be sold on.....i thought Jolley would be keen to bring these through and develop them with his background and the recent opportunities given to other youngsters....disappointing for me and hopefully not a trend that will continue.

While I agree with the point of your thread, the reality is that it is almost impossible to stop " bigger clubs " poaching talent from smaller clubs. They can offer better terms and facilities than we can and that is a fact. It's also easier to turn the head of a young player in making them think that the future is brighter elsewhere. You also have the appeal ( for a lot of youngsters at least ) of moving to a bigger town or city that has a better nightlife and social facilities. As long as we can consistently produce young players and turn a profit on them then surely that is good for the club. There is also the possibility of one or two being local and wanting to play for us as their " home club ".

Quoted from rancido

While I agree with the point of your thread, the reality is that it is almost impossible to stop " bigger clubs " poaching talent from smaller clubs. They can offer better terms and facilities than we can and that is a fact. It's also easier to turn the head of a young player in making them think that the future is brighter elsewhere. You also have the appeal ( for a lot of youngsters at least ) of moving to a bigger town or city that has a better nightlife and social facilities. As long as we can consistently produce young players and turn a profit on them then surely that is good for the club. There is also the possibility of one or two being local and wanting to play for us as their " home club ".

This has always been the case, maybe the difference is that the bigger clubs pick up players younger and that is an issue. At least when we were selling on the likes of Jimmy Fell, Brian Hill, Kev Moore, Kev Drinkell, John Oster etc..... we had a few games out of them first. They were the finished article.  I think we have to sell and needs must - if it is Curran for a few quid then it opens a porthole for another kid. But it does rankle if we don’t see the fruits of Woods’ labours grace the first team, at least for a short time, before moving on.

Quoted from rancido

While I agree with the point of your thread, the reality is that it is almost impossible to stop " bigger clubs " poaching talent from smaller clubs. They can offer better terms and facilities than we can and that is a fact. It's also easier to turn the head of a young player in making them think that the future is brighter elsewhere. You also have the appeal ( for a lot of youngsters at least ) of moving to a bigger town or city that has a better nightlife and social facilities. As long as we can consistently produce young players and turn a profit on them then surely that is good for the club. There is also the possibility of one or two being local and wanting to play for us as their " home club ".

to be honest  not sure how militant we can be with how the acadamy is now linked or funded, seem to remember an article somewhere that pretty much gives "free" pickings for any player that is part of registered acadamy (? or something) all in the name of making the England squad better.......  but i would just like the club to say ....fck off he is contracted to us......in this case that might not have been possible if he hadnt actually signed pro terms but Burrell and Curran have gone without really benefitting the team and for potential pittance depending on how they progress.
Just a shame we might not be seeing the fruits of our own system now that we are back in the League

I think that's about the cut of it.  We get funding in the form of breadcrumbs falling off the big table.  In turn the bigger clubs can cherry pick what they want off us for a pittance.  

Very frustrating and the reason that a number of clubs have axed their youth set-up as a result.  Walsall and Brentford are two teams that spring to mind.  

I suppose if we continue to develop young talent, it'll help establish links with bigger clubs and you can only hope that we would receive some sort of kick-back for doing their hard work for them, be it loan deals or steering players towards us who haven't quite made their grade.  

Not ideal, not what I want to see in the game but it's sadly the current state of play.