Could we have 'done a Tranmere' ?

We'll never know of course but could we have 'done a Tranmere' if Hurst had left the basis of the promotion team alone and just added a few here and there


Conference to League 1 in quick time doesn't look that difficult, well not for Tranmere, Lincoln, Luton et al just for Grimsby Town (and Cambridge before anyone points it out)

You speculate to accumulate so that ruled us out

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

You speculate to accumulate so that ruled us out

I don't know how much Tranmere have speculated. Lincoln OK and Luton too I suppose but how different is the Tranmere squad?

Total failure to capitalise on the momentum of promotion and Operation Promotion. Club happy to bask in the glory of selling 3000 season tickets without doing anything to go for a higher total. Then dicked around with managers and alienated the fans.

We could easily have done a Tranmere with the right approach at the top.

Quoted from Ipswin

I don't know how much Tranmere have speculated. Lincoln OK and Luton too I suppose but how different is the Tranmere squad?

I don't know that either for sure Swin, but I guess keeping their leading scorer from their National League promotion winning team rather than selling as we did maybe helped

The same manager and the same ethos would have helped no end too.... fine margins all along but they had a stability all season long that we never had in our first year back

We were doing OK till Hurst went so I guess the answer is possibly. We could have certainly done more to keep him, and Amond, and Toto but it's more about the mentality to me - for the last God knows how long, our board has wanted to cut corners financially, even though we've always been pretty well supported.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

We were doing OK till Hurst went so I guess the answer is possibly. We could have certainly done more to keep him, and Amond, and Toto but it's more about the mentality to me - for the last God knows how long, our board has wanted to cut corners financially, even though we've always been pretty well supported.

I don't think the blame (or reason) lies wholly with the board. I am firmly convinced that if Hurst had done more to keep the bulk of the play off winning team (especially the spine of Toto, Nolan and Amond) and added just one or two new faces we would have been serious play off challengers, like Tranmere this season

If we had an ambitious board and some stability who knows. We had such an unstable first season that we had no chance to build on new signings and gain any momentum. Hurst didn't keep players he later signed for Shrews so kinda shows he wasn't really interested and staying to build around his best players. We were not doing so badly at the point Bignot got the sack. He was dropped the day after a big away win.

Club has been a big mess since returning to the league which is how we left it. We need stability and to build a team on retaining key players and adding players around them that compliment their skills. We also need to start finding tactics that work. If Hurst had stayed that season,who knows but I don't think Hurst and some of his players cared after getting promoted and proving the critics among the fans wrong. From what Hurst and some of them said post GTFC they were not enjoying playing for us but enjoyed playing with Hurst.

If my aunt had had balls she would have been my uncle.

We can play the “what if” game for ever. We don’t know enough about the behind the scenes shenanigans that went on with Hurst and Bignot to make a real judgement. The only thing we do know is that the team lost momentum when it lost important players and momentum is the vital factor if you want to progress.

We did the multi-promotion trick twice in my time as a supporter and both times the key was keeping the core of a successful side and adding to it to keep things fresh. We didn’t get rid and start again like Hurst did.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

If my aunt had had balls she would have been my uncle.

We can play the “what if” game for ever. We don’t know enough about the behind the scenes shenanigans that went on with Hurst and Bignot to make a real judgement. The only thing we do know is that the team lost momentum when it lost important players and momentum is the vital factor if you want to progress.

We did the multi-promotion trick twice in my time as a supporter and both times the key was keeping the core of a successful side and adding to it to keep things fresh. We didn’t get rid and start again like Hurst did.

I would have thought that this can be arranged on the NHS nowadays so who knows.... maybe we could have done a Tranmere after all?

Quoted from Ipswin

I don't think the blame (or reason) lies wholly with the board. I am firmly convinced that if Hurst had done more to keep the bulk of the play off winning team (especially the spine of Toto, Nolan and Amond) and added just one or two new faces we would have been serious play off challengers, like Tranmere this season

Hurst dismantled the play off winning team because he knew it wasn't good enough.

We never threatened automatic promotion and only scraped past Braintree in the semis.

The team he put together for the league return was much better and the week before he left we were in the playoff places I think.

As usual the board messed up becasue they did not match Hursts ambition so he left for the mighty Shrewsbury.

The spine of the team went Nsiala, Nolan and Amond selling Bogle mid way through the season, Arnold went aswell, Gowling was a good player in the National League but looked out of depth at League 2 level.

Pearson released after the first season wasn't replaced by anyone better lost thst identity the club built over six years

All the excitement and the way the club was being run in The National League changed once we got promoted.

Fenty saying the fans were horrible to Hurst in that secret interview, Hurst wasn't so innocent he quit Boston for us, quit town for Shrewsbury, quit Shrewsbury for Ipswich he packing his boxes at Shrewsbury before the play off final.

The football we play in league 2 has been atrocious once Hurst left Bignot football was poor, Sladeball was disgusting to watch made slight improvement with Jolley.

Signing players in League 2 seems to have been harder than the National League are we prepared to pay wages required for League 2 players.

Nolan was offered a 3 year deal by a league 1 club, there was never a chance he would stay.

I don’t think our failure to move forward is Hurts fault for not keeping the like of Toto, Podge, Arnold etc.. as when he left we where starting to stabilise in the league.

The blame sits with the board, Bignot and Slade, having 4 managers in 2 seasons has sent us backwards.

Newport & Tranmere are not World beaters but at times in their game yesterday I sat there and thought how far behind in footballing terms we are versus the better teams in L2 this season.

Quoted from Abdul19

Nolan was offered a 3 year deal by a league 1 club, there was never a chance he would stay.

That's not the point My question was  had we kept the promotion team plus one or two new faces could we have 'done a Tranmere'?

In short..yes we could have, but we didn't..and with the present situation at our club I fear it will be a long time before we lock horns with the likes of Lincoln, Tranmere and Luton...all teams that were in the tin pot league and have gone on to bigger and better things while we flounder...
Sorry but those who think the board aren't to blame need to look again..
Without being a statto, how many teams who since 2010 have been in the tin pot and are now leagues above us?..4, maybe 6...
We are going nowhere and getting there in a hurry, Jolley maybe thought he could this ship around but unfortunately we have the turning circle of the Titanic and I fear the club will share the same fate and sink under the current regime...

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

In short..yes we could have, but we didn't..and with the present situation at our club I fear it will be a long time before we lock horns with the likes of Lincoln, Tranmere and Luton...all teams that were in the tin pot league and have gone on to bigger and better things while we flounder...
Sorry but those who think the board aren't to blame need to look again..
Without being a statto, how many teams who since 2010 have been in the tin pot and are now leagues above us?..4, maybe 6...
We are going nowhere and getting there in a hurry, Jolley maybe thought he could this ship around but unfortunately we have the turning circle of the Titanic and I fear the club will share the same fate and sink under the current regime...

nope, Hurst only belived in 2 or 3 of that squad.  There was no chance that it was going to be kept together

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

In short..yes we could have, but we didn't..and with the present situation at our club I fear it will be a long time before we lock horns with the likes of Lincoln, Tranmere and Luton...all teams that were in the tin pot league and have gone on to bigger and better things while we flounder...
Sorry but those who think the board aren't to blame need to look again..
Without being a statto, how many teams who since 2010 have been in the tin pot and are now leagues above us?..4, maybe 6...
We are going nowhere and getting there in a hurry, Jolley maybe thought he could this ship around but unfortunately we have the turning circle of the Titanic and I fear the club will share the same fate and sink under the current regime...

nope, Hurst only belived in 2 or 3 of that squad.  There was no chance that it was going to be kept together

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Newport & Tranmere are not World beaters but at times in their game yesterday I sat there and thought how far behind in footballing terms we are versus the better teams in L2 this season.

We thrashed both Newport and Tranmere this year.

Just saying......

My immediate concern is not doing a Yeovil.

I’m just looking at the League 2 line up for next season now it’s been finalised, and I cannot see many (any?) worse teams than us. It is a very strong league...

Quoted from marinerdazza

My immediate concern is not doing a Yeovil.

I’m just looking at the League 2 line up for next season now it’s been finalised, and I cannot see many (any?) worse teams than us. It is a very strong league...

Same

Quoted from marinerdazza

My immediate concern is not doing a Yeovil.

I’m just looking at the League 2 line up for next season now it’s been finalised, and I cannot see many (any?) worse teams than us. It is a very strong league...

Frighteningly so, bottom six I fear, so long as there are two worse than us  

We had Bogle. He was a machine but we weren't likely to keep him at 23, with his physique and potentIal to go on. But we had Amond, the fans loved him, adored him. He scored 36 goals for us but we messed him around with his contract. Lied and took his offer away. He was conned, our fans were devastated to lose him. The upper echolons at BP suggested he didn't score many against top six sides in the national league. A wantaway Hurst who certainly had eyes on a move didn't want him as he wanted to play 4-3-3. Amond, I'd agree wouldn't fit in there. Why did Hurst want away? And a sideways move at best.

Nolan? He'd sorted his head out after wasting years levels below his ability. No problem there, he shouldn't be playing league two. Toto? Not bothered when he went though he's much better than anything we have now he's matured and cut out so many mistakes. We had so much momentum, losing Amond killed it more than anything.

The fans worshipped Padraig, a disinterested and uncommitted Hurst allowed him to go although I suspect earlier lies about his contract helped Amond's decision. That said, I heard pretty much the second he signed for us in the fifth tier, he was looking for a move. We didn't capitalise on promotion, we still have the same problems, the same reason we became a poorly club that couldn't even finish 90th of 92 clubs and I fear we could well return to the Dog and Duck, and more 5-0's at Braintree.

Quoted from Ipswin

Frighteningly so, bottom six I fear, so long as there are two worse than us  

Makes you wonder what will happen regarding Mr Fenty if he takes us back into the tinpot for a second time???

Quoted from promotion plaice

Makes you wonder what will happen regarding Mr Fenty if he takes us back into the tinpot for a second time???

Nothing. It’ll be our fault.

Quoted from marinerdazza

My immediate concern is not doing a Yeovil.

I’m just looking at the League 2 line up for next season now it’s been finalised, and I cannot see many (any?) worse teams than us. It is a very strong league...

I sort of know what you mean, but we haven't assembled a team yet and neither has anyone else.
Is there really any reason to feel, at this point, that we will be a poorer team than Stevenage, or Crawley, or Cheltenham, Cambridge, Port Vale, Crewe, Macclesfield......?

Quoted from fishboyUTM

We had Bogle. He was a machine but we weren't likely to keep him at 23, with his physique and potentIal to go on. But we had Amond, the fans loved him, adored him. He scored 36 goals for us but we messed him around with his contract. Lied and took his offer away. He was conned, our fans were devastated to lose him. The upper echolons at BP suggested he didn't score many against top six sides in the national league. A wantaway Hurst who certainly had eyes on a move didn't want him as he wanted to play 4-3-3. Amond, I'd agree wouldn't fit in there. Why did Hurst want away? And a sideways move at best.

Nolan? He'd sorted his head out after wasting years levels below his ability. No problem there, he shouldn't be playing league two. Toto? Not bothered when he went though he's much better than anything we have now he's matured and cut out so many mistakes. We had so much momentum, losing Amond killed it more than anything.

The fans worshipped Padraig, a disinterested and uncommitted Hurst allowed him to go although I suspect earlier lies about his contract helped Amond's decision. That said, I heard pretty much the second he signed for us in the fifth tier, he was looking for a move. We didn't capitalise on promotion, we still have the same problems, the same reason we became a poorly club that couldn't even finish 90th of 92 clubs and I fear we could well return to the Dog and Duck, and more 5-0's at Braintree.

Check out an interview with Podge from earlier this year where he is very complimentary about Hurst and Doig and says he keeps in touch with PH etc... etc...

I’d suggest Podge leaving was more about his agent and the club not backing the manager.

If you recall Podge said “I just left it to my agent” well if Hartlepool offered the player more and the agent a bigger “introduction fee” (aka bung) that tells us everything.

Quoted from chaos33

I sort of know what you mean, but we haven't assembled a team yet and neither has anyone else.
Is there really any reason to feel, at this point, that we will be a poorer team than Stevenage, or Crawley, or Cheltenham, Cambridge, Port Vale, Crewe, Macclesfield......?

I’m usually quite positive. But if we’re as complacent as we have been in previous seasons then yes there’s every reason to think we’ll be poorer. And by we, I mean the board. There’s nothing wrong with a bit of realism and I’d rather try and point it out now whilst something can be done about it, than afterwards when we’re knackered again. We’ve not got the best record of learning from past mistakes.

Quoted from Ipswin

That's not the point My question was  had we kept the promotion team plus one or two new faces could we have 'done a Tranmere'?

That side only strung a run of results together when Townsend was on loan, so I'll go with no, unless by some miracle he was one of the new faces.

Could we have 'done a Tranmere' ?

Our boardrooms ambition was to survive the drop, so it's a tale of ambition and with that ambition, budget.

You could argue that the budget does not always guarantee winning but it is key to bringing in quality. Also leadership is key as to quote Alexander the great I'm not afraid of an army of Lions led by a sheep, I am afraid of an army of sheep led by Lion.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Makes you wonder what will happen regarding Mr Fenty if he takes us back into the tinpot for a second time???

The same as is happening now I suspect only a bit worse. Abuse, Fenty must go, it's all his fault etc etc

I wonder what will happen to Jolley if he takes us back to tinpot?

Quoted from Ipswin

The same as is happening now I suspect only a bit worse. Abuse, Fenty must go, it's all his fault etc etc

I wonder what will happen to Jolley if he takes us back to tinpot?

To be honest, I'm hoping that if we look at anytime that Tin pot is looming the board act before it's too late and replace Jolley..
But, I am really living in the hope Jolley can find those cheap(free) gems and prove he has the ability to put a squad together on a shoe string that can comfortably compete in the EFL...

If Hurst had stayed with Podge and Toto we might have done.

If amond had stayed we’d be on our way to Madrid playing the mighty Liverpool, he had a brilliant game the other day at Wembley mind, wasn’t in Monthe’s pocket at all, took only 78 minutes to have his first shot on goal, FFS Hurst.

Quoted from marinerdazza

My immediate concern is not doing a Yeovil.

I’m just looking at the League 2 line up for next season now it’s been finalised, and I cannot see many (any?) worse teams than us. It is a very strong league...

Well let's hope there are 2 worst, and hopefully one if them is scunny.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Well let's hope there are 2 worst, and hopefully one if them is scunny.

Thats one thing that I don't think will happen

Quoted from Ipswin

The same as is happening now I suspect only a bit worse. Abuse, Fenty must go, it's all his fault etc etc

I wonder what will happen to Jolley if he takes us back to tinpot?

Jolley won't take us to the tinpot...he would be sacked as soon as it looked inevitable......
back to the original post.....as much as i disliked Hurst's approach at times in the non league i thought it would be very suited to League 2...to get out of the non league you generally have to be the top scoring side winning most of your games....not something Hurst was comfortable with...he had a dont lose mindset, which with only one automatic spot just wont cut it.
In League Two with more promotion places and play off places up for grabs not losing games keeps you up and around the play offs which i thought Hurst would have been succesful at.....regardless of the team he assembled/disassembled he would have had a team that was hard to beat which gives half a chance.

Quoted from moosey_club

Jolley won't take us to the tinpot...he would be sacked as soon as it looked inevitable......
back to the original post.....as much as i disliked Hurst's approach at times in the non league i thought it would be very suited to League 2...to get out of the non league you generally have to be the top scoring side winning most of your games....not something Hurst was comfortable with...he had a dont lose mindset, which with only one automatic spot just wont cut it.
In League Two with more promotion places and play off places up for grabs not losing games keeps you up and around the play offs which i thought Hurst would have been succesful at.....regardless of the team he assembled/disassembled he would have had a team that was hard to beat which gives half a chance.

Very true about Hurst, Moosey. I don't share the optimism about Jolley getting the push in time though. He may just win enough games for us to stay in with a chance and while that is happening JF will not sack him. The way things are shaping up though, I have to say I feel the least confident I have ever felt going into the close season.

I dont think most Town fan`s appreciate just how poor league 2 has been since our Promotion especially that first year . Had we on the back of 3k ST sales backed the Manager with some funds we would in my opinion have made the Play Offs ? That`s only an opinion and I base it on the turmoil we had after and just before PH left plus Bignut downing tools on the Play Off places with games to go . The departure of Bogle largely ended our goal threat and we haven`t recovered since but that`s hardly a surprise league 2 doesnt have many players like that. Again Tranmere have that type of striker and that`s what has got them up in this league you need a strong team/squad or a goalscorer and if you have both better still. The team that beat FGR at Wembley was a decent side at league 2 level and needed 3-4 bringing in 2 of those to replace Toto and Nolan who had left. Everyone else could and should have been retained but the wages offered were sh1t and we lost more players and our management team.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

I dont think most Town fan`s appreciate just how poor league 2 has been since our Promotion especially that first year . Had we on the back of 3k ST sales backed the Manager with some funds we would in my opinion have made the Play Offs ? That`s only an opinion and I base it on the turmoil we had after and just before PH left plus Bignut downing tools on the Play Off places with games to go . The departure of Bogle largely ended our goal threat and we haven`t recovered since but that`s hardly a surprise league 2 doesnt have many players like that. Again Tranmere have that type of striker and that`s what has got them up in this league you need a strong team/squad or a goalscorer and if you have both better still. The team that beat FGR at Wembley was a decent side at league 2 level and needed 3-4 bringing in 2 of those to replace Toto and Nolan who had left. Everyone else could and should have been retained but the wages offered were sh1t and we lost more players and our management team.

I'm sure I heard or read though that we had a competitive budget?  

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

I'm sure I heard or read though that we had a competitive budget?  

Competitive vs who?

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Competitive vs who?

There's the Catch 22 mate.... who decides what is competitive and what is not competitive.

We are just fed this line and there is no way of proving it or otherwise

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

There's the Catch 22 mate.... who decides what is competitive and what is not competitive.

We are just fed this line and there is no way of proving it or otherwise

I was told by a good mate  who was friends with one of our players why he was leaving at that time . The rumour went round on here and it was spot on he was offered £50 a week more to sign a new deal left and got higher wages in the national league. That Club at that time had an average gate 1500 lower than ours  

Quoted from 1mickylyons

I was told by a good mate  who was friends with one of our players why he was leaving at that time . The rumour went round on here and it was spot on he was offered £50 a week more to sign a new deal left and got higher wages in the national league. That Club at that time had an average gate 1500 lower than ours  

If this is the same player who scored our goal on the last day of our first season back in the league (16-17) then I've pretty much heard the same kind of thing... just who are we being competitive with I'd like to know  

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

If this is the same player who scored our goal on the last day of our first season back in the league (16-17) then I've pretty much heard the same kind of thing... just who are we being competitive with I'd like to know  

Our budget should surely see us challenging for the Play Offs/top half  based on gates alone . However in real terms and I could be miles off we seem happy to compete with Morecambe,Macc etc for the 3rd from bottom slot.