Whitmore and RHJ gone

According to Tondeur.

2 of the better defenders out of the 5 senior players that were left.  

Not bothered, RHJ was decent but had no engine. Whitmore easily replaceable.

Quoted from monkeyboy

Not bothered, RHJ was decent but had no engine. Whitmore easily replaceable.

Really??...you obviously didn't watch the same RHJ as me towards the end of season, he was up and down the wing and certainly proved himself more than useful... Whitmore probably knew he'd not be getting much time as Ohman was always filling that position.  
Be interesting to see who's managed to sign them, as they won't have left without other deals on the table

Does anyone know the reasons given for their departure?

We're either going to have an influx of defenders or he's getting rid of the 3 at the back. You need at least 5 centre backs in the squad to play 3-5-2 and we've now got 3 central defenders one of them being Pollock.

Think i heard Rhj may want a return to e.Anglia or that Cambridge want him. A better athlete than a footballer imho whilst I can't say I'm bothered about Whitmore going.am sure we can replace both with better

Well this would surprise me. Both still relatively young and showed a lot of potential - RHJ especially.

I’m not bothered.

The team was rubbish for the most part of the season and we finished where we deserved to finish. Some of that is Jolley’s fault but most of it is because the players we had are mostly rubbish.

RHJ didn’t look like he was enjoying his football at GTFC to me. I actually thought against Crewe last game of the season he looked like he didn’t want to be there.........

Dissapointed to see Reece go, really liked him

Disappointed to see em both go.

Salford mark my words would not be surprised at all

Quoted from OllieGTFC

Salford mark my words would not be surprised at all

Or indeed any clubs in League 2 or the Conference.

I think this is probably the players choice for whatever reason, maybe Whitmore thinks he’s not played enough or RHJ wants to move closer home, I don’t know. I think the club might’ve wanted both to stay as they’re not bad players and sometimes it’s easier to keep players rather than replace them like for like.

Realistically though both were pretty much squad players who we hoped would develop. RHJ is a decent utility player who could probably do a job anywhere, but will he replace Hendrie permanently in his favoured RB role? No. Whitmore is a player who I’ve heard people say “does a job”, but is he better than Davis or Öhman? Not for me.

So all in all, if it’s true then good luck to both, but hardly a huge blow is it?

Glad Whitmore has gone, looked below the standard regularly. Surprised about RHJ very versatile and often our best centre half in a 352.

Very disappointed that either have gone. What's that now -6 gone 0 in-looking very exciting at the moment I must say.  Must be big signings in the pipeline and he is just clearing room for them

Not sure what to think. Whitmore is average I'd say and probably a conference standard centre back in clinical terms so can't be too disappointed but I would probably have kept RHJ. I hope this means that we are looking at a general upgrade in standards in all positions, which is a positive. The standouts for me, on that basis, are Cardwell and Ring, neither of whom are good enough IMO.

Quoted from chaos33

Not sure what to think. Whitmore is average I'd say and probably a conference standard centre back in clinical terms so can't be too disappointed but I would probably have kept RHJ. I hope this means that we are looking at a general upgrade in standards in all positions, which is a positive. The standouts for me, on that basis, are Cardwell and Ring, neither of whom are good enough IMO.

Who says we didn't offer RHJ a contract? You make it sound like MJ has let him go...

Right well enlighten us then if you know more....

Fine if we can get someone better. Until we know who the replacements are then we have to back the management team's judgement.

Quoted from chaos33

Right well enlighten us then if you know more....

I don't?

A statement has just been released which doesn't make it any clearer.

Harry Davis option been taken up by the club. Potential club captain?

I'm a little shocked to be honest. Personally, I thought RHJ had the right physical attributes that we need, never looked that accomplished with the ball at his feet but could develop into a useful player. I may be in a minority but apart from two games Whitmore impressed me. Strongest defender we had, very aggressive, never bullied and our best defensive partnership all season was him and Davis. Be interesting to find out whether they left or weren't offered contracts. Apart from left back I thought we had the makings of a settled defence that could gel into something more solid next season. Let's not forget that Collins played thirty league games last season, so it has been very hard to assess the potential of centre-half pairings or trios. Up to now I think Ohman is excellent in the air but a little slow and suspect on the ground. Looks like it's going to be another summer overhaul rather than a few additions. If they've not been offered contracts and let go and we've retained the likes of Cardwell and Ring (fingers crossed he comes out of pre-season a better player), I'll be more than a little bemused..

Both Davis and Whitmore had options on contracts to sign, and MJ obviously prefers Davis, which I agree with.

Can see Whitmore at somewhere like Notts County next season

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

Both Davis and Whitmore had options on contracts to sign, and MJ obviously prefers Davis, which I agree with.

Can see Whitmore at somewhere like Notts County next season

Very close call between Davis and Whitmore for me. Could have gone either way and I’m not convinced that Ohman is better than either.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Very close call between Davis and Whitmore for me. Could have gone either way and I’m not convinced that Ohman is better than either.

Really? I'm more than convinced that he is

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

Really? I'm more than convinced that he is

Really? Our best run of the season was when Davis and Whitmore were centre backs then Davis got concussion and the following game Whitmore was sent off.

Ohman and Davis would always be ahead of Whitmore for me and RHJ would always be behind Hendrie so so would rather us sign better players that could potentially walk into the first team 11. With that in mind am not too disappointed and this gives Jolley more budget for new players.

At right back would like to see us try and sign Jack Grimmer, just been released from league one Coventry. When they were promoted he was in the league 2 team of year. Good defender and surprised he was released.

Rhj says that it was his decision to leave but he hasn't got anywhere lined up at present

I think Whitmore has looked decent enough most of the time (or as decent as any of the players in what was an ever-changing defence last season). However, there isn't really room for more than one 'stopper' in a team these days and Ohman is obviously first choice for that role. Davis is more mobile and better with the ball at his feet and had some good spells so is probably a better fit if we're going to be playing three at the back as seems pretty certain. Wouldn't surprise me to see us play against Whitmore next season.

As for RHJ, it's a surprise he's gone but I'm not convinced he's good enough in any role with three at the back. Perhaps a move down south to a League 2 or Conference club for him?

RHJ showed how good he could be against Palace in the cup. However if he wants away then so be it. Trick is to find a replacement that is better than him, as is the case with every player.

Our defensive record last season is hardly a reason to keep any of our defence . From what I saw I thought Whitmore was just a lumbering conference player . RHJ looked like he could’ve been a good player but never nailed down a place in 2 years . Says it all really.

Whitmore was nothing special at this level, and of course was part of that dismal Chesterfield side that went down.  I thought RHJ had potential, and was worth keeping, but it looks like it was his decision to move on so not a lot we can do about it.

With these seven departures (including Welsh) the ball really is in Jolley's court now.

I think this transfer window will make of break him as a manager. Given the rollercoaster of form last year I think the jury is still out on whether he has what it takes to bring success to the club.  

I think this means we'll be playing 4 at the back now. Realistically, the only starting position RHJ was going to get was right centre back in a back 5 anyway, and he probably knew that. Whitmore was solid, but replaceable. I'd only expect to see one more centre back now with pollock now on a pro contract.

Overall I think we'll see a lot of faith placed in the youth players who have come through. Trusting them means we need less signings, but more wages for those signings. At least I hope so, it would be nice to see quality of quantity for once.

You'd imagine that with all the current players and their contracts/releases sorted we might hear some news soon? One would presume that after the news of those two going yesterday - something that many will see as 'bad news' (especially in regard to RHJ), that the club will want to counteract the 'bad news' with some good news, wouldn't be surprised to hear about a new signing before the end of the week....
Indeed Jolley did say last week that they were well down the line in talks with several players, and that we're not going to be signing 3-4 next week. You'd think if there was no chance of anyone coming he would have just said, we're not going to be seeing anyone coming in just yet. 3-4 doesn't rule out 1-2...

RHJ was outstanding, in my opinion, when deployed on the right of a back three.  Not only did his pace and ability to get in front of the man give us something extra as opposed to the traditional 6'2 just-head-it types at this level, but he gave us a real threat when overlapping down the right flank.

At the very worst he was good cover across all defensive positions.  Disappointed he's gone but seeing as he's said he's decided to leave, it looks very much like we offered him a deal and he wants to try something new.  Big loss in my opinion.  

Whitmore - Less bothered about.  Always thought it would be one or the other when it came to him and Davis. Both bog standard at this level.  If you look at Whitmore's record in recent seasons it isn't encouraging either.
16/17 - Spent most of the season at Morecambe - survived by six points
17/18 - Second half of the season at Chesterfield - Relagated
18/19 - Full season with Town....

Whoever goes or comes in, the very first thing to ascertain is whether they actually want to move to this part of the country, or if they travel are absolutely sure it is for them.

I hope we tell them to forget about stereotypes, and find them rented accommodation in Scartho, Waltham, or any of the lovely villages around.

To have any hope of success with out limited budget we will have to have a close knit squad, who actually want to be here.

Quoted from diehardmariner

RHJ was outstanding, in my opinion, when deployed on the right of a back three.  Not only did his pace and ability to get in front of the man give us something extra as opposed to the traditional 6'2 just-head-it types at this level, but he gave us a real threat when overlapping down the right flank.

He certainly was very strong in the challenge and this often worked out in his favour as he won the ball back when tackled as he charged forward. However, I personally don't think his passing/distribution was nearly up to the task. If we really are going to try to become a passing team, I think we need to worry less about central defenders charging forward and more about getting the ball to the midfield and forwards quickly and accurately.

It will be interesting to see where he ends up, that's for sure. There wasn't something quite right about his body language this season but I assumed this was just because he was knackered due to trying to get his fitness back after injury. If he really was wanting to move a bit further south, then that might explain it to some degree.

Quoted from Maringer

He certainly was very strong in the challenge and this often worked out in his favour as he won the ball back when tackled as he charged forward. However, I personally don't think his passing/distribution was nearly up to the task. If we really are going to try to become a passing team, I think we need to worry less about central defenders charging forward and more about getting the ball to the midfield and forwards quickly and accurately.

It will be interesting to see where he ends up, that's for sure. There wasn't something quite right about his body language this season but I assumed this was just because he was knackered due to trying to get his fitness back after injury. If he really was wanting to move a bit further south, then that might explain it to some degree.

Interesting you say that.  I agree about the passing quickly and accurately but the the four automatically promoted sides from the two tiers above us all had defenders who pushed forward and caused problems, be it from wide areas or centrally.  Sheffield United were the masters of this all season and always had centre-backs overlapping.

I know there's a gulf of difference between the leagues but I would have thought that the benefit from the stretching the play would equal or even outweigh any benefit may gain from better passing, especially with the lesser technical players - probably easier to train players to be fitter/faster than it is to be technically better.

Quoted from Madeleymariner

2 of the better defenders out of the 5 senior players that were left.  

The only reason I can see for MJ allowing these two to leave is that he has better in his sights.

If we cant get in better than whats left us we really are doomed  

Quoted from rancido

The only reason I can see for MJ allowing these two to leave is that he has better in his sights.

RHJ chose to leave, I'm guessing Whitmore's the same.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Surprised about RHJ very versatile and often our best centre half in a 352.

Surprised? You think RHJ leaving was the club's decision?

Quoted from Abdul19

RHJ chose to leave, I'm guessing Whitmore's the same.

It sounds to me like MJ knew it needs improving, and decided to keep Davis and replace Whitmore and Collins with just 1 player, with Pollock now becoming a pro, all makes perfect sense to me.

RHJ I think you are right, judging by his message, he want's to go down south, good player, who give 100% every time, so no bad words towards him at all

Quoted from rancido

The only reason I can see for MJ allowing these two to leave is that he has better in his sights.

He probably didn't have a choice in the matter. He can't hold people hostage at the club that want to go elsewhere for a better offer.

My palace supporting in laws claim RHJ is signing for them

Quoted from rancido

The only reason I can see for MJ allowing these two to leave is that he has better in his sights.

RHJ chose to leave as he's out of contract - guessing he's got a better offer from a club down south and our offer fell short.

My guess would be the deals offered were not the greatest, Whitmore probably offered a crap deal as he was very replaceable.  RHJ im guessing was probably offered an ok ish deal but had other factors like location.

Both are replaceable. in my mind though the real problem is in midfield and not the defence, oposition seemed bypass the mid and theyy were not creative enough.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

RHJ chose to leave as he's out of contract - guessing he's got a better offer from a club down south and our offer fell short.

he hasn't got anywhere to go yet

Quoted from diehardmariner

Interesting you say that.  I agree about the passing quickly and accurately but the the four automatically promoted sides from the two tiers above us all had defenders who pushed forward and caused problems, be it from wide areas or centrally.  Sheffield United were the masters of this all season and always had centre-backs overlapping.

I'd imagine that their defenders were pretty decent with the ball at their feet as well as pushing forward well. At our level, you'll probably only get one or the other in general. There is usually a reason why players are appearing at a particular level and it isn't too common to unearth one who should be playing higher.

I'd personally prefer to have a solid defender who can pass it quickly and effectively to the (hopefully) more creative players further upfield. Not a problem with them pushing forward when possible (Pearson used to surge forward quite well at times, for example), but I think you will probably lose more opportunities because of slow and inaccurate passing than from not having a defender further upfield.

I do think that the difference in quality between the 3rd and 4th tier seems to be a lot bigger than it was in the past. Makes sense if you assume that the better British players displaced by foreigners in the PL (and increasingly the Championship) will be working their way down the divisions. Unfortunately, not enough good players around to make parity between L1/L2!

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

My palace supporting in laws claim RHJ is signing for them

Might be a load of bollucks but why it deserves red-crosses I dunno. Maybe there's some Brighton fans lurking.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

My palace supporting in laws claim RHJ is signing for them

Colchester.

Quoted from friskneymariner

Colchester.

He surely knows who his in-laws support.  

RHJ was signed by Slade and then sent immediately on loan to Chester....brought back and played sporadically inbetween injuries....if that is his last 2 seasons then no wonder he maybe fancies a change nearer to his "home".

Shame as i liked the look of him and seemed like one of the players who had the adaptability Jolley is maybe looking for in his defensive systems.

All the best RHJ.

RHJ gave his all and was versatile but simply not good enough with the ball at his feet in terms of crossing or passing to make it worthwhile playing a central back 3 in order to shoehorm him into the starting 11. Good enough as backup full back and general cover for a promotion chasing side but thats about it. Not a starter.
Definitely wish him the best tho and he is young enough to be getting better

Quoted from Abdul19

RHJ chose to leave, I'm guessing Whitmore's the same.

But if he really wanted them then you would have thought they would have been given some kind of incentive to stay ie an improved contract. I'm sure that MJ would have planned for this and have some kind of contingency option in mind.

No big losses for me. Not bothered about either.

Whitmore was a "head it, kick it" defender who'd put his body in front of anything and throw his head into aerial challenges. But I didn't think there was ever any thought or direction on where he was actually heading the ball. Can do better.

Hall-Johnson is a funny one because he was a key part of our 3-5-2 system actually being effective and working. When playing as one of the 3 centre-backs that is, not as a wing-back. Has never really been trusted with a proper run of games I don't think, and never seems to last 90 minutes either. I actually think his physical attributes make him seem a much better footballer than he actually is. And if he didn't cover ground as well as he does, we wouldn't think much of him. Technically very limited I think, poor passer of the ball, not much game intelligence and despite one or two good games as an overlapping centre-back, poor end product in the final third. Again, can do better.

Quoted from Tommy

No big losses for me. Not bothered about either.

Whitmore was a "head it, kick it" defender who'd put his body in front of anything and throw his head into aerial challenges. But I didn't think there was ever any thought or direction on where he was actually heading the ball. Can do better.

Hall-Johnson is a funny one because he was a key part of our 3-5-2 system actually being effective and working. When playing as one of the 3 centre-backs that is, not as a wing-back. Has never really been trusted with a proper run of games I don't think, and never seems to last 90 minutes either. I actually think his physical attributes make him seem a much better footballer than he actually is. And if he didn't cover ground as well as he does, we wouldn't think much of him. Technically very limited I think, poor passer of the ball, not much game intelligence and despite one or two good games as an overlapping centre-back, poor end product in the final third. Again, can do better.

can't disagree with any of that Tommy.

Quoted from Tommy

No big losses for me. Not bothered about either.

Whitmore was a "head it, kick it" defender who'd put his body in front of anything and throw his head into aerial challenges. But I didn't think there was ever any thought or direction on where he was actually heading the ball. Can do better.

Hall-Johnson is a funny one because he was a key part of our 3-5-2 system actually being effective and working. When playing as one of the 3 centre-backs that is, not as a wing-back. Has never really been trusted with a proper run of games I don't think, and never seems to last 90 minutes either. I actually think his physical attributes make him seem a much better footballer than he actually is. And if he didn't cover ground as well as he does, we wouldn't think much of him. Technically very limited I think, poor passer of the ball, not much game intelligence and despite one or two good games as an overlapping centre-back, poor end product in the final third. Again, can do better.

A little bit harsh on both Tommy, but football's a game of opinions. One caveat is, for every "can do better" new signing, we seem to be capable of making at least one "can do worse" over the years..

Quoted from Bigdog

A little bit harsh on both Tommy, but football's a game of opinions. One caveat is, for every "can do better" new signing, we seem to be capable of making at least one "can do worse"..

D'you know what, I actually probably don't disagree that I'm being a bit harsh on both.

I don't think there would've been too many complaints amongst the fanbase if both had been retained. And like Davis, they haven't looked out of their depth or particularly poor players. Maybe it's just getting older and tired of the mediocrity we've seen for the last 20 years, that I don't want to settle for players that do "alright" and "aren't bad players" - I just want us to be more ruthless and get better.

I think in most games I saw last season, we didn't have particularly poor players (despite your thoughts on DC   ), but they were either not very effective in competitive games, or just not as good as players that most other teams had. And as much as continuity can "building" can breed some success, I just want us to be better. The key note to this is that ultimately, the budget may have the biggest impact on to what extent we are able to do this.

Quoted from Bigdog

A little bit harsh on both Tommy, but football's a game of opinions. One caveat is, for every "can do better" new signing, we seem to be capable of making at least one "can do worse"..

think that's a little unfair on jolley.
this was his first line up (3-5-2)    
McKeown, Collins and Clifton were all regulars this season. Ben davies, clarke and suliman  not as good as hendrie, davies and rhj. Fox and ring, probably fox but probably fair to say that the jury's out. Berrett and Rose not as good as Hess and Embleton. Matt & Dembele up front. Difficult to say on this one as Matt didn't pull up any trees but has gone on to much better things; as has Dembele , although by this stage Dembele wasn't interested and was completely ineffectual. Whatever you say about Thomas he scored goals, generally worked hard and had  a bit of class. Dennis, Cardwell and Cook have all been as ineffectual as Matt was on so many occasions

Quoted from forza ivano

think that's a little unfair on jolley.
this was his first line up (3-5-2)    
McKeown, Collins and Clifton were all regulars this season. Ben davies, clarke and suliman  not as good as hendrie, davies and rhj. Fox and ring, probably fox but probably fair to say that the jury's out. Berrett and Rose not as good as Hess and Embleton. Matt & Dembele up front. Difficult to say on this one as Matt didn't pull up any trees but has gone on to much better things; as has Dembele , although by this stage Dembele wasn't interested and was completely ineffectual. Whatever you say about Thomas he scored goals, generally worked hard and had  a bit of class. Dennis, Cardwell and Cook have all been as ineffectual as Matt was on so many occasions

Cardwell was a slade signing anyway

I think jolleys done pretty well transfer wise generally, and I'd say he gave a fair crack in the team to everyone in the squad at different times in the season.

Quoted from forza ivano

think that's a little unfair on jolley.
this was his first line up (3-5-2)    
McKeown, Collins and Clifton were all regulars this season. Ben davies, clarke and suliman  not as good as hendrie, davies and rhj. Fox and ring, probably fox but probably fair to say that the jury's out. Berrett and Rose not as good as Hess and Embleton. Matt & Dembele up front. Difficult to say on this one as Matt didn't pull up any trees but has gone on to much better things; as has Dembele , although by this stage Dembele wasn't interested and was completely ineffectual. Whatever you say about Thomas he scored goals, generally worked hard and had  a bit of class. Dennis, Cardwell and Cook have all been as ineffectual as Matt was on so many occasions

I can’t remember Ben Davis, Clarke & Sullivan playing in a three but I kinda get what you’re saying.

What the concern is that in the last few seasons we’ve had to do a big rebuild, going into next term I thought it would be different but for whatever reason it’s not.