GTFC as a fan-owned club?

Would you like to see GTFC as a self-sustainable, fan-owned club? Add comments for and against below...

If the Trust is anything to go by (and they don't  have any responsibility for running the club) fan control would be a total disaster

Yes i would. It can be done successfully.

https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2017/june/five-years-of-fan-owned-football/

Quoted from Ipswin

If the Trust is anything to go by (and they don't  have any responsibility for running the club) fan control would be a total disaster

Given more responsibility for actually running the club, they may well just surprise you.

Quoted from Ipswin

If the Trust is anything to go by (and they don't  have any responsibility for running the club) fan control would be a total disaster

I had great belief in the Trust up until recently personally can you explain what you mean by total disaster Swin as opposed to what? The last 15 years have been pish poor I would be vexed if you and I couldn`t at least better those results on and off the pitch at a Club with a 4k average gate.

I would like to yes but with no involvement from the Trust in its current form. It would need to be led by a new supporter organisation.

Quoted from Ipswin

If the Trust is anything to go by (and they don't  have any responsibility for running the club) fan control would be a total disaster

Do keep up Swin. I'm on record as saying although I'm definitely not opposed to fan ownership I do not feel that I have the skills required (nor the physical well-being) to be actively involved in running a professional football club. I believe all my fellow Trust Board members feel the same but we ALL see a role if it comes to pass in doing everything we can to ensure a smooth transition. Time for others to step up to the mark I feel.

An article here about when Wycombe became fan owned in 2012.

https://www.theguardian.com/so.....ootball-club-wycombe

Here is some insight into how they operate.

https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/fans/wycombe-wanderers-trust/

I think it's do-able for sure, but as Barra has pointed out, there needs to be a fresh influx of people to do it. I'd be more than willing to volunteer my time for tasks that involve the skill set that i have, namely hands on stuff and maintenance, and my brother would too. As they say in that article, there could me more fan owned clubs in the future. For me, it's the way to go for clubs such as ourselves.

I would say a resounding yes.

Whether that is full ownership is probably not my preferred choice, but a much enhanced role IS the way forward provided JSF steps aside either by selling/gifting or simply standing down from the board.

People say it would be a disaster. I dont think it would be, just need full supporter involvement together with proper financial controls. It would not be any worse

No chance


Fans cant agree on here nevermind running a club.


No we need David Ross to come in and use all his wealth getting the club in order even if it bankrupts him.

Not for me, we need a change of direction but not supporter ran. It would be an absolute disaster. We’d have about 20 managers a season  

I don't see much difference provide the fan(s) on the board come with fresh ideas and drive.

whatever we may think of Messrs Fenty, Day, Marley et al they are all essentially fans who are trying to run a football club as they see fit. I actually feel there are other ways although a tight financial ship is a must the other is actually getting the supporters to back it.

can it be done? I think it could with the right leadership.

But where would any investment come from unless you expect wealthy supporters to donate to the club? I constantly hear on this site that JF needs to "dip into his pocket" to invest in the club - speculate to accumulate is a constant mantra on here. If you don't have a person like JF but just the fans then who backs the club? I'm not saying it can't be done but it would need to be fully explained to me if I was to support it as the way forward.

A benign dictatorship is the best form of government. We'd have years of infighting if we went down the other route.

At the moment i dont have the confidence in fans being able to run the club.  You need to dedicate alot of time and running a football club takes a bit more than a few hrs chairing a meeting.  

Would it make a blind bit of difference? The day to day decisions will be made by them in the office anyway.

Quoted from Meza

At the moment i dont have the confidence in fans being able to run the club.  You need to dedicate alot of time and running a football club takes a bit more than a few hrs chairing a meeting.  

Depends who the fans are surely? There are lot of people around with years of experience in businesses, finance, marketing who MAY be prepared to help. I wouldnt have thought that someone working behind the counter at MacDonalds would be a prime candidate. For me it would be a prerequisite that a considerable amount of time would have to be given up

I thought it was already owned and run by a fan

My only doubts are the trust gifting Fenty all MP shares which was a crazy decision.
The trust in its current form would need overhauling, but as a club we would thrive.

Quoted from Yoda

My only doubts are the trust gifting Fenty all MP shares which was a crazy decision.
The trust in its current form would need overhauling, but as a club we would thrive.

There are well documented reasons this happened and I wasn`t happy about it but could still 100% see why it happened they were in a very difficult if not nigh on impossible situation with a big ticking clock hanging over them. In my opinion they made a huge mistake with the shares BUT since then they have done some excellent work off the pitch and they were taking things forward.Sadly after OP success it`s all gone quiet over there

The people holding sway within the Trust are decent people and mostly ardent fans some with good skills which are much needed to maintain their influence. Since OP it all seems to me plenty of pussyfooting around and a damping down of any dissenters within the ranks?

The Trust are another GTFC body that needs an overhaul or they run the real risk of seeing all the previous hard work undone with existing members deserting in droves due to the lack of action.

The gauntlets been thrown down picked up lashed round the lugholes and still the response is lacking

Not for me too many pitfalls

Quoted from rancido

But where would any investment come from unless you expect wealthy supporters to donate to the club? I constantly hear on this site that JF needs to "dip into his pocket" to invest in the club - speculate to accumulate is a constant mantra on here. If you don't have a person like JF but just the fans then who backs the club? I'm not saying it can't be done but it would need to be fully explained to me if I was to support it as the way forward.

Well, if JF ain't there - that's one constant gripe gone. If we can't speculate we have to look at what alternatives exist.

The fans would have to address the issue and discuss it. Strong youth development policy, contacting a few known wealthy fans to see if they're up
for a bung our way (who may have personal  motives for wanting a post-Fenty GTFC to prosper), rob banks, become a feeder club for Barcelona, or whatever.

Doubtless some views will strike others as ridiculous (e.g. rob banks)...but here's a small thing;
Having had the opportunity to air his/her ridiculous view and hear the comeback from Town fans the reasonable person will say
"Fair enough...I had my say".
Getting outvoted should be viewed in that light....we can't afford snowflakes who sulk when they get outvoted, anyway.

There'll be an extra (?) 1500 paying customers through the gate, and the Grimsby public can be generous given a vision they can believe in.

As Ginny sensibly points out - if Wycombe can do it why can't we? A huge undertaking, of course....should we do it or die wondering?

Quoted from ginnywings

Given more responsibility for actually running the club, they may well just surprise you.

There would be a different bloke in charge every week!

Quoted from 1mickylyons

I had great belief in the Trust up until recently personally can you explain what you mean by total disaster Swin as opposed to what? The last 15 years have been pish poor I would be vexed if you and I couldn`t at least better those results on and off the pitch at a Club with a 4k average gate.

I refer the Honourable Member to my earlier reply, if the Trust had anything to do with running the club there would be a resignation and a new bloke in charge every week. The manager post would be a big problem too, at least one man right or (mainly) wrong decides that at the moment If the fans ran the club with gates of 4000 you'd get 4001 different managerial suggestions  

In contrast to the current leadership the Trust have shown they can organise things and harness the support of the fans. It works well at other clubs in our league. Why could it not happen at Town. The Trust has its issues, but they are minor compared to the shitshow that is the board.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

In contrast to the current leadership the Trust have shown they can organise things and harness the support of the fans. It works well at other clubs in our league. Why could it not happen at Town. The Trust has its issues, but they are minor compared to the shitshow that is the board.

Maybe but running the Trust and arranging the odd event is a sideshow compared to running the club

Quoted from Meza

At the moment i dont have the confidence in fans being able to run the club.  You need to dedicate alot of time and running a football club takes a bit more than a few hrs chairing a meeting.  

There are THREE people doing the job at the minute, JF, PD and SM. Are you saying that they're so super human and capable of doing more work than say a committee of ten or twelve fans on the board with a re-invigorated fanbase behind them willing to chip in with their time? The employees at the football club will still be in their jobs carrying out the day to day running of the club. A fan run club doesn't mean that all the employees at GTFC leave at the same time as the current board leaving the fans to do everything from cleaning to stewarding to ticket office to cutting the grass on the pitch.

I find it incredible that some fans can't imagine what a fan run club framework would entail.

As for the Trust.. as Barra says, it needs a fresh influx of capable people on board. And if the current Trust board members haven't got the time or inclination to take the step forward after the survey results, it's their responsibility to at least create a framework for the future for new members to take it forward and get the whole fanbase on board..

Quoted from Grumps

Not for me too many pitfalls

Better off with the pitfall we know.. eh?  

If we wanted a non-chairman we could always beg J.S.F. to apply or ask him for advice on how to run a football club

Quoted from Bigdog

There are THREE people doing the job at the minute, JF, PD and SM. Are you saying that they're so super human and capable of doing more work than say a committee of ten or twelve fans on the board with a re-invigorated fanbase behind them willing to chip in with their time? The employees at the football club will still be in their jobs carrying out the day to day running of the club. A fan run club doesn't mean that all the employees at GTFC leave at the same time as the current board leaving the fans to do everything from cleaning to stewarding to ticket office to cutting the grass on the pitch.

I find it incredible that some fans can't imagine what a fan run club framework would entail.

As for the Trust.. as Barra says, it needs a fresh influx of capable people on board. And if the current Trust board members haven't got the time or inclination to take the step forward after the survey results, it's their responsibility to at least create a framework for the future for new members to take it forward and get the whole fanbase on board..

no, what i'm saying is these 3 have all the time in the world without having to work to pay for their family's needs.  The fans\trust members probably don't have the money or the time to do it full time, and can only probably give a fraction of their time.  I'm not saying I don't want a fans led club, I just don't have the confidence, there's a different BigDog

Quoted from ginnywings

Given more responsibility for actually running the club, they may well just surprise you.

To be honest. This would be a massive decision for the club, and not one I would choose lightly given the "They may well surprise you" quote you make.

I would want 100% assurance that it could be achievable, sustainable and successful. Once i have this. I would gladly have GTFC as a Fan run Club.

It’s a no from me Clive.

Quoted from Meza

no, what i'm saying is these 3 have all the time in the world without having to work to pay for their family's needs.  The fans\trust members probably don't have the money or the time to do it full time, and can only probably give a fraction of their time.  I'm not saying I don't want a fans led club, I just don't have the confidence, there's a different BigDog

I think what people do though is think about it from their own life situation. Say, you work full time and have three kids, you'd think I'm a fan, where would I have the time to be in a position to help run a fan owned club. The question can't be related to everyone's own personal situation. That's transferring your own situation onto everyone else. Lots of people are in different stages in their life. There will be people out there that have time and far more business acumen than JF when it comes to running a football club and SM and PD aren't the only retired professionals in NE Lincs that could be willing to step up in the right circumstances.

The problem has been that JF has had such a stranglehold on the club and a history of chasing away anyone that has prepared to offer their time in the past, why would anyone want to throw their hand in in those circumstances. I know a few who have and been told their services aren't required or couldn't stomach working with such a control freak who only sees his own way.

On top of that, we've got a Trust who at present are in no fit state to offer an alternative. So where is the vehicle to sign up to if you want to help change GTFC for the better. Maybe it's symptomatic of the Grimsby area to accept their lot and be frightened of change? I don't know, but I look at the appalling record of the football club over the past fifteen years and wonder why fans are so reticent for change. Maybe they're all waiting for someone else to set up a takeover version of OP to sign up to and get behind?

Quoted from Bigdog

I think what people do though is think about it from their own life situation. Say, you work full time and have three kids, you'd think I'm a fan, where would I have the time to be in a position to help run a fan owned club. The question can't be related to everyone's own personal situation. That's transferring your own situation onto everyone else. Lots of people are in different stages in their life. There will be people out there that have time and far more business acumen than JF when it comes to running a football club and SM and PD aren't the only retired professionals in NE Lincs that could be willing to step up in the right circumstances.

The problem has been that JF has had such a stranglehold on the club and a history of chasing away anyone that has prepared to offer their time in the past, why would anyone want to throw their hand in in those circumstances. I know a few who have and been told their services aren't required or couldn't stomach working with such a control freak who only sees his own way.

On top of that, we've got a Trust who at present are in no fit state to offer an alternative. So where is the vehicle to sign up to if you want to help change GTFC for the better. Maybe it's symptomatic of the Grimsby area to accept their lot and be frightened of change? I don't know, but I look at the appalling record of the football club over the past fifteen years and wonder why fans are so reticent for change. Maybe they're all waiting for someone else to set up a takeover version of OP to sign up to and get behind?

I definately agree Bigdog, a change in leadership is needed.  Problem is we are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and i have no idea who would take the reins and how we are to pay for 2mill benign loans.

However i would quite happily pay £100 to a crowd funder and if others followed over the course of a season or two (and not a few months) we may just have enough to buy out JF.  Other than that i have no idea were we would start.

It's owned by a 'fan' at the moment and that's not working out too well

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

It's owned by a 'fan' at the moment and that's not working out too well

Maybe the question should be reworded "GTFC as a fan-trust owned club".

Ideally all of English football should be run like the Germans do it.

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22625160[/url]

That's a bit out of date but I dont think things have changed too much in Germany.

The closest model in pro team sport, or certainly one of the more high profile ones, is Leicester Tigers RUFC. The most successful club of the pro rugby era (though not recently), and the best supported. The German / Leicester model doesn't mean there cannot be significant commercial interests invested in the club just that control must remain with the members Trust. Based upon Leicester the key to success will be hired in professional management competence on the Board including a Director of  Football and a really good Chief Exec. All would cost alot and maybe why it would be a struggle to be financially viable with GTFC in a town as relatively poor as Gy and Clee. Wycombe is a mega rich area by comparision and Leicester a medium sized city with a very strong rugby heritage. And Germans are just loads better at organising and running things...

It's a yes from me. Always has been. I know the current Trust Board (or at least judging by Barra's comments) are not up for it. I can't believe that there aren't people out there who have the will and the skills to take this on. Disappointing that there aren't more people who believe it is feasible. Maybe a lot more people from Grimsby are just more passive consumers of politics, business and sport than I thought.

There are solutions to all the 'problems' people have put forward. But I suppose if enough people are content to sit back and see what happens. To an extent this reflects what happened with the Keep the Mariners Afloat campaign back in the first half of the noughts when the Tax Man was circling. Lots of people saying Fenty should stump up the money because he sold Five Star Fish for a packet. Result, bar (I think) c. £20k raised by the Trust, John Fenty stepped in to shoulder the burden.

Quoted from Grimsby2012

To be honest. This would be a massive decision for the club, and not one I would choose lightly given the "They may well surprise you" quote you make.

I would want 100% assurance that it could be achievable, sustainable and successful. Once i have this. I would gladly have GTFC as a Fan run Club.

There are no assurances that can be made. Everything is a risk but the current board are not the only people in N.E.Lincs capable of running a small football club. No wonder the club is so parochial, if the fans are anything to judge by.

I personally don't favour a fans run club as such, as I think the investment needed in the modern game would rule out progressing much above league 2, leaving us in more or less as we are now, albeit presumably the club would be much better run than at present.

I think most of us agree that JF isn't really investing in the club, he is almost a safety valve in case of a downturn in financial circumstances. Therefore, unless he has a complete U turn and agrees to make wholesale and far reaching changes to the way the club is run, including clear goals and the investment needed to reach them then Mr. Fenty isn't the answer either. He is extremely unlikely to make any necessary changes nor leave the running of the club to anyone else.

My preference would be for a consortium of business people, with the necessary cash between them and preferably a love for the Mariners to take the club on having come to an agreement with Mr. Fenty to repay a percentage of his loans over an agreed time frame. Someone of the calibre of Mike Parker and his associates would be ideal. More or less how the club was run in past decades before Fenty came on the scene.

If the club is as self sustaining as we think, with a more professional approach and the fans (who have been absolutely brilliant) completely onside then surely such a consortium could make a real go of it?

Of course, all this presupposes Fenty would be reasonable as regards his loans, and such a consortium exists, but other than that it would be my preferred option!

If Mr. Fenty won't budge, or will not take drastic action to give the club the investment it needs to progress on the field and the much needed improvements to Blundell Park, then the fans will have to take direct action to try to force his hand. A co-ordinated boycott of season tickets or some such action to show that we have had enough and hurt him in the pocket.

Having said all that,if I was in Mr.Fenty's position and had the security of a considerable fortune behind me, I would get professionals in with the remit to improve all aspects of the club and increase attendances, give the manager the budget to get the best players in (say 15 quality high earning pros from a squad of 22) and to get players that within a 3 year time frame  we could sell on like Bogle - all of which would generate enough money for him to be repaid over time so he can make the decision to leave. If he continues to try to run it like he has for the past 15 years or so he will get the same results. Sadly I won't hold my breath.  

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I personally don't favour a fans run club as such, as I think the investment needed in the modern game would rule out progressing much above league 2, leaving us in more or less as we are now, albeit presumably the club would be much better run than at present.

I think most of us agree that JF isn't really investing in the club, he is almost a safety valve in case of a downturn in financial circumstances. Therefore, unless he has a complete U turn and agrees to make wholesale and far reaching changes to the way the club is run, including clear goals and the investment needed to reach them then Mr. Fenty isn't the answer either. He is extremely unlikely to make any necessary changes nor leave the running of the club to anyone else.

My preference would be for a consortium of business people, with the necessary cash between them and preferably a love for the Mariners to take the club on having come to an agreement with Mr. Fenty to repay a percentage of his loans over an agreed time frame. Someone of the calibre of Mike Parker and his associates would be ideal. More or less how the club was run in past decades before Fenty came on the scene.

If the club is as self sustaining as we think, with a more professional approach and the fans (who have been absolutely brilliant) completely onside then surely such a consortium could make a real go of it?

Of course, all this presupposes Fenty would be reasonable as regards his loans, and such a consortium exists, but other than that it would be my preferred option!

If Mr. Fenty won't budge, or will not take drastic action to give the club the investment it needs to progress on the field and the much needed improvements to Blundell Park, then the fans will have to take direct action to try to force his hand. A co-ordinated boycott of season tickets or some such action to show that we have had enough and hurt him in the pocket.

Having said all that,if I was in Mr.Fenty's position and had the security of a considerable fortune behind me, I would get professionals in with the remit to improve all aspects of the club and increase attendances, give the manager the budget to get the best players in (say 15 quality high earning pros from a squad of 22) and to get players that within a 3 year time frame  we could sell on like Bogle - all of which would generate enough money for him to be repaid over time so he can make the decision to leave. If he continues to try to run it like he has for the past 15 years or so he will get the same results. Sadly I won't hold my breath.  

Exactly my thoughts too..

In the event of the aforementioned business consortium not coming forward, the onus is on a fan's group of some description to go out there and get the expertise or funding, as the status quo is clearly not working..

Quoted from ginnywings

There are no assurances that can be made. Everything is a risk but the current board are not the only people in N.E.Lincs capable of running a small football club. No wonder the club is so parochial, if the fans are anything to judge by.

And there lies the problem. We are a small club, one might say dying club. Blundell Park is a liability, tarnished by a bad reputation for trouble in its environs on matchdays and crap facilities. At some point the Main Stand and Osmond may get refused a Fire Cert - its all going to be more stringent after Grenfall, Fire Officers are becoming more risk averse. "Smaller" clubs have flown past us and are now "bigger" clubs in terms of attracting fans, players, coaches and managers. The list is growing almost yearly as clubs move to new stadiums or completely redevelop in situ. In doing so they have grown attendances back to the levels of the early 60s or better, started raking in the corporate dollar and providing state of the art training, conditioning and treatment facilities.

When Kevin Drinkell headed his hat trick goal v Sheff Utd in May 1980 20k fans would have laughed if you said one day clubs like Chesterfield, Rotherham, Shrewsbury, Lincoln, Doncaster, Oxford would be considered "bigger" clubs, and that's not just because we'd just had a cracking season, with big crowds, massive away followings etc, it would be about potential, we had it then, now we don't, mainly because of Blundell Park. Back in 1980 we'd look at being on a level with Blackburn, Preston, Barnsley and Reading and Swindon in the south. Maybe even considered comparable to Hull City...(save by Radio Hullberside who ranked us below Hull FC and Hull KR reserves).

So the key question for me is what ownership structure is most likely to deliver a new stadium and training facilities in the next 5 years? I don't know the answer - but we do look a particularly unattractive proposition without that prospect...

Quoted from Yoda

My only doubts are the trust gifting Fenty all MP shares which was a crazy decision.
The trust in its current form would need overhauling, but as a club we would thrive.

The "gifting" of the shares was done as the result of a democratic decision taken by a majority most politicians can only dream of, of members of the Trust.

Quoted from barralad

The "gifting" of the shares was done as the result of a democratic decision taken by a majority most politicians can only dream of, of members of the Trust.

Thatcher winning 3 general elections (albeit with a much lower % than the Fenty share gift vote) was a democratic decision too.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

It's a yes from me. Always has been. I know the current Trust Board (or at least judging by Barra's comments) are not up for it. I can't believe that there aren't people out there who have the will and the skills to take this on. Disappointing that there aren't more people who believe it is feasible. Maybe a lot more people from Grimsby are just more passive consumers of politics, business and sport than I thought.

There are solutions to all the 'problems' people have put forward. But I suppose if enough people are content to sit back and see what happens. To an extent this reflects what happened with the Keep the Mariners Afloat campaign back in the first half of the noughts when the Tax Man was circling. Lots of people saying Fenty should stump up the money because he sold Five Star Fish for a packet. Result, bar (I think) c. £20k raised by the Trust, John Fenty stepped in to shoulder the burden.

The second part of this raises a really important point. I wasn't involved in the Trust in its original set up but it's hard to argue that despite the extremely precarious position the club was in immediately post ITV/ tax bill there was a groundswell of action orientated intervention from fans. Yes the meetings were originally well attended but there was no alternative strategy backed with enough hard cash and there was an almost audible sigh of relief when JF took the reins. My fear would again be that people who could make the difference financially would sit on their hands. I doubt the financial well-being of the area is better now than it would have been back in 2003 but the club's financial situation is nowhere near as precarious as it was back then so that should give those who actively want fan ownership some hope...

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Thatcher winning 3 general elections (albeit with a much lower % than the Fenty share gift vote) was a democratic decision too.

You'd be better using Brexit as a yardstick example..

I'm for part fan owned with a business consortium.
As a long term fan i cringe at some of the posts and comments on here from some, so 100% fan owned wouldn't work as views differ to much.
I'd be happy to invest every month an amount if a good fan led group could create a change and take the club forward in a more positive way, but fans would have to back it and put their bums on seats to ensure finances ongoing to actually give us a chance of going back up the leagues.  With no sugar daddy, if we hit a run like we just have and folk turn their back on the club, we could end up in a worse state.

One thing i do feel that GTFC cannot go on with the same set up anymore or our fan base will dwindle more and season tickets will be low giving our manager an insufficient budget to be successful.

Would I like to see GTFC as fan owned?  

That's not really the right question for the moment in my opinion.  The question should be 'would I like to see GTFC run in a professional and sustainable manner?'.   If the route to achieving that is through fan ownership (either short or long term) than yes I would be happy with that.

Whichever way you look at it, this club is run poorly.  A club with our fan base and income stream, should simply not be sitting in the position we are.  The odd season here and there you can argue bad luck, the odd poor decision but from 2003/04 where we last sat in a position matched to the size of the club, we've simply underachieved.  That's 15 years of abject failure, mis-management and downright neglect.

I simply refuse to believe that with a fan base of our size we don't have the shared skill-set to make a better fist of it than the current set-up have and are doing.   Would it be perfect? No.  Would it have teething problems? Of course.  But when the current set-up can't even get the basics right, I can't really see how a fans group would do worse.  

Naturally it would need governance and structure, it would have to have an elected board who make the decisions rather than a free-for-all but as long as they are adhered to and a sensible approach is used there is no real reason why it could and would not be more successful than the present.

The argument about needing a benefactor is null and void in my opinion.    This club has never needed a benefactor, it just got caught out by not cutting its cloth accordingly in the past.

Quoted from A.l.f.

I'm for part fan owned with a business consortium.
As a long term fan i cringe at some of the posts and comments on here from some, so 100% fan owned wouldn't work as views differ to much.
I'd be happy to invest every month an amount if a good fan led group could create a change and take the club forward in a more positive way, but fans would have to back it and put their bums on seats to ensure finances ongoing to actually give us a chance of going back up the leagues.  With no sugar daddy, if we hit a run like we just have and folk turn their back on the club, we could end up in a worse state.

One thing i do feel that GTFC cannot go on with the same set up anymore or our fan base will dwindle more and season tickets will be low giving our manager an insufficient budget to be successful.

We're pulling 3,500-4,000 through the gate despite how bloody awful we are.  Even at our worst this season when fan apathy was at it's highest I don't think the home gate dropped below 3,000.  Next season will be different if Fenty stays but 2,000-2,500 season ticket holders is about the norm for us.  That's more than a lot of clubs at this level average all season, Accrington for one.  Even at our absolute lowest, we should be at the very least competitive in this division.  Shouldn't be a need for investments every month or rattling of buckets to keep the club afloat.  

Fenty goes, there's a short-term bounce and gates swell.  Income increases so you're sensible and reinvest that.  You adopt a policy where you maximise your profits and in football the best way of doing that is keeping a community feeling to the club so the next generation keeps coming through year after year after year and you make sure your customer, i.e you and me as the paying fan feel valued and appreciated
You develop your own players to sell them, which in turn helps continue the infrastructure development.  You also buy cheap, develop and sell for a profit.   Because you're developing players who are wanted by bigger clubs, there's a natural improvement on the field so you progress up the league, as a result more people come through the gates = more income.

This isn't exclusive to us as a club and it certainly isn't exclusive in the business world, you just change the product and you're describing huge multi-national organisations that make billions each year.  As your returns grow, you stretch a little bit more whilst still keeping yourself sustainable.  The point you become unsustainable you've lost control and you're gambling.  

Under Fenty we flirted with a long-term strategy for 18 months, it turned £30,000 into £700,000 in that time yet we abandoned it and went back to signing old farts on their way down the divisions.

Quoted from diehardmariner

We're pulling 3,500-4,000 through the gate despite how bloody awful we are.  Even at our worst this season when fan apathy was at it's highest I don't think the home gate dropped below 3,000.  Next season will be different if Fenty stays but 2,000-2,500 season ticket holders is about the norm for us.  That's more than a lot of clubs at this level average all season, Accrington for one.  Even at our absolute lowest, we should be at the very least competitive in this division.  Shouldn't be a need for investments every month or rattling of buckets to keep the club afloat.  

Fenty goes, there's a short-term bounce and gates swell.  Income increases so you're sensible and reinvest that.  You adopt a policy where you maximise your profits and in football the best way of doing that is keeping a community feeling to the club so the next generation keeps coming through year after year after year and you make sure your customer, i.e you and me as the paying fan feel valued and appreciated
You develop your own players to sell them, which in turn helps continue the infrastructure development.  You also buy cheap, develop and sell for a profit.   Because you're developing players who are wanted by bigger clubs, there's a natural improvement on the field so you progress up the league, as a result more people come through the gates = more income.

This isn't exclusive to us as a club and it certainly isn't exclusive in the business world, you just change the product and you're describing huge multi-national organisations that make billions each year.  As your returns grow, you stretch a little bit more whilst still keeping yourself sustainable.  The point you become unsustainable you've lost control and you're gambling.  

Under Fenty we flirted with a long-term strategy for 18 months, it turned £30,000 into £700,000 in that time yet we abandoned it and went back to signing old farts on their way down the divisions.

Town should seriously strive to have a packed BP every single home game we are talking about 6500-7000 home supporters and personally with a bit of thought and some proper marketing it should not be that difficult? At present Town have 5k regular home supporters which drops to just under 4k when things are not great so they have a good base to start from.After we beat FGR this opportunity should have been seized it wasn`t Lincoln have shown the way.GTFC need to get their backsides in gear off the field with MT involvement and Target 5k for next August the support is out there they just need to grab it,respect it and embrace it. Employees in the ticket office were quick to accuse the fans of bullying and knocking down checkatrade attendances but what innovative thinking in the last 25 years of employment in said ticket office have we seen to boost gates? Do we have anyone at GTFC who is willing to sit down with the fans and look at ticketing for next Season before this one ends with a view to boosting gates or as normal are they preparing to lick a load of envelopes in June and beg us to renew? Wake up GTFC we could easily have a go at winning a Championship for the first time since 1980. League 2 is a poor League in my opinion and never mind surviving in it we should be looking to win it outright that`s how you get the fans onside.UTM

Quoted from monkeyboy

No chance


Fans cant agree on here nevermind running a club.


No we need David Ross to come in and use all his wealth getting the club in order even if it bankrupts him.

everything gets put to a vote and majority wins, simples.
a forum site where people can vent their opinions has absolutely no reflection on whether a group of supporters could run a football club

Quoted from barralad

The "gifting" of the shares was done as the result of a democratic decision taken by a majority most politicians can only dream of, of members of the Trust.

The decision was made very shortly after the Trust was given the shares. Membership was very low and people were very scared by the terms of a vote not to hand the shares over.

It's been covered many times but surely you will agree that threats to remove funding and sell Liam Hearn did not allow any other outcome?
It was democratic in the fact that their was a vote, everything else about it stank of ruthless bullying of a small supporters trust that was no threat to anyone.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

The decision was made very shortly after the Trust was given the shares. Membership was very low and people were very scared by the terms of a vote not to hand the shares over.

It's been covered many times but surely you will agree that threats to remove funding and sell Liam Hearn did not allow any other outcome?
It was democratic in the fact that their was a vote, everything else about it stank of ruthless bullying of a small supporters trust that was no threat to anyone.

Not just me then after all .Thanks hm

Quoted from diehardmariner

Fenty goes, there's a short-term bounce and gates swell.  Income increases so you're sensible and reinvest that.  You adopt a policy where you maximise your profits and in football the best way of doing that is keeping a community feeling to the club so the next generation keeps coming through year after year after year and you make sure your customer, i.e you and me as the paying fan feel valued and appreciated
You develop your own players to sell them, which in turn helps continue the infrastructure development.  You also buy cheap, develop and sell for a profit.   Because you're developing players who are wanted by bigger clubs, there's a natural improvement on the field so you progress up the league, as a result more people come through the gates = more income.

Excellent post and I'd just add, that we would also get a name for giving youngsters a chance, a progressing them in their careers, which means we get better youngsters in through the door in the first place, meaning better future income.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Town should seriously strive to have a packed BP every single home game we are talking about 6500-7000 home supporters and personally with a bit of thought and some proper marketing it should not be that difficult? At present Town have 5k regular home supporters which drops to just under 4k when things are not great so they have a good base to start from.After we beat FGR this opportunity should have been seized it wasn`t Lincoln have shown the way.GTFC need to get their backsides in gear off the field with MT involvement and Target 5k for next August the support is out there they just need to grab it,respect it and embrace it. Employees in the ticket office were quick to accuse the fans of bullying and knocking down checkatrade attendances but what innovative thinking in the last 25 years of employment in said ticket office have we seen to boost gates? Do we have anyone at GTFC who is willing to sit down with the fans and look at ticketing for next Season before this one ends with a view to boosting gates or as normal are they preparing to lick a load of envelopes in June and beg us to renew? Wake up GTFC we could easily have a go at winning a Championship for the first time since 1980. League 2 is a poor League in my opinion and never mind surviving in it we should be looking to win it outright that`s how you get the fans onside.UTM

Lincoln have a better ground in a better location - easily accessible from the south where I expect alot of their growth in support has come from - there is big population in that Hykeham Newark Grantham Sleaford arc which may have been Nottm Forest dominated in their heyday. We have a excrement ground in a excrement location and I expect we've lost alot of our support in the wider county - if my dad wasnt going to the game I used to get a bus from Brigg that ran to every home game in the late 70s. There were others - nothing now. Gy and Clee has a falling ageing population, the county has growing population. The best we can hope for a Blundell Park is an average of 5 - 6k home fans, with max 2k away fans. We usually have one of the lowest averages for away fans at BP - the away end is crap and we have a hooligan reputation. We dont have good corporate facilities. Our playing budget will never be competitive above bottom half League 1 at best.

If Lincoln get a new ground before us they will clean up in the county - they'll become a mini-Norwich. In a nutshell - we have to get a new stadium...that is Fenty's biggest failure IMHO - he hasn't delivered.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

The decision was made very shortly after the Trust was given the shares. Membership was very low and people were very scared by the terms of a vote not to hand the shares over.

It's been covered many times but surely you will agree that threats to remove funding and sell Liam Hearn did not allow any other outcome?
It was democratic in the fact that their was a vote, everything else about it stank of ruthless bullying of a small supporters trust that was no threat to anyone.

I'm trying not to be flippant but what do you suggest should have happened? The Trust had to react to a situation. Mike Parker knew exactly what he was doing when he gifted the shares. From JF's point of view the man who, at that time was putting in the dosh was in a position where he could be outvoted. I'm not saying I agree with what he did but it is somewhat disingenuous for anyone to say they wouldn't have done the same in his position. What we will never know is whether he was bluffing. The membership weren't sure enough to call his bluff.  As regard membership and size of it-the period of the vote was one month which should have given people who felt strongly enough about the issue time to have joined the Trust and registered their feelings. I remember being surprised at the time that we didn't see a spike in membership.

Quoted from Bignic69

everything gets put to a vote and majority wins, simples.
a forum site where people can vent their opinions has absolutely no reflection on whether a group of supporters could run a football club

I'll assume you are talking about a vote amongst the Board of Management of the club? If not good luck with the admin. work that goes into organising just one vote. For all the Trust vote on the shares is continually ridiculed on here it cost the best part of 1K to organise once you factor in hard copy postal votes for members who don't use on line facilities.

Quoted from barralad

I'm trying not to be flippant but what do you suggest should have happened? The Trust had to react to a situation. Mike Parker knew exactly what he was doing when he gifted the shares. From JF's point of view the man who, at that time was putting in the dosh was in a position where he could be outvoted. I'm not saying I agree with what he did but it is somewhat disingenuous for anyone to say they wouldn't have done the same in his position. What we will never know is whether he was bluffing. The membership weren't sure enough to call his bluff.  As regard membership and size of it-the period of the vote was one month which should have given people who felt strongly enough about the issue time to have joined the Trust and registered their feelings. I remember being surprised at the time that we didn't see a spike in membership.

I don’t for one minute blame the Trust, I also don’t blame those who voted for it.

The MP share issue has been done to death and it could’ve been avoided if public promises were kept. The situation Parker was put in was no accident.

That stuff about being outvoted was nonsense and the Trust were in no position to do that. It was a ruthless grab of power that was not in the best interests of the club, but the individual.

Quoted from ginnywings

There are no assurances that can be made. Everything is a risk but the current board are not the only people in N.E.Lincs capable of running a small football club. No wonder the club is so parochial, if the fans are anything to judge by.

Hence why I said "if". The whole point inmy statement was that its unlikely we would ever have such assurances.......

I find it quite amusing that the majority of the Town voted BREXIT, which could have a humongous impact on the country on the promises of getting "Are Cuntry Bac"! and "put the Great back in Britain", with very little evidence of it actually doing any good in the short to medium term future. Yet when it comes to taking over a fairly stable club (accounts wise) over the last 15 years it's too risky!