Clarke Carlise

Clarke has been released from hospital,

He said he had tried to kill himself after feeling at a very low point,

Get well soon Clarke, depression is a horrible illness.

With you there Pete.

Ralf Little (remember him?) has waded in:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1skfskk

Think it's a clumsy bit of writing but it does raise the question about how much of Carlisle's problems are down to depression and how much are down to him being a bit of a male private.

Quoted from Bruce Springsteen

REMOVED

thanks for your insightful contribution, as per usual.

as the old saying goes ' it takes one to know one'

Quoted from Bruce Springsteen

QUOTE REMOVED

in this instance if you haven't got anything nice to say keep your flipping mouth shut. keyboard warrior.

Now here is a bloke with real problems ... He's obviously in a very dark place and deserves a lot of sympathy and help . Can't help thinking he'll get his wish sooner or later tho .

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Now here is a bloke with real problems ... He's obviously in a very dark place and deserves a lot of sympathy and help . Can't help thinking he'll get his wish sooner or later tho .

The media jumped on the depression sympathy bandwagon far too fast and appears to have convinced the public that this is the right angle on what happened.

Clearly there is a lot more to this chap and to the story and it is just as wrong to see him as a victim or as a saint as to call him a tosser.

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2940812/Enough-Actor-Ralf-Little-accuses-former-friend-Clarke-Carlisle-not-telling-story-interview-depression-led-suicide-attempt.html[/url]

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Now here is a bloke with real problems ... He's obviously in a very dark place and deserves a lot of sympathy and help . Can't help thinking he'll get his wish sooner or later tho .

Mmmm so he went to parties got drunk too many times, ended up with a drink problem that may well have led to his depression, stole money from his friend, blew all his and his wife's money in one bet, got drunk again and drove without any thought for who he might kill or injure then threw himself in front of a lorry without any thought to the driver who he may kill if he swerved to avoid him or at least the driver would have had to live with the thought that he killed him.

I'm sorry but I think any sympathy I had has just blown out of the window.

Quoted from Bruce Springsteen

QUOTE REMOVED

Disgusting comments. You would have had no idea what was running through his head at the time.

Quoted from Bruce Springsteen

QUOTE REMOVED

You are a complete Moron and the one who is a detestable shithouse.

I've never suffered from mental health issues but some of the people I love the most have really struggled with it. The thing about about mental illness is that it warps your sense of perceptions and leads you to illogical decisions.

Tragically, he probably thought that his family was best off without him.

Many metal health conditions are caused by a chemical in balance in the brain and or genetic abnormalities of the brain - there are precious little you can do about having these - it's just bad luck in the same way that cancer or heart disease are bad luck.

People who are ill for whatever reason need our sympathy, abusing someone for a mental health issue is like a kicking someone in a wheelchair.

Quoted from Bruce Springsteen

QUOTE REMOVED

You hide behind a keyboard and type that Drivel.

I have sympathy for his depression but it is a very selfish thing to involve vehicles on a road. I recall a driver doing the same thing on the M180 a few years ago and ploughing into a family devastating them killing the dad and leaving at least one child with life changing injuries. If you are to attempt your life there are many ways that don't involve the lives of others. Hope he gets the help but not impressed in any way with his actions.

Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle

I have sympathy for his depression but it is a very selfish thing to involve vehicles on a road. I recall a driver doing the same thing on the M180 a few years ago and ploughing into a family devastating them killing the dad and leaving at least one child with life changing injuries. If you are to attempt your life there are many ways that don't involve the lives of others. Hope he gets the help but not impressed in any way with his actions.

A rational and reasonable person would not involve another person in their suicide, but suicide is not the act of a rational and reasonable individual. As I said earlier mental illness deprives individuals of  their decision making capacity. This is why we often section people when their decision making  becomes severely compromised. Calling Carlisle selfish, is deluded. He isn't acting selfishly in this incidence because he doesn't have the capacity to make selfish decisions. He decision making is compromised to such an extent that he is unable to weigh issues and empathise with others while he is this type of mental state.

It's really important we don't judge people who have mental illnesses while they are displaying problematic behaviour. It is not their fault.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

It's really important we don't judge people who have mental illnesses while they are displaying problematic behaviour. It is not their fault.

I sort of agree, but only to a point. You can't be absolved of all blame for everything you subsequently do wrong in life just because you were diagnosed with depression. Continually drink driving is a terrible crime and I hope he is punished.

Quoted from psgmariner

I sort of agree, but only to a point. You can't be absolved of all blame for everything you subsequently do wrong in life just because you were diagnosed with depression. Continually drink driving is a terrible crime and I hope he is punished.

From someone who suffers this dreadful illness, I can understand what went through Clarkes mind at the time,

When you are in that dark place you have no  control over your actions so to say he should not do this or do that is just impossible,

He will be charge with drunk driving because being depressed is no excuse, even though he was suffering at the time.

Suprised to read this.Hope he recovers and never gets to that dark place ever again

Quoted from psgmariner

I sort of agree, but only to a point. You can't be absolved of all blame for everything you subsequently do wrong in life just because you were diagnosed with depression. Continually drink driving is a terrible crime and I hope he is punished.

In terms of the law, mental health issues can lead to an:
An acquittal in certain circumstances.
A mitigating factor in sentencing.

Maybe "judge" was the wrong word - treat sympathetically would probably be a better word. Capacity is the key issue, in terms of this how "able" was Carlisle to make an informed decision. It isn't black and white, it's more of a sliding scale. I'm not saying that Clarke should be "let off" because of depression ( a term I don't like as it implies that someone's "just a bit down" ) but rather that punishing him overly would be cruel.

We lock up far too many people with mental health issues every year. If we offered them proper mental health services then we could cut crime and ease the taxpayers burden. But then the Daily Mail would have a S**tfit, so that wouldn't be allowed.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Now here is a bloke with real problems ... He's obviously in a very dark place and deserves a lot of sympathy and help . Can't help thinking he'll get his wish sooner or later tho .

Who you talking about ,Bruce?

Quoted from grimsby pete

From someone who suffers this dreadful illness, I can understand what went through Clarkes mind at the time,

When you are in that dark place you have no  control over your actions so to say he should not do this or do that is just impossible,

He will be charge with drunk driving because being depressed is no excuse, even though he was suffering at the time.

psg: it isn't about blame.
grimsby pete, you have my sympathy, depression is rampant and pretty ferkin cruel, no prisoners. i salute you, you have been honest knowing what might come in this forum. i am left with this, opinions are like bottom holes, everyone has one (adendum: new facts come to light. imperforate anus, no opening or blocked opening of the anus), but the point still remains: our democratic belief means we give the right to people to speak shyte, and i will fight for that. whateever happened with Clarke, no doubt the results are no picnic to get over. If any member of this forum has been responsible for a similar tragedy and wants t speak up, you should do it now and keep the talking going instead of the judging.......

Quoted from horsforthmariner

A rational and reasonable person would not involve another person in their suicide, but suicide is not the act of a rational and reasonable individual. As I said earlier mental illness deprives individuals of  their decision making capacity. This is why we often section people when their decision making  becomes severely compromised. Calling Carlisle selfish, is deluded. He isn't acting selfishly in this incidence because he doesn't have the capacity to make selfish decisions. He decision making is compromised to such an extent that he is unable to weigh issues and empathise with others while he is this type of mental state.

It's really important we don't judge people who have mental illnesses while they are displaying problematic behaviour. It is not their fault.

Really? Not capable of decision making. Even with mental health issues you certainly have a decision making process ability. He doesn't have severe learning difficulties. If lee Hughes had been depressed at the time of his incident and he may or may not have been, would that have been enough for the court to have let him off. Carlisle had allegedly been drink driving recently before this incident. On that basis he could have been drinking before this one. That would have affected his decision making. I have a lot of sympathy for depression and have experienced it over the years in  people I have known. I can assure you that I have never met anyone who could not have made a rational decision not to involve other vehicles on the road.

Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle

Really? Not capable of decision making. Even with mental health issues you certainly have a decision making process ability. He doesn't have severe learning difficulties. If lee Hughes had been depressed at the time of his incident and he may or may not have been, would that have been enough for the court to have let him off. Carlisle had allegedly been drink driving recently before this incident. On that basis he could have been drinking before this one. That would have affected his decision making. I have a lot of sympathy for depression and have experienced it over the years in  people I have known. I can assure you that I have never met anyone who could not have made a rational decision not to involve other vehicles on the road.

I'm sorry you are just wrong about this. Mental health illnesses severely limit your ability to make informed decisions. That's why we section people - because they are unable to make rational and reasonable consequences. Which is what happened to Carlise

Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle

Really? Not capable of decision making. Even with mental health issues you certainly have a decision making process ability. He doesn't have severe learning difficulties. If lee Hughes had been depressed at the time of his incident and he may or may not have been, would that have been enough for the court to have let him off. Carlisle had allegedly been drink driving recently before this incident. On that basis he could have been drinking before this one. That would have affected his decision making. I have a lot of sympathy for depression and have experienced it over the years in  people I have known. I can assure you that I have never met anyone who could not have made a rational decision not to involve other vehicles on the road.

what are your credentials for making statements about mental health Alan Poulton's Tackle? Seriously, how in command of the facts, actual facts are you? Or do facts cloud your judgement? Maybe you just prefer to make statements based on instinct and blind prejudice?
http://youtu.be/4n-UGQcG3Jw

Quoted from BeijingMariner

what are your credentials for making statements about mental health Alan Poulton's Tackle? Seriously, how in command of the facts, actual facts are you? Or do facts cloud your judgement? Maybe you just prefer to make statements based on instinct and blind prejudice?
http://youtu.be/4n-UGQcG3Jw

Erm you could say the same to anyone posting a comment on here even those who have suffered either previously or are suffering now, no one knows the exact facts about Mr Carlisle's situation.

Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle

I have sympathy for his depression but it is a very selfish thing to involve vehicles on a road. I recall a driver doing the same thing on the M180 a few years ago and ploughing into a family devastating them killing the dad and leaving at least one child with life changing injuries. If you are to attempt your life there are many ways that don't involve the lives of others. Hope he gets the help but not impressed in any way with his actions.

Fully agree, I was chatting to a customer who sons friend is the train driver who killed someone on the tracks a couple of weeks back.  She said it has had a terrible effect on the train driver and he may never be able to drive a train again.

If you are going to opt out of life, leave innocents out of your plans.

Quoted from BeijingMariner

what are your credentials for making statements about mental health Alan Poulton's Tackle? Seriously, how in command of the facts, actual facts are you? Or do facts cloud your judgement? Maybe you just prefer to make statements based on instinct and blind prejudice?
http://youtu.be/4n-UGQcG3Jw

Probably the same or similar to other people that have posted on here and seem informed on every issue known to man. What has happened is people have taken an admittance of depression being justification for an instance of dangerous driving. There will be factors surrounding this that if they ever come out may show it is not as simple as that. I would suggest that there are no experts of depression on here but if there are I would welcome them to come on here and shoot me down.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

I'm sorry you are just wrong about this. Mental health illnesses severely limit your ability to make informed decisions. That's why we section people - because they are unable to make rational and reasonable consequences. Which is what happened to Carlise

Not many people are sectioned with depression. You are mixing it up with Personality disorders or Psychosis. If Carlisle is claiming these types of mental health issues I will understand his actions more.But he isn't

He's been suffering from alcoholism and depression problems for years . I think his first public bout was when he was playing for Watford so that was a good while back now . Drinking and depression probably made worse by a concoction of happy pills have obviously fooked his head good and proper . I fully agree though that he shouldn't have involved an innocent truck driver who could've faced prosecution and a lifetime of blame for someone else's selfish action . Let's face it it's easy enough to commit suicide if u really want to . The east coast mainline would pretty much guarantee that .
Shame of it is he actually always came over well on tv and looked like he had got over his problems .

Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle

Not many people are sectioned with depression. You are mixing it up with Personality disorders or Psychosis. If Carlisle is claiming these types of mental health issues I will understand his actions more.But he isn't

Carlisle was sectioned - from xmas day until 3 days ago

What a sad and sorry situation for everyone involved. The only winner in this is the tabloids That said, its about time mens mental health should no longer be regarded as a taboo subject.

I'm sure he has plenty of support from his family and friends, lets hope he gets better.
I've never taken to the man and surprised he's done so well. I don't know how he got the job on the telly
I remember watching a programme that he appeared in (I think it was one on retired footballers)
I'm sure he talked about the fact he wouldn't be prepared to share a changing room with a team mate if he knew he was gay.
Next thing he's the PFA chairman and fronting the kick racism out of football committee. There were far far better candidates.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Now here is a bloke with real problems ... He's obviously in a very dark place and deserves a lot of sympathy and help . Can't help thinking he'll get his wish sooner or later tho .

I know I shouldn't joke but are you writing about Clarke or Bruce?

My question exactly for which Pete gave me a negative reputation????

Quoted from arryarryarry

Mmmm so he went to parties got drunk too many times, ended up with a drink problem that may well have led to his depression, stole money from his friend, blew all his and his wife's money in one bet, got drunk again and drove without any thought for who he might kill or injure then threw himself in front of a lorry without any thought to the driver who he may kill if he swerved to avoid him or at least the driver would have had to live with the thought that he killed him.

I'm sorry but I think any sympathy I had has just blown out of the window.

I know of a former Train Driver whos life was totally fooked up by a guy who thought it would be a good idea to kill himself by walking out in front of the train he was driving.
Carlise said 'I jumped in front of lorry because I wanted to die' and what I've seen and read of this episode he couldn't give a excrement about the effect on the wagon driver.
It may sound harsh but he comes across as 'look at poor poor me' IMO

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Carlisle was sectioned - from xmas day until 3 days ago

No he wasn't!!

Quoted from friskneymariner

My question exactly for which Pete gave me a negative reputation????

Sorry mate , I don't know how I did that ,

I have give you a plus one now ,

Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle

No he wasn't!!

Sectioning is often misunderstood. The Mental Health act has many "sections" and one can be held under sections 2 to 5 ,depending on the circumstances of your case. When it was established that he had tried to take his own life in the way that he did, i'd be surprised if he wasn't detained on one of them given the danger he was in to himself and others.

Truth is, we don't know and that is exactly how it should be. There is this misconception among some that sectioning is akin to being carted off in a straight jacket.

Quoted from ginnywings

Sectioning is often misunderstood. The Mental Health act has many "sections" and one can be held under sections 2 to 5 ,depending on the circumstances of your case. When it was established that he had tried to take his own life in the way that he did, i'd be surprised if he wasn't detained on one of them given the danger he was in to himself and others.

Truth is, we don't know and that is exactly how it should be. There is this misconception among some that sectioning is akin to being carted off in a straight jacket.

I understand sectioning. Carlisle was in a coma until very recently and has received as he should psychiatric help which I'm sure will continue and hopefully he will fully engage with to recover fully, but he was never sectioned . I add that I really hope he fully recovers and gets his life back on track, I am only critical of the method used and the fact he engaged a third party in it, where that lorry taking avoiding action could have involved other road users and kill innocents. I take it that he didn't step in front of the lorry as soon as it was close to him because there was no way he could have survived. I can only guess the driver took some sort of avoiding action to mitigate his injuries so must have seen him on the carriageway a good way off. my thoughts are also with him and hope he has not been over affected as well.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Sorry mate , I don't know how I did that ,

I have give you a plus one now ,

Thank you Pete appreciate that normally water off ducks back but coming from you I thought what have I done to deserve that,best wishes.