Answers from Mariners Trust about board matters

Mariners Trust have put together this Q & A in response to some questions/comments they have received. This is in the documents section on the website in the members proposal folder http://www.marinerstrust.co.uk/index.php/mariners-trust-document.

Q & A arising from agreement of criteria for a place on the board

Why should the supporters put in £30k pa when existing directors do not have to?
The terms of joining at that time were much different to those set out in the current Protocol agreement. The new agreement was introduced in 2009 and stipulates that a new director shall provide loans/guarantees equivalent to the average of the aggregate of the loans/guarantees held by the other directors. The £30k we have negotiated is massively below this level.

Supporters put their money through the turnstiles – why should they pay any more?
The paper we issued recently about the finances of the club clearly shows that there is a shortfall of £500k pa between income v expenditure. As supporters we believe we should be doing everything we can to help this situation and keep the club as competitive as possible not just now, but also for the future.

You have said that a board place comes with responsibilities, does this mean that members could be liable for huge debts?
Absolutely not. First of all it is impossible under the club’s protocol agreement for a director to take any money out of the club unless the club can afford it. Secondly the Trust is a limited liability society and as such the only thing at risk would be any assets owned by the society (there aren’t any).Members have no liability.  There is a legal responsibility for the individual who is the representative in so much that as a director there would be serious consequences if the club was knowingly trading illegally.

What happens if the £30k is not achieved? – We have already had this debate with the club. The wording actually says “look to achieve £30k”  and if we fall short of this, but we are still very active and  adding value, there is not a problem. Also going forward the lines will become more and more blurred as we get involved in some joint projects. For example we have already had discussions about next years Golf Day, It’s a knockout event and family day for the pre season friendly with Sunderland with the aim of making these much bigger and better events. We will agree the value of our contribution to these sort of things as we go along.

The Trust should save the £30k per annum so that they are ready to step in when the club goes into administration.
The Trust strongly believes that ‘prevention’ is better than cure. We need to work with the club to reduce expenditure and increase income to ensure that administration does not become a reality.

How are you going to achieve the £30k?
Actually the better question is how are we going to achieve the £30k . Clearly we cannot do this without the support of the members and obviously part of that is that we need more members. We have several income streams which if fully supported will achieve the target .  The projections we have done are as follows :- Events £16k , Membership £5k , Bar Profit £5k,!00’s Club/raffles etc £5k ,Others (eg donations/merchandise etc ) £2k  This is a broad shape and by no means hard and fast but shows that with everyone’s support it is eminently achievable

How will the trust representative on the board work. Will each member get a vote?  
Wherever possible when issues are known in advance, and confidentiality allows, members will be consulted. There will be some occasions when this is not possible and the representative will have to act on his/her own initiative.

Who will the representative be?
We are not at that point yet. There will be an interview process with the club to ensure suitability. There has been some comments that we do not challenge and ask difficult questions. That is not true, our style may be less aggressive than some might like but we do not, and will not, avoid the difficult issues.

Although not a direct question this development has once again raised the issue of the transfer of shares back to John Fenty .
There are a couple of points from this that need covering. Firstly whether you agreed with it or not it has been done, and nothing can change that. The majority of the board supported it and 81% of the voting members supported it. Secondly there have been a number of comments such as “ I’d like to know what Supporters Direct thought“ inferring that Supporters Direct were never consulted in the process .

The fact is that Supporters Direct were fully behind us and supported us with advice and knowledge both during and after the event. They agreed that in our circumstance the size of the shareholding was less important than achieving involvement in the club in a co-operative manner. In a subsequent visit they were very complimentary about the level of involvement we have already achieved without a board position and commented that it was better than some who do have a board representative.

We firmly believe that we now need to look forward rather than backwards and grasp the opportunity we have with both hands. For too many years now this, ‘us and them’ culture, has developed not only between club and supporters but also within the supporters themselves has been so damaging and demoralising.  Let’s try and move the agenda to ‘we’ rather than ‘us and them’, we might be pleasantly surprised by the result.

Finally we welcome challenge and different views and we certainly do not have all the answers ourselves. If you want to get involved please do feel free to contact us. We have board places available and also we are always in need of help on an ad hoc basis.

I admire what the trust is trying to achieve.
Giving away £30,000 every year to a business that is losing £500,000 a year does not seem a viable plan to me.
Surely, getting GTFC to be losing as little as possible is the first priority of the current board.

Thanks Harry, it looks like we are moving forward in the right direction

Quoted from STB

I admire what the trust is trying to achieve.
Giving away £30,000 every year to a business that is losing £500,000 a year does not seem a viable plan to me.
Surely, getting GTFC to be losing as little as possible is the first priority of the current board.

think they addressed your question here, STB

The Trust strongly believes that ‘prevention’ is better than cure. We need to work with the club to reduce expenditure and increase income to ensure that administration does not become a reality.


thanks to the trust for that - has answered my questions; just wish the other directors could be seen to be making as much effort as the Trust

ps fao the trust - dunno if anyone has suggested this but very easy way to raise some cash would be a name card in the bar at each home match/function

very easy and quick to do and should be able to raise £50 a match/function - over a season with friendlies/cup matches/functions £1500 could be made - that's 5% of the target achieved with minimal effort

Just a quick question re the bars:

Above, it mentions profit of £5,000 from the bars. I'm guessing the Trust must be providing the club with a royalty (rent) to run the bars and that the £5,000 is what the Trust estimates will be made on top of the royalty? Or were the bars run at such a loss before that the Club has given the Trust full reign and the £5,000 is the only profit?

Summed up: is the £5,000 profit estimate all that GTFC (via the Trust) will see in a year from the sale of alcohol at the bars?

(is that a very conservative estimate?)

Quoted from Southwark Mariner

Just a quick question re the bars:

Above, it mentions profit of £5,000 from the bars. I'm guessing the Trust must be providing the club with a royalty (rent) to run the bars and that the £5,000 is what the Trust estimates will be made on top of the royalty? Or were the bars run at such a loss before that the Club has given the Trust full reign and the £5,000 is the only profit?

Summed up: is the £5,000 profit estimate all that GTFC (via the Trust) will see in a year from the sale of alcohol at the bars?

(is that a very conservative estimate?)

Yet again, regarding bars, no answer as to whether the board will be setting up tables pre-match in them for people to join the trust in person, paying in cash! Surely, if you set it up pre-Wrexham, Lincoln etc where 4000+ would be expected, you'd get a few more members getting the Trust closer to that target.

Quoted from Paris Mariner

Yet again, regarding bars, no answer as to whether the board will be setting up tables pre-match in them for people to join the trust in person, paying in cash! Surely, if you set it up pre-Wrexham, Lincoln etc where 4000+ would be expected, you'd get a few more members getting the Trust closer to that target.

http://www.thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1352500975/

Quoted from STB

I admire what the trust is trying to achieve.
Giving away £30,000 every year to a business that is losing £500,000 a year does not seem a viable plan to me.
Surely, getting GTFC to be losing as little as possible is the first priority of the current board.

Surely anything business related to a football club (with the exception of a few worldwide) is not a viable plan!

Quoted from cocky

Surely anything business related to a football club (with the exception of a few worldwide) is not a viable plan!

Well if it is not viable, why throw an extra £30,000 in each season ?

on the subject of saving money, i don't know if we do have anyone but at Stanley the programme sellers and some of the bar workers and turnstile people work for free. I don't know if we do this but surely some people out there would be willing to do this to help the club? ... Young people more so because it'd look good on the CV if you show that you've worked 'voluntery'