In Hurst I trust

I'm now calming down after today's terrible performance.

Let's face it we aren't getting relegated or promoted.

He probably learnt more about the players today than if he had played our strongest team from the start.

In Hurst I trust.

I’m afraid I don’t, ridiculous starting eleven against a side that’s second to bottom and conceded shed loads of goals, and they murdered us. I rest my case.

Quoted from promotion plaice

I'm now calming down after today's terrible performance.

Let's face it we aren't getting relegated or promoted.

He probably learnt more about the players today than if he had played our strongest team from the start.

In Hurst I trust.

I was thinking the same. In fairness he changed the abysmal starting line up for the 2nd half and before the penalty their looked only one winner. I suspect that quite a few will not be here next season and so quite a rebuild required. I am with Hurst and he will be hurting I am sure. We lack physical power and pace and he will know this. It was for me the worst performance of the season but I am over it. utm

I’m not wanting Hurst out but I am wanting to see his approach to our tactics and team selection change for home games. There are some very unflattering statistics on other threads about our home record in the EFL since his return a couple of years ago. Underneath these statistics are the quality of football and entertainment on offer and these are as equally depressing.

What is so baffling is that they are in complete contrast to our performances in the playoffs and in the majority of this years cup games. One would have thought that given our success in these would have helped influence his approach when selecting a side and tactics for home matches. Away from home a few tweaks might help but in the main his tactical approach to these games is far more understandable.

Maybe he needs to look at changing his number two, which might appear harsh on Doigy, but someone with different ideas, approach and an alternative sounding board might be worth consideration. Certainly kept Ferguson at the top for twenty plus years.

There are clear issues right now, but we have a summer and beyond to put them right. If anyone doesn’t trust in Paul Hurst, they have short memories. His record of improving teams year-on-year when given the time to do so is unreal.

Next season will be different. I feel pretty confident in saying that.

I have lost faith in Hurst twice before and both times he almost immediately made me feel very silly. This season has been joyous, frustrating and downright weird all at the same time, but that's football. I think Hurst will improve the side in the summer - by how much, I don't know.

However frustrating and limited Hurst is as a football manager, just remember that the club is going to see some significant change over the next few years, and the manager is at the centre of that regeneration as he is a key consultant on everything, from the youth strategy to the specifications of the new training ground. One day we'll need to move on from him and seek a more progressive coaching direction, but he's the only man I trust to lead us through this period of substantial change.

Quoted from Poojah

There are clear issues right now, but we have a summer and beyond to put them right. If anyone doesn’t trust in Paul Hurst, they have short memories. His record of improving teams year-on-year when given the time to do so is unreal.

Next season will be different. I feel pretty confident in saying that.

His record of improving teams year on year is unreal, really?  His record of his teams falling away at the business end of the season is very real I’m afraid.

Quoted from promotion plaice

I'm now calming down after today's terrible performance.

Let's face it we aren't getting relegated or promoted.

He probably learnt more about the players today than if he had played our strongest team from the start.

In Hurst I trust.

Are we mathematically safe .No, and if we play like today for the rest of the season we will lose every game

Quoted from Norseman

Are we mathematically safe .No, and if we play like today for the rest of the season we will lose every game

Not at all, i tried the calculator. I got Crawley below us but not by much. I predicted that we got 3 home draws. One win should be enough. Utm

If he's gonna play around with the starting lineup, I'd rather some of the young lads get a run out.  I've been impressed with Khouri's attitude during his cameos and would like to see more of him.  

Quoted from promotion plaice

I'm now calming down after today's terrible performance.

Let's face it we aren't getting relegated or promoted.

He probably learnt more about the players today than if he had played our strongest team from the start.

In Hurst I trust.

Frigging hell, if he doesn't know his players by this time of a season he should give up.

Hurst is a steady pair of hands for 1878. They need that while they focus on improving things off the pitch.

In this day and age, a football club can't sustain success unless everything is in place off the pitch. So, while they might not broadcast it, I think they will accept consolidation and small improvements each year while they deliver the new training facility, balance the books, etc.

Even if we finish 17th or 18th this season, with the cup run considered, it's been an acceptable return to FL football following a year in non-league (although I accept not everyone will agree with this).

The only way I can see Hurst being in any danger of losing his job next season is if we're in the bottom four or five in Oct/Nov. This wouldn't represent any sort of improvement.

I'm currently still behind PH and the team. If we go the rest of the season without a win then I'd be reconsidering. If we finish with a couple wins, draws, loses etc then I'm happy to see what happens in the summer. I just hope he changes the way he sets up at home games, I still can't believe the starting XI yesterday against 2nd bottom.

I wouldn’t change the management, but I’d like to see the management evolve - the home record is dreadful and must indicate in stats ten feet high that, tactically, there needs to be a rethink and a more progressive, positive approach generally. I also think it’s clear that we need a serious upgrade on about half a dozen players.

Quoted from TheFryingSquad

His record of improving teams year on year is unreal, really?  His record of his teams falling away at the business end of the season is very real I’m afraid.

Never thought about it this way before in honesty, should have seen this last season when we fell right away at the business end of the season...

I'm finding increasingly hard to trust in Hurst now, he's becoming the league 2 tinkermsn. He's trying to out think the opposition manager too much and losing any identity we may have had in the process, almost like he's clutching at straws now.
Maybe if he focused on our style of play ( a la being a good counter attaching team away from home) rather than worry about the opposition I'd not be so sceptical.
Its all conjecture as I don't see S&P getting rid anytime soon and we have to accept what we get in Hurst is what we have...

I’m supportive, though the selection yesterday was a dumb one considering the context of the attendance, opposition and opportunity to just get over that 50 point mark.

What has been clear for ages about GTFC is that the budget the manager and a few of his predecessors have had to work with has not been good enough to recruit the level of player who can stay fit we need and most expect.

I suspect that this close season Hurst will have funds ahead of the level he’s had since he came to the club on his first occasion which should enable a different level of recruitment especially up front and a more attacking style of play.

Quoted from TheFryingSquad

His record of improving teams year on year is unreal, really?  His record of his teams falling away at the business end of the season is very real I’m afraid.

Ok then, should we sack him?

Dont ever trust in anyone in life  And if you are going to mess about with the team, dont do it in front of the paying fans. They have paid good money to see the best that can be put out on the pitch not the fringe etc players and silly formations.   And why after a season do you need to see how and what players can do ,That is for behind closed doors games. And you should know your players well before the back end of a season . We may improve next season but again its the next season  the next window etc etc

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Never thought about it this way before in honesty, should have seen this last season when we fell right away at the business end of the season...

You are correct of course, 11 losses, 1 draw and 2 wins from 14 consecutive games, impressive stuff.  Thankfully Wrexham, Notts County and Solihull all managed to implode in the play-offs.  I have no issue with you holding an opposing view to mine and of course yes, selective use of statistics can be misleading, but reality is this:  Paul Hurst has had one single period during a managerial career, dating back to 2013 as a sole manager, where he managed a club outside of the bottom tier/non-league, with any glimmer of consistency.  That of course was Shrewsbury, where predictably they fell away when it really mattered.

Wasnt there yesterday but losing 4-1 at home to a team who are flirting with relegation is never a good look .

I think Hurst has currency in the bank , but in both spells with us the home performances have never been easy on the eye in the main ,and I dont expect that to change dramatically in truth .

But what i do expect next season is to be challenging at the top end .Winning ugly football is acceptable ,but when you are playing badly and not doing particularly well at home fans are fair enough to question the manager especially when its something ongoing  that has not been rectified .

I am firmly Hurst in , but if we are floating around mid table at xmas ,playing like we have at home it would be the time to start questioning his position IMO.

Lets hope he makes the most of the improved playing budget and doesnt completely "keep us shape' with the wage structure ,because if he does i fear it could be the undoing of him .

Can't see how anyone can defend him after that yesterday, set up wrong from the start and before a ball was kicked the fans, radio pundits and probably players were confused and questioning the tactics employed against a team second bottom and lacking in confidence

I would have had more respect for Hurst if he had gone on the radio and put his hands up and admitted he got it wrong, but no he as i expected watched a completely different game to the other 7400 in the ground

The new owners have so far had it all their own way but the fans have been let down this year and i fear will leave in droves next season by not renewing season tickets

Bitterly disappointing end to a season  

Quoted from Simon

Can't see how anyone can defend him after that yesterday, set up wrong from the start and before a ball was kicked the fans, radio pundits and probably players were confused and questioning the tactics employed against a team second bottom and lacking in confidence

I would have had more respect for Hurst if he had gone on the radio and put his hands up and admitted he got it wrong, but no he as i expected watched a completely different game to the other 7400 in the ground

The new owners have so far had it all their own way but the fans have been let down this year and i fear will leave in droves next season by not renewing season tickets

Bitterly disappointing end to a season  

When did the owners start picking the team?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

When did the owners start picking the team?

Never said they did, they selected a manager that has dished up just FOUR home league wins all season which simply isn't good enough

Quoted from Simon

Never said they did, they selected a manager that has dished up just FOUR home league wins all season which simply isn't good enough

Though they were consulted Fenty appointed Hurst when he came back, 1878 didn’t own the club at the time.

The manager got it wrong yesterday but he didn’t waste good goal scoring opportunities, ball watch when they put the ball into the box, dive in with crazy tackles or cough the ball up when it should have easily remained in our possession.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

When did the owners start picking the team?

Maybe they should ?

Quoted from Poojah

There are clear issues right now, but we have a summer and beyond to put them right. If anyone doesn’t trust in Paul Hurst, they have short memories. His record of improving teams year-on-year when given the time to do so is unreal.

Next season will be different. I feel pretty confident in saying that.

It's not often I disagree whilst reading one of your posts, but I do with the bit about improving teams  year on year.

I think he swaps one set of players for another; there never seems to be a plan, or a playing style and if you are an attacking wide player don't even think of joining us unless you are a complete workaholic who is happy to sacrifice your skills for tracking back with the rest of the team. This is the basic reason for our shocking home form - everybody is thinking about defending.

On the other side of the coin he has provided some of the greatest ever days in our recent history.  What an enigma he is!

He is the man the owners trust, but he won't be our manager forever and I think he needs to really look at his methods and ethos and come to a conclusion about what exactly he is trying to achieve with how he wants the team to function.

You know in football you are either up or down and he can quickly go from hero to zero if home performances don't improve.

What’s disappointing is that these games are now about selling tickets for next season
Personally I think the club missed an opportunity by not getting season tickets on sale immediately after the cup run ended. Now the season fizzles out playing defensive line ups and getting hammered by relegation fodder

If we had got knocked out at Cambridge or Luton it would be a very different position to what we're in, but should it be? The league season is the bread and butter. PH is a cautious manager and has never won automatic promotion at any club (I think). He does enough to keep his job. It's very unlikely we get relegated with him. He'll obviously be staying and getting the summer to recruit but I have the horrible feeling that we'll end up in much the same league position next year. Fans will drift away and we'll get sucked downwards again. The next few months are massive. Big decisions to make for all concerned.

Mark my word probably will lose 1500 season ticket holders on the back of being served that dross at home week in week out. But we are 'lucky' and had a quick turnaround from the summer.. absolute balderdash they play twice a week, not like a bloke traipsing up and down the country working 6 days a week 12 hours a day. It's a shithouse excuse and a weak one.

Had the chance to capitilize on the feel good factor from last year and we never.. Never even entertained having a decent enough budget to have an outside chance. Relied on an aging Taylor who never managed a full season the previous year.. 4 wins at home all season is an absolute horror, if we didn't have the cup run then massive fingers would of been pointed. I'm in the same boat that I think we will be bottom half next year, Paul would rather not lose a game than go and try win one.

Quoted from Poojah

Ok then, should we sack him?

NO...!!
We have just this season got back into League 2, Was we / I expecting miracles and go up into League 1 in one season NO I don't think so.
The FA Cup run proved "Town" can pull it out the bag and shock us and rest of the Football leagues.. Brilliant to be apart of it
and watch.
BUT  then we have had a couple of "Clangers" too yesterday Hartlepool and also the Swindon game comes to mind watching that game then "Oh whats the ref doing on the floor?" ..yes that game!!
So yes put abit faith in PH, If he does read "The Fishy " then hopefully He is thick skinned enough to take the criticism and also take on board the positive ideas put across, try him there, put so and so on earlier / give him a full game etc.
IF / They fit enough ready to play etc...
Again dare i say before we finish witch hunting the manager.
"Funny old game Football !!"
Lets see what happens  against Doncaster Rovers Monday
UTM

Quoted from GrimRob

If we had got knocked out at Cambridge or Luton it would be a very different position to what we're in, but should it be? The league season is the bread and butter. PH is a cautious manager and has never won automatic promotion at any club (I think). He does enough to keep his job. It's very unlikely we get relegated with him. He'll obviously be staying and getting the summer to recruit but I have the horrible feeling that we'll end up in much the same league position next year. Fans will drift away and we'll get sucked downwards again. The next few months are massive. Big decisions to make for all concerned.

I'm with you on this. I think the verbal instructions to Hurst by 1878 was thank you for getting us into league 2, now make sure we stay there. As you put it the summer months are critical to getting the right signings in and getting rid of the deadwood. Hurst admitted to JT that his budget has increased so there is no reason for him not to spend the cash, wisely.

The aim next season must be in the top 3 or playoffs minimum. There is no excuse for this not to happen next season.

Quoted from TheFryingSquad

His record of improving teams year on year is unreal, really?  His record of his teams falling away at the business end of the season is very real I’m afraid.

Short memory?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Though they were consulted Fenty appointed Hurst when he came back, 1878 didn’t own the club at the time.

This is how I recall it too.

It's actually quite difficult to pin down an opinion on Hurst to be fair. Just when things seem to be on the slide he manages to turn it round again. A few weeks ago all looked rosy with those 2 wins prior to the Brighton game and a high league finish beckoned.

I think for all our sakes he needs to galvanise the team again, though not a disaster as such if we again finish 18th or thereabouts it will just reinforce outside beliefs that we are a yo yo club between league 2 lower end and the NL which will be a great shame.

I think going by his interviews last week the penny has finally dropped that you have to pay the wages good players command even in league 2, so let's hope he can get the quality in we need.

Quoted from The Caterham Mariner

NO...!!
We have just this season got back into League 2, Was we / I expecting miracles and go up into League 1 in one season NO I don't think so.
The FA Cup run proved "Town" can pull it out the bag and shock us and rest of the Football leagues.. Brilliant to be apart of it
and watch.
BUT  then we have had a couple of "Clangers" too yesterday Hartlepool and also the Swindon game comes to mind watching that game then "Oh whats the ref doing on the floor?" ..yes that game!!
So yes put abit faith in PH, If he does read "The Fishy " then hopefully He is thick skinned enough to take the criticism and also take on board the positive ideas put across, try him there, put so and so on earlier / give him a full game etc.
IF / They fit enough ready to play etc...
Again dare i say before we finish witch hunting the manager.
"Funny old game Football !!"
Lets see what happens  against Doncaster Rovers Monday
UTM

I am sure Hurst does not read the Fishy, thankfully. He doesn’t need to as experience tells me he gets all the feedback he needs from the Main Stand.

As I said on another post yes he got selection wrong yesterday but at HT we were in the game and after the break levelled the score.

Poor decision making on the pitch cost us yesterday as much as poor selection off it and the manager can’t be held responsible for players doing greedy, mentally lazy,  selfish and stupid things during the game.

Paul will have a plan for next season and if he can get the level of player he wants we’ll be competitive.

Feel that Hurst has done a great job since he's come back, tho no one's immune from criticism when it's due and yesterday was a shocker..

I expect to at least be entertained in some of the home games and this season has been a real chore to go to BP most weeks..

Was hoping after the cup run the most important thing was to finish the season strongly with the home games especially, well four left to go at home to put things right..

We're not a million miles off. Stick to what we're doing away from home. The lack of home wins is oft mentioned, but we've only lost 6 at home, same as clubs in the playoffs. We draw too many home. So we obviously need to chance our arm a bit more. I would like to see a genuine no 9 signed ready for pre season, something I don't think Hurst has managed in this spell. We have to score more goals at home. Get BP rocking and the confidence will spill over into away games too.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I am sure Hurst does not read the Fishy, thankfully. He doesn’t need to as experience tells me he gets all the feedback he needs from the Main Stand.

As I said on another post yes he got selection wrong yesterday but at HT we were in the game and after the break levelled the score.

Poor decision making on the pitch cost us yesterday as much as poor selection off it and the manager can’t be held responsible for players doing greedy, mentally lazy,  selfish and stupid things during the game.

Paul will have a plan for next season and if he can get the level of player he wants we’ll be competitive.

I’ve said it all season and I’ll say it again. Our off the ball running is woeful. If you stick either Hunt or Morris in the team, you can’t complain about them passing backwards or sideways because the movement in front of them is non existent.

The only hope is that Lloyd or Taylor can take the ball to feet and then play in the wingers/wing backs but it’s so predictable. There’s only graft about us, no guile. It maybe works when teams come on to us but it’s an awful watch.

Quoted from GrimRob

If we had got knocked out at Cambridge or Luton it would be a very different position to what we're in, but should it be? The league season is the bread and butter. PH is a cautious manager and has never won automatic promotion at any club (I think). He does enough to keep his job. It's very unlikely we get relegated with him. He'll obviously be staying and getting the summer to recruit but I have the horrible feeling that we'll end up in much the same league position next year. Fans will drift away and we'll get sucked downwards again. The next few months are massive. Big decisions to make for all concerned.

Workmanlike and stubborn performances have squeezed out enough points to stay up. If you take away the decent start we had, we've been nigh on in relegation form since. Very rarely have our performances in the league entertained me this season, this has to change to ensure club income levels are maintained or else it's another downward spiral.

There's evidence to suggest that PH can get us relegated with a poor squad and promoted with a half decent one. One miraculous play off campaign apart, Hurst generally achieves a finishing position in the league similar to the quality of the squad he's got. His playing style is horrendous if you want to be entertained and only works from a fan's perspective if the goal of promotion is achieved at the end of the season, or else is it worth sitting through and paying for mind numbing game after mind numbing game?

Say it every summer, but it's a big transfer window coming up. Hopefully PH gets it right or else 1878 are going to have a big decision to make this time next year. Do I trust Hurst enough to get it right? Possibly not. Do I trust him enough to not get us relegated? Yes. Enough trust to push us forward as a club on the pitch with a chance of promotion? I'm wavering, but my hope and goodwill will give him another season before both will begin to wane if next season pans out like this one..

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I am sure Hurst does not read the Fishy, thankfully. He doesn’t need to as experience tells me he gets all the feedback he needs from the Main Stand.

As I said on another post yes he got selection wrong yesterday but at HT we were in the game and after the break levelled the score.

Poor decision making on the pitch cost us yesterday as much as poor selection off it and the manager can’t be held responsible for players doing greedy, mentally lazy,  selfish and stupid things during the game.

Paul will have a plan for next season and if he can get the level of player he wants we’ll be competitive.

Thank you ,
you put in a sentence I could put into words myself you said it for me.."The manager can't be held responsible for etc!"
Next season is another  season !!
UTM

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It's not often I disagree whilst reading one of your posts, but I do with the bit about improving teams  year on year.

I think he swaps one set of players for another; there never seems to be a plan, or a playing style and if you are an attacking wide player don't even think of joining us unless you are a complete workaholic who is happy to sacrifice your skills for tracking back with the rest of the team. This is the basic reason for our shocking home form - everybody is thinking about defending.

On the other side of the coin he has provided some of the greatest ever days in our recent history.  What an enigma he is!

He is the man the owners trust, but he won't be our manager forever and I think he needs to really look at his methods and ethos and come to a conclusion about what exactly he is trying to achieve with how he wants the team to function.

You know in football you are either up or down and he can quickly go from hero to zero if home performances don't improve.

There’s plenty of evidence that, over time, Hurst improves teams and outcomes.

Hurst MkI

11/12 - 11th
12/13 - Play-off semi-final
13/14 - Play-off semi-final (screwed by ref)
14/15 - Play-off final (screwed by ref)
15/16 - Play-off winners

Hurst at Shrewsbury

16/17 - 18th (saved from relegation)
17/18 - Play-off final

Hurst MkII

20-21 - Relegated
21/22 - Play-off winners
22/23 - TBC

There’s no denying that this season’s home form has been dreadful. But Hurst has earned a shot at next season (which he will get) and, patterns suggest, will likely correct it.

I’m not happy with how this league season is looking like ending, but I remain confident and satisfied that we have the right man in the dugout, and at the very least the second best Town manager of my lifetime.

Quoted from Poojah

There’s plenty of evidence that, over time, Hurst improves teams and outcomes.

Hurst MkI

11/12 - 11th
12/13 - Play-off semi-final
13/14 - Play-off semi-final (screwed by ref)
14/15 - Play-off final (screwed by ref)
15/16 - Play-off winners

Hurst at Shrewsbury

16/17 - 18th (saved from relegation)
17/18 - Play-off final

Hurst MkII

20-21 - Relegated
21/22 - Play-off winners
22/23 - TBC

There’s no denying that this season’s home form has been dreadful. But Hurst has earned a shot at next season (which he will get) and, patterns suggest, will likely correct it.

I’m not happy with how this league season is looking like ending, but I remain confident and satisfied that we have the right man in the dugout, and at the very least the second best Town manager of my lifetime.

I think you missed a couple of jobs out

The question of do we want Hurst to continue as manager is irrelevant Jason and Andrew have faith in him and he will be here long term.

We have to hope with the extra cash in his back pocket from the cup run he is able to sign a few better quality players.

We are not too far away from being a team that is aiming for the play offs. Better decisions when marking at set pieces and someone who can score a few goals. Plus the ability to pass the ball better.

Not too much to ask so I expect us to be better equipped next season to challenge near the top rather than low mid table.

Quoted from HerveJosse

I think you missed a couple of jobs out

I included every job Hurst has managed managed into successive seasons since joining Town in 2011, ergo when given time he improves things.

I do t see his short-lived car crash at Ipswich in the Championship as overly relevant to us right now. He is proven at the levels immediately below.

Quoted from Poojah

I included every job Hurst has managed managed into successive seasons since joining Town in 2011, ergo when given time he improves things.

I do t see his short-lived car crash at Ipswich in the Championship as overly relevant to us right now. He is proven at the levels immediately below.

Isn’t that self selecting because in most cases these days you only get a second season if you have improved the team

Quoted from grimsby pete

The question of do we want Hurst to continue as manager is irrelevant Jason and Andrew have faith in him and he will be here long term.

We have to hope with the extra cash in his back pocket from the cup run he is able to sign a few better quality players.

We are not too far away from being a team that is aiming for the play offs. Better decisions when marking at set pieces and someone who can score a few goals. Plus the ability to pass the ball better.

Not too much to ask so I expect us to be better equipped next season to challenge near the top rather than low mid table.

With respect Pete, if you had sat through this season’s home league performances, you’d know that we are miles away. You’ve got to dominate at home and win at least half your home games. We’re on about 20%.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Isn’t that self selecting because in most cases these days you only get a second season if you have improved the team

Not really. There’s no denying his Ipswich record was dismal, irrespective of any mitigating circumstances. Was the Championship a step too far for him? The only evidence available to us right now is ‘yes’.

But to my earlier point, I don’t think that reflects on his capability at the level we are currently at. He was sacked at Scunny not for footballing reasons but rather insubordination - he refused Swann’s request to Benjamin Button the squad. With hindsight, his football record at Glanford Park was perhaps a lot better than it seemed at the time.

There is no question in my mind regarding weather Hurst should carry on as manager. Of course he should. Overall, the positives he has brought to this club far far out weigh the negatives. We are in a position we could only dream about a year ago. However, that doesn't mean he shouldn't come in for criticism.

I went yesterday. It was my younger sons first ever match. I wanted it to be a memorable positive experience for him. The reality was it was horrific. We were awful. The highlight of the day for him appears to be the dead whale on the beach, nothing to do with the football!!

Hurst has to take a massive amount of blame for the selection and tactics yesterday. No idea what the plan or way of playing was supposed to be. However, I don't want him sacked after one poor game, never mind how bad it was. Overall, I still think he has done a great job this season.

However fully understand what many others have said. The home form has to improve. It simply has not been good enough. When thinking about this, I remembered what a mate said at the Bradford match- all of Clifton's league goals have come away from home this season. And I think that says a fair bit about how we set up differently away from home. Most his goals come from making runs beyond the striker- we just don't play like this at home. Slightly off topic, but I also don't understand what Clifton has done wrong to drop out the team- great at Crawley and most creative player at Bradford. I know there is a case for trying new things at this stage of the season, but when your player of the season is under contract for next season, is the top scorer and you are struggling for goals, surely he has to play.

No way we should Hurst and more importantly, no way we will. He's more than capable of building a team to get out of this division but given the resources available it might take time.
Interesting in a recent interview (maybe Hartlepool pre match?) he said he might need to be out of character to pay more in order to get the right people in. That  cheered me up a touch and I jumped to the conclusion that he has specific targets and is planning to get them.
I do think he needs to spend an hour with Ben Stokes who when talking about bazball said something along the lines of "stop thinking were in the business of cricket, we're in the business of entertainment. Also, never let the fear of losing outweigh the joy of winning"

I forgot to put "sack" in between should and Hurst!!

Quoted from HarrogateMariner

There is no question in my mind regarding weather Hurst should carry on as manager. Of course he should. Overall, the positives he has brought to this club far far out weigh the negatives. We are in a position we could only dream about a year ago. However, that doesn't mean he shouldn't come in for criticism.

I went yesterday. It was my younger sons first ever match. I wanted it to be a memorable positive experience for him. The reality was it was horrific. We were awful. The highlight of the day for him appears to be the dead whale on the beach, nothing to do with the football!!

Hurst has to take a massive amount of blame for the selection and tactics yesterday. No idea what the plan or way of playing was supposed to be. However, I don't want him sacked after one poor game, never mind how bad it was. Overall, I still think he has done a great job this season.

However fully understand what many others have said. The home form has to improve. It simply has not been good enough. When thinking about this, I remembered what a mate said at the Bradford match- all of Clifton's league goals have come away from home this season. And I think that says a fair bit about how we set up differently away from home. Most his goals come from making runs beyond the striker- we just don't play like this at home. Slightly off topic, but I also don't understand what Clifton has done wrong to drop out the team- great at Crawley and most creative player at Bradford. I know there is a case for trying new things at this stage of the season, but when your player of the season is under contract for next season, is the top scorer and you are struggling for goals, surely he has to play.

Agree, so can only think Hurst wanted some rest for Clifton.

Quoted from buckstown

No way we should Hurst and more importantly, no way we will. He's more than capable of building a team to get out of this division but given the resources available it might take time.
Interesting in a recent interview (maybe Hartlepool pre match?) he said he might need to be out of character to pay more in order to get the right people in. That  cheered me up a touch and I jumped to the conclusion that he has specific targets and is planning to get them.
I do think he needs to spend an hour with Ben Stokes who when talking about bazball said something along the lines of "stop thinking were in the business of cricket, we're in the business of entertainment. Also, never let the fear of losing outweigh the joy of winning"

I’m not sure what goes on at training but I sometimes wonder what holds them back. It always looks like if there’s a choice between two players, he (or he and Doig) will go with the ‘safer’ option.

Paul can’t be too worried about player fatigue they’ve been in training today.

Clifton's been managing a knock for weeks which is why he's been in and out of the team, and not really hitting his early season form when he has played recently.

[quote=491]

Ok then, should we sack him?[/quote

If we want to progress we need a forward thinking manager who’s career is on the up.  One who knows his best team and encourages his team to entertain.  It would be harsh to sack him at this stage, but he needs to be set very clear targets and possibly given reign to appoint an attacking coach.

Quoted from GrimRob

If we had got knocked out at Cambridge or Luton it would be a very different position to what we're in, but should it be? The league season is the bread and butter. PH is a cautious manager and has never won automatic promotion at any club (I think). He does enough to keep his job. It's very unlikely we get relegated with him. He'll obviously be staying and getting the summer to recruit but I have the horrible feeling that we'll end up in much the same league position next year. Fans will drift away and we'll get sucked downwards again. The next few months are massive. Big decisions to make for all concerned.

Spot on.

Quoted from TheFryingSquad

[quote=491]

Ok then, should we sack him?[/quote

If we want to progress we need a forward thinking manager who’s career is on the up.  One who knows his best team and encourages his team to entertain.  It would be harsh to sack him at this stage, but he needs to be set very clear targets and possibly given reign to appoint an attacking coach.

How many more coaches do we need. We'll soon have more chiefs than Indians.

For those who are peddling the hypothetical "if we had got knocked out of the cup earlier, then this has been a rubbish season" scenario, we should pay equal consideration to the equally hypothetical idea that, had we got knocked out of the cup earlier, we might have been able to put more emotional/physical energy into the league campaign, and could quite possibly still be in with a sniff of the play-offs.

If you're peddling hypotheticals you can't consider one possible outcome without at least acknowledging the other...

In or out ?
Is I want to be entertained allowed to feature in the debate or is it just about grinding out a result to survive.?

I appreciate yesterday was disgraceful but I'm surprised by the negativity towards Hurst. I've never been his biggest fan (well not since the partnership with Scott) but I've been impressed this season and not just with the cup run.
I've got my eye on you for next season (not what long term members of this board want to read) and was looking forward to an exciting summer with cash to splash on transfers.
Anyway let's hope the team put in a better performance at Donny. UTM!

The only thing I trust Hurst to do is to only attack with 3 players in open play, to sign 8 midfielders with all the same traits, and to somehow find a really good LB in the January transfer window.

Not sure what people expected. We were awful for a large portion of last season, limped into the playoffs and had an absolutely incredible run of one off events that got us promoted and we'll probably never see anything like that again. Without that end, it'd have been a disappointing season.

We have the large majority of that squad playing this season, so it shouldn't be any surprise that it's a disappointing season. It was obvious it was coming. Yet somehow we've managed to have another ridiculous once in a lifetime run in the FA Cup which again makes this season seem better than it really has been.

We showed no ambition in the summer or January. Whether that was Hurst or the budget is difficult to decipher. Hurst shouldn't be sacked. Be it fluke or not, he's just as responsible for the good things as bad. But next season we need to be better than also rans or else things will start to get tetchy again. Goodwill doesn't last forever and the football is shite

I'm currently at the past caring stage. Every season seems to include a conversation about the next transfer window being "the one that will take us to the next level", and it never materialises.

2004 since we looked like getting out of this league upwards instead of downward.

I wasn't a PH fan for a long time in his first spell, but he won me over eventually and I have been a supporter of his since. I didn't call for his head last winter when many were saying he should go, and to his credit, he justified that by winning the play offs.

I'm now starting to creep back the other way, and all the things I didn't like about him in his first spell, are starting to annoy me again.

I'm currently at the stage where I will need a lot of convincing to invest in a season ticket for the 23/24 season. I wouldn't mind us losing 4-1 now and again if we actually won a few by the same score. I currently can't see us creating four decent chances in a game, never mind scoring four.

We only just managed to beat Rochdale at home by one goal and they are worse than Hartlepool.

People saying it's ok we finish 18th then recruit well in the summer and go for it next year .Because of our past 20 years young players see us as what we have become a league 2 ,NL yo-yo club .Finishing 18th will do nothing to dispel that belief .Unless being paid much more than clubs who just miss out on promotion do you honestly believe players would want to come to a club that have just saved themselves from relegation again

Hurst has credit in the bank and rightly so for reversing the mess that he inherited. Consolidating our position in the EFL is what we needed, as much as everyone wanted more.

Clearly there are areas for improvement to allow us to kick on, even Hurst knows that. These results happen very rarely under him, and everyone is due a bad day at the office from time to time.

Recruitment needs to be a bit slicker than in previous years. Last year we obviously had a quick turn around which I think will have made a difference to our ability to tap into that early market movement.

This year is, and should be different. I would like to see us build on the fact that we can all reasonably assume we’ll be in League 2 next year, and have our squad more or less in place by the second week of pre season.

Hurst took us Down after brining lots of his own players in,12 was it.

Based on this squad he’s assembled, it looks a mess, but for a very lucky spell now in the history books. What do you think a replacement manager would say about his squad?

Simply he has not built on the momentum and boundless good will and money that should have been available.End off.

Don’t disagree he should get another crack though.

Quoted from TheFryingSquad

You are correct of course, 11 losses, 1 draw and 2 wins from 14 consecutive games, impressive stuff.  Thankfully Wrexham, Notts County and Solihull all managed to implode in the play-offs.  I have no issue with you holding an opposing view to mine and of course yes, selective use of statistics can be misleading, but reality is this:  Paul Hurst has had one single period during a managerial career, dating back to 2013 as a sole manager, where he managed a club outside of the bottom tier/non-league, with any glimmer of consistency.  That of course was Shrewsbury, where predictably they fell away when it really mattered.

The stats you've used are also a little selective though. By business end of the season, I've taken that to mean the run in and the final games of the season, not the middle of it. You've quoted 14 consecutive games, so I've done the final 14 league games of last season where the stats are W-7, D-4, L-3. This is then followed by the Play-Off games which ultimately read WWW once the ties were settled.

There's no denying that with a much improved middle part of the season where the picture you've painted was true then we may have finished higher but without going back to check the points differential I'd doubt would be enough to claim top spot. But the situation would be the same in that we'd have gone the play off route and what's to say that a different scenario (in terms of opposition played in POs) may have yielded a different result? There's a certain part of me that believes things happen for a reason.

One of the reasons I'm a fan of PH is because of his consistency. You know exactly what you are going to get. His football is not necessarily 'get you off your feet', 90 minutes of pure entertaining bliss football. It's pragmatic and measured, being honest and realistic about what he can achieve with the players available to him in his budget range. It can often make things far less than perfect and we do get the complete backfires from time to time, Hartlepool being right up there with the worst of them. But the flip side is it sometimes pays off, see the Play Offs and Cup run this season, Northampton away, Crewe away.

What you're also likely to get though is progression, however steady or slowly but he rarely takes a team backwards under his tenure. There have been times when he hasn't got the wheel turning like Ipswich and Scunthorpe which we happen to know had issues behind the scenes of their own which no doubt didn't help him.

Since Alan Buckley, how many managers can you look back on and say with confidence they have consistently driven the club forward in every aspect they can control? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

There are thousands of football managers out there who we could take a punt on, a very small few might get instant results and progress us rapidly, but at some point they will reach a plateau or be cherry picked by clubs higher up. The majority of coaches would probably see us tread water or even see us reverse. I was buzzing with Holloways appointment but for me he's up on the list of worst managers we've had come the end, currently topped by Nicky Law.

At a time when we're still very fresh in the hands of new owners who are working to rebuild the club, a manager who can maintain consistency and offer steady, incremental improvements is - in my opinion - a better option than jumping on the management merry-go-round and seeing what happens. Inevitably there will come a time when a change is either needed or enforced upon us but for now, frustrating as one week can be followed by a glorious week the next and the whole rollercoaster in between it I think PH is still the man to take us forward.

Quoted from Simon

Can't see how anyone can defend him after that yesterday, set up wrong from the start and before a ball was kicked the fans, radio pundits and probably players were confused and questioning the tactics employed against a team second bottom and lacking in confidence

I would have had more respect for Hurst if he had gone on the radio and put his hands up and admitted he got it wrong, but no he as i expected watched a completely different game to the other 7400 in the ground

The new owners have so far had it all their own way but the fans have been let down this year and i fear will leave in droves next season by not renewing season tickets

Bitterly disappointing end to a season  

That for me is where opinion and fact live opposite sides of a huge grey area of subjectivity.

It is an opinion that the setup was wrong and the fact that we lost 4-1 provides evidence for those holding that opinion that they were right, or that the opinion is right.

It's a pointless argument for anyone to make that if we had won the game 4-1 (or any scoreline) then fans would be hailing PH for a tactical masterstroke or at the very least we wouldn't have this catastrophic thinking and the world would keep turning. It's a pointless argument because the fact is it didn't happen so the opinion can't be verified.

But this also works in reverse. The opinion that a more attacking line up would have yielded results has no basis of fact to prove it so will forever remain an opinion.

My subjective view is that the setup didn't really affect the outcome of the result. At half time we were 1-0 down. We went to a more attacking line up and lost the second half 3-1 and played even worse than we did in the first, save a 10 minute spell where we did look good.

Without suggesting that formations and specific instructions don't impact the game (because they can), they're only as beneficial as the quality of the player on the ball and the movement of players off the ball at any given time. Against Hartlepool, everything was simply poor in both those circumstances. We could have played any formation known to man and I don't believe it would have made a difference. The formation doesn't legislate for Efete making a daft challenge and the ref awarding it as a pen rather than a free kick.

If we factor in the idea that momentum can swing games, than that penalty noticeably took the wind out of our sails and the players never recovered, which does not owe to the formation, simply the players not being up to it on the day. Hartlepool are fighting for their survival, were backed by great fans (credit given wherever it is due) and played with more intensity than our players did and showed quite clearly they wanted it more than we did. That for me is why we lost the game and why in another thread I've said the blame for the poor show yesterday lies squarely with the players.7

Also worth noting that Hartlepool hadn't lost in 6 before us, drawing 5 (including Northampton, Bradford and Leyton Orient) and a win against Swindon. Not sure that they were low on confidence.

12 months ago everybody on here would have taken a mid/lower place in League 2. That is what we have.

Wrexham, Chesterfield, Notts Cty and particularly Iron fans look up to us in envy. After years of under-investment, we are a job in progress, not a finished article. We have good owners and Hurst is a well-respected manager.

You could tell from the way Hurst spoke after the Hartlepool game he was not a happy man. He's not known for criticising players in public but I wouldn't have minded being a fly on the wall at Cheapside yesterday.

Critise Hurst as much as you like but it was his man management and tactics that have got us to where we are today in LEAGUE 2. Yes, things have to change and evolve and Hurst has said previously that he wants a striker and he surely knows the weakness of his squad.

You could tell from his comments at the forum he was disappointed at not bringing in the players he wanted in January; also JS & AP had a reality check that the football business is not like any other type of business. Even Sir Alan Sugar said he wished he had never got involved with Spurs.

So it is " In Hurst I Trust".

Quoted from pen penfras

Not sure what people expected. We were awful for a large portion of last season, limped into the playoffs and had an absolutely incredible run of one off events that got us promoted and we'll probably never see anything like that again. Without that end, it'd have been a disappointing season.

We have the large majority of that squad playing this season, so it shouldn't be any surprise that it's a disappointing season. It was obvious it was coming. Yet somehow we've managed to have another ridiculous once in a lifetime run in the FA Cup which again makes this season seem better than it really has been.

We showed no ambition in the summer or January. Whether that was Hurst or the budget is difficult to decipher. Hurst shouldn't be sacked. Be it fluke or not, he's just as responsible for the good things as bad. But next season we need to be better than also rans or else things will start to get tetchy again. Goodwill doesn't last forever and the football is shite

OMG, what do you not understand about getting your targets in the transfer windows?  I was explaining this all through the January window, but briefly, it's not a shop where you see what you want and take it off the shelf and pay at the check out.  There is at least one other person to take into account, the player!  I'm not going to explain it all again, but really, it's not rocket science.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

The stats you've used are also a little selective though. By business end of the season, I've taken that to mean the run in and the final games of the season, not the middle of it. You've quoted 14 consecutive games, so I've done the final 14 league games of last season where the stats are W-7, D-4, L-3. This is then followed by the Play-Off games which ultimately read WWW once the ties were settled.

There's no denying that with a much improved middle part of the season where the picture you've painted was true then we may have finished higher but without going back to check the points differential I'd doubt would be enough to claim top spot. But the situation would be the same in that we'd have gone the play off route and what's to say that a different scenario (in terms of opposition played in POs) may have yielded a different result? There's a certain part of me that believes things happen for a reason.

One of the reasons I'm a fan of PH is because of his consistency. You know exactly what you are going to get. His football is not necessarily 'get you off your feet', 90 minutes of pure entertaining bliss football. It's pragmatic and measured, being honest and realistic about what he can achieve with the players available to him in his budget range. It can often make things far less than perfect and we do get the complete backfires from time to time, Hartlepool being right up there with the worst of them. But the flip side is it sometimes pays off, see the Play Offs and Cup run this season, Northampton away, Crewe away.

What you're also likely to get though is progression, however steady or slowly but he rarely takes a team backwards under his tenure. There have been times when he hasn't got the wheel turning like Ipswich and Scunthorpe which we happen to know had issues behind the scenes of their own which no doubt didn't help him.

Since Alan Buckley, how many managers can you look back on and say with confidence they have consistently driven the club forward in every aspect they can control? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

There are thousands of football managers out there who we could take a punt on, a very small few might get instant results and progress us rapidly, but at some point they will reach a plateau or be cherry picked by clubs higher up. The majority of coaches would probably see us tread water or even see us reverse. I was buzzing with Holloways appointment but for me he's up on the list of worst managers we've had come the end, currently topped by Nicky Law.

At a time when we're still very fresh in the hands of new owners who are working to rebuild the club, a manager who can maintain consistency and offer steady, incremental improvements is - in my opinion - a better option than jumping on the management merry-go-round and seeing what happens. Inevitably there will come a time when a change is either needed or enforced upon us but for now, frustrating as one week can be followed by a glorious week the next and the whole rollercoaster in between it I think PH is still the man to take us forward.

My reference to selective use of statistics was an admission that I had done precisely that.  I think we need to agree to disagree on the remainder of your post though, I just don’t think he has what it takes, he hasn’t managed to build a balanced squad yet.  But hey, we’re entitled to our respective opinions and haven’t resorted to childish abuse. 👏

Quoted from ginnywings

I'm currently at the past caring stage. Every season seems to include a conversation about the next transfer window being "the one that will take us to the next level", and it never materialises.

2004 since we looked like getting out of this league upwards instead of downward.

I wasn't a PH fan for a long time in his first spell, but he won me over eventually and I have been a supporter of his since. I didn't call for his head last winter when many were saying he should go, and to his credit, he justified that by winning the play offs.

I'm now starting to creep back the other way, and all the things I didn't like about him in his first spell, are starting to annoy me again.

I'm currently at the stage where I will need a lot of convincing to invest in a season ticket for the 23/24 season. I wouldn't mind us losing 4-1 now and again if we actually won a few by the same score. I currently can't see us creating four decent chances in a game, never mind scoring four.

We only just managed to beat Rochdale at home by one goal and they are worse than Hartlepool.

I don’t have the historic Hurst doubt you’ve had at times but I’m getting there, I can’t see what we’ve been trying to do on the pitch this season and some of the behaviours & decision making resemble a manager in a relegation mind set, either paralysed by fear or over complicating simple things.

Even in the past when we’ve had a bad run we’ve rarely been out worked and out fought that was something you could rely on if nothing else but I’m not even convinced about that any longer.

Hurst’s teams have always had good spirit & unity but at the moment only Maher seems to do any talking on the pitch, actually that’s not right McAtee seems to talk a lot, wave his hands about and I suspect say very little. Waterfall seems to be back in his Holloway shell, but we do see players calling for the ball but not getting it.

The football is dross, we get ourselves in decent offensive positions and the delivery is shocking or the only person in the zone is the invisible man, and don’t forget McAtee who’s game has turned into pot shot self indulgence. Also when we concede the keeper (who needs to go IMHO) waves his arms around and the players just go slopey shoulders and we’ll back to the re-start, clearly they’re getting confused between the centre circle and the departure gate.

After so many games this season yes you need to rotate a bit I’m sure but we seem to have a Saturday & Tuesday team just like a British Lions rugby tour, and a different shape and game plan for each.

If you look at the performances they’re poor, individually and collectively. There has been some cup highlights such as Plymouth & Luton but neither of those sides were up for it in reality.

I’ll almost certainly buy a season ticket as I know my dad will and going to games is the only time he really gets out of the house now, but that’s a bigger factor than being attracted to the football.

I think it’s fair to say a large proportion of our players are decent at NL level but TBC at EFL level. You can just tell that by our poor passing & movement.

We’ll not go down but I think it will be due to others losing points than us gaining points between now and the final day.

The manager has said he has a decent budget for next season, he also has an assistant, a coach, a keeper coach who also gets the book out when we bring on a sub 🙄, an analyst, S&C specialist, the lad who helps England out, Dave as physio and Giles Coke helping with supporting the players. Add to that a kit man (vacancy) and a head of recruitment. It’s getting to the stage where the players could play the staff in an 11 a side if we’re short of games.

1878 are supportive, hopefully it’s not blind faith but the time has to be this coming season for Paul as no other manager that I can recall this century has had the level of support he now has at his disposal.

Quoted from DB

12 months ago everybody on here would have taken a mid/lower place in League 2. That is what we have.

Wrexham, Chesterfield, Notts Cty and particularly Iron fans look up to us in envy. After years of under-investment, we are a job in progress, not a finished article. We have good owners and Hurst is a well-respected manager.

You could tell from the way Hurst spoke after the Hartlepool game he was not a happy man. He's not known for criticising players in public but I wouldn't have minded being a fly on the wall at Cheapside yesterday.

Critise Hurst as much as you like but it was his man management and tactics that have got us to where we are today in LEAGUE 2. Yes, things have to change and evolve and Hurst has said previously that he wants a striker and he surely knows the weakness of his squad.

You could tell from his comments at the forum he was disappointed at not bringing in the players he wanted in January; also JS & AP had a reality check that the football business is not like any other type of business. Even Sir Alan Sugar said he wished he had never got involved with Spurs.

So it is " In Hurst I Trust".

You can't run a football club on this kind of sentiment. We were on zero points like the rest of the teams in League Two last August. Finishing in the lower third will not help us in the slightest recruitment wise in the summer, it will slow down the development of our squad if we're trying to be progressive. 1878 will be disappointed, PH will be disappointed, the players will be disappointed, so let the fans be disappointed too rather than just being grateful that we're not x, y or z.

Along the years we could have looked at Brighton, Bournemouth, Luton etc etc and said to ourselves, we may be shite but we haven't got the troubles they have. Wrexham and Notts aren't gonna come up next season, finish 18th and thank their lucky stars they're not Chesterfield. It's a very weak mentality to have..

Quoted from 123614

OMG, what do you not understand about getting your targets in the transfer windows?  I was explaining this all through the January window, but briefly, it's not a shop where you see what you want and take it off the shelf and pay at the check out.  There is at least one other person to take into account, the player!  I'm not going to explain it all again, but really, it's not rocket science.

I was a bit worried when PH said before Hartlepool that “we’ve realised we need to pay more in certain positions” or something similar.

It is often the case that players look limited, not good enough or confused with the inevitable loss of confidence and downward spiral under one manager and completly different under a new one . At our level Askeys impact on Hartlepool is a recent example in the prem villas transformation under Emry particularly Watkin’s and in championship the 70 year old Warnock on Huddersfield
Before we bin this squad of players off under Hurst and build from scratch again I wonder what impact the alternative approach woukd have on some of those who looked lost on Saturday.

Quoted from Bigdog

You can't run a football club on this kind of sentiment. We were on zero points like the rest of the teams in League Two last August. Finishing in the lower third will not help us in the slightest recruitment wise in the summer, it will slow down the development of our squad if we're trying to be progressive. 1878 will be disappointed, PH will be disappointed, the players will be disappointed, so let the fans be disappointed too rather than just being grateful that we're not x, y or z.

Along the years we could have looked at Brighton, Bournemouth, Luton etc etc and said to ourselves, we may be shite but we haven't got the troubles they have. Wrexham and Notts aren't gonna come up next season, finish 18th and thank their lucky stars they're not Chesterfield. It's a very weak mentality to have..

You have my sympathy as it reads as if you're depressed. Brighton and Bournemouth are both in the prem and it looks like Luton may join them. Let's hope Hurst gets us out of this league next season.

Quoted from DB

You have my sympathy as it reads as if you're depressed. Brighton and Bournemouth are both in the prem and it looks like Luton may join them. Let's hope Hurst gets us out of this league next season.

The only way Hurst will get us out of this league is through relegation, be careful what you wish for.

I would say that the length of this thread has led quite a few to stray into the realms of overstatement and alarmism.

Quoted from chaos33

I would say that the length of this thread has led quite a few to stray into the realms of overstatement and alarmism.

Given the tone of his interview post match, he was furious and rightly so, but it might be worth pointing out that our home form is abysmal and many diehard fans, myself included, are turning up with little expectation of being entertained.

We don’t get on the front foot, we wait for teams to come on to us and try to pick them off and most are wise to it. People moan about the lack of atmosphere at BP and there’s very little wonder why it’s the case.

Home performances have been pretty dull apart from cup games where ‘better’ teams have gone at us first.

Quoted from DB

You have my sympathy as it reads as if you're depressed. Brighton and Bournemouth are both in the prem and it looks like Luton may join them. Let's hope Hurst gets us out of this league next season.

I'm actually not.. but.. I really don't think depression is a subject to make fun about. We've had several serious threads on here about it, one ongoing. You need to reign it in a bit sometimes, you can get a bit full of yourself..

As for back at training maybe the could practice passing it to each other.

Quoted from 123614

OMG, what do you not understand about getting your targets in the transfer windows?  I was explaining this all through the January window, but briefly, it's not a shop where you see what you want and take it off the shelf and pay at the check out.  There is at least one other person to take into account, the player!  I'm not going to explain it all again, but really, it's not rocket science.

I get what you are saying about the complexities of "getting a transfer" done, but in reality, up to now GTFCs starting position has been from not paying the going rate. Im assuming this from Hursts comment the other day about realising that players want more money nowadays and maybe they'll have to start paying a bit more. It's all well and good being sustainable and having a wage structure in place that a manager refuses to break, but, that then dictates the standard of player you are shopping for and explains why we are signing folk so late in the transfer window. What do us fans want? A club who's willing to spend more and risk getting success or a club who are tight with money and are happy for league survival and hope for football fortune? In a way its worked this season with the cup run but isn't going to get us anywhere near the playoffs. It is Hursts best and worst trait, will he break it to have a go or not? Can he break it? Would it break him to go against his instincts. Really, this next season is his best oppurtunity to actually let the shackles off, money from cup run, largest season ticket numbers for decades and new owners who appear to understand how a successful business is run.

Quoted from kevikov

I get what you are saying about the complexities of "getting a transfer" done, but in reality, up to now GTFCs starting position has been from not paying the going rate. Im assuming this from Hursts comment the other day about realising that players want more money nowadays and maybe they'll have to start paying a bit more. It's all well and good being sustainable and having a wage structure in place that a manager refuses to break, but, that then dictates the standard of player you are shopping for and explains why we are signing folk so late in the transfer window. What do us fans want? A club who's willing to spend more and risk getting success or a club who are tight with money and are happy for league survival and hope for football fortune? In a way its worked this season with the cup run but isn't going to get us anywhere near the playoffs. It is Hursts best and worst trait, will he break it to have a go or not? Can he break it? Would it break him to go against his instincts. Really, this next season is his best oppurtunity to actually let the shackles off, money from cup run, largest season ticket numbers for decades and new owners who appear to understand how a successful business is run.

It was obvious we were getting turned down by not only our first choice, but several names down the list because we would not pay the going rate. Some seemed to prefer the narrative they won't come to Grimsby blah blah; dead right they won't if they get paid better wages elsewhere!

It is good that the club and more particularly Hurst have seen the light on this fundamental but like you I worry if a leopard can change it's spots.  I have said in jest before it is like Hurst is spending his own money, and I am not sure whether his  personality will relish trying to match clubs financially for players when wages will usually be top of a players list.

Nobody is talking about paying over the odds, just the going rate for better players to give us a better chance of signing them. They still might not choose us of course if they are in demand, but at least we are likely to get a hearing.

All supposition.

We either continue to keep our salary as low as we can and struggle to get up the league.

OR

Pay a.bit more to get out 1st choice players in early instead of waiting to see what's left.

As fans I would imagine we would not mind paying a few quid more for a ticket if we could see we have signed better quality players on a higher salary.

Quoted from Bigdog

I'm actually not.. but.. I really don't think depression is a subject to make fun about. We've had several serious threads on here about it, one ongoing. You need to reign it in a bit sometimes, you can get a bit full of yourself..

I was not poking fun at you but being perfectly serious. Many people don't realise they are getting depressed until it's too late and then have full-on depression.

If you had bothered to read my posts on here, especially the Mental Heath thread on the non-football site, you would find that I, and others, have put ourselves forward to try to help others in need.

It is not about ego or being "Full on", as you put it, but about a deep concern for not only fellow Mariner supporters but all those who suffer from depression. So if anybody on here is feeling down or depressed please feel free to send me a PM at any time.

Quoted from kevikov

I get what you are saying about the complexities of "getting a transfer" done, but in reality, up to now GTFCs starting position has been from not paying the going rate. Im assuming this from Hursts comment the other day about realising that players want more money nowadays and maybe they'll have to start paying a bit more. It's all well and good being sustainable and having a wage structure in place that a manager refuses to break, but, that then dictates the standard of player you are shopping for and explains why we are signing folk so late in the transfer window. What do us fans want? A club who's willing to spend more and risk getting success or a club who are tight with money and are happy for league survival and hope for football fortune? In a way its worked this season with the cup run but isn't going to get us anywhere near the playoffs. It is Hursts best and worst trait, will he break it to have a go or not? Can he break it? Would it break him to go against his instincts. Really, this next season is his best oppurtunity to actually let the shackles off, money from cup run, largest season ticket numbers for decades and new owners who appear to understand how a successful business is run.

The thing is, if we bring in a new player on a significantly higher wage than the rest of the team, is that not going to cause some unrest?  Before long player x will want more money, then player y will also, you see where I'm going?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It was obvious we were getting turned down by not only our first choice, but several names down the list because we would not pay the going rate. Some seemed to prefer the narrative they won't come to Grimsby blah blah; dead right they won't if they get paid better wages elsewhere!

It is good that the club and more particularly Hurst have seen the light on this fundamental but like you I worry if a leopard can change it's spots.  I have said in jest before it is like Hurst is spending his own money, and I am not sure whether his  personality will relish trying to match clubs financially for players when wages will usually be top of a players list.

Nobody is talking about paying over the odds, just the going rate for better players to give us a better chance of signing them. They still might not choose us of course if they are in demand, but at least we are likely to get a hearing.

I think Hurst pretty much admitted we need to pay better in his pre Hartlepool press interview where he talked about paying more in certain positions. The penny has dropped by the look of it, or is it just that we’ve got some money to spend for once.

I also don’t doubt that some players didn’t want to sign for us based upon our reputation in the Fenty years and that Grimsby is a “challenged” environment.

As for everyone being on similar money then if we’re trying to do that then we’ll be the exception and not the norm as it’s an accepted factor of the game that better players get paid more, as long as they are the better players that is.

Let’s see what the summer brings, at the very least my expectation is we bring in better players who have decent injury records and good EFL experience. Oh yeah and before the end of July and not on the final day of the window.

Quoted from 123614

The thing is, if we bring in a new player on a significantly higher wage than the rest of the team, is that not going to cause some unrest?  Before long player x will want more money, then player y will also, you see where I'm going?

Yep agree entirely. We’ve set the bar so low that any new players coming in are required to lower their wage expectations to suit. It appears our first choice players are not prepared to do that. We will have to raise the going rate in the squad to attract a  better standard of new players. Or keep the status quo and accept the current standard.

Quoted from 123614

The thing is, if we bring in a new player on a significantly higher wage than the rest of the team, is that not going to cause some unrest?  Before long player x will want more money, then player y will also, you see where I'm going?

Doesn't seem to be harming Wrexham, among others.

Quoted from ginnywings

Doesn't seem to be harming Wrexham, among others.

Well they have a billionaire owner, I wouldn't be surprised if all their players where on top wages.