Jesus Christ

Quoted from Sandford1981

A note of caution on Josephus, as an historian, he was something of a puzzle. On the one hand, he's an ‘eyewitness’  to many of these supposed events that took place. In many cases, he's the only source we have for some very important events and stories. Josephus was known to embellish as do most ancient historians. They tell a story.

Unfortunately in those days written communication and records were limited to the educated few and scribes. We can only rely upon this evidence as that of the words of Josephus. Certainly St Peter did exist so you can trace him back to Jesus Christ. Jesus lived many years ago and apart from the scriptures their is little other written evidence, so reading what Josephus says adds to the proof of the life of Jesus Christ.

Quoted from DB

Unfortunately in those days written communication and records were limited to the educated few and scribes. We can only rely upon this evidence as that of the words of Josephus. Certainly St Peter did exist so you can trace him back to Jesus Christ. Jesus lived many years ago and apart from the scriptures their is little other written evidence, so reading what Josephus says adds to the proof of the life of Jesus Christ.

I’m playing devils advocate a little here but it didn’t take much reading to find those questioning Josephus’s credibility. Of course all evidence should be scrutinised if it’s to be taken as proof of something.

To be clear, so long as it’s not harm doing, I don’t think anyone has to justify their faith to anyone but for the purpose of discussion and educating myself (especially as someone without faith) I find the argument and counter argument fascinating.

Quoted from Sandford1981

I’m playing devils advocate a little here but it didn’t take much reading to find those questioning Josephus’s credibility. Of course all evidence should be scrutinised if it’s to be taken as proof of something.

To be clear, so long as it’s not harm doing, I don’t think anyone has to justify their faith to anyone but for the purpose of discussion and educating myself (especially as someone without faith) I find the argument and counter argument fascinating.

Thing is Sandford look around the world and most cultures/society's have some sort of belief in the divine. Its the atheists that are in the minority .

I respect the fact you have no faith but that could change. Hence what happens if something which science cant explain forces you to change your views. Its not within the realms of impossibility. Without going into detail something similar happened to me as you may know when small. An event very profound and a one off.

Quoted from Rick12

Thing is Sandford look around the world and most cultures/society's have some sort of belief in the divine. Its the atheists that are in the minority .

I respect the fact you have no faith but that could change. Hence what happens if something which science cant explain forces you to change your views. Its not within the realms of impossibility. Without going into detail something similar happened to me as you may know when small. An event very profound and a one off.

I believe a lot of people find religion in answer to to the existential question of purpose. I also believe it helps people face the prospect of death.
I would love to be convinced of religious faith but I am not yet, however, I’m not closed off to any possibility but I do think it’s human nature to ascribe meaning to scenarios and look for reason which may or may not exist.
I do think a lot about spirituality but not within the confines of a particular religion.

I mean lets face it in another 2000 years Karen from facebook may have her own book that people worship as the gospel.

Anything written 2000 years ago must be taken with a pinch of salt, lets face it they must have been fantasists.

Couple of things about the gospels for Rick

Quoted Text

The four canonical gospels were probably written between AD 66 and 110. All four were anonymous (the modern names were added in the 2nd century), almost certainly none were by eyewitnesses, and all are the end-products of long oral and written transmission.

from Wikipedia

and Josephus probably didn't witness anything that Jesus did. It is generally regarded that Jesus, if he did indeed exist, was crucified somewhere between 30 AD and 36 AD. Josephus was born in 37 or 38 AD, so by the time he started writing about the life of Jesus, he had already been dead for at least 20 years.

Quoted Text

Flavius Josephus, original name Joseph Ben Matthias, (born ad 37/38, Jerusalem—died ad 100, Rome), Jewish priest, scholar, and historian who wrote valuable works on the Jewish revolt of 66–70 and on earlier Jewish history.

also from Wikipedia

Quoted from BlackandWhiteBarmy2

Couple of things about the gospels for Rick

Thanks for the links about the gospels. I kind of already knew the basic facts about them. My view of them is they maybe were embellished but were certainly about the words/works of Jesus a radical Jewish preacher. I look at some of them disciples and the impact Jesus had on them must of been awe inspiring .Hence look at the pain they went through in believing in his innate message of doing good and following the divine eg crucified, stoned, clubbed and  burnt to death. Its this passion amongst Jesus's disciples that set the scene for Jesus's  movement that changed the world. There were other Jewish prophets before and after the time of Jesus but none had the lasting legacy Jesus did.

Quoted from Sandford1981

I believe a lot of people find religion in answer to to the existential question of purpose. I also believe it helps people face the prospect of death.
I would love to be convinced of religious faith but I am not yet, however, I’m not closed off to any possibility but I do think it’s human nature to ascribe meaning to scenarios and look for reason which may or may not exist.
I do think a lot about spirituality but not within the confines of a particular religion.

As I have posted I believe in Christianity and not religion. All you have to do is read what Jesus said and did which is what my Christianity is based on. I do not agree with religions be them old time or new life etc. The problems I have is that all religions fall short on Christianity. ie The latest is the C of E want to bring climate change into their church. Nothing wrong with discussing climate change but where did Jesus preach on this?

I think you have to separate Jesus Christ from todays religions who tend to use his name for their own agenda.

Quoted from monkeyboy

I mean lets face it in another 2000 years Karen from facebook may have her own book that people worship as the gospel.

Anything written 2000 years ago must be taken with a pinch of salt, lets face it they must have been fantasists.

Unfortunately I don't do facebook and have never read Karen's (whoever she may be) book so I can't comment on it.

From your historical analogy how far back do you accept history. Obviously not 2,000 years ago so cuts out pre Roman history.
Looking to the future how many people in 2,000 years time would be willing to accept the Nazi's killed around 6 million Jews in their death camps. Humans killing 6 millions humans on purpose, pure fiction. Yet we know it is true.

Quoted from BlackandWhiteBarmy2

Couple of things about the gospels for Rick

from Wikipedia

and Josephus probably didn't witness anything that Jesus did. It is generally regarded that Jesus, if he did indeed exist, was crucified somewhere between 30 AD and 36 AD. Josephus was born in 37 or 38 AD, so by the time he started writing about the life of Jesus, he had already been dead for at least 20 years.

also from Wikipedia

Their is a lot said about how the gospels were written and to our modern world it is strange and odd that, given our technology, we should accept them. You have to remember this that the people in those days did not have social media, mobile phones, landline phones, cameras, e mail, morse code and any other means of communication apart from word of mouth. (Yes I do get 10 or more in a line whisper a sentence and it has changed at the end of it.)