The 'let's keep it all on one thread' thread

A defence made to look silly by 38 year old Kevin Ellison, I hope they are embarrassed and hang their heads in shame. We could have lost that 4-0.. Roll on Tuesday, who knows what we will get. I hope it is 3 points as Akinfenwa will be in town on Sat.

Still too busy trying to pair the new players faces to names to start ranting to be honest...

Quoted from rancido

But it's not individual mistakes, it's a collective approach to the game and specific instructions and roles for the players.
If you mean bringing on new players to change it then that is a fair comment if they still follow the game plan that was discussed.
At the end of the day all the manager can do is prepare a team for a game, point out the oppositions strengths and instruct them how to deal with  this. If they can't follow this then surely they deserve to be blamed by the manager as a collective unit.

He basically said that was an individual lapse in concentration, but it's his job to get a reaction from the players.
I don't buy the once their over the white line it's up to them arguement. It's the managers job to get the players to play for him and the make sure they no their jobs. We've gone from being excellent away to absolutely woeful.

Double training sessions, time in the classroom, blaming players for mistakes and bucket loads of signings seem to have made us worse.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

He basically said that was an individual lapse in concentration, but it's his job to get a reaction from the players.
I don't buy the once their over the white line it's up to them arguement. It's the managers job to get the players to play for him and the make sure they no their jobs. We've gone from being excellent away to absolutely woeful.

Double training sessions, time in the classroom, blaming players for mistakes and bucket loads of signings seem to have made us worse.

So all this training on set pieces and instructing players to adopt a certain role is a waste of time and still the managers fault even when they don't follow his instructions ! Unbelievable!!  MB said that they had specifically trained for the scenario that lead to the goal so it wasn't an individual lapse of concentration , it was a collective lapse. Surely part of the captains role is to ensure that the managers game plan is executed on the pitch, he's not just there to be part of the toss at the start of the gain. If my manager told me to do something and I didn't then it's not my fault , it's his. If a fencing crew are instructed to erect a fence 40 feet long by 6 foot high and they erect one 36 feet long by 8 feet high it's not their fault but the person who instructed them.
Of course it's the managers job to get the best out of the players but is it his fault if they don't do that or listen to how they can do that? Like he said in the interview, if players consistently don't follow instructions then there are others in the squad that will. It may take some time to drill this into the players but I'm sure that eventually the ones that want to succeed will " buy " into his approach. It may be a different style of coaching to what they have been used to but you either evolve and adapt or you fall by the wayside.  

Quoted from rancido

So all this training on set pieces and instructing players to adopt a certain role is a waste of time and still the managers fault even when they don't follow his instructions ! Unbelievable!!  MB said that they had specifically trained for the scenario that lead to the goal so it wasn't an individual lapse of concentration , it was a collective lapse. Surely part of the captains role is to ensure that the managers game plan is executed on the pitch, he's not just there to be part of the toss at the start of the gain. If my manager told me to do something and I didn't then it's not my fault , it's his. If a fencing crew are instructed to erect a fence 40 feet long by 6 foot high and they erect one 36 feet long by 8 feet high it's not their fault but the person who instructed them.
Of course it's the managers job to get the best out of the players but is it his fault if they don't do that or listen to how they can do that? Like he said in the interview, if players consistently don't follow instructions then there are others in the squad that will. It may take some time to drill this into the players but I'm sure that eventually the ones that want to succeed will " buy " into his approach. It may be a different style of coaching to what they have been used to but you either evolve and adapt or you fall by the wayside.  

How is one person losing their man a collective mistake?

If he is really having a problem getting the players to listen and follow instructions then that would suggest a major issue. They are professionals and are all adults. The vast majority of the starters are his signings and should be right on board. Surely if you can't get the people you manage to complete your instructions its your responsibility and your fault.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

How is one person losing their man a collective mistake?

If he is really having a problem getting the players to listen and follow instructions then that would suggest a major issue. They are professionals and are all adults. The vast majority of the starters are his signings and should be right on board. Surely if you can't get the people you manage to complete your instructions its your responsibility and your fault.

If you listen to the interview after about 1 minute MB clearly mentions THREE players and we were set up wrong, that to me seems a collective issue.
If the players don't listen then we do have a problem. As the proverb goes " You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink ". It's amazing how fans will always blame the manage over the players even when the players are clearly at fault. And yes they are professionals and as such should behave, perform  and follow instructions in a professional manner.

Quoted from rancido

If you listen to the interview after about 1 minute MB clearly mentions THREE players and we were set up wrong, that to me seems a collective issue.
If the players don't listen then we do have a problem. As the proverb goes " You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink ". It's amazing how fans will always blame the manage over the players even when the players are clearly at fault. And yes they are professionals and as such should behave, perform  and follow instructions in a professional manner.

Agree. And the fall-out from an error such as that is a breakdown of confidence that has a knock-on effect through the team. Whilst we still have some experience in the side, the balance has shifted towards a younger side and a lack of a leader.

Quoted from rancido

If you listen to the interview after about 1 minute MB clearly mentions THREE players and we were set up wrong, that to me seems a collective issue.
If the players don't listen then we do have a problem. As the proverb goes " You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink ". It's amazing how fans will always blame the manage over the players even when the players are clearly at fault. And yes they are professionals and as such should behave, perform  and follow instructions in a professional manner.

fair enough, I hadn't picked that up, I thought he was blaming Bolarinwa for losing his man.

I have seen us a fair bit under Bignot and I have often felt that the players have lacked direction and not looked like they know their jobs, now the manager is saying this. At Crewe I felt we got a hammering because he left Davies isolated at wingback and didn't change our shape in time. I don't think Davies was out of position, I just don't think he could do the job that was asked of him.

Hopefully he will get it right, but saying the players don't follow his instructions is a complete cop out. Signing loads of players and then blaming them when we lose is worryingly Mike Newell like.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

How is one person losing their man a collective mistake?

If he is really having a problem getting the players to listen and follow instructions then that would suggest a major issue. They are professionals and are all adults. The vast majority of the starters are his signings and should be right on board. Surely if you can't get the people you manage to complete your instructions its your responsibility and your fault.

***** never seemed to have a problem getting his messages across, then and now

Quoted from headingly_mariner

fair enough, I hadn't picked that up, I thought he was blaming Bolarinwa for losing his man.

I have seen us a fair bit under Bignot and I have often felt that the players have lacked direction and not looked like they know their jobs, now the manager is saying this. At Crewe I felt we got a hammering because he left Davies isolated at wingback and didn't change our shape in time. I don't think Davies was out of position, I just don't think he could do the job that was asked of him.

Hopefully he will get it right, but saying the players don't follow his instructions is a complete cop out. Signing loads of players and then blaming them when we lose is worryingly Mike Newell like.

But the manager is saying they do know their jobs but not doing them. I hardly see that as a cop out. The match reports in the GET quote a lot of what MB says in that interview.
1 - " They all know their roles and responsibilities out there "

2 - " I can accept losing, but when you go away from what you've been asked to do, you don't switch on or concentrate, then it's frustrating for a manager because that's our job, to prepare them and make sure they know it "

3 - "They ( the team ) have actually been shown that corner routine. Before you've even got into the game you're 1-0 down"

4 - " You go out on the training field, you give players responsibility and then remind them again just as they go out"

Like I said in an earlier post, the buck stops at the manager but he is obviously trying to prepare the players in all ways possible to achieve a result but if they don't follow instructions what more can he do? As he says " If we can't take on the information that we're giving them, then there are going to have to be changes".
I certainly think the comparison with Newell is completely out of order. At least MB is trying his hardest in trying to prepare the squad and not just cruising along, which the impression I got from Newells' tenure