20 league games under Artell

Today was Artell’s 20th league match as Head Coach. His record…

Won 4
Drawn 8
Lost 8
For 24
Against 37
GD -13
Points 20

Hurst mk2’s final 20 league games as Town manager…

Won 5
Drawn 5
Lost 10
For 23
Against 30
GD -7
Points 20

Discuss…

£380 seems a lot of money for the above.

Been a horror show of a season.

Stark reality is Artell has been a desperately poor appointment, and Hurst left us with a very poor side.

Two basement level managers, operating with a non league squad for a mickey mouse board .....simple as that

I really don’t want to stick the knife into the man anymore because I know he would’ve wanted to been a successful manager for gtfc ,, but he won’t be . It’s obvious to us all , just time to say bye bye .

Quoted from male private Nale

Two basement level managers, operating with a non league squad for a mickey mouse board .....simple as that

Oh do urine off...This board are not mickey mouse at all, they have worked with the trust, not held them to ransome, they have had to bring BP back to some sort of standard after years of neglect and under investment and completely change the working ethos of the club.

Is it that the players are just not good enough, although someone thought they were when signing them, so basically it doesn’t matter whether I’m the manager ( experience, lincs league 40 years ago) or Pep Gaurdiola.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

I really don’t want to stick the knife into the man anymore because I know he would’ve wanted to been a successful manager for gtfc ,, but he won’t be . It’s obvious to us all , just time to say bye bye .

Honestly thought he was the right appointment, but I have to doubt it now, he's slowly losing the fans, and I'm not sure he can get the respect he needed now
The board need to take some blame too, they shouldn't have tied his (or any candidate for that matter) hands behind their backs by forcing the training staff on him..

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Honestly thought he was the right appointment, but I have to doubt it now, he's slowly losing the fans, and I'm not sure he can get the respect he needed now
The board need to take some blame too, they shouldn't have tied his (or any candidate for that matter) hands behind their backs by forcing the training staff on him..

Absolutely. The board have fooked up

Seems like we are bottom feeders whoever the manager is. Gets harder every year. There are not many weak teams in this division. A few years ago they were a lot more and you had to be really bad to go down (and we were) . Chesterfield up next season and the 72 league clubs are as strong as they have been for a long time.

i think if he loses the Bradford game he will be gone.

Quoted from Yoda

i think if he loses the Bradford game he will be gone.

No he wont

They didnt sack him after 2 of the heaviest defeats in the clubs history. They arent gonna do it with 6 games to go

i think if he loses the Bradford game he will be gone.

Repeating stuff, you are.

Quoted from male private Nale

Two basement level managers, operating with a non league squad for a mickey mouse board .....simple as that

You know what you are - the Nadine Dorries of this board.
Pathetically stupid sycophant that everyone mocks.  

Quoted from chaos33

You know what you are - the Nadine Dorries of this board.
Pathetically stupid sycophant that everyone mocks.  

Don't think you can say he is a sycophant.

He’s a Fenty disciple. Like Dorries is with Johnson. Keep up.

Given our appallingly bad showing over the last 2 decades, it is patently obvious that we just cannot attract the better players out there. Good players have options, and we are not at the top of the wish list of any aspiring footballer, so we end up with the make weights.

In the 85 games since we returned to the EFL, we have won a grand total of 24, and consistently have a negative goal difference over a very long time period. We have neither the finances nor the appeal to coax players of any ability to this footballing backwater, and that is what we are.

The club has been in a death spiral for years, desperately trying to cling to football league status, while other sides with seemingly less resources than us turn up week after week and just look better in every department than we do.

We have players who can't control the ball, pass the ball, beat opposition players with skill or nous, and generally look slower in thought and deed than our opponents almost on a weekly basis. We can't even get throw ins and free kicks right. We had three starters today in the spine of the team, who are young loanees with barely any experience of league football. What the fook do we expect to happen when that is allowed to happen, despite our healthy support base?

Most of our squad are non league standard at best and you can see that on the pitch in stark detail every time we step onto the pitch. Teams just let us have the ball, knowing we have little threat and will eventually make a gaffe of such epic proportions, that they will be presented with a guilt edge chance, which is why we concede with almost every opportunity the opposition have.

Is this the fault of Artell? I'm not a fan of his from even before he came here, but we have had countless managers over the years trying desperately to cobble together a winning side from the dregs of what's left after the better resourced and geographically placed teams have had the pick of the better players on offer.

I'm just about done with Town to be honest, and the constant looking forward to the next manager, the next squad, the next season, when the here and now is a never ending round of misery and disappointment.

Fooked off with football and for ever discussing where we go wrong and how we should put it right. Nothing changes does it? Looks like we may bore our way to another relegation in the Woods tradition of drawing countless games because we haven't got the players with the requisite steel, nous and determination to win at all costs.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Honestly thought he was the right appointment, but I have to doubt it now, he's slowly losing the fans, and I'm not sure he can get the respect he needed now
The board need to take some blame too, they shouldn't have tied his (or any candidate for that matter) hands behind their backs by forcing the training staff on him..

He's not slowly losing the fans, he lost them v quickly, it's just some naive ones changed their minds when we went on the unbeaten run. The reason for the unbeaten run was he had the decisions on how we played taken out of his hands.

As we've done that he started to implement more of his own ideas again (back 4 2nd half v Gillingham, pushing full backs further forward (esp Clifton) last couple of games rather than being a solid back 5) plus he's lost rose. The result has been a v quick deterioration again. A

Quoted from chaos33

You know what you are - the Nadine Dorries of this board.
Pathetically stupid sycophant that everyone mocks.  

sycophantic to what or who ? come on Chaos do not use the big words if you don't understand them

Quoted from chaos33

He’s a Fenty disciple. Like Dorries is with a Johnson. Keep up.

Deluded

Quoted from ginnywings

Given our appallingly bad showing over the last 2 decades, it is patently obvious that we just cannot attract the better players out there. Good players have options, and we are not at the top of the wish list of any aspiring footballer, so we end up with the make weights.

In the 85 games since we returned to the EFL, we have won a grand total of 24, and consistently have a negative goal difference over a very long time period. We have neither the finances nor the appeal to coax players of any ability to this footballing backwater, and that is what we are.

The club has been in a death spiral for years, desperately trying to cling to football league status, while other sides with seemingly less resources than us turn up week after week and just look better in every department than we do.

We have players who can't control the ball, pass the ball, beat opposition players with skill or nous, and generally look slower in thought and deed than our opponents almost on a weekly basis. We can't even get throw ins and free kicks right. We had three starters today in the spine of the team, who are young loanees with barely any experience of league football. What the fook do we expect to happen when that is allowed to happen, despite our healthy support base?

Most of our squad are non league standard at best and you can see that on the pitch in stark detail every time we step onto the pitch. Teams just let us have the ball, knowing we have little threat and will eventually make a gaffe of such epic proportions, that they will be presented with a guilt edge chance, which is why we concede with almost every opportunity the opposition have.

Is this the fault of Artell? I'm not a fan of his from even before he came here, but we have had countless managers over the years trying desperately to cobble together a winning side from the dregs of what's left after the better resourced and geographically placed teams have had the pick of the better players on offer.

I'm just about done with Town to be honest, and the constant looking forward to the next manager, the next squad, the next season, when the here and now is a never ending round of misery and disappointment.

Fooked off with football and for ever discussing where we go wrong and how we should put it right. Nothing changes does it? Looks like we may bore our way to another relegation in the Woods tradition of drawing countless games because we haven't got the players with the requisite steel, nous and determination to win at all costs.

It's important to have a long term strategy.
It's clear from the accounts that the squad has had investment we just haven't found the right blend.
For us I think we need to be developing our own players and investing in potential where we can.
To be fair I think that is part of the plan, the investment in training facilities will hopefully help the youth set up. I also think the club will have a decent reputation for looking after players.

I'm not sure Artell is the man for the managers job though. Hope I'm wrong.

After a 6 game unbeaten run (which we should have had more points from were it not for some absolutely shocking officiating), we then lose a mere two games on the bounce against teams right at the top of the table and this board goes into meltdown again. Typical. There are some on here who clearly just hate Artell, and will gleefully delight in any defeat as it allows them to stick the knife in again.

Overcomplicating it. We had a competitive budget but signed one of the worst squads in 20 years . Most were signed early so not lat minute decisions and most were given longer contracts then normal for EFL league 2 . None of this is Artells fault whether or not he has done better or worse then could be expected with the hand he was played . The fault lies with the summer recruitment and all responsible  for that need to be gone whoever they are

Quoted from ginnywings

Given our appallingly bad showing over the last 2 decades, it is patently obvious that we just cannot attract the better players out there. Good players have options, and we are not at the top of the wish list of any aspiring footballer, so we end up with the make weights.

In the 85 games since we returned to the EFL, we have won a grand total of 24, and consistently have a negative goal difference over a very long time period. We have neither the finances nor the appeal to coax players of any ability to this footballing backwater, and that is what we are.

The club has been in a death spiral for years, desperately trying to cling to football league status, while other sides with seemingly less resources than us turn up week after week and just look better in every department than we do.

We have players who can't control the ball, pass the ball, beat opposition players with skill or nous, and generally look slower in thought and deed than our opponents almost on a weekly basis. We can't even get throw ins and free kicks right. We had three starters today in the spine of the team, who are young loanees with barely any experience of league football. What the fook do we expect to happen when that is allowed to happen, despite our healthy support base?

Most of our squad are non league standard at best and you can see that on the pitch in stark detail every time we step onto the pitch. Teams just let us have the ball, knowing we have little threat and will eventually make a gaffe of such epic proportions, that they will be presented with a guilt edge chance, which is why we concede with almost every opportunity the opposition have.

Is this the fault of Artell? I'm not a fan of his from even before he came here, but we have had countless managers over the years trying desperately to cobble together a winning side from the dregs of what's left after the better resourced and geographically placed teams have had the pick of the better players on offer.

I'm just about done with Town to be honest, and the constant looking forward to the next manager, the next squad, the next season, when the here and now is a never ending round of misery and disappointment.

Fooked off with football and for ever discussing where we go wrong and how we should put it right. Nothing changes does it? Looks like we may bore our way to another relegation in the Woods tradition of drawing countless games because we haven't got the players with the requisite steel, nous and determination to win at all costs.

Totally agree . Ive been going for 25 years to all the home games and to a fair few away games over the years. The Harrogate game did it for me. I haven't been since and the worrying thing is I don't miss going.

But the same people you're saying to go based on the summer recruitment were here for the Jan recruitment, which was deemed as decent last time I checked.

I think we just have to accept that last summer was a balls up. A major wasted opportunity that we're not getting back. It'll take time to fix that, be it Artell or whoever.

Artell has got tied hands. He brought in one central efender but he wasn't able to bring another in, hence playing someone who failed to simply control and clear the ball for their first goal.

One of his signings dawdling for the second of course, but he's really limited in being able to control individual mistakes once the game starts.

What I would say though is that he got his tactics wrong today. Obikwu too isolated and that narrow midfield exposed us in wide areas. Barrow are a good side and they exploited that big time.

Obikwu reminded me of Darren Mansaram when he had his break through season in the second flight.  Totally isolated, boy against men, body and brain not quite in sync for the professional game yet trying and trying and then some more.

Barrow and Wrexham aren't the games I expected us to pick up enough points to be safe from. It's the Bradford and Harrogate types where we'll find out if we're safe or not.

Rose and Vernam back in on Monday.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Honestly thought he was the right appointment, but I have to doubt it now, he's slowly losing the fans, and I'm not sure he can get the respect he needed now
The board need to take some blame too, they shouldn't have tied his (or any candidate for that matter) hands behind their backs by forcing the training staff on him..

On what basis did you think he was the right appointment, considering in his last job he relegated Crewe and was out of work for quite while and Crewe fans said the only reason he took them up was because took over a really good squad but when he brought his choice of players he took them down?

Quoted from MaccasBoots

After a 6 game unbeaten run (which we should have had more points from were it not for some absolutely shocking officiating), we then lose a mere two games on the bounce against teams right at the top of the table and this board goes into meltdown again. Typical. There are some on here who clearly just hate Artell, and will gleefully delight in any defeat as it allows them to stick the knife in again.

'Meltdown' suggests heat, panic or rage. It's actually a quiet realisation that, once again, the club as well as the team is blundering towards non league. As one of the 437 or whatever fans who travelled to Barrow my overwhelming emotion is one of sadness that our excellent support has so little to cheer and that some are saying they are giving up away travel.

Regulars will have recognised pals from distant parts, chatted about seven hour train journeys, motorway queues and wondered who a familiar sounding voice was. There were Mariners Trust board members, sponsors, DN35 podcasters, Mariner Hodo and Graham. Tony Butcher (Cod Almighty) may have been there but didn't spot him. Point is, they, and the rest of us fans, are all stakeholders who seem to be riding on a runaway pony and trap with no brake, no reins and a rapidly loosening wheel.  

Stopped at a Service area on the M61 on the way back and saw some young fans getting some food. They weren't in meltdown, just tired and downcast. We older types have at least seen some better times but days like today must be dispiriting for those young souls.

We should all ignore the usual trolls and axe grinders on here but there is no doubt for me that belief is draining away on and off the pitch.

Good Post Croxton
Sums up how we feel with this poor appointment and this dreadful season (again)
Come On Town!!

Quoted from chaos33

You know what you are - the Nadine Dorries of this board.
Pathetically stupid sycophant that everyone mocks.  

The usual Ad Hominem from Chaos.

Not really. I’ve played the ball and the man. 🙂

I don't like to see personal attacks on other posters, but trolls aren't real people. They aren't interested in the club or interested in engaging honestly on the board. Still better to ignore them, however.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Crewe fans said the only reason he took them up was because took over a really good squad

I know they say that but I don't buy it. I don't think you can get promoted out of L2 without being pretty competent. He was after all Manager of the Season that year. He may well have had a decent squad, but team selection, formations, tactics, substitutions, and game management will all have been down to him.

Some good players they might have had, but it's not as if they have Messi, Ronaldo and Salah in the team was it?

He is not tearing any trees up here right now, but give the guy some credit where it's due.      

Quoted from RonMariner

I know they say that but I don't buy it. I don't think you can get promoted out of L2 without being pretty competent. He was after all Manager of the Season that year. He may well have had a decent squad, but team selection, formations, tactics, substitutions, and game management will all have been down to him.

Some good players they might have had, but it's not as if they have Messi, Ronaldo and Salah in the team was it?

He is not tearing any trees up here right now, but give the guy some credit where it's due.      

I think he was blessed with having a very good squad of players that were capable of playing his way, because many of them had come through the youth system that he was involved with playing that way. It's easier to add and integrate a few players in to a fluent system than start from scratch.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

I think he was blessed with having a very good squad of players that were capable of playing his way, because many of them had come through the youth system that he was involved with playing that way. It's easier to add and integrate a few players in to a fluent system than start from scratch.

If he was involved with the youth set up then he must get some credit for developing those players too. I know it ended badly for him at Crewe, partly I gather because they were forced to sell several of their best players, but not giving him any credit for getting them promoted seems like an attempt to rewrite history somewhat.

There are vanishingly few managers who can achieve success (or relative success) in a team without players who are good enough for the level at which they are playing. You get the odd outlier but, in general, the richer teams have the most success. If, following promotion, most Crewe's best players were sold and comparable replacements couldn't be found, a relegation is perfectly understandable. Without Rose, we'd already be as good as down, I reckon.

Where Artell seems to struggle is to realise that the weaknesses of some of the players can't be overcome by practicing and working on stuff in training. That said, we're going to have to play it out from the back to some degree with our current squad. We've got no height, no pace, no great skill, so whacking it long isn't going to achieve much, either. The number of individual errors leading to goals from this squad would be difficult for any manager to overcome.

If we stay up, I reckon he'll stay and we'll have to see what sort of players can be signed in the summer. If the unthinkable happens, he'll be on his way.

Quoted from GrimRob

Seems like we are bottom feeders whoever the manager is. Gets harder every year. There are not many weak teams in this division. A few years ago they were a lot more and you had to be really bad to go down (and we were) . Chesterfield up next season and the 72 league clubs are as strong as they have been for a long time.

Just lets hope no Premier teams get demoted to League 2 then eh  

I really don’t understand why we can’t be competitive in this division. Many smaller clubs than us are. Last seasons team were hardly world beaters but still finished 11th. So a modest improvement in squad quality should have seen us pushing on towards a playoff place.

The fact that we are struggling must therefore be down to truly abysmal summer recruitment. The goalkeeping fiasco has cost us loads of points. As has the over reliance on one quality, but often isolated striker.

Given the lack of pace, mobility, and basic ball playing skills of the current squad we need a big clear out and virtually total rebuild in the summer regardless of which division we end up in.  

Quoted from ginnywings

Given our appallingly bad showing over the last 2 decades, it is patently obvious that we just cannot attract the better players out there. Good players have options, and we are not at the top of the wish list of any aspiring footballer, so we end up with the make weights.

In the 85 games since we returned to the EFL, we have won a grand total of 24, and consistently have a negative goal difference over a very long time period. We have neither the finances nor the appeal to coax players of any ability to this footballing backwater, and that is what we are.

The club has been in a death spiral for years, desperately trying to cling to football league status, while other sides with seemingly less resources than us turn up week after week and just look better in every department than we do.

We have players who can't control the ball, pass the ball, beat opposition players with skill or nous, and generally look slower in thought and deed than our opponents almost on a weekly basis. We can't even get throw ins and free kicks right. We had three starters today in the spine of the team, who are young loanees with barely any experience of league football. What the fook do we expect to happen when that is allowed to happen, despite our healthy support base?

Most of our squad are non league standard at best and you can see that on the pitch in stark detail every time we step onto the pitch. Teams just let us have the ball, knowing we have little threat and will eventually make a gaffe of such epic proportions, that they will be presented with a guilt edge chance, which is why we concede with almost every opportunity the opposition have.

Is this the fault of Artell? I'm not a fan of his from even before he came here, but we have had countless managers over the years trying desperately to cobble together a winning side from the dregs of what's left after the better resourced and geographically placed teams have had the pick of the better players on offer.

I'm just about done with Town to be honest, and the constant looking forward to the next manager, the next squad, the next season, when the here and now is a never ending round of misery and disappointment.

Fooked off with football and for ever discussing where we go wrong and how we should put it right. Nothing changes does it? Looks like we may bore our way to another relegation in the Woods tradition of drawing countless games because we haven't got the players with the requisite steel, nous and determination to win at all costs.

This is just spot-on. I enjoy the company and the banter at the match but the football has been garbage for years. It is like groundhog day. We can have a good season in the National League against teams with very small support and as soon as we get back in the football league, we look out of our depth.
Truly bored senseless with the cycle and impossible to do another non league gig. Feel sorry for the owners as decent guys but relegation will be a financial disaster for us with huge apathy in the fan base. I think they have tried very hard and been unlucky with Artell, he is a bright enough guy but I tire of his blaming referees etc for our poor shows. His career as a football manager is very much on the line in the next week and I hope we come though it with at least one win but I am not confident

So Ive never warmed to Artell. There's just something about his manner that really bugs me, but that may just be me and the type of people I gravitate too - he's a very Alpha male type of bloke and these aren't the type of people I hang around with - but I suspect most decent managers are Alpha Male types.

I think he made a mistake in trying to change the team to quickly. But as others have said the summer recruitment is where it all went wrong and to be fair his January transfer recruitments have been pretty good, Thompson, Tharme and Hume are all upgrades on what we have.

Quoted from RonMariner

I really don’t understand why we can’t be competitive in this division. Many smaller clubs than us are. Last seasons team were hardly world beaters but still finished 11th. So a modest improvement in squad quality should have seen us pushing on towards a playoff place.

The fact that we are struggling must therefore be down to truly abysmal summer recruitment. The goalkeeping fiasco has cost us loads of points. As has the over reliance on one quality, but often isolated striker.

Given the lack of pace, mobility, and basic ball playing skills of the current squad we need a big clear out and virtually total rebuild in the summer regardless of which division we end up in.  

They weren’t world beaters and we lost a lot of the better players and replaced them with crap.

Goalkeeper: we had a competent keeper who was allowed to leave. Neither Eastwood or Cartwright are good enough and between them had played less than 50 FL games before this season. Awful recruitment.

Defence:
Smith left and time caught up with Waterfall. We were left with our third choice CB from last season in Maher and signed Rodgers who has been mostly crap. The left back situation wasn’t sorted and Mullarkey is no good at right back. Awful recruitment.

Midfield: lacked creativity and ability last year but the creativity was provided by McAtee further forward. Rose was a good signing but losing McAtee who creates stuff from nothing and pulls the opposition about to create openings has really shown just how poor our midfield is on the ball. Five of our six central midfielders that started the season for us had played nowhere near 100 games in the FL. The only one who had was Clifton who isn’t a capable central midfielder and he is not a FL standard central midfielder as he can’t control or pass the ball well.

Up front we’ve done okay. Hurst had an average team last season, lost most of the quality and replaced it with mainly rubbish. He’s done a lot of good for us over the years but he absolutely fúcked up this summer.

Quoted from mariner91

They weren’t world beaters and we lost a lot of the better players and replaced them with crap.

Goalkeeper: we had a competent keeper who was allowed to leave. Neither Eastwood or Cartwright are good enough and between them had played less than 50 FL games before this season. Awful recruitment.

Defence:
Smith left and time caught up with Waterfall. We were left with our third choice CB from last season in Maher and signed Rodgers who has been mostly crap. The left back situation wasn’t sorted and Mullarkey is no good at right back. Awful recruitment.

Midfield: lacked creativity and ability last year but the creativity was provided by McAtee further forward. Rose was a good signing but losing McAtee who creates stuff from nothing and pulls the opposition about to create openings has really shown just how poor our midfield is on the ball. Five of our six central midfielders that started the season for us had played nowhere near 100 games in the FL. The only one who had was Clifton who isn’t a capable central midfielder and he is not a FL standard central midfielder as he can’t control or pass the ball well.

Up front we’ve done okay. Hurst had an average team last season, lost most of the quality and replaced it with mainly rubbish. He’s done a lot of good for us over the years but he absolutely fúcked up this summer.

This is really true - last season's Waterfall and Smith were so much better than Rodgers and Maher. In Midfield although Conteh was a good signing our next best midfielder is Holohan who is frankly top end NL player. You can't have one FL level midfielder an expect to be competitive.  

Even up front we've replaced Macatee, Lloyd and Orsi with Rose, Wilson, Eisa and Pyke - although Rose is excellent, Wilson isn't bad and Pyke is a decent prospect they are still not as good in totality as the players who left.

We've also been a bit unlucky - I think Vernham out for most of the season is unlucky because he is definitley FL pedigree and we would of expected more from Hunt. Clifton has had his worst season in a town shirt (he was much better last season) But there are too many players who we had who wouldn't look out place in a side in a play off place in the NL but aren't FL standard.

But the recruitment in the summer

What Artell has failed at, as did Hurst before him, is the Jekyll and Hyde performances of the team. Until this is sorted it will deter any type of progress we want to make.

Furthermore, more teams of the past played a certain style and let the opponents worry about us. We worry about the opponents. Once safety has been confirmed a lot needs sorting out in the close season.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

This is really true - last season's Waterfall and Smith were so much better than Rodgers and Maher. In Midfield although Conteh was a good signing our next best midfielder is Holohan who is frankly top end NL player. You can't have one FL level midfielder an expect to be competitive.  

Even up front we've replaced Macatee, Lloyd and Orsi with Rose, Wilson, Eisa and Pyke - although Rose is excellent, Wilson isn't bad and Pyke is a decent prospect they are still not as good in totality as the players who left.

We've also been a bit unlucky - I think Vernham out for most of the season is unlucky because he is definitley FL pedigree and we would of expected more from Hunt. Clifton has had his worst season in a town shirt (he was much better last season) But there are too many players who we had who wouldn't look out place in a side in a play off place in the NL but aren't FL standard.

But the recruitment in the summer

Decent prospect?! Pyke is 26.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

I think he made a mistake in trying to change the team to quickly. But as others have said the summer recruitment is where it all went wrong and to be fair his January transfer recruitments have been pretty good, Thompson, Tharme and Hume are all upgrades on what we have.

How many of them were down to him though? I can't remember the specifics but many of them said we have been interested in them for more than one window? We might have seen some of them had PH been here.

Quoted from GrimRob

How many of them were down to him though? I can't remember the specifics but many of them said we have been interested in them for more than one window? We might have seen some of them had PH been here.

None of the signings were Artells in January i'd have thought, except maybe obikwu given he's u23s so probs not got data on him and Artell seems to rate him.

When he came one of the things he said attracted him was that he wouldn't be chiefly responsible for stuff like recruitment, Stockwood kind of said Hurst didn't get on board with having a recruitment guy and still wanted his own players and that was one of the reasons for him going.

Tharme came in and said his main weakness was his passing for goodness sake, and Artell singled him out for his lumping it after his debut. He's hardly an Artellball style CB, wouldn't have been his choice, but he is an improvement on what we had.

Quoted from arryarryarry

On what basis did you think he was the right appointment, considering in his last job he relegated Crewe and was out of work for quite while and Crewe fans said the only reason he took them up was because took over a really good squad but when he brought his choice of players he took them down?

Who hasn't been sacked among the 24 Managers/Head coaches in League 2?  Indeed in the 72 League teams and 20 Premier teams who hasn't been sacked? Its part of the learning curve.
My surprise when DA was appointed, after saying who? was that he had only managed one team, and he had been out of the game for 18 months, and my estimation, not someone who could enter the job running full pelt whilst the team was sinking. It proved to be correct, as instead of steadying the team and hunkering down to stop us shedding points ( yes shedding as all teams that start a match have one point, and you lose that point or gain 2 more) he went off on a tangent and tried to change tactics and methods that our players couldn't just "understand", or couldn't deliver due to the lack of basic skills.
However w we are where we are and sacking him just doesn't solve anything, just a large desruption at the wrong time.
Bradford on Monday so lets hope eh? UTM

Ginnys post on page two sums my mood up perfectly. I'm 70 and if you ask any town fan my age where we should be in the pyramid I'm sure they'd say league one. However, for the last couple of years I'm coming to the realisation that maybe I'm destined to spend the rest of my days supporting a crap league two team, and the aspiration is to stay there not get out at the right end.
That's despite having league one support and having to watch a succession of teams who I've historically classed as rubbish punching way above their weight. Depressing isn't the right word because there are far worse problems in the world, but it's close. I'm not an Artell fan, his ego is far too big for his achievements but he's the last of a string who've failed to reignite us. I thought it was Fenty, but maybe we're just going to have to get used to the idea that the world has changed and we need to get used to it.
Never thought I'd hope we could keep pace with Cheltenham, Wycombe, Barrow, Stevenage et al

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Honestly thought he was the right appointment, but I have to doubt it now, he's slowly losing the fans, and I'm not sure he can get the respect he needed now
The board need to take some blame too, they shouldn't have tied his (or any candidate for that matter) hands behind their backs by forcing the training staff on him..

I wouldn't say the board have fcked up ---but giving him a 48 year contract FFS

Unlucky with Ainley too

Hurst left us in a bad state. All we can do is steady the ship and get off the rocks.

Quoted from golfer

I wouldn't say the board have fcked up ---but giving him a 48 year contract FFS

I think that we are more likely to progress under Artell than most of the others, definitely Hurst.
Clearly we are terrible with some massive issues but I think we will get away with it this year and so we should give him a chance to try and mould a team. Until the other day most of the January recruitment were getting praise.
We are where we are and where we have been for ages, I'm probably in the minority but I think we may do well in the next few years, also think some of the dogs aimed at Stockwood are not fair at all.
Anyway hopefully we will turn up tomorrow and win.

Quoted from grassbandits

Unlucky with Ainley too

Wasn't he injured before he became ill?

Should never have got rid of PH without a real plan for a successor . Would be comfortably mid table right now.... with lots of moans of course

Considering the tosh and drivel that he inherited when he joined us, i personally think he has done ok. His January signings have definitely been an improvement on what we had, even though we suffered some of our highest defeats in our history, and he has made big strides in loaning out plenty of players who are clearly not needed or wanted here next season.
Fingers crossed we stay up, and fingers doubly crossed that Joe Hutchinson works his magic, and DA finds a few names in his little black book during the summer.

I wouldn't go as far as saying Artell has done OK given that he's won exactly the same PPG as Hurst I agree that his signings in January seem to have improved the squad to some degree, but this is countered by the loss of Conteh who was obviously holding it all together much more than we realised. I'd imagine we'd probably have another half a dozen points right now if he had stayed as we've had no effective midfield in way too many games since he left.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Today was Artell’s 20th league match as Head Coach. His record…

Won 4
Drawn 8
Lost 8
For 24
Against 37
GD -13
Points 20

Hurst mk2’s final 20 league games as Town manager…

Won 5
Drawn 5
Lost 10
For 23
Against 30
GD -7
Points 20

Discuss…

He needs to be relieved of his duties. Please don’t allow him a transfer budget at the end of the season, it will take us back years!!!

A Manager is where the important investment needs to be made!!

In that DN35 interview Artell said that 'teams that complete over 600 passes win more games '

I can't be bothered to fact check but I would be interested if that's true - I mean is he talking about through all league's ?

I find it hard to believe many teams in league 2 complete 600 a game .

Wrexham beat Mansfield with half the posession they had - 358 completed passes v 556 .

I have looked through the top 3 out of mild curiousity and they have only gone over 600 completed passes a game in single figures between all of them .

Seems a strange point to raise which seems irrelevant in terms of league 2 .

I imagine that stat is skewed quite considerably by City and to a lesser extent Arsenal. I’m sure making more passes is more likely to result in a win if you’ve got some of the best players in the world and almost unlimited money to spend. But if you’re in L2 and have an average budget, the chances of your players being good enough to make that many passes without a large number of mistakes is probably quite low.

Someone must have told him recently that it doesn’t count when 450 of those passes are in your own penalty area!

Quoted from Mappers

In that DN35 interview Artell said that 'teams that complete over 600 passes win more games '

I can't be bothered to fact check but I would be interested if that's true - I mean is he talking about through all league's ?

I find it hard to believe many teams in league 2 complete 600 a game .

Wrexham beat Mansfield with half the posession they had - 358 completed passes v 556 .

I have looked through the top 3 out of mild curiousity and they have only gone over 600 completed passes a game in single figures between all of them .

Seems a strange point to raise which seems irrelevant in terms of league 2 .

I struggle to believe we have made 600 completed passes this season.
He's either read the "Idiots Guide to Football:_ How to Win" or he's force fed with the Data outfit and spouts it so he sounds interesting. The fact that 600 complete passes will win a game, is negated by the 10 rubbish passes in and around our penalty area that the opposition use to stuff us.

Quoted from Maringer

I wouldn't go as far as saying Artell has done OK given that he's won exactly the same PPG as Hurst I agree that his signings in January seem to have improved the squad to some degree, but this is countered by the loss of Conteh who was obviously holding it all together much more than we realised. I'd imagine we'd probably have another half a dozen points right now if he had stayed as we've had no effective midfield in way too many games since he left.

If we’re talking about Artells abilities as a manager, how is his work in the transfer market at all ‘countered’ by losing Conteh? He couldn’t help that happening and if anything it’s a further demonstration that Artell has done okay.

The fact a large chunk of our fans didn’t see Conteh leaving as a big thing tells you all you need to know, it was absolutely blindingly obvious.

If we win today our form in the past 10 games (which includes the Donny result) is that of a mid table side, that’s a steadier ship and something to build on. Yet again the reaction on this board to 2 defeats against good teams has been completely over the top.

Quoted from pontoonlew

If we’re talking about Artells abilities as a manager, how is his work in the transfer market at all ‘countered’ by losing Conteh? He couldn’t help that happening and if anything it’s a further demonstration that Artell has done okay.

The fact a large chunk of our fans didn’t see Conteh leaving as a big thing tells you all you need to know, it was absolutely blindingly obvious.

If we win today our form in the past 10 games (which includes the Donny result) is that of a mid table side, that’s a steadier ship and something to build on. Yet again the reaction on this board to 2 defeats against good teams has been completely over the top.

I disagree. It's not the fact that we lost its the way we approached the games which shows naivety by DA. The way he approached the match we were going to lose, all we didn't know was by how much.
We had a run of six games which didn't lose and approached the Wrexham match with our star player out. Make it 7 games without a loss should have been his priority. 5:4:1 keep it tight let the opposition come at you and make them work for it. It was worse for the Barrow game as he put forward an attacking team. We tried to play as equals when in fact they are in another league,  and using us to gain points. They must have been laughing at us at half and full-time. The charge of the Light Brigade must have been seen as an astute and clever plan if compared with our two last matches.
Personally, I would have had the 10 outfield players on the goal line with the goalie running free. No passing required

Quoted from Mappers

In that DN35 interview Artell said that 'teams that complete over 600 passes win more games '

I can't be bothered to fact check but I would be interested if that's true - I mean is he talking about through all league's ?

I find it hard to believe many teams in league 2 complete 600 a game .

Wrexham beat Mansfield with half the posession they had - 358 completed passes v 556 .

I have looked through the top 3 out of mild curiousity and they have only gone over 600 completed passes a game in single figures between all of them .

Seems a strange point to raise which seems irrelevant in terms of league 2 .

Coming out with comments like that when your limited evidence suggests it's not being done regularly at this level tells me he thinks we are all stupid. What if the players at his disposal aren't capable of completing 600 passes?

Quoted from Mappers

In that DN35 interview Artell said that 'teams that complete over 600 passes win more games '

I can't be bothered to fact check but I would be interested if that's true - I mean is he talking about through all league's ?

I find it hard to believe many teams in league 2 complete 600 a game .

Wrexham beat Mansfield with half the posession they had - 358 completed passes v 556 .

I have looked through the top 3 out of mild curiousity and they have only gone over 600 completed passes a game in single figures between all of them .

Seems a strange point to raise which seems irrelevant in terms of league 2 .

Another example of his dilussional mindset . The Pep handbook doesn’t apply to L2 . Did I really have to say that ? To actually say that on a fans podcast is just laughable.

600 passes?

Talking of stats, how many games do you win when you can't score more than one goal a game and are in the habit of gifting the opposition soft goals?

I'm guessing it's about 4 wins every 22 games.......

Quoted from exiledmeggie

Hurst left us in a bad state. All we can do is steady the ship and get off the rocks.

Disagree Hursts side defended competently. We were a keeper from giving ourselves a chance at the other end. From that confidence grows and teams gell.

Look back when it’s gone wrong !! that position for me is the link.

Said many times he needed the window. Good manger and knows his stuff. Albeit he has the book with all the excuses when it going south. Difficult to replace 😉

He should have gone after the Donny thrashing. That decision (as well as appointing him in the first place) will take us down.

Quoted from davmariner

He should have gone after the Donny thrashing. That decision (as well as appointing him in the first place) will take us down.

I really think we have had it if he stays in charge.

Sacking him now may not save us, but at least there is a a chance a change could alter the downward trajectory. Has to be worth a try.

Quoted from pontoonlew

If we’re talking about Artells abilities as a manager, how is his work in the transfer market at all ‘countered’ by losing Conteh? He couldn’t help that happening and if anything it’s a further demonstration that Artell has done okay.

The fact a large chunk of our fans didn’t see Conteh leaving as a big thing tells you all you need to know, it was absolutely blindingly obvious.

If we win today our form in the past 10 games (which includes the Donny result) is that of a mid table side, that’s a steadier ship and something to build on. Yet again the reaction on this board to 2 defeats against good teams has been completely over the top.

Letting Conteh go was a scramble for cash following the “one out one in” line.  Offer the lad more cash and he would have extended if indeed he had a release. Doubt he did, a release clause mid season. If so who negotiated that one. ?

Quoted from GibMariner

Letting Conteh go was a scramble for cash following the “one out one in” line.  Offer the lad more cash and he would have extended if indeed he has a release. Doubt he did, a reales clause mid season. If so who negotiated that one. ?

The cash we got for him will be far less than the loss in revenue when we fall back into the NL.

I think it was reported that a clause in his contract was activated as soon as the bid came in? If it's in the contract, there isn't anything we can do about it if he wants to leave.

The weakness of the squad was there to see today. Rose was buggered with 20 minutes to go, but we didn't have anybody to bring on who can play a similar role. Hurst signed 1 player capable of leading the line with no back-up (Pyke doesn't count). Artell didn't sign anyone who could do that job, either, but I'm guessing that was as much to do with not being able to find anybody suitable during the January window. Always difficult to make good signings then as you are only ever signing players a team isn't bothered about keeping.

Quoted from GibMariner

Letting Conteh go was a scramble for cash following the “one out one in” line.  Offer the lad more cash and he would have extended if indeed he had a release. Doubt he did, a release clause mid season. If so who negotiated that one. ?

Absolutely this. The owners give every impression of just wanting to make everyone happy, including other clubs who won't lift a finger to help us unless it helps them. How's the tie up with Luton going?

If a players agent insists on a release clause that means we get half a season from a player who we then have to let go for not that much then look elsewhere or drive a better bargain.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Absolutely this. The owners give every impression of just wanting to make everyone happy, including other clubs who won't lift a finger to help us unless it helps them. How's the tie up with Luton going?

If a players agent insists on a release clause that means we get half a season from a player who we then have to let go for not that much then look elsewhere or drive a better bargain.

Would not have happened under John's watch... just saying

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

If a players agent insists on a release clause that means we get half a season from a player who we then have to let go for not that much then look elsewhere or drive a better bargain.

So the player goes elsewhere, we don't make money selling him on and sign a less effective journeyman from elsewhere? Or take a gamble on another youngster who isn't as highly-rated?

You seem to be arguing against buying young players with the intent of developing them and making a profit. I thought everybody agreed this was a good idea for a lower division club? I seem to think it was reported that we were one of several clubs in for Conteh and he chose us. The release clause is probably one of the reasons why.

I don't blame Conteh (or his agent). It was the lack of a Plan B when he left which had cost us. Thompson has improved us a bit in the middle, but the others around him have remained poor due to their inherent limitations. Yesterday yet another example of a game where we struggled to string more than a few passes together in midfield before losing possession. Obviously, Ainley's illness wasn't something which could be expected and I suspect he'd have made a difference had he been fit to play as he has a huge amount of League experience in comparison to our other midfield options.

Let's hope he can come in to perhaps make a little bit of a difference in the remaining games.

Quoted from male private Nale

Would not have happened under John's watch... just saying

Absolutely 100% - as John wouldn’t have paid for him in the first place!!

Quoted from Maringer

So the player goes elsewhere, we don't make money selling him on and sign a less effective journeyman from elsewhere? Or take a gamble on another youngster who isn't as highly-rated?

You seem to be arguing against buying young players with the intent of developing them and making a profit. I thought everybody agreed this was a good idea for a lower division club? I seem to think it was reported that we were one of several clubs in for Conteh and he chose us. The release clause is probably one of the reasons why.

I don't blame Conteh (or his agent). It was the lack of a Plan B when he left which had cost us. Thompson has improved us a bit in the middle, but the others around him have remained poor due to their inherent limitations. Yesterday yet another example of a game where we struggled to string more than a few passes together in midfield before losing possession. Obviously, Ainley's illness wasn't something which could be expected and I suspect he'd have made a difference had he been fit to play as he has a huge amount of League experience in comparison to our other midfield options.

Let's hope he can come in to perhaps make a little bit of a difference in the remaining games.

Getting young players in and selling them for a profit can certainly be a part of a plan to progress in the future.

That does not mean they call all the shots; we should be able to keep a player for a full season if he is a major part of your team, that should have part of the deal. If that is the only way you can attract said young player then walk away and spend your money elsewhere. You can't plan anything if your better players play only a handful of games.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Getting young players in and selling them for a profit can certainly be a part of a plan to progress in the future.

That does not mean they call all the shots; we should be able to keep a player for a full season if he is a major part of your team, that should have part of the deal. If that is the only way you can attract said young player then walk away and spend your money elsewhere. You can't plan anything if your better players play only a handful of games.

But that would have meant not having a better player for half the season (better than none) and turning down 300k for selling him. Buying Conteh was about the only bit of this season that was a success!

21 league games under Artell (and 22 in total) and here's how those 22 have gone...

D L W D L L W L D L D L L D W D D W D L L D

Quoted from toontown

But that would have meant not having a better player for half the season (better than none) and turning down 300k for selling him. Buying Conteh was about the only bit of this season that was a success!

It's not all or nothing though. The sale of Conteh has caused more problems and might contribute to our demise.

I appreciate it is all in hindsight but if we had got a seasoned pro in his position on a 2 year deal (similar to Thompson) would we be in this mess?

It was a success in that we made a small profit but at what cost?

These decisions define a season and although I agree with the overall premise of developing young players you can't have them disrupting your season by dictating things like that.

I really don't think our season has gone awry just because we 'let' Conteh go.  

I liked the lad but here and now he's not a patch on Thompson.  Yesterday Thompson took the game by the scruff of the neck, Conteh didn't do that once for us.  Equally so as much as I think Thompson is an immediate improvement on Conteh it hasn't taken us to the next level at all, such is the shower of excrement surrounding him.

Our season has and will be defined by urine poor recruitment which has left us with a lack of an experienced and commanding goalkeeper, fragile central defenders who are prone to huge lapses in concentration, full-backs who can't defend simple crosses and a midfield that just lacks anything at all other than running.  The 'best' part of the squad is the attack, which looks great on paper.  In reality though not enough of them have been fit/in form at the same time nor have we had the luxury of playing enough of them together because everything else behind is so fragile.

You could have Thompson for the season or you could have Conteh for the season, we still struggle with everything around them.  

That's a good point...so much of our attacking recruitment in the summer was done so with the aim of playing the two wide attacking players (Eisa, Khan, Gnahoua, Vernam, Clifton, Ainley, Pyke were all options there). We now seemingly can't afford to try and play that formation because we're so fragile everywhere else (and we weren't very good playing that in the first place.)

Eisa a big goal threat for us but an absolute liability in all other senses and we can't risk playing him.

Bizarrely, I think Pyke was signed as an alternative/foil for Rose, hence being given the No. 9 shirt. He's barely featured through lack of fitness and the fact that he's played most of his career as a wing-back. Unfortunately, for a defender-turned-attacker, he's no Barry Hayles.

Eisa has always been a fair-weather player. Can do some good attacking in a team doing well and on the front foot, but incredibly lightweight if asked to defend and doesn't achieve anything when the going gets tough.

That and, for me, he doesn't really offer much as an attacker apart from his brilliant shot. Doesnt seem to have a trick to take a player on, and his passing/crossing isn't great..

All good points, but at what point do we roll the dice and gamble?

When do we try and win games 4-3 rather than try and ultimately fail to shut sides out and hold onto a narrow lead.

Notts County and Doncaster are the two examples that led to us adopting a more pragmatic shape and approach.  But was it the change in shape that saw us stop conceding as many goals or just the cutting out of stupid errors.  Saturday against Barrow was just stupid mistakes that cost us, not that we had too many players ahead or behind the ball.  Rodgers remembers how to kill the ball with his first touch and we don't concede that second, Thompson doesn't dally on the ball in the middle of the park and we don't concede the second, Cartwright doesn't come out and make a mess of the cross and the third goal never happens.

Yesterday, Hume stays goalside and holds his man up then he never gets in a position where he panics and pulls the man down.

It can be 3-5-2, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1...whatever system you play.  If you're gonna make mistakes you'll get punished.  We're making mistakes, again.  We've gotta be bolder and get players involved who can do things at the other end for us.  Thompson's shot aside, we did so little yesterday.  Us hoping like sitting ducks that we can be less excrement than the other 3 sides doesn't sit comfortably with me.  

Quoted from GollyGTFC

21 league games under Artell (and 22 in total) and here's how those 22 have gone...

D L W D L L W L D L D L L D W D D W D L L D

Trying to be positive you can see that we have only lost 2 of the last 9 games, and that against two of the very best sides in the division with one win and a couple of the draws against teams in the top 10. So on that form there is no reason why we couldn't clock up enough points to stay up. But then, form can quickly change. A win of Saturday would be such a boost.