Forest points deduction

Yet another deduction for one of the minnows. 4 points instead of Everton's 6, 2 less for good behaviour.

When are the big boys going to be punished though?

Charges are clearly different in respect of Man City and Chelsea but agree the time delay in dealing with these is embarrassing and will, no doubt, at some stage lead to legal action of the professional game which will open a massive can of worms for the administration and management of it.

Anyone who plays locally knows if you play an ineligible player you automatically lose 3 points. Surely the system should have been set at the start, overspend by up to £10m a season, lose 3 points, up to £20m a season, 6 points etc etc. Thus clubs know exactly the risk they take for breaking the rules.

Where it is also unfair, IMO, are that Forest as a newly promoted club believed they had to invest heavily to remain in the Premiership which they did. I think it much fairer that the amount they can overspend by should be the same as existing Prem clubs I.e. £105m thus making it easier for them to compete when initially promoted.

In reality though allowing clubs to overspend income by £35 m per season does not sound like a business model that has a long future, crazy really when an individual Premiership player has a larger financial turnover than a L2 club and probably most L1 sides.

In my dreams, both Chelsea and Man City to be relegated 5 leagues, like Glasgow Rangers…..

Don't cry too much for Forest. Their billionaire Greek owner (who also owns the biggest club in Greece and one in Portugal) knew exactly what he was doing. Just thought he could get away with bending the rules, because he's always got away with it in the past with Olympiakos. On numerous occasions, in fact. Billionaires tend to get what they want so it must have caught him by surprise.

The sheer ludicrosity of a sustainability rule that allows clubs to lose £105 million over a three year period shows why the game is becoming a basket case in this country. So much money sloshing around, you can only imagine how much corruption must be taking place in the shadows.

I always find it surprising that in the US, land of (almost) unfettered capitalism, the NFL has got their excrement sorted out to make the competition as fair as possible. It's like the Wild West in comparison here.

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

In my dreams, both Chelsea and Man City to be relegated 5 leagues, like Glasgow Rangers…..

Scunny v Man City next season then?  

Quoted from GrimRob

Yet another deduction for one of the minnows. 4 points instead of Everton's 6, 2 less for good behaviour.

When are the big boys going to be punished though?

In what world are Forest and Everton considered minnows?

Quoted from pizzzza

In what world are Forest and Everton considered minnows?

Well Forest definitely are. Everton used to be "big" but a long time ago.

The football governance bill is introduced into parliament today.

Can't help but feel it won't make a lot of difference as the wealthy clubs have been allowed to accrue too much power, but we live in hope.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68602074

Quoted from Maringer

I always find it surprising that in the US, land of (almost) unfettered capitalism, the NFL has got their excrement sorted out to make the competition as fair as possible. It's like the Wild West in comparison here.

And this is the only way I can see them making the Premier League, indeed the leagues below too, 'fair'.  It has to be a complete cap and equal spend limits.  There's always too many loopholes to exploit and expensive lawyers that will rip apart any moves for punishments, that's the real reason that Man City are yet to be deducted points. They've just got a better legal team than Everton and Forest had.

I almost want to hope, believe and even welcome a deduction for City, Chelsea et al.  But I also really don't care.  The game at that level has completely gone. I can't relate to it anymore. It's like the bloke who's trying to get the Enhanced Games together based on the concept that if everyone is juicing then it's fairer than only having a select few doing it.  I say let City spend however much the way want, let them buy title after title after title.  Let Newcastle spend what they want now they've got the wealth to do so.  Remove all financial fair play 'rules' at that level. I couldn't care less anymore.

Quoted from Maringer

I always find it surprising that in the US, land of (almost) unfettered capitalism, the NFL has got their excrement sorted out to make the competition as fair as possible. It's like the Wild West in comparison here.

Quoted from diehardmariner

And this is the only way I can see them making the Premier League, indeed the leagues below too, 'fair'.  It has to be a complete cap and equal spend limits.  There's always too many loopholes to exploit and expensive lawyers that will rip apart any moves for punishments, that's the real reason that Man City are yet to be deducted points. They've just got a better legal team than Everton and Forest had.

I almost want to hope, believe and even welcome a deduction for City, Chelsea et al.  But I also really don't care.  The game at that level has completely gone. I can't relate to it anymore. It's like the bloke who's trying to get the Enhanced Games together based on the concept that if everyone is juicing then it's fairer than only having a select few doing it.  I say let City spend however much the way want, let them buy title after title after title.  Let Newcastle spend what they want now they've got the wealth to do so.  Remove all financial fair play 'rules' at that level. I couldn't care less anymore.

It is easier to put such stipulations on a sport when you are the only country in the world that plays that sport professionally. Football is played in just about every country around the world and so putting financial limits is always going to be problematic.

Nobody gets relegated or promoted in the NFL either making it a closed shop. The NFL's competition rules are more about protecting the current franchises than making sport fairer.

Quoted from MarinerMal

Nobody gets relegated or promoted in the NFL either making it a closed shop. The NFL's competition rules are more about protecting the current franchises than making sport fairer.

They also get their players from College football which is, in itself, big business, I suspect. The 'draft' of players is a good idea, but not really workable now that the big clubs have manufactured the EPPP to steal young talent from smaller clubs. Scumbags. The gutless F.A. shouldn't have allowed that to happen.

Doesn't change the fact that their system simply works better than the free for all we see in England, at least.

The big clubs here have always dominated, but there has been the odd outlier, such as when Leicester won remarkably the other year. I don't think that would be possible now, even though it is less than a decade later.

Quoted from Maringer

They also get their players from College football which is, in itself, big business, I suspect. The 'draft' of players is a good idea, but not really workable now that the big clubs have manufactured the EPPP to steal young talent from smaller clubs. Scumbags. The gutless F.A. shouldn't have allowed that to happen.

Doesn't change the fact that their system simply works better than the free for all we see in England, at least.

The big clubs here have always dominated, but there has been the odd outlier, such as when Leicester won remarkably the other year. I don't think that would be possible now, even though it is less than a decade later.

Agree with you re younger players and the current system is an absolute joke.

Reference trying to get equity in football that is, IMO, both unachievable and in itself unfair. I think there is a fundamental difference between clubs that generate their own incomes and those who are a billionaire’s play thing. Clubs with bigger crowds, better marketing and better facilities should be rewarded for this with Spurs being an excellent example of this with their new multi use stadium and surrounding infrastructure making them one of the top ten income generating clubs worldwide. In addition they have also invested significantly in the local community building educational facilities with plan to build affordable housing also in the pipeline.

Inequality comes about when clubs like Man City, Newcastle and Chelsea are owned by multiple billionaires and/or states who can in reality just keep pumping millions into their playing budgets every single season. In the lower leagues we have seen this with Wrexham and Stockport but at least these are supporting clubs with a long history and significant support base. Whereas Salford and Forest Green are vanity projects which in reality are never ever clubs who will attract even an average suppporter base never mind a significant one.

Major problem is always that most supporters are extatic when their clubs get a wealthy new owner believing the holy grail of the Premiership is within their grasp. As I say I don’t have a problem with big clubs being rich as long as it’s self generated.

Quoted from MarinerMal

It is easier to put such stipulations on a sport when you are the only country in the world that plays that sport professionally. Football is played in just about every country around the world and so putting financial limits is always going to be problematic.

Nobody gets relegated or promoted in the NFL either making it a closed shop. The NFL's competition rules are more about protecting the current franchises than making sport fairer.

The only problem with the Premier League introducing financial limits is that they would effectively be handing over their mantle as the best league in the world.  You limit what clubs can spend and they'll have to cut their cloth accordingly, that inevitably would mean to spend on players wages and that highest calibre of player go to Spain, Germany, Italy, Saudi...wherever is prepared to pay top brass.

Personally I've absolutely no issue with that.  Was top flight football less enjoyable when it was Micky Quinn banging in goals as opposed to Erling Haaland?  Or when Gary McAllister was pulling midfield strings instead of Kevin De Bruyne?  

Of course it'll never happen because turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Forest’s point deduction will be overturned. If the EFL weren’t legally allowed to sanction Leicester City for seasons when they were a member of the PL I don’t see how the PL can sanction Forest in relation to seasons when they were in the EFL.

Financial FairPlay is pointless in the PL. It should be abolished as it restricts the smaller clubs. If it was abolished it would be easier for smaller clubs to make rapid and large investments in their squad. The bigger clubs would still be restricted by the UEFA FFP system.

FFP was 100% introduced in the PL to stop another upstart like Leicester coming along and winning the title and taking a Champions Leagye slot.

It might have been introduced (FFP) due to the financial issues when Portsmouth got relegated.

Quoted from ginnywings

The football governance bill is introduced into parliament today.

Can't help but feel it won't make a lot of difference as the wealthy clubs have been allowed to accrue too much power, but we live in hope.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68602074

Premiershite will find away round any attempt of the EFL getting share greedy batards totally ruined the game

At the end of the day Forests owner thought he was above the law and wildly overspent in the belief that they would only get a fine which he could afford as a self entitled billionaire. Worse case scenario they’d get a points deduction but it wouldn’t affect them because they’d signed players that would’ve got them in a safe position. Unluckily for Forest those £300m worth of players have done remarkably less well than Stavros imagined and now they might get relegated and lose £150m next season.
Shame . Forest cheated and they’ve got what they deserve. Hope them or Everton get relegated.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

At the end of the day Forests owner thought he was above the law and wildly overspent in the belief that they would only get a fine which he could afford as a self entitled billionaire. Worse case scenario they’d get a points deduction but it wouldn’t affect them because they’d signed players that would’ve got them in a safe position. Unluckily for Forest those £300m worth of players have done remarkably less well than Stavros imagined and now they might get relegated and lose £150m next season.
Shame . Forest cheated and they’ve got what they deserve. Hope them or Everton get relegated.

Yeah i did wonder at the time how signing 25+ players would have an impact on their season, it was a bit reckless to be fair and was a massive kick in the teeth for some of the players that help get them there and probably wouldn't get a look in.  They have also don't have Cooper who helped them stay up with all those players (probably some he didn't even ask for) and I think they will get relegated.  

How can over 100 charges against Man City just keep  floating around without a proper investigation and penalties if found to have broken FFP rules.

Do City have better lawyers and able to fend off the charges because of their financial power ??

Quoted from acko338

How can over 100 charges against Man City just keep  floating around without a proper investigation and penalties if found to have broken FFP rules.

Do City have better lawyers and able to fend off the charges because of their financial power ??

It takes considerably longer to gather evidence for 100 charges than it does for 3 I guess . They do keep reiterating that they are a different type of offence though

Man City know how to play this . As they’ve got over 100 charges they know they can drag this out . It’ll probably be at least a year . I don’t think they’re going to get away with it . They know they’re facing serious penalties. The thing is city are a new club in terms of success and don’t have the world wide fan base . Another thing the foreign ownership didn’t realise is an intrinsic part of football.
I’m guessing there’s a few clubs at the top end of PL and CL who are rubbing their hands at the prospect of Man City’s demise.

You just know Citeh will get off with this. They're going to have the best lawyers money can buy n they're going to find loopholes n exemptions etc etc , theyve also got more resources than the PL so can play the long game
And finally you just know the PL will eventually cave in, they arent going to harm the best club in the world , who also have the deepest of pockets.

Expect a 3 point deduction to be announced once they are mathematically assured of the premiership!

This won’t happen, even though the cynic in me probably believes it. They’ve cheated on a spectacular scale because they thought that they’re above the law and have done some much philanthropy in E Manchester.
This is why Newcastle and PIF haven’t gone mad because they realise the consequences

Quoted from Maringer

Don't cry too much for Forest. Their billionaire Greek owner (who also owns the biggest club in Greece and one in Portugal) knew exactly what he was doing. Just thought he could get away with bending the rules, because he's always got away with it in the past with Olympiakos. On numerous occasions, in fact. Billionaires tend to get what they want so it must have caught him by surprise.

The sheer ludicrosity of a sustainability rule that allows clubs to lose £105 million over a three year period shows why the game is becoming a basket case in this country. So much money sloshing around, you can only imagine how much corruption must be taking place in the shadows.

I always find it surprising that in the US, land of (almost) unfettered capitalism, the NFL has got their excrement sorted out to make the competition as fair as possible. It's like the Wild West in comparison here.

"the NFL has got their sh!t sorted out"    To be fair, the Gridiron players in the NFL only ply their trade in the USA. It's therefore easy to control. They have something similar in Baseball.
If you curtailed wages in England, German, French, Spanish, Italian and a few more would step in and pinch them. It could be done at FIFA level or even UEFA, but since when were these organisations ever useful? The more money sloshing about, the more brown paper bags being stuffed.

Quoted from acko338

How can over 100 charges against Man City just keep  floating around without a proper investigation and penalties if found to have broken FFP rules.

Do City have better lawyers and able to fend off the charges because of their financial power ??

Agree, I'm sick of this line being trotted out as an excuse, not by u acko, i  agree with u

If Z commits 100 suspected murder offences, they don't get given bail to keep murdering more.    Its like letting off an athletic cheat for multiple substances in the drugs test.  It's a feeble excuse. It's a competition, if it's not a level playing field, there's no point to it.

And then you've got the West ham guy Sullivan saying we don't need a regulator.   Ha.

Quoted from ex-merseymariner

Agree, I'm sick of this line being trotted out as an excuse, not by u acko, i  agree with u

If Z commits 100 suspected murder offences, they don't get given bail to keep murdering more.    Its like letting off an athletic cheat for multiple substances in the drugs test.  It's a feeble excuse. It's a competition, if it's not a level playing field, there's no point to it.

And then you've got the West ham guy Sullivan saying we don't need a regulator.   Ha.

That would also be my observation as well. Why do all 115 charges have to be heard at once? I am sure the alleged fraudulent accounting charges may need some complex investigation and background work but the charges are there so the authorities have concluded their investigation so a date should have been set for a hearing if it only dealt with 25% of these.

Really is unacceptable way to run the game.

This is ruining the game. First you had to check the linesman’s flag wasn’t up before you celebrated a goal 2 second delay to joy. Then you have you to wait up to 5 mins before Var decides not to interfere.now you have to hope the points aren’t taken off you months later ir the trophies snatched back years later. Just stop messing about with it it’s a simple game

It just feeds the fire stick revolution. Why pay for a product that is getting worse by the season.

So from what i've seen, Forest could be looking at further points deducted taking the total to 10 points deducted.

Possibly Everton as well according to price of football podcast. Sheff Utd too far behind but may still give Burnley a chance of survival . Would make the end of the season interesting..

Quoted from Les Brechin

Scunny v Man City next season then?  

There’s still enough time for a Double Treble before judgement day …. then it’s Alty away on a wet Tuesday night, most Blues I know can’t wait