Just back

After watching that, I'm genuinely worried!..
Out battled, out thought, out Grimsby'd...
Our league form is terrible and doesn't look like changing anytime soon. One decent win, what is it now, last 9 games, 6 losses or something like that?.
Take the cup run out of this,  the league form is relegation form and for that fact Hurst has to be questioned, surely?.

Real lack of fight and professionalism. Just grind out a point. Did the hard work, got back in the game, threw it away. 5 at the back and we were defensively woeful.

After scoring we didnt know what we were doing. Should we attack, do we sit back? Infuriating

Stockwoods tweet was stupid at the time after the Crewe match, its made him look a bit of a mammary currently

Of course he should be questioned but the reality is his job is safe as houses, I’m not anti hurst but these results aren’t good enough.  I didn’t expect to walk the league I expected mid table but that’s starting to looks unlikely

It was a shocking performance. Think they'd only scored 7 goals at home all season hadn't they? Step up town...

I said this at the end of the transfer window, the problem isn't the quality of players brought in, it's our complete lack of balance. We have no one up front who can hold the ball up. No wingers. We're essentially having to play 5 at the back because we have no other options but it really doesn't work against route one teams.

Hopefully we can pick up some points over the next 2-3 games but if we don't, Hurst's position surely must be up for review. We're sleep walking into a relegation battle.

Efete and Maher switch off for the first, every fornicator headless chickens for the second. We looked pretty solid with 5 at the back before tonight. Wing backs, minus Glennon's cross for the goal were woeful and Glennon should have had an early bath for a wreckless lunge. Lloyd, who I thought was industrious in the first half, looked lost in the second. I don't think McAtee understands his role, though he did come close to scoring first half. Green was missed.

Well we’ve got 2 wingers in Wearne and Scanell who cant get a look in atm. Not sure why we’ve brought the former back and extended the latters deal if we arent going to give them a crack

On a positive note, there will be plenty of Southampton tickets that make it to general sale. We are in trouble, Harrogate looks the only winnable game this month but we all know what our home form is like. UTM

Right now there’s real lack of cohesion and purpose. Particularly between our midfield and attack.

No one can come out with much credit over the last couple of games but I would say that McAtee is looking a million miles off a Championship player and not doing much in the no.10 role. That said, we were poor across the whole pitch again tonight.

Quoted from Hagrid

Well we’ve got 2 wingers in Wearne and Scanell who cant get a look in atm. Not sure why we’ve brought the former back and extended the latters deal if we arent going to give them a crack

They are fit but not match fit

Quoted from Dave Gilberts Left Peg

They are fit but not match fit

Wearne is, or should be, he’s come back from being on loan

Wearne did nothing on Saturday.

Quoted from Hagrid

Wearne is, or should be, he’s come back from being on loan

I know mate, I was just saying what PH would say

Quoted from immariner

Efete and Maher switch off for the first, every fornicator headless chickens for the second. We looked pretty solid with 5 at the back before tonight. Wing backs, minus Glennon's cross for the goal were woeful and Glennon should have had an early bath for a wreckless lunge. Lloyd, who I thought was industrious in the first half, looked lost in the second. I don't think McAtee understands his role, though he did come close to scoring first half. Green was missed.

I’m not sure what you (and others) have seen in Lloyd other than a decent debut at Crewe, agree about the others you mentioned and could not agree more about Green, we don’t have anyone else like him and it shows. You need warriors in midfield in games lake this and last Saturday.

McAtee playing off Lloyd is “not sustainable” as the quality into the front like is very poor at the moment. I’m not a manager so don’t know the fix all I know is we need to try one.

The players do care a lot but that’s not reflected in their basics around retaining the ball and passing it, the decision making is woeful at times when we’re in good positions.

Hurst will survive regardless of whether we do or not.

What dapperz said really.

Cup run has been great financially, but it’ll mean fk all if we end up in a dogfight at the end of the season.

I really don’t want to do this again. The optimist in me says we won’t play another rugby team like Gillingham or Colchester again and we have 4 games in hand. The pessimist says we couldn’t do anything against Harrogate or Wimbledon either. And look who we’re playing Saturday.

Must admit the Scannell situation is quite a puzzle as we clearly need a wide man and he’s been sub in quite a few games but has hardly seen any action. If he needs to get match fit get him out on loeven if it’s to Clee Town or Grimsby Borough at least he will get some action. Saturday was crying out for a wide player and Wearne had a brief appearance but didn’t impress but that’s not a surprise given the quality of the team performance and limited time he had.

Scannell has the ability so why doesn’t he get on?

Quoted from 140381

Wearne did nothing on Saturday.

Harsh in the extreme. No game time all season with Town and thrown on as part of a desperate 4 man substitution in a game where all in black and white were really poor.

Not a time to judge him.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I’m not sure what you (and others) have seen in Lloyd other than a decent debut at Crewe, agree about the others you mentioned and could not agree more about Green, we don’t have anyone else like him and it shows. You need warriors in midfield in games lake this and last Saturday.

McAtee playing off Lloyd is “not sustainable” as the quality into the front like is very poor at the moment. I’m not a manager so don’t know the fix all I know is we need to try one.

The players do care a lot but that’s not reflected in their basics around retaining the ball and passing it, the decision making is woeful at times when we’re in good positions.

Hurst will survive regardless of whether we do or not.

Sorry bit to add, feels like we’re set up to play to McAtee’s strengths which I completely get, the problem being he looks a fair distance off his best as well.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Must admit the Scannell situation is quite a puzzle as we clearly need a wide man and he’s been sub in quite a few games but has hardly seen any action. If he needs to get match fit get him out on loeven if it’s to Clee Town or Grimsby Borough at least he will get some action. Saturday was crying out for a wide player and Wearne had a brief appearance but didn’t impress but that’s not a surprise given the quality of the team performance and limited time he had.

Scannell has the ability so why doesn’t he get on?

Probably doesn't fit the pre requisite of running until he drops. Bit like Orsi and JMD before him.

I think Lloyd may well be another in a long line of honest triers, which PH seems to favour over footballing ability.

That was crap but I think we were just beaten by a better team on the night. The Gillingham that was bottom of the table is a completely different side to the one that we faced. However there's no getting away from the fact that that was dire from us. We're so up and down it's ridiculous. Looked slightly better with Orsi on the pitch and I hope he starts at Northampton. Great cross from Glennon but other than that he was poor, any kind of impetus was taken out of most of our attacks as soon as the ball went out wide to Glennon or Efete. Efete was doing that frustrating thing he does when he makes all his runs across the defence instead of trying to just beat the full back but at least he tried to penetrate.

Quoted from cardiffmariner

Harsh in the extreme. No game time all season with Town and thrown on as part of a desperate 4 man substitution in a game where all in black and white were really poor.

Not a time to judge him.

It certainly is a time to judge him. Looks a Torquay player and should’ve stayed there.

Quoted from cardiffmariner

Harsh in the extreme. No game time all season with Town and thrown on as part of a desperate 4 man substitution in a game where all in black and white were really poor.

Not a time to judge him.

Nothing I’ve seen of Wearne convinces me that he’s an incremental improvement on what we already had in Sousa or Maguire Drew.

No doubt this season looks like it's falling apart and we're hoping for two teams to be worse than us.
The transfer window looks more underwhelming by the week and we desperately need a fit Ryan Taylor. Really hope we can put a couple of results together because if not it's going to be very squeaky

Gillingham have spent a lot of money since the new owners took over. Probably best to consider them as a play-off side (at the very least) as opposed to a team struggling near the bottom. 13 points from 18 is a lot better than any of the top 3 teams have managed over the past 6 games.

Doesn't make it any less disappointing to miss out on a point, however.

hurst has got to go he was crap at scunts and ipswich hurst out

Quoted from 140381

It certainly is a time to judge him. Looks a Torquay player and should’ve stayed there.

He looked good earlier in the season but follows the usual pattern. Gets dropped after a couple of bad results, hear noises about "having to be more aware of tracking back" goes out on loan and is then released. Rinse and repeat. Why doesn't he sign a team to play to a particular style? What is his style?

His record in league football has been very poor since his limited success at Shrewsbury and his lack of experienced signings in the window could hurt him and us.

Quoted from Maringer

Gillingham have spent a lot of money since the new owners took over. Probably best to consider them as a play-off side (at the very least) as opposed to a team struggling near the bottom. 13 points from 18 is a lot better than any of the top 3 teams have managed over the past 6 games.

Doesn't make it any less disappointing to miss out on a point, however.

Exactly. Tondeur kept mentioning how few goals they'd scored at home and I kept thinking "it's not the same team John so it's irrelevant". We weren't desperately awful tonight, especially in the first half, it was simply being so close to what would have been a decent point and chucking it away with rudderless defending, is immensely frustrating

Quoted from 140381

It certainly is a time to judge him. Looks a Torquay player and should’ve stayed there.

Based on 15 minutes on Saturday? Fair enough, but you’ll have to send everyone else on the pitch in black and white with him.

Quoted from cardiffmariner

Based on 15 minutes on Saturday? Fair enough, but you’ll have to send everyone else on the pitch in black and white with him.

Yep. Sidelined for a while, as a result of not breaking into the main team and then doing well at Torquay. Big game, here’s your chance. Meh.

Quoted from cardiffmariner

Based on 15 minutes on Saturday? Fair enough, but you’ll have to send everyone else on the pitch in black and white with him.

Are you his dad? If so, didn’t mean to go hard. But Torquay though.

Quoted from immariner

Exactly. Tondeur kept mentioning how few goals they'd scored at home and I kept thinking "it's not the same team John so it's irrelevant". We weren't desperately awful tonight, especially in the first half, it was simply being so close to what would have been a decent point and chucking it away with rudderless defending, is immensely frustrating

Rudderless defending ?? Or caving under pressure....they had much better quality out wide and delivered pretty consisrent crosses throughout the second half....Crocombe was hardly able to come and claim a ball such was the delivery.....compared to our one decent cross in the whole game.
The ball kept coming back as Lloyd and Mcatee never retained it.

Quoted from moosey_club

Rudderless defending ?? Or caving under pressure....they had much better quality out wide and delivered pretty consisrent crosses throughout the second half....Crocombe was hardly able to come and claim a ball such was the delivery.....compared to our one decent cross in the whole game.
The ball kept coming back as Lloyd and Mcatee never retained it.

Yeah, we lacked a leader/leaders pushing everyone out. Both goals came after periods where we dropped back for no clear reason.allowing them to push their wide players high to get those decent deliveries into the box. Lloyd and McAtee didn't do well enough to make the ball stick but neither did we do well enough to maintain possession in the middle of the park because the midfield 3 dropped too deep. Not sure how accurate they are but ifollow stats showed that their successful crossed were 40% and ours were a paltry 10%

Quoted from 140381

🔔

And what then?
I’m by no means his biggest fan but he took the reins at 2 basket case clubs and wasn’t given enough time to make his mark. You can include us in the basket case bracket as well when he took over from Holloway.
Yes the last 2 games have been awful and what worries me is we’re over halfway through the season and he still doesn’t seem to know his best team , formation or tactics .
However do you really think it’s time to get rid with the transfer window shut ? What manager do you think we could attract here and come in and make a big improvement ?
There are too many hysterical reactions . I wasn’t too high after the Luton game and expecting us to start tearing teams apart and get to the play offs and I’m not too despondent after the last 2 poor performances either.
Yes it was a disappointing window for various reasons but we’re not going to put right 20 years of failure overnight.
In my opinion we have enough to stay up , we didn’t expect to be back in the league this year so long as we don’t go down it’s a bonus.
Year on year improvement is what we are seeking. If we don’t get that then we all have a right to complain.
Worried ,yes. Panicking no.
Judge PH and the new owners at the end of the season.
Keep the faith.

Lol

Sorry Dazza I meant to quote smoking joe there. Had a few beers drowning my sorrows !

Not enough positivity going forward cost us . Too often the wide men chop back and pass square when the opportunity to attack the space gave Gillingham time to get back and defend when we could’ve got behind them . The one time glennon got a decent cross in we scored. We’ve got a quality player in Emmanuel sitting on the bench . Don’t get it . Orsi behind Lloyd? Don’t get it   .
We’re no way as bad as the team that went down last time but we’re getting dragged into trouble when there’s no way we should be . At least we’ve got games v Harrogate and Hartlepool at home and away at Crawley that could guarantee safety unless we fook them up .
We need serious reinforcements in the summer unless we want more of the same next season.

Quoted from Captaincod

Sorry Dazza I meant to quote smoking joe there. Had a few beers drowning my sorrows !

I feel your pain. No worries.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Not enough positivity going forward cost us . Too often the wide men chop back and pass square when the opportunity to attack the space gave Gillingham time to get back and defend when we could’ve got behind them . The one time glennon got a decent cross in we scored. We’ve got a quality player in Emmanuel sitting on the bench . Don’t get it . Orsi behind Lloyd? Don’t get it   .
We’re no way as bad as the team that went down last time but we’re getting dragged into trouble when there’s no way we should be . At least we’ve got games v Harrogate and Hartlepool at home and away at Crawley that could guarantee safety unless we fook them up .
We need serious reinforcements in the summer unless we want more of the same next season.

Down to having no wingers to speak of.

We are playing 5 at the back and the two wing backs are being relied upon to provide the thrust and the width, but they aren't really good enough to do it. Emmanuel will hopefully get better as he gets back to full fitness, and he can't play Saturday Tuesday at the moment. I have to say that I have been disappointed with Glennon since he came back, especially the defensive side of his game. He seems to be forever making last ditch tackles. Could be poor positioning, or lack of pace, or both.

We really are ponderous and samey in the middle of the pitch and the strikers are feeding on scraps. No decent through balls and no decent crosses to attack.

We were picking up good points earlier in the season when the defence was tight, but they have now become very leaky. I think a big part of that is down to the ball not sticking up front and them never getting a breather, The ball is coming back to them constantly.

Don't know if it is solely because of the Taylor injury, but our ball retention has been sorely lacking and the different units in the team don't currently appear to be working as one.

Never expected to beat Gillingham they have invested in the team .As have Colchester ,as Have Harrogate and many others .We chose not to spend on players and it's starting to show .With many games coming close together I think our lack of quality and depth will become even more apparent .But nothing we can do about it now

Never expected to beat Gillingham they have invested in the team .As have Colchester ,as Have Harrogate and many others .We chose not to spend on players and it's starting to show .With many games coming close together I think our lack of quality and depth will become even more apparent .But nothing we can do about it now

How did Clifton do in the middle ? LiveScore have him down centre mid

He did better than morris who didn’t do anything. Totally non existent.

Quoted from ginnywings

I have to say that I have been disappointed with Glennon since he came back, especially the defensive side of his game. He seems to be forever making last ditch tackles. Could be poor positioning, or lack of pace, or both.

This is what has surprised me about Glennon, as I thought he looked really good during his first spell at the club. Since his return, I've thought that he looks both slow and often lacking in fitness which is a surprise as I don't remember him as being the same during his initial loan. I agree entirely about the lunging, last-ditch tackles. Has he had some serious injury problems which might have affected his athleticism, even at such a young age?

On reflection things that struck me are we play with 2 wing backs Glennon has the skill but not the athleticism, strength and stamina, Amos is ahead of him and also has some belief to back himself and take players on, we needed that in the 2nd half especially, we need to cut Glennon some slack though as in terms of his senior career he’s developing still.

Efete is a great athlete and a competitor who despite his short comings will back himself and against poorer defenders and can get in behind but his delivery is not great.

Add to that a mid field three of Gav who at times looks like a world beater but is scruffy with the ball and his passing let’s him down, H who’s been great but again crisp passing is not his strength. Morris can pass but was/is too ponderous and went into crab mode quickly last night, probably in his defence as our movement is generally poor.

Lloyd again has a good attitude and looks to work hard but apart from a decent debut in the last 2 games I can’t see that he’s the answer but let’s be optimistic as he’ll need to find form. McAtee has quality he’s still not where we know he can be and to get there he needs some quality or at least craft around him.

We’re also missing Green as we have no other yard dog and Khan as he has quality in relation to his team mates. Also where’s Scanz? We need some experience when it’s not going well and currently it isn’t.

Personally I really like 3-5-2 when it works well but it’s not doing us any favours with the personnel we have and the levels of form. “Us shape” needs to change I suspect.

Biggest worry for me in the last two games is we’ve been “out Grimsby’d” in terms of physicality, application, pragmatism, fitness and competitiveness. The desire still exists but if we don’t get back the qualities that got us back into this league we may be in danger of getting pulled into a battle that sees us drop out of it.

Worried? Yes I am. Panicking? Not just yet, but let’s just hope there’s 3 or 4 sides who stay poorer than we currently are.

UTM!

McAtee was doing ok until he went flying through the gap in the advertising boards and landed heavily on the concrete so probably had the wind took out of him tbf

Scary times, however, i'm hopeful there a few worse than us.
Over the last 5 games, we've got 6 points.
Rochdale - 1
Hartlepool - 4
Crawley - 5
Harrogate - 5
so over the last 5 games, despite falling in league position, we've actually gained points on those below us.

Having said that, we are crap, and as I've said numerous times last month, we have been sleep walking into this for months, but the Cup run has covered it up.

Less than 20 games left, and we still have to play:
Harrogate - H
Crewe - H
Rochdale - H
Crawley - A
Hartlepool - H

It's all in our own hands, but we are also 2nd bottom in the 'home fixtures' table....

It;s going to be painful, but i think we have enough in the team to see us through

I've just listened to Hurst's post-match comments and he had a good moan about the referee. I didn't follow the game last night but the match stats show we gave away an enormous number of free-kicks. Sounds as though it was as much a case of the referee awarding them as us giving them away, however. Let's hope we get one or two on our side at some point. Or just some competent refereeing would be helpful.

Ultimately, the slump is due to our limited options up front - the ball is coming back at us too often and too easily and we're then not defending well enough to block the opposition out. I suspect we'd be much closer to the play-offs if Taylor hadn't become injured which makes it all the more frustrating that we never signed a backup for him.

We ought to have enough in the squad to avoid being dragged into the mire, but I'll be much happier when we've got a few more wins under our belts.

Why bring a substitute on after 89 mins.? Morris was shite all game and should have been off earlier.   No  plan B- I couldn't work out what plan A was.

Quoted from Norseman

Never expected to beat Gillingham they have invested in the team .As have Colchester ,as Have Harrogate and many others .We chose not to spend on players and it's starting to show .With many games coming close together I think our lack of quality and depth will become even more apparent .But nothing we can do about it now

Who did Harrogate invest in? What were the relative amounts spent by clubs on fees and wages? Do you actually know?

None of us know what will happen next but if the fans forum had been a couple of weeks earlier or tomorrow night,  it would have been a completely different scenario such is the vagaries of football.

It will be a real downer though if we are dragged into the scrap at the bottom even if we survive, as it will just reinforce our status as a bottom end league 2/ National league club making attracting players that bit harder.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

None of us know what will happen next but if the fans forum had been a couple of weeks earlier or tomorrow night,  it would have been a completely different scenario such is the vagaries of football.

It will be a real downer though if we are dragged into the scrap at the bottom even if we survive, as it will just reinforce our status as a bottom end league 2/ National league club making attracting players that bit harder.

What do you mean "if"?..we've already been dragged into it, don't care what anybody says in opposition to this but our form and performances say we are in that scrap now, we are scrapping to pull away from the bottom 4 now, and if I'm honest with myself, we keep getting chin ended and although, up to now we've got up before the count of 10, if this carries on im afraid its light out and the NL could well be beckoning again!...
I said a while ago that if we are in danger of being dragged onto a relegation fight with 10 games to go then Hurst and Co have to be replaced, seriously considering whether to rethink that and say give him 4 games to turn it around, if he can't say then say goodbye, with a huge thank you for 2016 and the memories of 2021/2022 season, as Lew says, if we finish bottom 4 then we sint getting the quality of player in the summer that we need to push the club forward, we'd just look like perennial league 2 strugglers again.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

What do you mean "if"?..we've already been dragged into it, don't care what anybody says in opposition to this but our form and performances say we are in that scrap now, we are scrapping to pull away from the bottom 4 now, and if I'm honest with myself, we keep getting chin ended and although, up to now we've got up before the count of 10, if this carries on im afraid its light out and the NL could well be beckoning again!...
I said a while ago that if we are in danger of being dragged onto a relegation fight with 10 games to go then Hurst and Co have to be replaced, seriously considering whether to rethink that and say give him 4 games to turn it around, if he can't say then say goodbye, with a huge thank you for 2016 and the memories of 2021/2022 season, as Lew says, if we finish bottom 4 then we sint getting the quality of player in the summer that we need to push the club forward, we'd just look like perennial league 2 strugglers again.

Well yes - perhaps I was being uncharacteristically positive!

When you look at our form, and our abysmal home form all season it is a real worry.

What is more than frustrating is having such a lackadaisical transfer window which was our only chance of getting the couple of experienced players we needed to steady the ship having let experienced players go.

Think our performance managed to make the refs performance go under the radar yesterday.

Pathetic display from him and as close to a blatantly biased performance I’ve seen in a long time, but it’s something you just grow to expect now.

Was the referee poor? Yes
Did his performance significantly influence the game or the result ? No

Doesn't matter who we play up front because we're feeding them scraps.  Lloyd showed in the Crewe game, yes I know they were excrement, that he can lead the line if he's given decent service.  Lumping it high and long doesn't play to his strengths at all.  For McAtee to be at his best he needs to have someone to work around and off.  If all he and his strike partner are doing is chasing hopeful balls then you might as well put someone else in.  

We lack a cuteness in the side, someone who can move the ball at pace and see openings happening.  You could painfully see last night that McAtee, Lloyd and the wingbacks all made decent runs into space early in the game but just got disheartened as the game went on and stopped doing so.  I like the idea of wingbacks because you can overload in the middle and then stretch teams with quick and crisp switching of the play.  The problem is we haven't got anyone who can do that.  Morris tries to switch play but he's too slow with it.

If it's 3 in the middle then Clifton is in there, in fact he's in there whatever as he's our best player.  You then need either Green or Holohan for extra energy, which frees up a bit of space for someone who can pick others out.  To my mind that's either Hunt playing as the deep on and told that's his job or it's an attack minded player (Scannell, Khan, maybe Wearne) who are given a bit of a free role.  Whichever option you go with dictates how high your wingbacks are, if you go Hunt they sit a bit deeper.  

At the minute it's a bit of a mess.  Morris sits deep but doesn't really control the game, he effectively becomes a fourth centre back.  Also because the ball isn't holding up top, the wingbacks don't get forward enough because they've no-one to bring them into play.  The central midfielder isn't picking them out either.  

I know Hunt hasn't done a lot since he came back but I'm not sure what role we're asking of him.  He was unplayable when he sat deep last season and just picked players out.  This year it's like we're asking him to be a box-to-box midfielder, which he isn't.  I get the physicality issue but if he's got Clifton and Green/Holohan ahead of him and Waterfall behind him, that's not something that worries me.

If we're sticking with wingbacks it has to look like this for me, take the pick with your strikers:  Personally I'd start Lloyd at the minute and then probably go O'Neill because McAtee looks shot.


                      Efete Waterfall Maher
Emmanuel                                              Amos
                                Hunt
                        Green   Clifton

                         ??          ??

                        

I’m surprised McAtee has been criticised for last night, he barely got chance to have a touch and produced most of our brightest moments. Came close 3 times from chances he created pretty much out of nothing.

Well, decided to sleep on it after getting back from Gillingham last night not in the best of moods.

I thought the game was won and lost in two phases of play really, where they ultimately scored. We showed an inability to weather those two sustained periods of pressure from Gillingham which ultimately killed us. We needed abit of leadership and calmness at those times and it wasn't there for whatever reason. To much panicking when the ball was being played in, not getting to the second ball or not working hard enough to stop the ball in the first place coupled with a complete failure to clear the ball effectively. When we did it wasn't far enough to get the turned and let us push out.

We spoke about being 'bullied' against Colchester, we we're better to some degree last night, but still needs much improvement.

A uniqueness with them last night though was corner after corner and cross after cross was also added to with those long throws. Ordinarily you put the ball out for a throw you can set up again and stop them getting easy ball we couldn't do that as, like I said, when we cleared the ball we weren't doing it effectively enough so it allowed them to keep that pressure on. I think that's where the game was won and loss to be fair.

There were a few other smaller issues with the performance that I didn't like, but nothing that affected the game as much as those two periods of play.

Other than those periods of pressure, we weren't great but think we did enough to be in the game and if we manage those situations effectively enough, we are all happy with a decent away point against a really improved Gillingham team.

I get people start to look behind us with abit of trepidation, especially after what we've been the last decade or so. I understand that, but personally I think we have more than enough, as we've demonstrated, to not be overly worried. I could be wrong, my wife will tell me I usually am! However I'm confident we will be ok based on what I've seen from us and others in this league.

Finally a word on the ref. I don't like doing it after a defeat because it looks like just moaning, but he was terrible - it's s a contact sport but every little piece of contact seemed to go their way but not ours in similar instances. Did not allow the game to flow at all, giving very dubious free kicks all night inviting them to lump it in to the box.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I’m surprised McAtee has been criticised for last night, he barely got chance to have a touch and produced most of our brightest moments. Came close 3 times from chances he created pretty much out of nothing.

he seems to be getting a few digs on twitter at the moment, i think its unfair, he's having to create things on his own.

McAtee - we love him and he's highly rated (Luton - obvs) because he's a bit different; has a touch of class
But... his decision making at times is awful; several times he wants to score a 'worldy' when a pass is the obvious choice (eg: last night second half - he shot when two GTFC players were running into the box)
Can't have it both ways I guess

I thought it was interesting last night in PH interview
He mentioned two strikers that Gillingham had 'bought' then he gave a very small laugh... I think he was saying "that's what we are up against"

A number on here moaning about our poor window - I agree that it was very frustrating and disappointing
But PH, owners, Debbie Cook, Tondeur (who must be in the know) all say how very few 'quality' players want to come here... location etc
Alternative? Pay them way over the odds, dressing room unrest, and potential threaten club financially

I'd snap your hand off for Colchester's front two - Akinde and Hopper - but why are they both there?
Money - location - it's obvious

Hurst said to JT "ask Tom Hopper why he didn't want to join us" - then added "he doesn't want to live around here"

So I think that shows we are trying like hell to get quality in the club

Oh for simpler days - Birtles, Futcher, Dave Smith...

Arguably, our 5 best performances this season have come against sides in a higher division. Remarkably, our aggregate score against those teams in the FA Cup so far is 13-4. That cannot be a coincidence, can it?

For me, we are technically and organisationally decent. Not outstandingly so, but comfortably good enough for League Two. However, it’s becoming increasingly apparent that we cannot match too many sides in League Two, physically. The winning goals against us in the last two games came from players 6ft 3” and 6ft 6” respectively.

We meanwhile have only two fit outfield players in the squad who are taller than 6ft. That is surely an anomaly for this division. Looking back, Buckley sides were notoriously small, but outrageously capable in terms of passing ability and general technical skill. We’re decent enough in that regard, but not quite enough to truly get away with it.

I don’t think it’s in Hurst playbook to assemble a team full of ‘units’. But, assuming we have enough in the tank to stay up this season, I think it’s something he absolutely has to look at in the summer.

This is a physical division, full of athletic players. It seems the consensus is that our best two players this season have been Luke Waterfall and Harry Clifton. Waterfall our biggest and most physically aggressive player, and Clifton our fittest and most mobile. Again, I don’t think there’s a coincidence in that.

I like our current squad, but I think therein lies the problem. They’re a likeable bunch. Too nice; not nasty or cute enough to compete consistently at this level.

Perhaps this is an oversimplification, but it seems to be the obvious difference between Town and the sides beating us of late.

Quoted from devs

McAtee - we love him and he's highly rated (Luton - obvs) because he's a bit different; has a touch of class
But... his decision making at times is awful; several times he wants to score a 'worldy' when a pass is the obvious choice (eg: last night second half - he shot when two GTFC players were running into the box)
Can't have it both ways I guess

I thought it was interesting last night in PH interview
He mentioned two strikers that Gillingham had 'bought' then he gave a very small laugh... I think he was saying "that's what we are up against"

A number on here moaning about our poor window - I agree that it was very frustrating and disappointing
But PH, owners, Debbie Cook, Tondeur (who must be in the know) all say how very few 'quality' players want to come here... location etc
Alternative? Pay them way over the odds, dressing room unrest, and potential threaten club financially

I'd snap your hand off for Colchester's front two - Akinde and Hopper - but why are they both there?
Money - location - it's obvious

Hurst said to JT "ask Tom Hopper why he didn't want to join us" - then added "he doesn't want to live around here"

So I think that shows we are trying like hell to get quality in the club

Oh for simpler days - Birtles, Futcher, Dave Smith...

Some players won't come here due to location obviously.  I doubt Hopper would have gone to Barrow say either as his wife's family are in Essex or something I read.

That is part and parcel of football and it is the manager's job to identify players who do not want to move to Essex and give players enough reasons to choose us.

Quoted from smokin joe

hurst has got to go he was crap at scunts and ipswich hurst out

Isn't it your bedtime?

Referees , Location, Pitch, 20 years of decay, things we weren’t expecting , getting to be a long list

Quoted from Poojah

Arguably, our 5 best performances this season have come against sides in a higher division. Remarkably, our aggregate score against those teams in the FA Cup so far is 13-4. That cannot be a coincidence, can it?

For me, we are technically and organisationally decent. Not outstandingly so, but comfortably good enough for League Two. However, it’s becoming increasingly apparent that we cannot match too many sides in League Two, physically. The winning goals against us in the last two games came from players 6ft 3” and 6ft 6” respectively.

We meanwhile have only two fit outfield players in the squad who are taller than 6ft. That is surely an anomaly for this division. Looking back, Buckley sides were notoriously small, but outrageously capable in terms of passing ability and general technical skill. We’re decent enough in that regard, but not quite enough to truly get away with it.

I don’t think it’s in Hurst playbook to assemble a team full of ‘units’. But, assuming we have enough in the tank to stay up this season, I think it’s something he absolutely has to look at in the summer.

This is a physical division, full of athletic players. It seems the consensus is that our best two players this season have been Luke Waterfall and Harry Clifton. Waterfall our biggest and most physically aggressive player, and Clifton our fittest and most mobile. Again, I don’t think there’s a coincidence in that.

I like our current squad, but I think therein lies the problem. They’re a likeable bunch. Too nice; not nasty or cute enough to compete consistently at this level.

Perhaps this is an oversimplification, but it seems to be the obvious difference between Town and the sides beating us of late.

Think that’s a great post mate that makes really salient points.

What I'd add to Poojah's post is that the Buckley team who got out of the 4th division might not have been massive they could definitely mix it physically. Lever, Tillson, Cunnington, Cockerill, Alexander and Rees was a spine that could mix it and win physical battles.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

What I'd add to Poojah's post is that the Buckley team who got out of the 4th division might not have been massive they could definitely mix it physically. Lever, Tillson, Cunnington, Cockerill, Alexander and Rees was a spine that could mix it and win physical battles.

You’re right, as usual. There’s definitely something in this.

Without checking, 3 home league wins and 3 home wins in the FAC.   More goals in the cup games against higher league teams.

These are curious stats to say the least.

We are a glass half full team, or a glass half empty team.

Or maybe both at the same time.

We have an issue with location, which we cannot change.  Therefore, we have to try harder and be smarter at every other factor.  

Yeah I was thinking that about the Buckley first era team. It definitely wasn't a team that could be pushed around.  Even the players who were smaller in stature like Dave Gilbert and Kev Jobling weren't afraid to get stuck in.  As that team established itself in the second tier he added the likes of Livvo, Graeme Rodger, Paul Groves who all had physical elements to their game.

Mk II era the same.  Mark Lever, Livvo, Groves, Alan Pouton, Jack Lester, even Lee Nogan who did the Tony Rees role of holding it all up, backing into players and taking a battering.  All lads who could put themselves about.

Mk III was obviously less successful and I think in some ways marked a change in his approach a little, he perhaps became too pure.  Whilst at the respective end of their careers, the likes of Gary Jones and Justin Whittle were sidelined a bit for less physical options.  Peter Till was someone who I'd argue summed up his approach, especially in the final months.  Nice, tidy, technical but lacked an oomph.

Quoted from chaos33

You’re right, as usual. There’s definitely something in this.

I think it's also fair to say we've just played the 2 most physical sides in our division.  The Gills were proper lump it merchants and the ref let them get away with murder, he also penalised our strikers for any physicality.

We hugely miss Taylor and I think Green would have really played a part had he been fit.

I watched the game and it could've gone either way, unlike others I don't doubt that the players worked hard and wanted to win. I'm not panicking I think we will be comfortably safe, be great to see us go on a good run.  

There aren't massive changes to make to this squad in the summer.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

There aren't massive changes to make to this squad in the summer.

There are if we aspire to more than another relegation battle.

Quoted from ska face

There are if we aspire to more than another relegation battle.

And we should. It had somewhat passed me by that Carlisle had crept up into the automatic promotion spots. A thousand less through the gates than us and even more remote. We mustn’t believe it isn’t doable.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Yeah I was thinking that about the Buckley first era team. It definitely wasn't a team that could be pushed around.  Even the players who were smaller in stature like Dave Gilbert and Kev Jobling weren't afraid to get stuck in.  As that team established itself in the second tier he added the likes of Livvo, Graeme Rodger, Paul Groves who all had physical elements to their game.

Mk II era the same.  Mark Lever, Livvo, Groves, Alan Pouton, Jack Lester, even Lee Nogan who did the Tony Rees role of holding it all up, backing into players and taking a battering.  All lads who could put themselves about.

Mk III was obviously less successful and I think in some ways marked a change in his approach a little, he perhaps became too pure.  Whilst at the respective end of their careers, the likes of Gary Jones and Justin Whittle were sidelined a bit for less physical options.  Peter Till was someone who I'd argue summed up his approach, especially in the final months.  Nice, tidy, technical but lacked an oomph.

Bobby. Cumming 5ft 7 or 8 was the hardest footballer I have seen as Norman Hunter or Alan Clarke would no doubt testify if they were still alive. Pre Buckley era.

Quoted from Poojah

And we should. It had somewhat passed me by that Carlisle had crept up into the automatic promotion spots. A thousand less through the gates than us and even more remote. We mustn’t believe it isn’t doable.

I completely agree it's doable, doesn't mean it's not difficult. They've been in this division for years and been unable to get out.

I fancy we will finish mid table this season and kick on next season.

The key has to be adding improved quality. We've got some pretty good players already at this level.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I completely agree it's doable, doesn't mean it's not difficult. They've been in this division for years and been unable to get out.

I fancy we will finish mid table this season and kick on next season.

The key has to be adding improved quality. We've got some pretty good players already at this level.

Who are our pretty good players at this level? I can name 4, maybe 5.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Who are our pretty good players at this level? I can name 4, maybe 5.

Crocombe
Efete
Smith
Maher
Waterfall
Clifton
Holohan
Khan
Mcatee

Would all easily get other teams at this level. I fancy Clifton could easily play higher. I think Maher and Efete will improve to get moves.

I'm unsure about the rest of the squad, most of them are steady squad players.

Quoted from Poojah

And we should. It had somewhat passed me by that Carlisle had crept up into the automatic promotion spots. A thousand less through the gates than us and even more remote. We mustn’t believe it isn’t doable.

I wouldn't say Carlisle is more remote then Grimsby. It has the M6 running past it just a few miles away. Barrow maybe, but I wouldn't class Carlisle as MORE remote.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Crocombe
Efete
Smith
Maher
Waterfall
Clifton
Holohan
Khan
Mcatee

Would all easily get other teams at this level. I fancy Clifton could easily play higher. I think Maher and Efete will improve to get moves.

I'm unsure about the rest of the squad, most of them are steady squad players.

Two of them aren’t ours. I’d probably leave Efete and Holohan off my list simply because they’re very inconsistent.

Quoted from Les Brechin

I wouldn't say Carlisle is more remote then Grimsby. It has the M6 running past it just a few miles away. Barrow maybe, but I wouldn't class Carlisle as MORE remote.

Carlisle is some 70 miles further north than Barrow; just over 2 hours from Manchester - only about 20 mins closer than Grimsby is for context. It does have Newcastle an hour and a half away, but there aren’t a wealth of seasoned League 1 / 2 players living that way for obvious reasons.

Within a ~90 minute drive of Grimsby are several EFL clubs including Hull, Lincoln, Doncaster, Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Bradford, Huddersfield, Barnsley and Rotherham. You can add Premier League clubs Leeds and Nottingham Forest to that list.

I get that location doesn’t work in our favour as much as it might for Manchester or London based clubs, but those clubs also face a far greater fight for support given some of the massive clubs on their doorstep.

I suspect that the long-standing reputation of the club, and to a lesser extent the image of the town (right or wrong) trump location as an issue. The good news is that our reputation can, in time, be restored.

Quoted from Poojah

Carlisle is some 70 miles further north than Barrow; just over 2 hours from Manchester - only about 20 mins closer than Grimsby is for context. It does have Newcastle an hour and a half away, but there aren’t a wealth of seasoned League 1 / 2 players living that way for obvious reasons.

Within a ~90 minute drive of Grimsby are several EFL clubs including Hull, Lincoln, Doncaster, Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Bradford, Huddersfield, Barnsley and Rotherham. You can add Premier League clubs Leeds and Nottingham Forest to that list.

I get that location doesn’t work in our favour as much as it might for Manchester or London based clubs, but those clubs also face a far greater fight for support given some of the massive clubs on their doorstep.

I suspect that the long-standing reputation of the club, and to a lesser extent the image of the town (right or wrong) trump location as an issue. The good news is that our reputation can, in time, be restored.

That is an excellent explanation of the location issue. We simply have not got a good enough story to sell due to years of being in the doldrums, and we haven't yet counteracted that with wages that would attract some waverers.

Location will always be a problem for some players, be it Barrow, Exeter, Carlisle or Hartlepool or even some bigger cities with their increased living costs or whatever the reasons might be, but if we can get our reputation sorted we will be halfway there. The trouble is if we finish in the bottom few again our reputation will not be enhanced this time around so it goes on. In the summer, whatever the longer term plans we need to pay more to attract better players on our hit list.

Just re-reading this from last night. Didn’t remember some of my posts. Oh dear. Safe to say a lot of it was tongue in cheek.

I’m as p1ssed off as anyone. Please do a win Town, my liver is begging you.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Two of them aren’t ours. I’d probably leave Efete and Holohan off my list simply because they’re very inconsistent.

I'd leave efete out because he isn't very good with the ball I'm afraid (although an excellent athlete so hes good without it)

Quoted from Les Brechin

I wouldn't say Carlisle is more remote then Grimsby. It has the M6 running past it just a few miles away. Barrow maybe, but I wouldn't class Carlisle as MORE remote.

It is more remote in distance from footballing hubs .Couple of hours north on Manchester .Manchester to GY is about the same .Also hell of a lot further north from the Midlands and the south than we are

Quoted from HerveJosse

Bobby. Cumming 5ft 7 or 8 was the hardest footballer I have seen as Norman Hunter or Alan Clarke would no doubt testify if they were still alive. Pre Buckley era.

I agree about Bob. And Allan Clarke can still testify to the fact. He’s still alive!

Few years out of date but this should give an idea as to how isolated and far from other populations Carlisle is.

https://luminocity3d.org/indexRetina.html#population_density_2011/8/54.570/-2.791

Quoted from diehardmariner

Few years out of date but this should give an idea as to how isolated and far from other populations Carlisle is.

https://luminocity3d.org/indexRetina.html#population_density_2011/8/54.570/-2.791

Your map also highlights the significant conurbations where players can live, not move home, and hardly incur any travelling costs in terms of time and money between moving clubs. The location of Grimsby shows how far away we are, yes there is the M180 but a 2 hours trip from your home is probably 5 gallons per day, say 4 days a week @ (say) £6.50 is £130 per week for (say) 45 weeks is over £5,000 per year. Plus the extra 4 hours per day travelling, 16 hours a week additional time away from your family for just travelling.

Whilst some on here say travelling is not a problem for them the above, approximate figures, just illustrate the situation we have with regard to location. Some will say players are on good money, but it's a short career, and £5,000+ will certainly pay for a good family holiday in the summer without adding to a family budget.

Quoted from DB

Your map also highlights the significant conurbations where players can live, not move home, and hardly incur any travelling costs in terms of time and money between moving clubs. The location of Grimsby shows how far away we are, yes there is the M180 but a 2 hours trip from your home is probably 5 gallons per day, say 4 days a week @ (say) £6.50 is £130 per week for (say) 45 weeks is over £5,000 per year. Plus the extra 4 hours per day travelling, 16 hours a week additional time away from your family for just travelling.

Whilst some on here say travelling is not a problem for them the above, approximate figures, just illustrate the situation we have with regard to location. Some will say players are on good money, but it's a short career, and £5,000+ will certainly pay for a good family holiday in the summer without adding to a family budget.

I’d argue our location is not optimal, but not necessarily completely sub-optimal either. At the present moment, Carlisle, Exeter and Plymouth (though admittedly a larger population) are doing alright. Norwich certainly ain’t an easy commute.

Football careers aren’t like regular careers. For a player at League Two level, there are likely no more than 10 or 15 realistic employers for a player at a given time, spread throughout the country. I think there’s a realistic understanding that you either have to move on a regular basis, or commit to a decent commute for large spells of your career. The latter can be tempered by the fact that the working day for a footballer is shorter than most.

If you look at the map below, there is a sizeable strip of dense population from Leeds down to Leicester that falls within a two hour drive of Grimsby. Granted, there may be other clubs within that same region that may be competing for the same players, but not that many at this moment in time (with most clubs playing at a higher level).

For me, that’s a fair pool of talent to be fishing in, plus the odd player outside of it who may be willing to relocate. This isn’t an argument that our location is perfect; it isn’t. But it’s also not that bad either, and factors such as money, reputation, facilities and perceived likelihood of success are all in front of geography as a blocker, in my opinion.

[img]https://preview.redd.it/population-density-map-england-v0-x73ycn8qys7a1.jpg?auto=webp&s=0ca1bc7b80634f70ed8be06ceec10367c3b33493[/img]

Quoted from Poojah

I’d argue our location is not optimal, but not necessarily completely sub-optimal either. At the present moment, Carlisle, Exeter and Plymouth (though admittedly a larger population) are doing alright. Norwich certainly ain’t an easy commute.

Football careers aren’t like regular careers. For a player at League Two level, there are likely no more than 10 or 15 realistic employers for a player at a given time, spread throughout the country. I think there’s a realistic understanding that you either have to move on a regular basis, or commit to a decent commute for large spells of your career. The latter can be tempered by the fact that the working day for a footballer is shorter than most.

If you look at the map below, there is a sizeable strip of dense population from Leeds down to Leicester that falls within a two hour drive of Grimsby. Granted, there may be other clubs within that same region that may be competing for the same players, but not that many at this moment in time (with most clubs playing at a higher level).

For me, that’s a fair pool of talent to be fishing in, plus the odd player outside of it who may be willing to relocate. This isn’t an argument that our location is perfect; it isn’t. But it’s also not that bad either, and factors such as money, reputation, facilities and perceived likelihood of success are all in front of geography as a blocker, in my opinion.

[img]https://preview.redd.it/population-density-map-england-v0-x73ycn8qys7a1.jpg?auto=webp&s=0ca1bc7b80634f70ed8be06ceec10367c3b33493[/img]

I agree with so much of what you say, but I really don't think there is a problem except on the margins. Just look at where our current squad have come from with their previous clubs - all over the UK.

The margins involve players who might have better offers, usually financial and of course they won't come if we can't match wages.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I agree with so much of what you say, but I really don't think there is a problem except on the margins. Just look at where our current squad have come from with their previous clubs - all over the UK.

The margins involve players who might have better offers, usually financial and of course they won't come if we can't match wages.

I don't think matching wages is enough. If you live an hour's drive plus away, you're far more likely to sign for a club half an hour away for the same money.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I don't think matching wages is enough. If you live an hour's drive plus away, you're far more likely to sign for a club half an hour away for the same money.

But that applies to so many other locations because it depends where you are starting from and the offers you get!

What we need to know is the percentage of players who relocate compared to the amount of players who prefer not to move.

Looking at our current squad who we signed from all over the UK you have to assume most of them have relocated or come to arrangements to suit them.

Muddy Waters has nailed it.  

Forget the players who relocate from miles away, the majority of our signings will come from a commutable distance.  From nearly all points of the country with significant populations, there are many more football clubs at this level that are closer to them than us.

Even if we offer comparative wages, it makes it a hard sell to ask someone to travel an extra xx minutes a day.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Muddy Waters has nailed it.  

Forget the players who relocate from miles away, the majority of our signings will come from a commutable distance.  From nearly all points of the country with significant populations, there are many more football clubs at this level that are closer to them than us.

Even if we offer comparative wages, it makes it a hard sell to ask someone to travel an extra xx minutes a day.

How come we sign so many players from far afield then? They are in a diffrent situation but Scunthorpe have been signing players by the shed load and one today from Yeovil. Not a location hot spot is Scunny.

The main issue is wages, like it is for the majority of us. If in demand players get better offers they will go there.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

How come we sign so many players from far afield then? They are in a diffrent situation but Scunthorpe have been signing players by the shed load and one today from Yeovil. Not a location hot spot is Scunny.

The main issue is wages, like it is for the majority of us. If in demand players get better offers they will go there.

My point is that decent L2 players who might be in demand, are going to want more money if their daily commute is an hour or more longer.

Scunny can do what they want. I’m not bothered how and what they do.

Going over the same old ground here...

But I don't think the fact we've historically signed players from all over the country indicates that we can't sign players.  We're talking about the better players aren't we?

There's always players available.  Hurst could sign 10 tomorrow who are without a club, doesn't mean they're good enough or anywhere near the first choices on his list.  

Wages are an issue.  But as pointed out by others further up the list, as is location - well highlighted by the extra costs with travelling.

We can't move the Town so we're stuck with the problem.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

My point is that decent L2 players who might be in demand, are going to want more money if their daily commute is an hour or more longer.

Scunny can do what they want. I’m not bothered how and what they do.

It depends on so many factors though! Where are they based now?? It might not be half an hour more if we and another club are in for the same player! They don't have a smorgasbord of places to choose from.

I do agree it is the in-demand players we struggle with and have said so dozens of times, but if we cannot compete with wages they are not going to give us a look in regardless of location.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It depends on so many factors though! Where are they based now?? It might not be half an hour more if we and another club are in for the same player! They don't have a smorgasbord of places to choose from.

I do agree it is the in-demand players we struggle with and have said so dozens of times, but if we cannot compete with wages they are not going to give us a look in regardless of location.

You're right, it's the same old problem but doesn't make it any less frustrating.

That said, you don't need a very long memory to remember an interview last season in which a board member stated that we were going to make GTFC more attractive to incoming players.

The relevant point isn't about the players we have signed regardless of our location, it's about the (possibly better) ones who turned us down because of it. If we're having to offer players of a particular standard more money to move/commute here or than many of our opponents, it means we're immediately at a disadvantage as our budget won't stretch as far as it otherwise might do. And, of course, we have examples such as Hopper (and many others) who turn us down flat.

No coincidence that we've tended to get players on their way downwards in their careers rather than those looking upwards, especially in recent years.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It depends on so many factors though! Where are they based now?? It might not be half an hour more if we and another club are in for the same player! They don't have a smorgasbord of places to choose from.

I do agree it is the in-demand players we struggle with and have said so dozens of times, but if we cannot compete with wages they are not going to give us a look in regardless of location.

Do you know that we are not competing on wages, or do you think we should offer more than other teams to get the players we want?