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 WOZOFGRIMSBY |
| February 13, 2023, 1:50pm |
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But as a result of those 20 years, the underlying conditions and collateral damage is way worse than it should have been. JS and AP are not scared to put money in, the playing budget will increase every season and off field improvements are going to be incremental. £5-6m for a new training ground, I suspect getting the ground anything like will cost something similar. It might take 10 years to repair the damage and get us up to speed with our infrastructure.
I was going to say the same tbh. But, groundwise the main/osmond need addressing and that isn’t a quick fix. Or a Cheap one at that. I watch the games on a Saturday and think how gut wrenching it would be to leave the old girl. |
| Rose is on fire
And your scotch eggs are fu(king vile |
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| forza ivano |
| February 13, 2023, 4:58pm |
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Just for clarity, as some seem to be getting confused. The break-even attendance will be different every season, to not make a loss this season we need to average 8k per week. In the previous seasons under Voldemort, the break-even attendance would be low as there wasn't any money being spent on the team, ground, or anything at all. Next season, with all the FA Cup money the break-even attendance might be lower.
excellent point. And if I might just add that an efficiently functioning commercial department, taking advantage of the current levels of enthusiasm and support, should be able to bring in more £££ and lessen that break even figure even further should also add; DC said improving the toilets would cost £150,000 .A walk in fan pays approx £450 for a seasons , that means just to do that 1 project we'd need an extra 350 fans to pay for it |
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| BobbyCummingsTackle |
| February 13, 2023, 5:22pm |
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I guess it depends on what is included in the break even running of a club? Have they included transfer, signing on and agents' fees in the break even but not transfer monies received? To me this would make sense as you are likely to have to spend to get the players in but there is no guarantee you will get a transfer fee for players going out so include incomings in your day-to-day costs but not outgoings? A quick back of envelope calculation has the net income at about £3.1M for 8000 gates based on an average of £20 per head (I know it is hard to quantify due to discounted season tickets and concessions being included in this). I read we have 30 pros so at £800 per week average that's £1.25M plus on costs and that's before we look at all the back room and office staff. Then we have the upkeep of the ground, training ground, utility bills (although hopefully we are getting some discount here!!), travel costs and any improvements made, like you say.
[/b]For this season[b] then I can see a value near 8000 being break even if we are not including transfer fees received but there is nothing to say that it won't be closer to 6000, 5500 etc. once the improvements have been embedded... although that may not be next season.
Yep, agree with all of this. I was trying to keep it simple in my post. Break even is, of course, where outgoings equal income so all of your points above are correct as well as factoring in sponsorship income, match day 'corporate entertainment' and so on. It still seems an optimistic number. |
| Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice. |
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| ginnywings |
| February 13, 2023, 7:19pm |
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I seem to recall AP saying at the forum that when they took over the ground had its annual inspection. It then had to have a 10 year ( probably more in-depth ) inspection which they were not aware of. This could have highlighted more expense which was not in the plan but had to be carried out for ground safety.
'Tis true. I ended up doing as much work for the club as I did for the Trust on the fanzone. Already mentioned the fire door I fitted and it wasn't the only urgent job. Tens of thousands spent on sand blasting and painting the badly rusted iron work in the Osmond being another, among many many more. There were tradesmen doing jobs all around the ground and it couldn't have been cheap. I wondered at the time if JF knew it was coming and had a part in his decision to jump ship. I also wondered how the club had gotten away with it for so long, but I have my theories on that. However, thinking about it, I can't see how it is affecting budgets and break even points 18 months later. I don't know if 8000 is the true figure for break even, and there are other clubs surviving on smaller crowds, but then I suppose the difference is that they have individuals putting in more of their personal wealth, and that way lies trouble if it all goes t1ts up. It is the stated aim of our new owners that they want to make the club sustainable in the long term, but that is going to take time to achieve, and there will have to be a lot of extra money spent at the start of proceedings. |
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| HerveJosse |
| February 13, 2023, 8:00pm |
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excellent point. And if I might just add that an efficiently functioning commercial department, taking advantage of the current levels of enthusiasm and support, should be able to bring in more £££ and lessen that break even figure even further
should also add; DC said improving the toilets would cost £150,000 .A walk in fan pays approx £450 for a seasons , that means just to do that 1 project we'd need an extra 350 fans to pay for it
Improving the toilets is capital expenditure spread the cost over at least 10 years on your figures that’s 35 extra supporters. Also don’t have to do all the toilets around the ground could do one stand a year if they want to spread the cash flow cost. Also I believe grants may be available for this type of work. The toilets are a symbol of the decay of the last twenty years and to say we can’t afford to do them is the wrong call in my opinion |
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| MuddyWaters |
| February 13, 2023, 8:36pm |
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Improving the toilets is capital expenditure spread the cost over at least 10 years on your figures that’s 35 extra supporters. Also don’t have to do all the toilets around the ground could do one stand a year if they want to spread the cash flow cost. Also I believe grants may be available for this type of work.
The toilets are a symbol of the decay of the last twenty years and to say we can’t afford to do them is the wrong call in my opinion
Every £100k of expenditure, whether that’s on capital or staff is 5000 seat sales. In other words 200+ seats per home game. |
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| Norseman |
| February 13, 2023, 11:22pm |
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So, break even could be based on the plans in place to spend money (I don't know what they are) this financial year and so JS and AP know that if the club doesn't generate that income they will have to find it or find a way to bridge the gap. It's planned, everyone knows about it and nobody is sweating it. And a cup run is very welcome!
But, I find it almost impossible to believe that the 'general' break even point is based on ticket sales of 8000. Anyone with more than a passing interest in Town will know that we haven't had those kinds of crowds regularly for years and that the ground only has capacity for 9000!
And neither do many clubs in league 1 or 2 get 8000 ticket sales paying far higher wages. .I know a couple of fools responded to my post with sarcasm .Which I wouldn't dignify with an answer. I was definitely told it was 4400 last season by someone who really knows the break even figures for each year .Not saying it hasn't increased or that some other valid points regarding lack of investment over the years are wide of the mark .But by 3600 seems incredible |
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| Yoda |
| February 13, 2023, 11:29pm |
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If the figure is 8000 that is concerning, next season ticket sales will drop a bit on this years.
How do teams manage on much lower attendance figures than us.
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| MuddyWaters |
| February 14, 2023, 6:55am |
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If the figure is 8000 that is concerning, next season ticket sales will drop a bit on this years.
How do teams manage on much lower attendance figures than us.
Our current win percentage at home in the league is 23% (3 from 13). If continued, we might win two, maybe three, more home games this season. That’s bound to impact on how many renew STs next season. |
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| lukeo |
| February 14, 2023, 8:55am |
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If the figure is 8000 that is concerning, next season ticket sales will drop a bit on this years.
How do teams manage on much lower attendance figures than us.
I assume its so high this season due to the ongoing work at BP, the training ground etc etc... I can only assume that figure will drop slightly next year and possibly the year after. I get people questioning it and wondering how or why but let's just trust the guys. They're proper fans and care about the club as much as us. The fans forum was fantastic and I might even watch it again this week. Utm |
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