POLICE NOT AT FAULT!!!

Another denial by the police that they were not responsible for law & order before the England game:-

"The Met Police has denied its policing operation at the Euro 2020 final failed, claiming it had warned Wembley that many ticketless fans were on the way."

The simple question is Why didn't they stop them?

"There were police officers there about 50 in groups of 10. They were standing too far back though, weren't getting involved or were too late if something happened."

The FA said the majority of the trouble happened in areas that were the responsibility of police.

The Met's statement appeared to be aimed at defending itself against suggestions poor policing was to blame for an incident..

This highlights the extreme poor policing at football matches, they never seem to learn and when things go wrong it's never their fault.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57841689

Incidentally, this report was pulled from the main news headline in the early hours and left on the London pages. I wonder why? Surely, not another criticism the police found upsetting.

Why can't "fans" behave in a responsible manner in a civilized world ? . I bet they all blamed their teacher for getting crap grades too .

The folk trying to get in are technically to blame but the Met were seemingly given plenty of intelligence and failed to utilise it…

It is the duty of the police to deal with public order issues where they arise - literally, that's their job, one in which they failed miserably. They are certainly due criticism.

From the reports it sounds as though it was just luck that people weren't seriously injured by the people who forced their way in with no thought for others (just cracked ribs for Harry Maguire's dad).

The behaviour of these self-interested people - I don't like to think of them as fans - is an embarrassment to the nation. I hope they throw the book at those who can be identified.

You cannot blame the police for a bunch of brain dead thugs turning up without tickets and forcing their way in .It's way to easy to blame someone else  . They are old enough but obviously not intelligent enough to know better .

Quoted from ancientmariner54

You cannot blame the police for a bunch of brain dead thugs turning up without tickets and forcing their way in .It's way to easy to blame someone else  . They are old enough but obviously not intelligent enough to know better .

So South Yorkshire police were not to blame then regarding Hillsboro ?

Quoted from ancientmariner54

You cannot blame the police for a bunch of brain dead thugs turning up without tickets and forcing their way in .It's way to easy to blame someone else  . They are old enough but obviously not intelligent enough to know better .

You can't blame the police for the existence of those people, no. But we know they exist, and the police would have been aware of potential for trouble at an England major tournament final, and it's literally their job to manage those situations.

It's like prison officers neglecting their duties and allowing a riot to break out, and them then saying "not our fault some of our prisoners are violent"...

I suppose that strictly speaking they were not at fault. The problem was idiots like this.

[url] https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/england-football-yob-boasts-12-24538423[/url]

Quoted from It Bites

Why can't "fans" behave in a responsible manner in a civilized world ? . I bet they all blamed their teacher for getting crap grades too .

If all people behaved in a responsible manner there would be no need to have a police force. Their existence is to control (where possible) the idiots in our society !!  On Sunday they failed in their job.
Doesn’t excuse the moronic behaviour in any way though.

The scruffy bastads want hosing down with a water cannon. Absolute shambles. The tournament was a real tonic and yet all media attention over the last two days has unsurprisingly been monopolised by these scumbags and the racist inadequates on social media. Fuckin' depressing.

Spoke to my mate last night whose brother was in this part of the ground that was stormed. As he was walking into the game someone offered him £200 to "hug" him as he walked in. He told him to fook off. He then said "give me your ticket or I'll stab you".  Again told him to fook off. Got into the ground and still lost his seat to the ticketless hordes.

Quoted from DB

Another denial by the police that they were not responsible for law & order before the England game:-

"The Met Police has denied its policing operation at the Euro 2020 final failed, claiming it had warned Wembley that many ticketless fans were on the way."

The simple question is Why didn't they stop them?

"There were police officers there about 50 in groups of 10. They were standing too far back though, weren't getting involved or were too late if something happened."

The FA said the majority of the trouble happened in areas that were the responsibility of police.

The Met's statement appeared to be aimed at defending itself against suggestions poor policing was to blame for an incident..

This highlights the extreme poor policing at football matches, they never seem to learn and when things go wrong it's never their fault.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57841689

Incidentally, this report was pulled from the main news headline in the early hours and left on the London pages. I wonder why? Surely, not another criticism the police found upsetting.

I received a few X for this post and wondered why?. Outside Wembley the police are responsible for law and order and when they have information that acts of vandalism etc. are to take place they should act. The so-called fans who broke into the ground to see the match are not real fans, otherwise, they could have watched the match on the telly like the rest of the 30+ million.

In general, I am a supporter of the police but I do continue to read of many issues with the police and football games. After Hillsborough and the various subsequent investigations, you would think that the police would have got their act together.

It has already been suggested on another thread that our Stockport away game has been changed to an evening fixture on police advice. What is the police advice based on? We haven't played away at Stockport for years!. In fact, there hasn't been spectators at games for over 12 months!

The whole issue does not bode well for the integrity of the Police.

Blame game!

There goes GB and Ireland's 2030 WC bid. Thanks to the scum.

I blame the top cop for not getting a grip....  

https://twitter.com/pcolemanchester/status/1415313385017823234?s=21

Quoted from MarinerWY

You can't blame the police for the existence of those people, no. But we know they exist, and the police would have been aware of potential for trouble at an England major tournament final, and it's literally their job to manage those situations.

It's like prison officers neglecting their duties and allowing a riot to break out, and them then saying "not our fault some of our prisoners are violent"...

I wonder what the situation might have been like if the final had been held in Mansfield given how many police they have turn up to monitor our fans when we've played there.....

Quoted from It Bites

Why can't "fans" behave in a responsible manner in a civilized world ? . I bet they all blamed their teacher for getting crap grades too .

If all people behaved in a responsible manner there would need to have a police force. Their existence is to control (where possible) the idiots in our society !!  On Sunday they failed in their job.
Doesn’t excuse the moronic behaviour in any way though.

The shambolic Met Police under Cressida male private are blameless for everything they are involved in, under her watch there has been scandal after scandal with the common denomintor being her refusal to take any responsibility and seeming to never be held to account for amounts to utter incompetance.

There is another issue here. The police charge for attending football and it's expensive. Clubs have been desperate to reduce their policing bill for years by relying on stewards (you don't see the number of police in the ground that you did in the past) and I assume it's the same at Wembley and similar venues.

It works well when the stewards are basically herding people in the right direction, chucking out some solo d*ckhead for being a bit lippy and keeping the emergency exits clear. It falls down when things like Sunday happen and they're not equipped for it. The police are then called in after things have got out of hand.

You also have to ask questions about the boneheads who attacked Italian fans ON THE CONCOURSE. How did they get there and why did it take so long to deal with them? Most of them were obviously legless and wouldn't have taken too much controlling.

I am surprised by all of this. I'm usually in awe of the organisation at Wembley when I've been.

Probably because this final attracted more than the usual fair share of knobheads.

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

So South Yorkshire police were not to blame then regarding Hillsboro ?

I’d like the who ever red crossed this to explain their thoughts then , cmon show some balls and back it up because South Yorkshire police were fully to blame for the loss of 96 pour souls in my eyes

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

I’d like the who ever red crossed this to explain their thoughts then , cmon show some balls and back it up because South Yorkshire police were fully to blame for the loss of 96 pour souls in my eyes

I'll tell you who were to blame, all those foul football fans of the era who meant as a child I was caged in at football matches. The fences caused the problem. The fences were only there due to idiots. The blame lays with them.

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

I’d like the who ever red crossed this to explain their thoughts then , cmon show some balls and back it up because South Yorkshire police were fully to blame for the loss of 96 pour souls in my eyes

I didn’t red cross this or your previous post but there is no way SY Police were ‘fully to blame’ for the tragedy.

There were many contributing factors (discussed several times on this forum) and the police were certainly partially to blame.

However, if the British public weren’t such morons and a significant element of British ‘football fans’ caused so much trouble in the 70s and 80s, there would have been no need for small pens and the fencing. It is highly unlikely that anyone would have died without this.

Likewise, I realise that Liverpool fans weren’t solely to blame for Heysel but the behaviour of a minority of their ‘fans’ contributed to the deaths of 39 people.

Quoted from DB

I received a few X for this post and wondered why?. Outside Wembley the police are responsible for law and order and when they have information that acts of vandalism etc. are to take place they should act. The so-called fans who broke into the ground to see the match are not real fans, otherwise, they could have watched the match on the telly like the rest of the 30+ million.

In general, I am a supporter of the police but I do continue to read of many issues with the police and football games. After Hillsborough and the various subsequent investigations, you would think that the police would have got their act together.

It has already been suggested on another thread that our Stockport away game has been changed to an evening fixture on police advice. What is the police advice based on? We haven't played away at Stockport for years!. In fact, there hasn't been spectators at games for over 12 months!

The whole issue does not bode well for the integrity of the Police.

This happened within the grounds of Wembley , which is controlled by civilian staff and backed up by Police when needed

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I didn’t red cross this or your previous post but there is no way SY Police were ‘fully to blame’ for the tragedy.

There were many contributing factors (discussed several times on this forum) and the police were certainly partially to blame.

However, if the British public weren’t such morons and a significant element of British ‘football fans’ caused so much trouble in the 70s and 80s, there would have been no need for small pens and the fencing. It is highly unlikely that anyone would have died without this.

Likewise, I realise that Liverpool fans weren’t solely to blame for Heysel but the behaviour of a minority of their ‘fans’ contributed to the deaths of 39 people.

You’re right that there were many factors, but significant numbers of people would have still died without the fencing. I don’t think everyone who died was at the front.

PS Not excusing the Liverpool hooligans at Heysel, but didn’t that wall collapse because it was poorly maintained?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

PS Not excusing the Liverpool hooligans at Heysel, but didn’t that wall collapse because it was poorly maintained?

Yes, similarly to Hillsborough, the stadium was not fit for purchase and the ticketing situation and segregation was a mess.

However, if the hooligan element had behaved, it’s unlikely events would have unfolded as they did.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You’re right that there were many factors, but significant numbers of people would have still died without the fencing. I don’t think everyone who died was at the front.

You’re correct as far as I know. Although without the fence, fans would have been able to spill out on to the pitch more easily and quickly.

That’s assuming the police wouldn’t have drawn their batons and stopped the fans from getting on to the pitch, without realising the reasons for it!

Quoted from supertown

This happened within the grounds of Wembley , which is controlled by civilian staff and backed up by Police when needed

The troublemakers had to travel to get to Wembley and could have been stopped earlier.

Quoted from ancientmariner54

You cannot blame the police for a bunch of brain dead thugs turning up without tickets and forcing their way in .It's way to easy to blame someone else  . They are old enough but obviously not intelligent enough to know better .

Their job isn't it?

Quoted from DB

The troublemakers had to travel to get to Wembley and could have been stopped earlier.

Yeah, the police ‘super powers’ were clearly not working that day. Fancy not knowing what was going to happen 🤨

Quoted from supertown

Yeah, the police ‘super powers’ were clearly not working that day. Fancy not knowing what was going to happen 🤨

What’s happened to the much vaunted “police intelligence”, or failing that, common sense?

100k capacity with only 60k allowed in, stewarded by minimum wage teenagers in the main, for the biggest game in 55 years where tickets were going for thousands at face value? Doesn’t take a genius does it.

The met have seemingly endless resource to crack down on any civil liberties you could name but when it comes to the biggest sporting event on British soil since the 60s, they drop the ball again. I suppose we should be thankful that nobody got Menezes’d given Cressida male private was in charge.

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

I’d like the who ever red crossed this to explain their thoughts then , cmon show some balls and back it up because South Yorkshire police were fully to blame for the loss of 96 pour souls in my eyes

I don’t see the connection between Hillsborough and Wembley 35 years later . I get what you mean but don’t see what bringing Hillsborough into this debate achieves .

Seems to me the major fault if we are blame passing for this sort of event is the level and quality of stewarding and security. Money seems to be the prime consideration and if the sods know security will be lax then they will always take advantage.

Beef it up but then, like the airports, I suppose the cry will be about spectators having to queue for ages.

It is pretty clear there is a substantial number of people who see it as a badge of honour to get free admission to sporting and music events and no doubt travel free on the tube to get there. This has been true for years, I can remember the Millwall, West Ham, Man U, Liverpool, Leeds and Chelsea gangs doing the same thing in the 60s/70s.  But what do we do about such idiots when it takes 5 police to deal with one of these idiots with a “duty of care”……. being careful to not taser his b0ll0cks, kneel on his head or push a flare further up his @rse which would be the reaction of most of us. Water cannon? Next day headline about someone in a mobility scooter enjoying some alfresco refreshment being washed down the road.

I don’t know the answer but I do know the cause. Stupid tw@ts dosed up on drugs and drink.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

I don’t see the connection between Hillsborough and Wembley 35 years later . I get what you mean but don’t see what bringing Hillsborough into this debate achieves .

Police failure to control a crowd which resulted in the loss of 96 lives and on Sunday police failure to control a crowd which could of easily resulted in fatalities. Plus both the met and SYP who lied about events  and facts to cover up their mistakes and 35 yrs laters the met are doing their best to spin themselves out of it. The police are in place to protect the public they failed at Hillsboro and failed on Sunday that’s the link

Quoted from ska face

What’s happened to the much vaunted “police intelligence”, or failing that, common sense?

100k capacity with only 60k allowed in, stewarded by minimum wage teenagers in the main, for the biggest game in 55 years where tickets were going for thousands at face value? Doesn’t take a genius does it.

The met have seemingly endless resource to crack down on any civil liberties you could name but when it comes to the biggest sporting event on British soil since the 60s, they drop the ball again. I suppose we should be thankful that nobody got Menezes’d given Cressida male private was in charge.

Amazing wasn't it.
If you were a steward why would you even attempt to intervene?
The cowards who attacked the ticketless fan by surrounding him and kicking him in the head whilst laid on the floor were pathetic too.

It’s basically those organising these events penny pinching, don’t want to pay to have police on site so they employ loads of students etc on minimum wage, afraid the same thing was said about the Manchester Arena bombing, no police about but plenty of 18 year old students with high vis jacked on. It’s time proper rules are put into place where there are thousands in attendance. It’s noticeable that politicians, royals etc always have plenty of police around them but Joe public can do with a student.

Quoted from Stadium

Amazing wasn't it.
If you were a steward why would you even attempt to intervene?
The cowards who attacked the ticketless fan by surrounding him and kicking him in the head whilst laid on the floor were pathetic too.

And that sums up in one short sentence why this country is copulated.
I'll take the money but I'm buggered if I'm going to do the job and get my hands dirty.

Quoted from GYinScuntland

And that sums up in one short sentence why this country is copulated.
I'll take the money but I'm buggered if I'm going to do the job and get my hands dirty.

And that in two sentences shows that a lot of people have no idea.

They’re not paid to get involved in violence and they don’t have the powers, training or weapons of the police, and will most likely end up getting prosecuted for assault or wrongful arrest.

Read this post from someone else, which succinctly sums up my thoughts

Shocking, disgraceful and shameful. There's little more to add - it was, and will remain, a national disgrace. The blame game has started - blame the police, the FA, the stadium, UEFA, the stewards - but the truth lies closer to home. The "fans" who planned this caused mayhem. They booed the Italian anthem, booed our team, booed the Italian team during the penalties, beat up Italian supporters, attacked the players who missed their penalties, destroyed the experience and excitement for many genuine fans and all the rest of it. I'm proud of our team - they did their best, they sang our national anthem with gusto and with pride. Good to see - but as for some of our "fans", well, words fail me. What happened to decency, respect - and the rule of law?

It's an English problem, little more - and it needs to be addressed.

Quoted from Withnail

Read this post from someone else, which succinctly sums up my thoughts

Shocking, disgraceful and shameful. There's little more to add - it was, and will remain, a national disgrace. The blame game has started - blame the police, the FA, the stadium, UEFA, the stewards - but the truth lies closer to home. The "fans" who planned this caused mayhem. They booed the Italian anthem, booed our team, booed the Italian team during the penalties, beat up Italian supporters, attacked the players who missed their penalties, destroyed the experience and excitement for many genuine fans and all the rest of it. I'm proud of our team - they did their best, they sang our national anthem with gusto and with pride. Good to see - but as for some of our "fans", well, words fail me. What happened to decency, respect - and the rule of law?

It's an English problem, little more - and it needs to be addressed.

It really is an English disease.  Football is a medium for these non-humans to get their kicks out of creating mayhem.  It happens in town centres and pubs throughtout the country on a weekly basis.   Having lived in several countries, I find this bemusing.  Why can't we have fun without getting hammered and fighting?  Is it because we can't take our ale?  If these nobs want to fight, do what the Polish football hooligans do.  Meet in a field and fight opposition "fans" who also want a scrap.  

People still think football violence is an English problem? Wowsers…

Quoted from aldi_01

People still think football violence is an English problem? Wowsers…

Italy, Turkey, Holland, Egypt...

Quoted from toontown

Italy, Turkey, Holland, Egypt...

Exactly…it doesn’t justify it but had the game been in Rome it would’ve been equally as brutal…

Quoted from aldi_01

Exactly…it doesn’t justify it but had the game been in Rome it would’ve been equally as brutal…

In what sense? That the police in Rome would have dealt with it in their time honoured fashion and in a way that many people would like the police to deal with violent groups over here?  It is certainly unlikely these days that a bunch of English thugs would have been able to overwhelm turnstiles and gates to gain free admission.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

In what sense? That the police in Rome would have dealt with it in their time honoured fashion and in a way that many people would like the police to deal with violent groups over here?  It is certainly unlikely these days that a bunch of English thugs would have been able to overwhelm turnstiles and gates to gain free admission.

Wowsers….

Quoted from aldi_01

Wowsers….

Wowsers indeed😀

I’m not disagreeing with you aldi, just asking which aspects of the whole sorry mess would be the same and which ones different had it been in Rome.

If the game had been in rome there’s have been blood spilt for sure. Perhaps nobody trying to break in but it wouldnt have been plain sailing.

Lazio/Roma ultras with bikes chains and belts, Caribeneri clobbering anyone in the wrong place…

Quoted from aldi_01

If the game had been in rome there’s have been blood spilt for sure. Perhaps nobody trying to break in but it wouldnt have been plain sailing.

Lazio/Roma ultras with bikes chains and belts, Caribeneri clobbering anyone in the wrong place…

This.

It wouldn’t have been a police issue, it would have been fan on fan. Some English fans like a rumble every now and again, the Italian ultras are a different level.

Quoted from Posh Harry

This.

It wouldn’t have been a police issue, it would have been fan on fan. Some English fans like a rumble every now and again, the Italian ultras are a different level.

I was at a game where Hellas needed a win, they were playing Carpi…it’s like Leeds playing some non entity team like
Stevenage.

I went for a urine in the boozer, came back, the place is deserted…everyone man woman and child was outside throwing whatever they could at the carpi team bus, supporters coaches and anything else they felt like for 5 minutes…

Literally turned round went back in like intercourse all happened.

I’d the final had been in rome English lads would’ve been coming back with genuine wounds.

This was a case of the police being overly arrogant and platelet misjudging a predictable situation…

I'm going to take I was there attitude,(this is what I saw)  TBH The route causes are a large intake of alcohol plus the white stuff. No police at the 1st control, or on the concourse outside turnstiles. Thousands of Fans in a inebriated state going nowhere.
I already heard the about the shameful actions of  our supporters from weds in sections either side of the Danish section cowards the lot of them.

All that happened on Sunday was is it was on a much larger Scale all around the stadium. The footage you will of all probably have  seen at C10 is the wheelchair access at entrance C Myself and My Daughter  were at C  People in the Q in front and at the side Lineing up with people who had tickets.It was obvious a few didn't, as my daughter went through the turnstile a couple from the side tried the Good old 2 for 1 routine. I pushed him out of the way.
At this stage your on your own No steward, No police.
When actually  I got in others managed/attempted the same 2 for 1 and were stopped. some must of managed to get through also via the wheelchair access.

This was all over social media this method of gaining entry  on Thursday after the semi Final. As for being threatened for your ticket  pretty disgusting It's a new low for us. After the stories My daughter and wife encountered in the Danish section we are in for a string of gutter behavioural actions by a new low life scumbags portraying themselves as England supporters. They are a  disgrace

I'm going to take I was there attitude,(this is what I saw)  TBH The route causes are a large intake of alcohol plus the white stuff. No police at the 1st control, or on the concourse outside turnstiles. Thousands of Fans in a inebriated state going nowhere.
I already heard the about the shameful actions of  our supporters from weds in sections either side of the Danish section cowards the lot of them.

All that happened on Sunday was is it was on a much larger Scale all around the stadium. The footage you will of all probably have  seen at C10 is the wheelchair access at entrance C Myself and My Daughter  were at C  People in the Q in front and at the side Lineing up with people who had tickets.It was obvious a few didn't, as my daughter went through the turnstile a couple from the side tried the Good old 2 for 1 routine. I pushed him out of the way.
At this stage your on your own No steward, No police.
When actually  I got in others managed/attempted the same 2 for 1 and were stopped. some must of managed to get through also via the wheelchair access.

This was all over social media this method of gaining entry  on Thursday after the semi Final. As for being threatened for your ticket  pretty disgusting It's a new low for us. After the stories My daughter and wife encountered in the Danish section we are in for a string of gutter behavioural actions by a new low life scumbags portraying themselves as England supporters. They are a  disgrace