Man Utd v Liverpool

Quoted from Rick12

On the first point I still trust a fair degree of police within reason to do the right thing.

As for your second point I agree. Some police are better than others in how they deal with certain situations . I think to make a good police person you need someone with a good conscience and also having some street experience helps as well .

Maybe it’s because of my age Rick, probably being quite a lot older than you (I’m 5. Throughout my whole life, directly and indirectly, I’ve seen police behave in a biased and unreasonable way too often. I’m sure there are many good, decent people in the police force.

The problem is the culture. It might be changing for the better -if it is it’s too little and too late. I’m not talking about what some would call the ‘woke agenda’ either (although that is part of the picture). I speak as a middle aged white man from a working class background.

Until the police change they will never get the respect needed from all quarters. Without the respect there is no hope of policing protests peacefully.

I get it that when someone is in a stressful and dangerous situation they might lash out. If the lad got a whacking when he was being restrained in the heat of the action and he was lashing out, I get it. A spontaneous reaction. That’s not ideal but understandable. What is not acceptable are situations like the one in that clip where a gang of police hold a suspect down while one of them beats him, and then to cap it all, they try to hide it from the cameras. That is deliberate and not spontaneous. That group of coppers were acting knowingly in a concerted and illegal manner.

I would assume the police get training for dealing with the majority of situations, and I would guess part of that training is to be clam and under control of their emotions when in a stressful situation.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

The footage I've seen was certainly a copper with street experience, it appeared to be Freeman St! There were 2 coppers holding a guy down while a 3rd gave him a right pasting and then more coppers moved in to move the people filming away from the incident. They appeared to have moved the 'suspect' to a secluded spot where they thought the beating could be done away from observers, behind police vans and against a wall.

It wasn't policing, it was assault.

Your missing the point though on what I mean by street experience. Growing up in a deprived neighborhood where the opportunities to commit crime are greater.Knowing the local street vernacular , knowing whats it like to in a fair few cases have no father and being looked after by your grandparents. Where drugs are common place  etc.

Again though these police dont represent the ones I know. Top guys who have a strong moral code . Iam sure there are more others like them.Good people who are trying to do a tough job in a constant pressurized environment.  You get dodgy characters in all walks of life though not just the police.

Quoted from Rick12

Your missing the point though on what I mean by street experience. Growing up in a deprived neighborhood where the opportunities to commit crime are greater.Knowing the local street vernacular , knowing whats it like to in a fair few cases have no father and being looked after by your grandparents. Where drugs are common place  etc.

Again though these police dont represent the ones I know. Top guys who have a strong moral code . Iam sure there are more others like them.Good people who are trying to do a tough job in a constant pressurized environment.  You get dodgy characters in all walks of life though not just the police.

I disagree with that Rick. There are plenty of opportunities for crime open for wealthier people. It’s just that it’s not worth their while indulging in the petty crime poor people can get involved in. I’m thinking tax fraud, insider dealing, money laundering, expenses fiddling, fraudulent awarding of business, bribery.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I disagree with that Rick. There are plenty of opportunities for crime open for wealthier people. It’s just that it’s not worth their while indulging in the petty crime poor people can get involved in. I’m thinking tax fraud, insider dealing, money laundering, expenses fiddling, fraudulent awarding of business, bribery.

I agree wealthier people tend to commit a differing sort of crime but I still feel deprived areas are more likely to suffer from more acute types of problems which test someone's mettle emotionally and physically more. Think of more physical violence more likely to happen amongst your  peers and in your neighborhood. It's what the east end of London was characterized by which gave rise to notorious groups like the Krays .

Fact is, and as the ex copper at work will agree with, there’s a fair fee coppers which love a ruck and sometimes, situations like this provide that release for them with minimal risk.

The police, over time have gotten away with plenty, perhaps they were following order, perhaps they could’ve walked away but the simple fact is plenty of things have happened because of them.

Their job is difficult, society has and continues to change and the police have to respond to that and some do quicker than others. Like every police force, there have been serious cutbacks, couple that with folk who are careerists and will do anything to climb the greasy pole and it doesn’t help.

Everyone has a breaking point and whilst 99% of coppers can stay calm and so forth, some don’t and I’d imagine for the legitimate ones it’s frustrating, much like in my role. I have to stay calm and collected, the minute I don’t I’m gone. The minute I lose it it lets everyone down and compromises the integrity.

The debate about the police can rumble for ages and does often detract from the huge postive work they do, but as I say, the misdemeanours and rogue stuff undoes any good work.

To end on a positive though, anyone that saw the thing about GMP and organised crime...nothing better than seeing a big old unit drug dealer thinking he’s ten men being read the riot act and taken down by a middle aged woman from Rochdale in an Asda parka...

Quoted from aldi_01

Fact is, and as the ex copper at work will agree with, there’s a fair fee coppers which love a ruck and sometimes, situations like this provide that release for them with minimal risk.

The police, over time have gotten away with plenty, perhaps they were following order, perhaps they could’ve walked away but the simple fact is plenty of things have happened because of them.

Their job is difficult, society has and continues to change and the police have to respond to that and some do quicker than others. Like every police force, there have been serious cutbacks, couple that with folk who are careerists and will do anything to climb the greasy pole and it doesn’t help.

Everyone has a breaking point and whilst 99% of coppers can stay calm and so forth, some don’t and I’d imagine for the legitimate ones it’s frustrating, much like in my role. I have to stay calm and collected, the minute I don’t I’m gone. The minute I lose it it lets everyone down and compromises the integrity.

The debate about the police can rumble for ages and does often detract from the huge postive work they do, but as I say, the misdemeanours and rogue stuff undoes any good work.

To end on a positive though, anyone that saw the thing about GMP and organised crime...nothing better than seeing a big old unit drug dealer thinking he’s ten men being read the riot act and taken down by a middle aged woman from Rochdale in an Asda parka...

The problem today is the reporting which is very unbalanced in all walks of life, beit about you, me, anybody, the police or anything. There is probably less than 0.5% of good news stories reported and 100% of bad news stories reported.

Perhaps it is us public who likes to read/watch bad news. If we stopped watching would the reporting stop? Decades ago about 300 Millwall fans invaded their pitch after the match; unheard of at the time as usually 2 coppers were on duty in each corner of the pitch and that was it.

The following week it escalated and the week after it escalated even more. The reporting enticed others to follow suit until it became the norm. About 200 fans on the pitch at Old Trafford shouldn't have been a problem to the security they have nowadays, never mind the police.

Over reaction by all and the worst is the press. What some of the police did was despicable and they should be dismissed and sent to jail. The press will live to report another day maintaining their right to report, beit biased at most times.

Whatever the reason, it was an illegal gathering.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Maybe it’s because of my age Rick, probably being quite a lot older than you (I’m 5. Throughout my whole life, directly and indirectly, I’ve seen police behave in a biased and unreasonable way too often. I’m sure there are many good, decent people in the police force.

The problem is the culture. It might be changing for the better -if it is it’s too little and too late. I’m not talking about what some would call the ‘woke agenda’ either (although that is part of the picture). I speak as a middle aged white man from a working class background.

Until the police change they will never get the respect needed from all quarters. Without the respect there is no hope of policing protests peacefully.

I get it that when someone is in a stressful and dangerous situation they might lash out. If the lad got a whacking when he was being restrained in the heat of the action and he was lashing out, I get it. A spontaneous reaction. That’s not ideal but understandable. What is not acceptable are situations like the one in that clip where a gang of police hold a suspect down while one of them beats him, and then to cap it all, they try to hide it from the cameras. That is deliberate and not spontaneous. That group of coppers were acting knowingly in a concerted and illegal manner.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-56979521
In the 70s and 80s any football supporter was classed as a yob, a criminal. I witnessed several flash points that were instigated by the police
Hillsborough was caused by the police officer in charge, getting the yobs off the street and pen them in. Look how the press well The Sun reported it.
Still I think it was illegal gathering as Covid rules are in place.

Quoted from Rick12

I agree wealthier people tend to commit a differing sort of crime .

I think it’s probably more accurate to say wealthy people tend to get arrested for a differing sort of crime. I wonder how many bankers in the city of London are routinely stopped & searched for possession of Class A drugs, especially in comparison to the number of young people stopped a few hundred yards away in Hackney for cannabis possession.