The Big Reset

After nigh on 2 decades of decline, penny pinching, horrifically poor decision making on managers/players and relegations the club's current "custodians" are on the brink of being ousted.
Hopefully within the next few weeks we will have 3 forward thinking, intelligent men taking over the reigns, moving the club from the time warp it's currently trapped into the  21st century.
Got me thinking, with our current league status far from secure what are our (fans) realistic hopes for this great club in the near, medium and long term future?
Suppose the club is about to go through The Big Reset.
Mine would be:
1) Stay in the league
2) Build on fan involvement.
3) New ground within 5-7 years.

No reason why the new stadium can’t be delivered quicker than that. The land is available and the deal is agreed in principle. Can’t see why it can’t be ready by August 2024.

Let's just try and concentrate on staying in the league for now, the rest is for a later date.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

No reason why the new stadium can’t be delivered quicker than that. The land is available and the deal is agreed in principle. Can’t see why it can’t be ready by August 2024.

How about because they want to use government funding to build the stadium, and there isn't any? I doubt it would qualify even if Covid hadn't happened, but the pot is empty now and will be much harder to get anything.

Even Freeman street which costs less and already has land owner and council backing is unlikely in the next 5 years.

Quoted from pen penfras

How about because they want to use government funding to build the stadium, and there isn't any? I doubt it would qualify even if Covid hadn't happened, but the pot is empty now and will be much harder to get anything.

Even Freeman street which costs less and already has land owner and council backing is unlikely in the next 5 years.

But Boris said towns like Grimsby won’t be left behind.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

But Boris said towns like Grimsby won’t be left behind.

That doesn't mean we'll pay for a football stadium so that a bunch of wealthy people can make some money at the value of their business increasing. It's hardly like it's going to create lots of jobs, so spending £30 million of public money seems a bit of a waste.

Quoted from pen penfras

That doesn't mean we'll pay for a football stadium so that a bunch of wealthy people can make some money at the value of their business increasing. It's hardly like it's going to create lots of jobs, so spending £30 million of public money seems a bit of a waste.

(1) new jobs during construction - and it won’t be just the ground as the surrounding area will need infrastructure work
(2) that infrastructure will bring additional benefits for the area the ground is in (on a bigger scale consider what the Minnellium Tent did for the Greenwich Penninsular)  
(3) the ground won’t be built in isolation, and there most likely will be other leisure facilities (gallery in the ice factory?)
(4) taken together, they will be mutually supporting to drive extra footfall in the area. Small artisanal businesses could thrive in what they’re calling ‘the Kasbah’. Especially food and drink producers and eateries.
If done well it could bring extra tourism, so genuinely new money to the area. Think of a mini-version of Liverpool.
Apart from potential economic benefits, if it means an area of the town is rundown and we get better facilities for the football it won’t be a bad thing.

At this moment in time I would rather bring in a centre forward who can get 20 goals by season end, I’m afraid non of the new owners are capable of doing that, scoring the goals obviously, it’s all about the here and now not what might happen in the future.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

(1) new jobs during construction - and it won’t be just the ground as the surrounding area will need infrastructure work
(2) that infrastructure will bring additional benefits for the area the ground is in (on a bigger scale consider what the Minnellium Tent did for the Greenwich Penninsular)  
(3) the ground won’t be built in isolation, and there most likely will be other leisure facilities (gallery in the ice factory?)
(4) taken together, they will be mutually supporting to drive extra footfall in the area. Small artisanal businesses could thrive in what they’re calling ‘the Kasbah’. Especially food and drink producers and eateries.
If done well it could bring extra tourism, so genuinely new money to the area. Think of a mini-version of Liverpool.
Apart from potential economic benefits, if it means an area of the town is rundown and we get better facilities for the football it won’t be a bad thing.

                  Didn't know Liza had a tent  

Sorry, but new stadiums can be beset with problems and delays.

York City had funding approved in 2008 for a new 8,000 stadium.  Due to be ready 2012.

After many new unforeseen problems, as at Feb 21, they have still not played in it despite it being ready.  

Quoted from golfer

                  Didn't know Liza had a tent  

😆

Had a touch of the Victoria Woods there. Millennium! There I said it.

Quoted from golfer

                  Didn't know Liza had a tent  

Yep. It can fit one Gest and is decorated with Garlands

Quoted from KingstonMariner

(1) new jobs during construction - and it won’t be just the ground as the surrounding area will need infrastructure work
(2) that infrastructure will bring additional benefits for the area the ground is in (on a bigger scale consider what the Minnellium Tent did for the Greenwich Penninsular)  
(3) the ground won’t be built in isolation, and there most likely will be other leisure facilities (gallery in the ice factory?)
(4) taken together, they will be mutually supporting to drive extra footfall in the area. Small artisanal businesses could thrive in what they’re calling ‘the Kasbah’. Especially food and drink producers and eateries.
If done well it could bring extra tourism, so genuinely new money to the area. Think of a mini-version of Liverpool.
Apart from potential economic benefits, if it means an area of the town is rundown and we get better facilities for the football it won’t be a bad thing.

The redevelopment of Liverpool One cost £1 Billion. We aren't going to get anywhere near a substantial enough amount to do anything on that scale. The ground itself is probably more than the amount earmarked for a Town like ours in total right now.

We've got the same big problem that we've had since day 1 of a stadium being announced, whoever is running the show wants somebody else to pay for it.

Only focusing on staying in the league at the moment.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

But Boris said towns like Grimsby won’t be left behind.

Boris says a lot of things, but wearing a Town hat might mean he favours us.

Quoted from pen penfras

How about because they want to use government funding to build the stadium, and there isn't any? I doubt it would qualify even if Covid hadn't happened, but the pot is empty now and will be much harder to get anything.

Even Freeman street which costs less and already has land owner and council backing is unlikely in the next 5 years.

As sombody who doesn’t live in Grimsby (and never has) can I just point out what a terrible location the Freeman Street site is.

And whereas the Ice House redevelopment and the necessary infrastructure work (access etc...) would be publicly funded, I haven’t seen one reference to the proposed new stadium at Fish Dock 3 being called a “Community Stadium” or Shutes (or his consortium) saying anything about finance coming from the public purse.

The stadium will be financed via a mortgage. Simple. It will be built to maximise revenue 365 days a year. Anyone who’s been to Chesterfield new ground might have noticed the gym built under one of the stands (generating rent) and PNE’s final new stand has an NHS walk-in centre built into it. Again generating a significant rent.

Quoted from pen penfras

The redevelopment of Liverpool One cost £1 Billion. We aren't going to get anywhere near a substantial enough amount to do anything on that scale. The ground itself is probably more than the amount earmarked for a Town like ours in total right now.

We've got the same big problem that we've had since day 1 of a stadium being announced, whoever is running the show wants somebody else to pay for it.

this is correct.

Well we can't do worse than hiring Extreme Leisure can we

Quoted from pen penfras

The redevelopment of Liverpool One cost £1 Billion. We aren't going to get anywhere near a substantial enough amount to do anything on that scale. The ground itself is probably more than the amount earmarked for a Town like ours in total right now.

We've got the same big problem that we've had since day 1 of a stadium being announced, whoever is running the show wants somebody else to pay for it.

Liverpool One was a purely private development by Grosvenor Estates.

I was talking about the earlier redevelopment around the docks including the Tate. This kick started the rebirth of Liverpool as a destination and helped encourage things like Liverpool One.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

As sombody who doesn’t live in Grimsby (and never has) can I just point out what a terrible location the Freeman Street site is.

And whereas the Ice House redevelopment and the necessary infrastructure work (access etc...) would be publicly funded, I haven’t seen one reference to the proposed new stadium at Fish Dock 3 being called a “Community Stadium” or Shutes (or his consortium) saying anything about finance coming from the public purse.

The stadium will be financed via a mortgage. Simple. It will be built to maximise revenue 365 days a year. Anyone who’s been to Chesterfield new ground might have noticed the gym built under one of the stands (generating rent) and PNE’s final new stand has an NHS walk-in centre built into it. Again generating a significant rent.

A community stadium were the exact words Shutes said in his interview and said they would be pursuing that idea regardless of whether they bought the football club.https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/tom-shutes-reveals-stunning-plan-4110684

Bulding a stadium on the docks is going to cost around £40 million. No matter how optimistic you are about a 24/7 income stream, that's a lot of money to borrow and having to pay off. Can't see how any bank could justify that without a huge deposit.

Quoted from pen penfras

A community stadium were the exact words Shutes said in his interview and said they would be pursuing that idea regardless of whether they bought the football club.https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/tom-shutes-reveals-stunning-plan-4110684

Bulding a stadium on the docks is going to cost around £40 million. No matter how optimistic you are about a 24/7 income stream, that's a lot of money to borrow and having to pay off. Can't see how any bank could justify that without a huge deposit.

Thing is PP, Shutes is saying this is the best way to go and has had plans drawn up despite not even knowing whether he would be part owner of the club or not. His ideas for a stadium on the docks are much more exciting and make more sense than the plethora of underwhelming schemes coming out of BP Towers, none of which ever got off the ground.

I have far more faith that Shutes and his mates know what they doing than I ever did in the current lot. Extreme Leisure anyone?

I'm sure that Shutes and his mates will have done their research and must be fairly confident they can make this happen; otherwise, why bother even publishing their plans?

Of course, you can sit back and snipe, but this consortium are in a different league to your mate John.
.
If it doesn't happen, then yeah, you're entitled to have a pop.

Quoted from ginnywings

Thing is PP, Shutes is saying this is the best way to go and has had plans drawn up despite not even knowing whether he would be part owner of the club or not. His ideas for a stadium on the docks are much more exciting and make more sense than the plethora of underwhelming schemes coming out of BP Towers, none of which ever got off the ground.

I have far more faith that Shutes and his mates know what they doing than I ever did in the current lot. Extreme Leisure anyone?

I'm sure that Shutes and his mates will have done their research and must be fairly confident they can make this happen; otherwise, why bother even publishing their plans?

Of course, you can sit back and snipe, but this consortium are in a different league to your mate John.
.
If it doesn't happen, then yeah, you're entitled to have a pop.

I think this is the pertinent point. All are involved in the city and understand the complexities and routes to financing bigger projects...our board is made up of people who think "giving their time" and saving money is a much more valuable service to running a football.

I have no problems with a stadium on the docks but what about access, and where would you park.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5768644,-0.0691735,16.95z?hl=en-GB&authuser=0

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5768644,-0.0691735,513m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-GB&authuser=0

The railway is on one side and access from Victoria St/A180 roundabout will cause congestion on the roads.

Quoted from pen penfras

A community stadium were the exact words Shutes said in his interview and said they would be pursuing that idea regardless of whether they bought the football club.https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/tom-shutes-reveals-stunning-plan-4110684

Bulding a stadium on the docks is going to cost around £40 million. No matter how optimistic you are about a 24/7 income stream, that's a lot of money to borrow and having to pay off. Can't see how any bank could justify that without a huge deposit.

Question... when did the club finish paying off the mortgage on the Findus Stand? That didn’t cripple the club did it? And it generated no additional income streams for nearly 20 years until McMenemy’s was created and opened as a venue.

And paying off a mortgage... Mortgage repayments stay the same through out it’s term. But inflation happens and income from rents and income streams will increase.

I accept he used the term “community stadium” in that interview but they 100% have not spoken about requiring public funds to build it.

Once they've studied the accounts, they might find more urgent areas to finance than building a new stadium.

They may, however, find a way to get developers to build it and lease it back to the club. The club could then sublet some of the facilities within the complex to help out with the rent.

That would appear to be a much better option than starting life with a £40 million mortgage. (Although I don't believe a stadium could be built on the docks for that).

I’d much rather the club have a mortgage than a lease. For the same reasons that I’d rather have a mortgage on my house than rent it.

Don’t want to end up like Coventry.

Given Pettit’s involvement as founder/Partner at Revcap, you’d expect there to be a fairly sizeable chunk of private financing involved. The whole thing need to be a public/private partnership and will hopefully be able to tap into the Town Deal and some of Boris’ ethereal “levelling up” agenda.

Not sure if Revcap themselves will be involved, but are involved in some similar regeneration projects including the Lancaster Canal Quarter -

http://www.lancaster.gov.uk/sites/canal-quarter

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/lancaster-raring-to-get-on-with-250m-canal-quarter/

Quoted from DB

I have no problems with a stadium on the docks but what about access, and where would you park.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5768644,-0.0691735,16.95z?hl=en-GB&authuser=0

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5768644,-0.0691735,513m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-GB&authuser=0

The railway is on one side and access from Victoria St/A180 roundabout will cause congestion on the roads.

They haven’t even completed the takeover yet.

In terms of a “big reset” I’m sure it will be stage by stage so in some kind of order. .

YEAR 1

- Stay in the league
- Engage the support base in the area
- Confirm the new ground
- Give Hurst a budget to move up/get back in the league
- Get properly active in the community
- Plan to upgrade the training facilities
- Look for further investment

YEAR 2
- Get started on the new ground
- Build on the squad to make it truly competitive
- Sort the training ground
- Keep supporter engagement moving forward

If they can work at that pace then they’ll have no trouble filling a new ground when it opens.

The new stadium is number 1 priority. And it's fair to say Shutes & Co are already a lot further down the road with the project as potential owners than Fenty got to as owner/dictator for nearly 20 years.

New training facilities are number 2.

Get both of them sorted and it sort out a lot of our other problems. It will increase revenue, which will increase our budget and allow us to attract better players (better pay & better place of work).

Quoted from GollyGTFC

The new stadium is number 1 priority. And it's fair to say Shutes & Co are already a lot further down the road with the project as potential owners than Fenty got to as owner/dictator for nearly 20 years.

New training facilities are number 2.

Get both of them sorted and it sort out a lot of our other problems. It will increase revenue, which will increase our budget and allow us to attract better players (better pay & better place of work).

I do agree with you but surely doing stuff to attract new player talent has to be the number 1 priority? Stadium is right up there for sure but fair contracts and working facilities should be a priority immediate commitment from the new owners. The prospect of a new stadium that may open in say 2023/4 won't tempt players for next season I would assume.

I'd usually say we'd need to work hard to retain the players out of contract in the summer but in my mind looking at the squad that's clearly not a priority.

We can only progress from what the facilities are now. Both a new ground and stadium are important equally for different reasons and the same in attracting quality players in the future.

The training ground is easily the less cost and could be started while the final plans are prepared for the stadium. Both could be finished in a time scale of 2/3 years so we will have to wait until the consortium take over.

Mentioning the consortium has anybody seen any new tweets etc. from them ?

I would be surprised if the consortium don't have (even early stage) plans for a new training ground at an appropriate loaction somewhere down the A180 corridor.

Getting rental money in at the stadium was mentioned above.

The days of securing lucrative long-term rental contracts are gone, or severely diminished.  

We have to look at other income-streams.  I am sure that the consortium have the skills and contacts to achieve this.

I think that with these three , things will have been put in to action on all departments  starting with the playing staff . It does not take an idiot to know that the product on sale has to be good and  fit for pourpose to attract fans / customers , unlike the last idiot that only thought of saving and just getting through. we dont know how any thingis going to be financed , but you can prob bet that they wont need to get in to bed with the wrong type to get a few bob

I hate to say this, but I'll say it anyway and dodge the red crosses.

Maybe we need to look at the L*nc*ln Plan?

Quoted from malkamalka

I hate to say this, but I'll say it anyway and dodge the red crosses.

Maybe we need to look at the L*nc*ln Plan?

Only someone with the mentality of a school child would give a red cross to a suggestion that we learn from successful clubs.

So I expect plenty of red crosses coming your way malka

Absolutely nothing wrong at looking at other clubs, especially those that are similar in stature to us and taking the good bits and creating a plan from that.

Lincoln were a million miles away behind us the year we got promoted yet but the end of that season they were in front of and they’d only just got promoted that season...

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Getting rental money in at the stadium was mentioned above.

The days of securing lucrative long-term rental contracts are gone, or severely diminished.  

We have to look at other income-streams.  I am sure that the consortium have the skills and contacts to achieve this.

Totally disagree.

Preston North End. They were planning to build their fourth and final new stand. The basic stand would have cost £6m of which they could get grants from the football foundation for £1m. So they would have had to find the other £5m.

If PNE had borrowed £5m at 4% over 25 years they would be repaying just over £26k a month or £315,000 a year.

But they built an NHS health centre into the stand. It raised the overall cost of the stand to £10m, meaning they needed to finance £9m instead.

£9m at 4% over 25 years is just over £47k a month or £566k a year. But the NHS health centre generated an initial rent of £368,200 per year.

So by building the health centre their repayments went from having to fund £315,000 a year (for 25 years) to having to fund £200,000 in year 1 and then reducing as rent inflation increased their income from the stand.

Inflation since 2008 has averaged around 2.5%, so the rent might well be in the region of £495,000 if it has matched inflation. i.e. they are now having to find just £71,000 a year to meet their mortgage when income is substracted. They are not far away from the Stand self funding itself and when it's all paid up in 2033 they will be making a tidy amount of rent from a fully paid for stand.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Only someone with the mentality of a school child would give a red cross to a suggestion that we learn from successful clubs.

So I expect plenty of red crosses coming your way malka

Don't know how to tell you this but school children have brains that absorb information and enhance their knowledge. Unfortunately the others you mention totally lack anything between the top of their heads and soles of their feet.

They get their kicks out of red cross's which seems to enlarge their ego in the cavity left empty by the brain and fulfil their empty destiny in life.

Quoted from aldi_01

Absolutely nothing wrong at looking at other clubs, especially those that are similar in stature to us and taking the good bits and creating a plan from that.

Lincoln were a million miles away behind us the year we got promoted yet but the end of that season they were in front of and they’d only just got promoted that season...

Agree completely we should be looking at other clubs and where income generation and community programs are concerned other sports.

Kind of related but I think it’s barmy that the authorities don’t let lower league clubs have 5G pitches, no postponed games, can be used every day of the week by the community and other sports to generate income and surely has to be better for the passing game than a lot of the poor surfaces we see.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Agree completely we should be looking at other clubs and where income generation and community programs are concerned other sports.

Kind of related but I think it’s barmy that the authorities don’t let lower league clubs have 5G pitches, no postponed games, can be used every day of the week by the community and other sports to generate income and surely has to be better for the passing game than a lot of the poor surfaces we see.

If more money filtered down the pyramid we could have mandatory under soil heating at every EFL grounds. That's a better solution than 5G match pitches in my opinion.

Under soil heating is compulsory in the Championship isn't it?

Preston might have got an NHS health centre as a stakeholder.  Good for them.  This NHS business arrangement with a football club is not standard across the board.  It is also public money,  which with the new Government funding and Covid, should be in place long term.

I was referring to the far more common retail and hospitality commercial partnerships with football clubs.  With Covid very high rents over the longterm for retailers etc are no longer viable.

Golly,  my comments relate to mainstream issues, so we have to agree to disagree. We are both probably right, for different reasons.  😉

Quoted from GollyGTFC

If more money filtered down the pyramid we could have mandatory under soil heating at every EFL grounds. That's a better solution than 5G match pitches in my opinion.

Under soil heating is compulsory in the Championship isn't it?

Completely.....

I guess my point was more around that the pitch could be used by anyone which would be massive for the community and local engagement. Saracens (though cheating f****rs) do it really well on the morning of a game they get loads of kids teams down to play a mini tournament, once done the kids, coaches and parents stick around for the game.

Small clubs need everything they can get to drive revenue and grow their fan bases do both in the right way and you become more and more self sustainable long term.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

No reason why the new stadium can’t be delivered quicker than that. The land is available and the deal is agreed in principle. Can’t see why it can’t be ready by August 2024.

Oh really? Shutes has agreed a deal with ABP for the fish dock? I must have missed that announcement.

Of course, it's not actually 'land' that is available at the moment, is it? It's water.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

As sombody who doesn’t live in Grimsby (and never has) can I just point out what a terrible location the Freeman Street site is.

Why is Freemo a terrible location? It's only 300 metres away from the fish dock.

Quoted from DB

Don't know how to tell you this but school children have brains that absorb information and enhance their knowledge. Unfortunately the others you mention totally lack anything between the top of their heads and soles of their feet.

They get their kicks out of red cross's which seems to enlarge their ego in the cavity left empty by the brain and fulfil their empty destiny in life.

Fair point.