On-line petition for us!

The on line petition, which is now 170,000 strong, to get footie fans back in to games. Let us swell this boys and girls. Our clubs NEED US!!!!
UTM

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/552036

And what about those elderly or vulnerable town fans who will not be here next season as a result ?  

I honestly think safeguarding lives is a little more important than sport at the moment, these petitions get a bit of a frenzy around them, better to wait for the science to say it’s safe

Pointless

Quoted from codcheeky

I honestly think safeguarding lives is a little more important than sport at the moment, these petitions get a bit of a frenzy around them, better to wait for the science to say it’s safe

The German model seems to be working okay, monitoring the local transmission and as long is not out of control allowing 20% of the capacity of the stadium. As harsh as it may sound there has to be some balance in all arguments. For as much as I do not want our older, vulnerable supporters put at increased risk, I also do not think it's fair to carte blanche ban all fans. Surely there is a way of allowing the younger less at risk fans, controlled and socially distanced back in?..yes, our older vets will miss out, but it would improve the viewing for them on any stream having fans in there.

Quoted from codcheeky

I honestly think safeguarding lives is a little more important than sport at the moment, these petitions get a bit of a frenzy around them, better to wait for the science to say it’s safe

Read the petition and it says that safety processes should be in place

Quoted from Harry Haddock

And what about those elderly or vulnerable town fans who will not be here next season as a result ?  

You don't have to sign it. People don't have to go if they don't want to. I think that we just about still have freedom of choice, although that is debatable!

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

The German model seems to be working okay, monitoring the local transmission and as long is not out of control allowing 20% of the capacity of the stadium. As harsh as it may sound there has to be some balance in all arguments. For as much as I do not want our older, vulnerable supporters put at increased risk, I also do not think it's fair to carte blanche ban all fans. Surely there is a way of allowing the younger less at risk fans, controlled and socially distanced back in?..yes, our older vets will miss out, but it would improve the viewing for them on any stream having fans in there.

I know there has to be balance, the Germans at least seem to have a strategy and a working test and trace system, unfortunately in the U.K. it is an absolute mess. If these young go in should they be barred from shops and pubs we’re older people are ?

Quoted from Harry Haddock

And what about those elderly or vulnerable town fans who will not be here next season as a result ?  

If you’re elderly and vulnerable then perhaps it’s not wise to be going along. If you’re healthy and willing, then you absolutely should be allowed.

In December they’re allowing people into the 02 arena but apparently can’t allow fans in an open air stadium? It’s absolute nonsense that will kill off football clubs.

The lack of support for it on this thread is confusing.

Quoted from pontoonlew

If you’re elderly and vulnerable then perhaps it’s not wise to be going along. If you’re healthy and willing, then you absolutely should be allowed.

In December they’re allowing people into the 02 arena but apparently can’t allow fans in an open air stadium? It’s absolute nonsense that will kill off football clubs.

The lack of support for it on this thread is confusing.

The impetuosity of youth. I'm guessing you're a young man, to whom football is a big part of your life. I love football, but my life is more important.

Quoted from ginnywings

The impetuosity of youth. I'm guessing you're a young man, to whom football is a big part of your life. I love football, but my life is more important.

And with the greatest respect you don’t have to go, you can go back whenever you feel it’s safe to do so.

Unless you’re above the age of 70 the chances of you dying from this are absolutely minuscule, even above that the chances are pretty low.

Quoted from pontoonlew

And with the greatest respect you don’t have to go, you can go back whenever you feel it’s safe to do so.

Unless you’re above the age of 70 the chances of you dying from this are absolutely minuscule, even above that the chances are pretty low.

I agree with you but it makes you wonder what the people who are against returning ARE doing with their time? Are they not going anywhere, are they not going to work, shopping, eating out, to the pub, watching grandchildren or children playing sports all of which carries an equal chance of catching the virus than socially distanced at a football match with a much reduced capacity?

It is obviously up to each individual to make their own minds up, but the virus is not even causing as many deaths as a bad 'flu year, and the chances of dying are extremely remote if you were unlucky enough to catch it in the first place.    

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I agree with you but it makes you wonder what the people who are against returning ARE doing with their time? Are they not going anywhere, are they not going to work, shopping, eating out, to the pub, watching grandchildren or children playing sports all of which carries an equal chance of catching the virus than socially distanced at a football match with a much reduced capacity?

It is obviously up to each individual to make their own minds up, but the virus is not even causing as many deaths as a bad 'flu year, and the chances of dying are extremely remote if you were unlucky enough to catch it in the first place.    

https://fullfact.org/health/flu-covid-deaths/

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/health/flu-covid-19-deaths-comparison-trnd/index.html

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5933a1.htm

Quoted from Stadium

https://fullfact.org/health/flu-covid-deaths/

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/health/flu-covid-19-deaths-comparison-trnd/index.html

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5933a1.htm

Off topic but it makes me laugh how the fact check can say we can’t possibly say more people have been dying from flu as it could’ve been from another underlying issue.

Which is EXACTLY what we’ve been doing with Covid-19

Signed!! Time to stop pissing about now and let fans back in a controlled way. Obviously the vulnerable would have to think twice, but if we don’t get back short term we might not have a club to go back to long term.

Quoted from Stadium

https://fullfact.org/health/flu-covid-deaths/

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/health/flu-covid-19-deaths-comparison-trnd/index.html

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5933a1.htm

A report, mainly from that wonderful World Health Organisation, owned by that lovely computer programmer software man, turned expert medical scientific doctor, who very soon will demand to shoot god-knows-what into the worlds unsuspecting veins!

Quoted from wuffing

A report, mainly from that wonderful World Health Organisation, owned by that lovely computer programmer software man, turned expert medical scientific doctor, who very soon will demand to shoot god-knows-what into the worlds unsuspecting veins!

Next Wuffing discusses the danger of 5g phone masts.

Quoted from ginnywings

The impetuosity of youth. I'm guessing you're a young man, to whom football is a big part of your life. I love football, but my life is more important.

The obvious response is then don’t go.

(I might be impetuous, but I’m no youth 😁)

Quoted from wuffing

A report, mainly from that wonderful World Health Organisation, owned by that lovely computer programmer software man, turned expert medical scientific doctor, who very soon will demand to shoot god-knows-what into the worlds unsuspecting veins!

Do you want some more tinfoil? I’ve got a cupboard full. Be great for your hats.

Half the problem is when you hear about other events being put on indoors, pubs, restaurants, cinemas, can nicety halls . The sheer bloody inconsistency of the rules.

I am very much pro-social distancing and I believe that the apathy towards virus measures are going to prove very dangerous heading into winter.  However, signficantly reduced capacity crowds at lower-league grounds are becoming a necessity if we want our lifelong hobby to exist in 5 years' time.  

There is an expectation that a vaccine will arrive next year to save us, but that's not a given.  It could be years until an effective one is readily available.  By that point the virus will be endemic just like flu and cold viruses are (not a comparison).  We have to live with it at some point.  Ultimately the solution will have to be integrated with Track & Trace and that doesn't seem fit for purpose yet; once it is, 20% crowds could be effectively managed and the EFL can respond to local lockdown events.

Understandable that some have much higher priorities and it might mean that the vulnerable miss out on seeing their team, but if it also means that those same people have their hobby to go back to after this, then it's better than nothing.

Nothing will be happening with crowds any time soon.

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1313933549486178306?s=20

There’s no way any of these concerts will take place . All indoor events will be cancelled with winter on its way and the infection rate has grown X3 in a week . I fear in a months time we’ll be back to the situation we had in March/April .

Quoted from Stadium

https://fullfact.org/health/flu-covid-deaths/

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/health/flu-covid-19-deaths-comparison-trnd/index.html

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5933a1.htm

All well and good and people more savvy than I could post alternative facts and figures. I certainly read recently that in a bad flu year it has killed 50,000 people in the UK; of course as with any virus the most medically vulnerable would have suffered the most.

The question is what are we going to do about living with the virus? My point was that the vast majority of people are living their lives, which include things much more "dangerous" than going to a socially distanced football match in the open air.

I suppose the conversation is  somewhat irrelevent as the government is set on a course of locking down anything that moves.    

What gets me in all this, is that we cannot have groups of more than six, unless you go out grouse shooting, then it doesn't count because they are the upper class and out doors.  You can go the the Albert Hall and watch Handle's Messiah, 57% of capacity, that's alright to sit inside and watch posh music. Dido Harding who is in charge of all this shite is chairperson of the jockey club, so crowds will be allowed back in large numbers to horse racing because she said so. But when it comes to football, that is the sport of the plebs, who cannot be trusted, so we won't be allowed to sit outside and watch poor man's sport.

Who voted for these clowns?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

All well and good and people more savvy than I could post alternative facts and figures. I certainly read recently that in a bad flu year it has killed 50,000 people in the UK; of course as with any virus the most medically vulnerable would have suffered the most.

The question is what are we going to do about living with the virus? My point was that the vast majority of people are living their lives, which include things much more "dangerous" than going to a socially distanced football match in the open air.

I suppose the conversation is  somewhat irrelevent as the government is set on a course of locking down anything that moves.    

I'm all for society getting more back to normal and protecting the vulnerable rather than restricting everybody's way of life, but comparing Covid to an incredibly bad flu year at 50k deaths is hugely flawed. It's very rare that flu deaths get that high, and we don't have to lock down the whole country to maintain it. If we hadn't locked down, it would easily be in the hundreds of thousands by now. We also have 3 cold months left to go this year and a second wave well on the way.

The flu situation would probably be worse if we didn't have a vaccine, but we do. We certainly don't lock down the entire country every year because people get the flu. The excess deaths paints a grim picture and looks like it may well get quite a bit worse if older people have been hit hard in the second wave.

A lot of of deaths in old people occurred in care homes. The government dictated that any old person should be released back to care homes without being tested to free up beds to cope with the influx of covid patients.  The result of this madness was that some of these patients contracted the virus in hospital and it then spread in the care homes killing many vulnerable old people.If you take this number out of the figures, then the number of deaths has been estimated at half the total number of deaths.

Finally we're starting to look at the health implications of being locked down.

I heard a bloke on the radio this morning saying that lockdown doesn't actually do anything to reduce the number of deaths from Covid-19.

He also said that younger people are suffering from mental health issues as many of them are single and live in half the space that older people have in their bigger homes, so the impact on their longterm wellbeing is difficult to measure. But you have to consider the effects isolation has on your confidence and ability to practice your skills to attain the well paid jobs in life.

I think we all know there is no easy solution here. We can all see the inconsistencies. Figures are constantly skewed and interpreted in different ways so none of us can really agree on what's actually happening, and what's best for the country as a whole.

I wish I had the answer but at least the debate is moving beyond just the simplistic analysis of how many people are dying of Covid-19.

Quoted from RichMariner

Finally we're starting to look at the health implications of being locked down.

I heard a bloke on the radio this morning saying that lockdown doesn't actually do anything to reduce the number of deaths from Covid-19.

He also said that younger people are suffering from mental health issues as many of them are single and live in half the space that older people have in their bigger homes, so the impact on their longterm wellbeing is difficult to measure. But you have to consider the effects isolation has on your confidence and ability to practice your skills to attain the well paid jobs in life.

I think we all know there is no easy solution here. We can all see the inconsistencies. Figures are constantly skewed and interpreted in different ways so none of us can really agree on what's actually happening, and what's best for the country as a whole.

I wish I had the answer but at least the debate is moving beyond just the simplistic analysis of how many people are dying of Covid-19.

Most governments have gone down the lock down route; any government in this country of whatever persuation would have done the same, but as soon as they "flattened the curve and protected the NHS" they should have allowed life back to normal, for those that wished to do so. You cannot keep water in a colinder and you cannot stop a virus from spreading unless you impose a total and complete lockdown which is economic suicide.

I see in the news today there seems to be concern that the NHS will have to deal with more patients. I thought that is what they were there for but it seems not.

Like you say none of us know the full picture, but I agree the longer term damage caused to individuals and the economy could be catastrophic.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

The German model seems to be working okay, monitoring the local transmission and as long is not out of control allowing 20% of the capacity of the stadium. As harsh as it may sound there has to be some balance in all arguments. For as much as I do not want our older, vulnerable supporters put at increased risk, I also do not think it's fair to carte blanche ban all fans. Surely there is a way of allowing the younger less at risk fans, controlled and socially distanced back in?..yes, our older vets will miss out, but it would improve the viewing for them on any stream having fans in there.

Case and Point:

This week, there was a medical emergency in our street. Throughout the THREE hours waiting for an ambulance to arrive, 9 people from 5 different households were involved in assisting our injured neighbour.

Although 999 were in contact, at no point did they enquire about Covid vulneribility of those assisting.

Ages ranged from 14 to 70.

We were instructed (after 2 hours waiting outside) to take the injured party into their house. Again, no questions about Covid.

My point being:

If there had been a Town game that night, and those 9 people turned up, what checks have been made regarding Covid? This notion that younger people are not vulnerable to Covid is fake news. Look at the schools and colleges in our area where students have tested positive?

It's not a risk worth taking!

Quoted from malkamalka

Case and Point:

This week, there was a medical emergency in our street. Throughout the THREE hours waiting for an ambulance to arrive, 9 people from 5 different households were involved in assisting our injured neighbour.

Although 999 were in contact, at no point did they enquire about Covid vulneribility of those assisting.

Ages ranged from 14 to 70.

We were instructed (after 2 hours waiting outside) to take the injured party into their house. Again, no questions about Covid.

My point being:

If there had been a Town game that night, and those 9 people turned up, what checks have been made regarding Covid? This notion that younger people are not vulnerable to Covid is fake news. Look at the schools and colleges in our area where students have tested positive?

It's not a risk worth taking!

Your point then is that nobody should be allowed anywhere, at any time, because someone  close by may have covid? Taking that to its logical conclusion, you should not go shopping, to the park, any social gathering or let anybody through your front door unless they have had a negative covid test that day.

Forgive me, but that is just not sustainable is it? Who wants to live like that? Unless you are really quite old or have underlying conditions the chance of dying from covid are very small. I would have thought a socially distanced outdoor event (football) is about the least likely way of catching the virus, short of hiding behind the settee.

Quoted from malkamalka

Case and Point:

This week, there was a medical emergency in our street. Throughout the THREE hours waiting for an ambulance to arrive, 9 people from 5 different households were involved in assisting our injured neighbour.

Although 999 were in contact, at no point did they enquire about Covid vulneribility of those assisting.

Ages ranged from 14 to 70.

We were instructed (after 2 hours waiting outside) to take the injured party into their house. Again, no questions about Covid.

My point being:

If there had been a Town game that night, and those 9 people turned up, what checks have been made regarding Covid? This notion that younger people are not vulnerable to Covid is fake news. Look at the schools and colleges in our area where students have tested positive?

It's not a risk worth taking!

Sorry Donald!..but it's a medical fact the young are generally not vulnerable to Covid-19, at no point did I say they cannot contract the virus but the vast, vast majority of under 49s with no comobordities are not vulnerable to becoming ill.
And as you say, 9 people from different households, all of whom may not have the virus and if you had it, would not go and help someone in need?.
All I've pointed out in my post is that there has to be a way to safely get crowds back in, protect the vulnerable and control the way the crowd enter, exit and behave within the ground.
Football in lower league's is not sustainable without crowds and Football isn't football without crowds. Life cannot be lived without risk, it's all part of the great circle and if you'd prefer to exist trying not to die rather than die trying to live that's your call. Personally, I'd prefer the latter and doing all I can to protect myself and my loved ones.

Quoted from mimma

What gets me in all this, is that we cannot have groups of more than six, unless you go out grouse shooting, then it doesn't count because they are the upper class and out doors.  You can go the the Albert Hall and watch Handle's Messiah, 57% of capacity, that's alright to sit inside and watch posh music. Dido Harding who is in charge of all this shite is chairperson of the jockey club, so crowds will be allowed back in large numbers to horse racing because she said so. But when it comes to football, that is the sport of the plebs, who cannot be trusted, so we won't be allowed to sit outside and watch poor man's sport.

Who voted for these clowns?

About 40% of the people who voted in Grimsby

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

All well and good and people more savvy than I could post alternative facts and figures. I certainly read recently that in a bad flu year it has killed 50,000 people in the UK; of course as with any virus the most medically vulnerable would have suffered the most.

The question is what are we going to do about living with the virus? My point was that the vast majority of people are living their lives, which include things much more "dangerous" than going to a socially distanced football match in the open air.

I suppose the conversation is  somewhat irrelevent as the government is set on a course of locking down anything that moves.    

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjzANGNXkAECFbS?format=jpg&name=small