On-line petition for us!

I am very much pro-social distancing and I believe that the apathy towards virus measures are going to prove very dangerous heading into winter.  However, signficantly reduced capacity crowds at lower-league grounds are becoming a necessity if we want our lifelong hobby to exist in 5 years' time.  

There is an expectation that a vaccine will arrive next year to save us, but that's not a given.  It could be years until an effective one is readily available.  By that point the virus will be endemic just like flu and cold viruses are (not a comparison).  We have to live with it at some point.  Ultimately the solution will have to be integrated with Track & Trace and that doesn't seem fit for purpose yet; once it is, 20% crowds could be effectively managed and the EFL can respond to local lockdown events.

Understandable that some have much higher priorities and it might mean that the vulnerable miss out on seeing their team, but if it also means that those same people have their hobby to go back to after this, then it's better than nothing.

Nothing will be happening with crowds any time soon.

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1313933549486178306?s=20

There’s no way any of these concerts will take place . All indoor events will be cancelled with winter on its way and the infection rate has grown X3 in a week . I fear in a months time we’ll be back to the situation we had in March/April .

Quoted from Stadium

https://fullfact.org/health/flu-covid-deaths/

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/health/flu-covid-19-deaths-comparison-trnd/index.html

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5933a1.htm

All well and good and people more savvy than I could post alternative facts and figures. I certainly read recently that in a bad flu year it has killed 50,000 people in the UK; of course as with any virus the most medically vulnerable would have suffered the most.

The question is what are we going to do about living with the virus? My point was that the vast majority of people are living their lives, which include things much more "dangerous" than going to a socially distanced football match in the open air.

I suppose the conversation is  somewhat irrelevent as the government is set on a course of locking down anything that moves.    

What gets me in all this, is that we cannot have groups of more than six, unless you go out grouse shooting, then it doesn't count because they are the upper class and out doors.  You can go the the Albert Hall and watch Handle's Messiah, 57% of capacity, that's alright to sit inside and watch posh music. Dido Harding who is in charge of all this shite is chairperson of the jockey club, so crowds will be allowed back in large numbers to horse racing because she said so. But when it comes to football, that is the sport of the plebs, who cannot be trusted, so we won't be allowed to sit outside and watch poor man's sport.

Who voted for these clowns?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

All well and good and people more savvy than I could post alternative facts and figures. I certainly read recently that in a bad flu year it has killed 50,000 people in the UK; of course as with any virus the most medically vulnerable would have suffered the most.

The question is what are we going to do about living with the virus? My point was that the vast majority of people are living their lives, which include things much more "dangerous" than going to a socially distanced football match in the open air.

I suppose the conversation is  somewhat irrelevent as the government is set on a course of locking down anything that moves.    

I'm all for society getting more back to normal and protecting the vulnerable rather than restricting everybody's way of life, but comparing Covid to an incredibly bad flu year at 50k deaths is hugely flawed. It's very rare that flu deaths get that high, and we don't have to lock down the whole country to maintain it. If we hadn't locked down, it would easily be in the hundreds of thousands by now. We also have 3 cold months left to go this year and a second wave well on the way.

The flu situation would probably be worse if we didn't have a vaccine, but we do. We certainly don't lock down the entire country every year because people get the flu. The excess deaths paints a grim picture and looks like it may well get quite a bit worse if older people have been hit hard in the second wave.

A lot of of deaths in old people occurred in care homes. The government dictated that any old person should be released back to care homes without being tested to free up beds to cope with the influx of covid patients.  The result of this madness was that some of these patients contracted the virus in hospital and it then spread in the care homes killing many vulnerable old people.If you take this number out of the figures, then the number of deaths has been estimated at half the total number of deaths.

Finally we're starting to look at the health implications of being locked down.

I heard a bloke on the radio this morning saying that lockdown doesn't actually do anything to reduce the number of deaths from Covid-19.

He also said that younger people are suffering from mental health issues as many of them are single and live in half the space that older people have in their bigger homes, so the impact on their longterm wellbeing is difficult to measure. But you have to consider the effects isolation has on your confidence and ability to practice your skills to attain the well paid jobs in life.

I think we all know there is no easy solution here. We can all see the inconsistencies. Figures are constantly skewed and interpreted in different ways so none of us can really agree on what's actually happening, and what's best for the country as a whole.

I wish I had the answer but at least the debate is moving beyond just the simplistic analysis of how many people are dying of Covid-19.

Quoted from RichMariner

Finally we're starting to look at the health implications of being locked down.

I heard a bloke on the radio this morning saying that lockdown doesn't actually do anything to reduce the number of deaths from Covid-19.

He also said that younger people are suffering from mental health issues as many of them are single and live in half the space that older people have in their bigger homes, so the impact on their longterm wellbeing is difficult to measure. But you have to consider the effects isolation has on your confidence and ability to practice your skills to attain the well paid jobs in life.

I think we all know there is no easy solution here. We can all see the inconsistencies. Figures are constantly skewed and interpreted in different ways so none of us can really agree on what's actually happening, and what's best for the country as a whole.

I wish I had the answer but at least the debate is moving beyond just the simplistic analysis of how many people are dying of Covid-19.

Most governments have gone down the lock down route; any government in this country of whatever persuation would have done the same, but as soon as they "flattened the curve and protected the NHS" they should have allowed life back to normal, for those that wished to do so. You cannot keep water in a colinder and you cannot stop a virus from spreading unless you impose a total and complete lockdown which is economic suicide.

I see in the news today there seems to be concern that the NHS will have to deal with more patients. I thought that is what they were there for but it seems not.

Like you say none of us know the full picture, but I agree the longer term damage caused to individuals and the economy could be catastrophic.