Jason’s latest Guardian article

Quoted from WesternMariner

Two things after reading that. Firstly and a bit flippantly - he spent lockdown creating an animation with his kids about how the mind works? I know a fella through work whose kids go to chess camp…. Things have moved on since I was a lad hanging around on street corners and drinking cider.

More seriously though there’s clearly something in the data led approach and if the January signings were driven by that then bring on some more. I just have a nagging worry that there ought to be some art in the equation and not just science. I’ve got two heroes as far as football management is concerned, obviously Sir Alan and then Brian Clough neither of whom I suspect were data driven. Both created teams of not necessarily the best players but which were more than the sum of their parts and were made so by man management. The best data in the world isn’t enough without the magic ingredient of inspiration however it is delivered. I want a team of heroes and magicians and I’m yet to be convinced they can be identified on a laptop.

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Alan Buckley may not have had data but he did have.a set way that he wanted to play and he signed players that fitted into that style.  He never compromised on that often much to the irritation of some supporters who’d complain about the fancy pass and move and shout to lump it into the box.  

In contrast, could anyone describe PH’s way of playing?  He made some great signings and brought success but I couldn’t tell you what was the PH way.

Every club uses data.  It would be weird not to in this day and age.

Quoted from WesternMariner

Two things after reading that. Firstly and a bit flippantly - he spent lockdown creating an animation with his kids about how the mind works? I know a fella through work whose kids go to chess camp…. Things have moved on since I was a lad hanging around on street corners and drinking cider.

More seriously though there’s clearly something in the data led approach and if the January signings were driven by that then bring on some more. I just have a nagging worry that there ought to be some art in the equation and not just science. I’ve got two heroes as far as football management is concerned, obviously Sir Alan and then Brian Clough neither of whom I suspect were data driven. Both created teams of not necessarily the best players but which were more than the sum of their parts and were made so by man management. The best data in the world isn’t enough without the magic ingredient of inspiration however it is delivered. I want a team of heroes and magicians and I’m yet to be convinced they can be identified on a laptop.

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Alan Buckley may not have had data but he did have.a set way that he wanted to play and he signed players that fitted into that style.  He never compromised on that often much to the irritation of some supporters who’d complain about the fancy pass and move and shout to lump it into the box.  

In contrast, could anyone describe PH’s way of playing?  He made some great signings and brought success but I couldn’t tell you what was the PH way.

Every club uses data.  It would be weird not to in this day and age.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

Also Buckley worked astonishingly hard at identifying who he brought in. Too hard perhaps. I’d imagine he’d be a supporter of the more modern way of doing things as he was an absolute student of the game.

Quoted from Maringer

I remember Artell mentioning in one of his interviews the other month that Buckley had popped in when walking the dog and joined in with the coaching staff who were discussing plans for a game!

Quoted from Chrisblor

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

Also Buckley worked astonishingly hard at identifying who he brought in. Too hard perhaps. I’d imagine he’d be a supporter of the more modern way of doing things as he was an absolute student of the game.

Quoted from jimgtfc

The one thing that can completely nullify the data approach is still our location, and if an identified player wants to come here. Let’s say we want a central midfielder, under the age of 26, who averages over 80 passes per game, with a pass completion rate of over 85%, with over 50% of those passes being forward. We might be able to identify 5 players who fit those criteria, but they might not be available, or if they are, they will also be wanted by other, possibly more attractive clubs who are looking down the data route, they might be based in the south and might not want to come to Grimsby, and so we’re left looking down the list, and end up recruiting players that don’t quite fit the criteria and we force a style of football on them that doesn’t suit them.

I’m a huge fan of JS and AP, but he’s very much nailing his colours to the mast here, we have to get this transfer window right, otherwise these methods will be questioned.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

I bet stockwoods kids were the happiest kids in the country when lockdown ended !! Creating an animation of how the mind works?!!

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

I bet stockwoods kids were the happiest kids in the country when lockdown ended !! Creating an animation of how the mind works?!!

Quoted from Poojah

Fair play to him, I say. By the time lockdown ended my two kids were eating their own faeces and howling at the moon. Can’t say I was doing much better myself.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Regarding Jason, he says it’s a 2 hour 34 minute drive home along the A180 and M62, not that I want his exact address and I’m not going to stalk him but that suggests he lives over Manchester area, I always assumed he lived “ darn sarf”.

Quoted from MarinerMal

That's not really related to whether a data-driven approach is used. Even with the traditional 'eye for a good player' method, we'd face the same challenges concerning location.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

I bet stockwoods kids were the happiest kids in the country when lockdown ended !! Creating an animation of how the mind works?!!

Quoted from RichMariner

I work with data in my role at work so I absolutely know the advantages it can bring.

Football has a million variables, though. It’s not an exact science, so you can’t apply science exactly in return.

I’m not against us using it, as Jason says, to inform our decisions. Data may isolate a player who makes 100+ passes per game, but is he playing in a role or team that facilitates that? How can you guarantee that he’ll make 100+ passes for us in a midfield that struggles or doesn’t play a system in which he’s actively passed to?

Today’s CA diary alluded to these variables. I guess it’s easy to be cynical or perhaps just cautious about data, and that’s no bad thing. I wouldn’t say I’m against it.

But signing a player based 100% on data, only for him to be troublesome, or unable to communicate or understand Artell’s instruction, is possible.

I think we just need to get the balance right. Data may highlight undervalued players and then it’s about our ‘eye’ foe that player, and whether he’s a good fit in terms of squad ethos, work rate, etc.

Use data, but don’t depend on it. Like I say, football isn’t an exact science, so don’t depend or rely on an exact science (data) entirely for success.

Quoted from exiledmeggie

At the end of the day, the only data we need is the league table and that doesn’t lie!

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Alan Buckley may not have had data but he did have.a set way that he wanted to play and he signed players that fitted into that style.  He never compromised on that often much to the irritation of some supporters who’d complain about the fancy pass and move and shout to lump it into the box.  

In contrast, could anyone describe PH’s way of playing?  He made some great signings and brought success but I couldn’t tell you what was the PH way.

Every club uses data.  It would be weird not to in this day and age.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

The whole thing is a nonsense and as the Cod Almighty article says the permutations of data is endless, as are the ways of interpreting it as are the things that aren't covered by data.

However, as a tool to create a list of possible targets it is as good as any other method, but really it is just the modern equivalent of making a list of players that might be suitable, but as many teams find out every season it does not necessarily increase your chances of success.


There is an old saying BBB (Bulldroppings Baffle Brains) and the article is in part that, and in part a smoke and mirrors for people not to see and ask what is going on.

Joe Hutchinson joins GTFC  in November 2022 from Lincoln City as Head of Recruitment Analysis, one assumes ready for the 2023 24 season. We now find that PH went his own way and didn't implement much/any of JH's ideas.
That season kicks off and it soon becomes apparent all is not well, as the team is playing poorly "like strangers" someone posted on TheFishy. And yet as the tone and volume of alarm spread throughout TheFishy and beyond, soothing voices from GTFC said that all is well as the Data shows we are playing well and all is alright until we started to worry that we and the management were watching different games altogether. The inevitable happened at Doncaster, and showed how poor the board is in man management. It wasn't until Monday that it was clear who was in charge and in the vacuum of the weekend, damage was done to the team's morale. The focus should have been on the people who are staying as they have to battle on regardless. The sacking should have  been done at Grimsby, one lot sacking, one lot pacifying the rest as things must go on. Amateurish.  JS writes a Guardian piece wringing his hands and trying to vindicate the shambles by lecturing everyone about Sacking = Unemployment.
We then go through a longish period of looking for the "right man" and we recruit a one-team, 18 months unemployed manager who is filling his time studying Forensic-Biology and who we entrust to stop a Slo-Mo Relegation battle. Yes, some of the January window recruits are better than we have already, but we spectacularly crash land with some historic thrashings. A "meeting" to "clear the air" ensues and changes are put into place, and we all sigh in relief. Yes sure, we are all grateful, except, DA put in that position in the first place.

Now JS writes a piece in the Guardian and intimates that PH hadn't gone along with the Data Recruitment, so Data Recruitment cannot be blamed and anyway Data saved the day by keeping Town up!
Didn't JS discuss the employment of a Data Recruitment Analyst with PH, and did PH go with it or against it. If PH was against the way that GTFC was travelling, why was he in employment at the start of 2023-24 ?  If he, JS, is now blaming PH for recruiting different players, to what was recommended, why did he sign them off?
The Guardian piece just muddies the waters so you can't see the mistakes that have been made. As I say BBB

Quoted from GrimPol

Quoted from rancido

The Flat Earth Society is alive and active.

Quoted from GrimPol

Is that the best you can do?
I always know when I'm winning the argument when you attack the messenger not the message.

Quoted from rancido

It was merely a jest and you are certainly not winning the argument. The football world has moved on and developed in so many ways in the last 30 years - data collection on players is one such area. No one thinks it is the " be all and end all" in identifying suitable players but it is a very useful tool. It saves a lot of leg work by scouts and fruitless watching players because some one thinks they are ok.

Quoted from GrimPol

Your two posts are different subjects. I have a healthy scepticism of Data Led selection, I am not fully convinced.
My point though was that JS is blaming PH for the farce that this season was. Well, yes, however, he's absolving himself from this mess.
If PH did not follow the Data Analyst pick, and went his own way, which must have been signed off by people above him. He didn't sneak them in, Mourinho-like, in the laundry basket. They condoned his picks.
Or, PH followed the Data Analysts list and it went spectacularly wrong. JS cannot sack himself, or AP or the Data Analyst, as its JS choice of travel. PH came in with the fixtures and fittings when they took over GTFC so off he goes.
But you don't want to look behind the screen, ask questions,  as it might just upset you.

Quoted from Poojah

If you ask me it’s this culture of Data Engineering Ignorance, or DEI (should be DIE), that will be the downfall of this once great country.

Quoted from GrimPol

Not sure if you are telling "jokes" or actually believe what you write

DIE stands for Diversity Inclusion Equity, now that will kill this country.

Quoted from GrimPol

Your two posts are different subjects. I have a healthy scepticism of Data Led selection, I am not fully convinced.
My point though was that JS is blaming PH for the farce that this season was. Well, yes, however, he's absolving himself from this mess.
If PH did not follow the Data Analyst pick, and went his own way, which must have been signed off by people above him. He didn't sneak them in, Mourinho-like, in the laundry basket. They condoned his picks.
Or, PH followed the Data Analysts list and it went spectacularly wrong. JS cannot sack himself, or AP or the Data Analyst, as its JS choice of travel. PH came in with the fixtures and fittings when they took over GTFC so off he goes.
But you don't want to look behind the screen, ask questions,  as it might just upset you.

Quoted from rancido

In the article JS mentions that with all the data and insights available , we still ended up in a relegation battle? He explains that he and AP were " on a steep learning curve". He also explains that they did not fully integrate the new data lead approach throughout the organisation. " Traditional methods relying on an ' eye for a player' had propelled us out of the National League, so there was a resistance to placing data and strategy at the forefront ". I assume this is the criticism towards Hurst to which you alluded. JS openly admits that this was a mistake. " We lacked a defined game model, leaving recruitment decisions to the management team without a clear, owner-set strategy". JS clearly states that although we had recruited technical superior players, their potential was undercut by a clarity on their role. This can be clearly demonstrated by Hurst's persistence in playing Mullarkey at RB when his previous role had been as a right centre-back, a position he was more suited to. In other words, although he is critical of the decision to sign certain players by the team management, he is also admitting that he and AP were at fault for allowing this to happen.
Throughout the article he is just as critical of himself and AP as he is of PH and CD. " Ultimately this seasons setbacks fall on us, the major shareholders, and we fully accept that responsibility". No where does he solely blame PH and freely admits he was as much to blame for the disastrous season. " Andrew Petit and I apologised to our fans and have since established a defined game model with an aligned management team".
On the face of it we now have a fully integrated approach with the owners and team management " singing from the same hymn sheet".
As you can see I have looked behind the screen and any questions I did have were covered by the article. It was always going to be difficult for any new owners to drag this club from the mid 20th century state of mind that had been a huge feature of the previous incumbent. JS and AP are still learning what it takes to run a modern thinking professional Football League club but they are learning and fully prepared to admit where they went wrong. I don't think I can recall Fenty ever admitting that he got anything wrong.

Quoted from RonMariner

JS and AP have taken full responsibility for last season and have publicly apologised.

Quoted from chaos33

Yes but that’s a matter of publicly recorded fact.
Grim Pol says JS is ‘absolving himself from this mess’.
He is usually right, so the facts must be wrong 🫤🤷‍♂️

Quoted from rancido

I could be wrong but I get the impression that GrimPol doesn't like JS, doesn't like him having an article in The Guardian, doesn't like The Guardian or all three. Maybe nothing but just the impression that I get.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

To bring the discussion away from which suburb of Manchester is 2 hours and 34 minutes away from Blundell Park, I thought the core content of the article was interesting. He has nailed his colours to the mast now though. At some point in the future we will either get a transfer window wrong or fail to get the best out of the data-led signings. In a situation where we perform badly despite signing from the data, it will be interesting to see if the blame is levelled at the coach, the data, or those analysing the data.

If the standard of the January recruitment can be replicated over the summer then we are in a good place. I'd like a couple of young players with potential through the door also because we do need to be generating income from our transfer business if we are to progress.

Quoted from GrimPol

You're right, I don't like JS 's politics and the Sinister DIE he's into. I don't mind him prattling away in the Guardian, it's his life, but I don't like the Guardian.  Two out of three, not bad not a bad effort.
I missed the beating of his breast and chanting Mea Culpa by JS, so fair comment I wrote before finding out the facts, so Left Wing of me. Mea Culpa.
JS saying sorry, and I, doesn't absolve us from the fact that I wrote a badly researched piece, but he nearly sent the club into oblivion. And when we fans started to question what was going on early on in the season, not only were we fobbed off but told the Data showed we played ever so well. Does Pork Pie'ng cover this? I am worried that he's mishandled/mishandling the playing side and season 24/25 will
If you split the footballing side from the rest (ie stadium ) they're doing a fair job and you won't find a historic post with me moaning about it.
Will I be buying tickets, of course as you well know Fans are forever, Players/Managers/Owners are transient.

Quoted from rancido

I could be wrong but I get the impression that GrimPol doesn't like JS, doesn't like him having an article in The Guardian, doesn't like The Guardian or all three. Maybe nothing but just the impression that I get.

Quoted from GibMariner

Clubs go up and down the leagues generally, that I don’t have a problem with. Simple!! fortunes on the field come and go irrespective of intent to do the best. That I do t have a problem with.

What I have a problem with is wrecking the business case. Are we in a dash for cash. If you think ‘yes’ ask yourself why.

Bit like “one out” “one in “ was that a sign.

JS warns the figures are not good. What’s happened to his notion of “sustainability”

Hope I am very wrong. But!!!

Quoted from moosey_club

Without knowing what the data is they are focusing on we really can't comment.....if data was used in the January window did it bring improved players to the club ?

Smith..........on the fence
Thompson .......yes
Hume .......on the fence
Tharme....yes
Obikwu.....no

So not a terrible strike rate overall.....

Just hope data includes things like background checks for upcoming court cases, drink driving and some background checks regards professionalism.  

Quoted from rancido

Very magnanimous of you to admit you're errors as well as JS. At least you are open enough to admit you don't like JS , They Guardian and that you allow politics to affect your judgement of the running of a non- political industry ie football ( well at least as GTFC is concerned -  views where Rangers or Celtic are concerned is a different kettle of fish ). I think using the expression " oblivion" is a tad dramatic as many clubs of a similar standing to us have gone non- league only to return and many quite quickly. In fact we have twice and bounced back.
I don't think it's a case of " telling porky pies" about the data early in the season but you can put your own slant on it as you are, by your own admission, sceptical about a data lead pathway. You seem to overlook the fact that we had a hybrid version with recruitment mostly done by a more traditional approach and performances being judged by the data of individuals and as a collective. Yes, you could be right that by allowing PH to have more control over recruitment then JS did " mishandle" the situation and admitted as such. I'm sure during your working career you have mishandled situations , made wrong decisions and thought afterwards that you could have done things differently.As JS pointed out, we have a single, integrated approach now and I think any judgement should be reserved until we see the full implementation of this.

Quoted from GrimPol

Yes it is Magnanimous, have you ever been?
I never said I let politics affect my judgement, you pre assumed that.  My view of JS blinds you, its your problem.
and that you allow politics to affect your judgement of the running of a non-political industry ie football  Hang on a minute what was all that taking the knee for a crook, with a long history of charges from the USA. What has that got to do with Grimsby? Since when do we play in the Major League Soccer? I notice no calls on this site for taking the knee for the 1400+ Murdered, raped, kidnapped by Hamas.
"Oblivion" a tad dramatic??? Some people were signing off with mental issues on this forum due to the stress. Do you actually think a few years in the NL would have revived our fortunes somehow? I think this season has done some damage anyway. I know of three STH  travelling fans who came religiously from Manchester way who stopped coming by Xmas. They've been travelling for 20 years, and now have had enough. Yes they might relent, because we've all been there, but I'm not to sure as they gave up half the season.
You feel calm and happy that GTFC is safe in JS hands because?      Well I'm alarmed as I'm not sure DA came in because he was great, he came in because he was unemployed for 18 months and  acquiescent to the "New Data Driven Religion",  and other applicants (were there any) didn't want to touch it. That's my view but only JS knows, and he's not telling.

Quoted from GrimPol

Yes it is Magnanimous, have you ever been?
I never said I let politics affect my judgement, you pre assumed that.  My view of JS blinds you, its your problem.
and that you allow politics to affect your judgement of the running of a non-political industry ie football  Hang on a minute what was all that taking the knee for a crook, with a long history of charges from the USA. What has that got to do with Grimsby? Since when do we play in the Major League Soccer? I notice no calls on this site for taking the knee for the 1400+ Murdered, raped, kidnapped by Hamas.
"Oblivion" a tad dramatic??? Some people were signing off with mental issues on this forum due to the stress. Do you actually think a few years in the NL would have revived our fortunes somehow? I think this season has done some damage anyway. I know of three STH  travelling fans who came religiously from Manchester way who stopped coming by Xmas. They've been travelling for 20 years, and now have had enough. Yes they might relent, because we've all been there, but I'm not to sure as they gave up half the season.
You feel calm and happy that GTFC is safe in JS hands because?      Well I'm alarmed as I'm not sure DA came in because he was great, he came in because he was unemployed for 18 months and  acquiescent to the "New Data Driven Religion",  and other applicants (were there any) didn't want to touch it. That's my view but only JS knows, and he's not telling.

Quoted from rancido

I will always accept when I'm wrong and, like most people, often have been. That could be interpreted as " magnanimous" , so yes I have been.
Quote " I don't like JS's politics" - that, at face value, could be interpreted as letting politics cloud your judgement of JS.
You don't like The Guardian. Is that because of it's political stance, it's general content or because you prefer another newspaper?
Football is a non-political sport but certain clubs have been " highjacked" by political factions. I find your use of the" taking of the knee" as proof of politics in football very naïve. This was an expression that spread through all sports and certainly had nothing to do with football or the other sports. Regardless of it's roots it was a solidarity expression against racism , which I would like to think you are in agreement with. The introduction of the Palestine situation just shows that you are clutching at straws to get your point across.
As far as the use of " oblivion"  ( OED. - destruction or extinction) then I think it was hyperbole. FL1 contains Oxford United - twice , Lincoln City - 3, Cambridge -1 and Exeter - 1. These are all teams that have been relegated out of the FL , including the occasions, since 1987/88 season and regained their FL status. There are currently 6 teams in FL2, including ourselves, who have been non-league and returned. Stockport County- Champions, Wrexham and Mansfield- promoted, Doncaster- play-off position. Hardly destruction or extinction is it.
Yes , at this moment in time I do trust the club in JS's hands but who knows what the future will bring. It's patently obvious that you do not like the modern data lead approach but like so many things about this era, things are constantly evolving and developing. Having a Luddite approach to a constantly evolving world is not a healthy attitude to have.

Quoted from JK47

The key to football success is, and always has been, if the manger can get a tune out of individual players and the team.  Were our promoted teams full of the best players, and our relegated teams full of the worst players, or did people like McMenemy, Kerr, Buckley make "ordinary" players perform like world-beaters?

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Think if Biden can’t sort it in Palastine GTFC won’t…..
So let’s stick to footy and slagging off Scunny.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

I’m not sure Biden is even aware of where Palestine is these days .

Quoted from GrimPol

"Football is a non-political sport but certain clubs have been " highjacked" by political factions. I find your use of the" taking of the knee" as proof of politics in football very naïve" .Did you take the knee, or were you just happy the footballers take it for you by proxy?

Your turning this arguement/discussion as if JS+You are Pro Data Selection, and I am against it, which not I'm just not sold on it. You are of course.
The point you have made before is that "we all make mistakes"  Well yes, but some mistakes are small, and some are massive. JS made a massive mistake, and in a larger organisation, he would have been sacked by the people above him. But then cannot sack himself at GTFC can he?

The scenario is this. The Board decided to travel down the Data Recruitment road, and hired the services of  TransferLab in June 2021 ( we had just been relegated to the NL) PH said at the time “As a manager, I like to make sure I have as much information available to me to inform my decision-making. TransferLab adds another layer on top of what we already have and will help us to get an edge over the other clubs in our division.” So all main people are on board, right? In November 2022 a Head of Recruitment Analysis JH is hired , and Town boss Paul Hurst said:
“I’m delighted to welcome Joe to the Club. He comes very highly recommended, having worked with Steve Croudson in the past at a couple of clubs. Steve couldn’t speak highly enough of him, as others have done as well. PH still on board it seems. However it all went wrong, in recruitment for the 2023 24 season, and now we know that PH was allowed to do his own thing. JS had invested all this money and time with TransferLab and JH hire, and allows PH to do his own thing. JS knew he was making a bad judgement, but still made it. Now you are blinded by his politics and see nothing wrong. or just a mistake. Well I made a mistake last week and bought too many tomatoes, and had to dump some, about £1.50 worth. JS knew he was making  one costing many thousands, potential "Oblivion" into the NL, and maybe worse. Are those two mistakes the same? But roll on 2024-25, it can't be worse than the last season, can it? UTM
PS
If you think I'm naive in thinking that Politics in Sport/Business is not happening look up Linzi Smith (whose views  I endorse)  Newcastle Utd fan. The Diversity Inclusion Equity (DIE) that brought on her problems is of the same DNA as JS fronts. These are real lives being messed with.

I'll be waiting for the midnight knock from the "Thought Police" if you don't understand that comment, you haven't looked her up.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Haven't read in depth on this thread, just a quick read over to see what the topic is but I couldn't help pick up on this line.

Surely you're not so deep-rooted in blind dislike to not apply very basic rationale?

We acquire access to TransferLab at the start of the NL season and we go on to win promotion. So we could argue that both PHs methods and the acquisition of TL paid off and was worthwhile....?

The following season, we recruit a Head of Recruitment/Analysis in JH and - however he was deployed/utilised by PH - we went on to place our best finish in years and an FA Cup Quarter Final. So you could argue that PH, JH and TL was still worthwhile.....?

I'm interested to know how JS KNEW he was making a bad judgement when what he has is a team of people on the football side who have delivered two consecutive seasons of positives.

Time provides evidence of when things haven't gone to plan, as we found this season. It's only at that point you can determine whether your judgement was good or bad. His judgement in the summer was based on achievement and the evidence was positive in that sense. I think it was fairly universal at the time - and in a lot of cases is still the case - that player for player, when weighted against their predecessor we recruited better individuals into the club. Again, time has proven that Orsi was a bigger loss than the evidence of the past season - and his longer history - would have suggested.

This whole thing about oblivion is very wild and dramatic though. It would be horrendous to have to drop back to NL again, it's a pisspot league and we all know it, but even under JF we've been run prudently and we would carry on and as we have before would more than likely be competing at the top end and vying to come straight back.

Quoted from GrimPol

Surely you're not so deep-rooted in blind dislike to not apply very basic rationale? Steady on less hyperbole please, just because I don't like the guy's politics, doesn't mean I don't wish him well in steering GTFC to better things.
I'm interested to know how JS KNEW he was making a bad judgement when what he has is a team of people on the football side who have delivered two consecutive seasons of positives.    He knew because he made that rule, he set the whole thing up. ( When I write HE I mean the figurehead of the board), he hired TransferLab, he hired the Data Analyst and in JS words PH did his own thing. He blamed PH for not following the script/rules/orders what ever. He allowed PH not to do what he, JS set up. In any larger company, PH would have walked, but so would JS.
This whole thing about oblivion is very wild and dramatic though That's the second person who didn't like that word, why is it so upsetting, what do you want to call it a  hiccup? We are losing money as a club, both main shareholders have intimated they will not subsidise the club, and it must run on its own. That's fair enough. So how will a third stint in 14 years in the 5th Tier do it any good? And whilst we did get straight back up the last time, and as exciting as it was, we didn't half ride our luck. If TransferLab planned that, well I take my hat off to them.  So you fashion a word to your liking, that describes dropping into the 5th Tier whilst losing money, without upsetting anyone on the forum. Still keeping to hiccup?

Quoted from gtfc_chris

I don't recall JS blaming PH. He's insinuated that PH did his own thing and that it wasn't part of the game model. From my interpretation he's blamed himself for whatever shortfalls or decisions he's made that contributed to our poor season. You can take that as supporting your argument but it isn't. JS is not a football expert and relies on people around him to guide and provide balanced advice. If - by your logic - that it's JS' fault for allowing PH to go off script, then would we be sat here having enjoyed an FA Cup QF run? Surely he would have been sacked much earlier for not following orders? It would also stand to reason that DA would have been encouraged to carry on with 'Artell Ball' that saw us shipping goals for fun and driving us towards the drop just because it's the game model.

In the summer, on the back of two positive seasons why would you not trust the manager who has delivered those successes because you have a model you want to play? How can you determine whether the model is being adopted until you have either data that supports it, as we know the owners are seeking to do? Let us not forget that we don't know the specifics of what the model looks like, only those internal to the club know that. As I said before, only time will give you the evidence and rationale to decide whether a direction has proven fruitful or not. If we'd have sacked PH last summer we'd have been asking what the hell was going on after the previous two seasons. Fact. Even those who were critical of his pragmatic approach couldn't deny we'd experienced two fantastic years under his management.

It very much seems your using the benefit of what we know now and using it to batter JS for a feeling that was very different at the start of the season.

As for being relegated, yeah hiccough is fine by me. Scunthorpe are in a right mess, but they're not into oblivion. Ask Bury or Macclesfield about oblivion and they'll probably have some thoughts and for good reason. Of course we'd lose money, of course they're not going to subsidise it beyond their means but nor did JF. The club has always been sustainable, even if that comes at the expense of being a lower end L2/top end NL team for the last 15-20 years. Having grown up on the Championship days it's crap, but I'd rather be a permanent fixture at this level without ever needing to worry about 'oblivion' like Macc or Bury. Again, I think you're taking some comments that are applicable across the vast majority of clubs and spinning it to sound far worse than it would actually be for whatever purpose you want to batter JS for.

Quoted from Maringer

What exactly does DIE stand for? Am I correct guessing it is some kind of ridiculous right-wing conspiracy theory about liberal elites turning us all into women?

Quoted from Norseman

No you aren't. It's what happens when you make assumptions

Quoted from Maringer

What exactly does DIE stand for? Am I correct guessing it is some kind of ridiculous right-wing conspiracy theory about liberal elites turning us all into women?

Quoted from WesternMariner

I believe the correct acronym is DEI - for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion although I was born in the 1970’s so may be completely wrong.

Quoted from Maringer

Please explain to me what it is, then. I can't even find a meaning for it when searching online, which makes it likely to be some sort of a fringe view. I look forward to discovering just what it means. As it is GrimPol posting it (one of two on the forum who I have blocked), I'm pretty sure it will be relatively easy to pick it apart.

Quoted from Maringer

Oh, thanks. Is it just me, or does that sound like a good thing?

Quoted from Norseman

It's a good thing when applied correctly .Unfortunately in many cases it's used to shoehorn people into roles they should not be in for diversity ,equity and inclusion .

Quoted from Vance Warner

Any evidence of this?

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Time to move this topic over to non footy!

Quoted from Civvy at last

You can tell the season has ended 😕