Just Back on the Bus

The wind made it a  game of two halves. The outstanding difference was that Harrogate were prepared to shoot.
First half we pressed well but unfortunately we are relying on a 20 year old rookie to hold the ball up until we can get numbers up there.
Being in the side stand near the half way line I couldn't comment on the disallowed goal but it sèmed harsh.
Second half they used the wind to fire shots in from all over the place. Eastwood could maybe have done better with the goal but he was allowed to shoot.
There was a sense of ineviitability about the result once Town went behind. Plenty of effort to win the ball only to give it back with some shocking decision making and passing.
The subs made no real difference and Harrogste saw the game out fairly comfortably. Eastwood atoned for any blame for the goal with three or four really good saves.
Thsrme and Thompson battled well but overall the game panned out like too many this season.

Ultimately, it’s a game less for two of our rivals to catch us. Massive swings in goal difference aside, Forest Green now have to win all 3 of their remaining fixtures (against Wrexham, Morecambe and Notts County) in order to get past us, so that’s one relegation rival just about out of our race.

Performances are virtually irrelevant at this stage. We’re a step closer to safety, and that’s all that really matters.

The positive for me was its another game nearer the end. Can't wait for this god awful season to finish.

Biggest influence on that result was Artell. Overly defensive set up with no guile at all wasted a great opportunity to grab safety with a win.
Obikwu absolutely awful, sorry but he just was, how the hell he avoided the hook for so long before he finally went off I don't know...Artell's choice though.
Despite watching them all season I was still somehow shocked tonight by how poor the majority of the squad is.
Artells choice of starting 11 restricted us massively, hesitation in changing it up gave the subs little chance.

Crap all round.

Quoted from moosey_club

Biggest influence on that result was Artell. Overly defensive set up with no guile at all wasted a great opportunity to grab safety with a win.
Obikwu absolutely awful, sorry but he just was, how the hell he avoided the hook for so long before he finally went off I don't know...Artell's choice though.
Despite watching them all season I was still somehow shocked tonight by how poor the majority of the squad is.
Artells choice of starting 11 restricted us massively, hesitation in changing it up gave the subs little chance.

Crap all round.

It's one of footballs mysteries why Artell rates Obikwu. I've rarely seen a more ineffective and lethargic striker, and he had a couple of slightly better games for Artell to think he was the second coming.

He is not ready for a league 2 relegation scrap, and why we are putting him in that position is daft.

I think if we look at where we are and what’s left people might calm down a little. Sutton need to win at least 2 games. Forest Green need to beat Wrexham away to stay in in the competition and that’s if we get no more points.
It could be worse but I don’t think our team could be.

Just very poor arent we

4 more games, hopefully 3 of them mean nothing, and then we can just have 3 months off.

Noone had a good game tonight, though Eastwood made some decent saves 2nd half

Really feel for our travelling support tonight. I couldn't go and watched it on the small screen and I think I'm getting reported by the neighbours for loud foul and abusive language!

Can’t see FGR catching us now. But Sutton do concern me. If they win on Saturday I think it’s going to be an anxious week ahead.

The simple fact is that we are going to have to earn our place in L2 next season, we can’t rely on Sutton gifting it to us.

The goal difference advantage over them is down to 7, so it we lose on Saturday, which is very likely, and they manage a win at Harrogate then it’s going to get uncomfortably close. They could get to 48 points, a scary prospect because I don’t see us doing that.

The Swindon game is our most, possibly only, winnable game left so it is a must win. If we don’t then there is a good chance we end on 43 or 44 points which might not be enough.

God I hate this season.

Brilliant effort from the travelling support, safe journey home.

Just need to stay up & sign some players who can pass & control the ball.

M180 Turn Off Junction 5 from M18 is closed

Lots of possession first half, should have made more of it. Punished in the second half then tried to force it too much with a lot of aimless long balls.

It was a really poor game but think a point wouldn’t have been unfair and in truth the difference was a wonder strike.

Granted that’s a depressing place to be, to be thinking a point would have been a decent result at Harrogate but we have to judge with the context we find ourselves in.

Tiny step forward with the gap been the same and one less game available to FGR (who I think are done in terms of catching us) and Colchester (who I think stay up).

Saturday a big day now, I’m keeping my eye on that Harrogate Sutton game as much as ours. They fail to get something - it’s going to be tough to pull us back from there. An upside (yes, hurts me to even say it) Harrogate now within 4 of the playoffs so may fancy a late sniff of getting in there so might not be on the beach quite yet.

So, so, so bad on every level. Never seen a side so incapable of looking after the ball. Honestly don’t think we managed three consecutive passes in that second half. Mullarkey might as well have sent some of his passes by carrier pigeon as they’d have got there quicker.

Special mention for Holohan who surely has played himself out of a contract offer tonight, Thompson seemed a yard off the pace but Holohan was two yards behind that. Missed two golden opportunities to cap off an awful display. Describing Andrews’ performance would be a waste of valuable internet space. Just junk all round.

The second half was píssed away as the management refused to make any attacking change until gone 70mins for some reason - our efforts best summed up when defensive midfielder Green slid a ball down the line for Centre-half Rogers to chase, and it was shepherded out of play.

Absolutely mental that we were favourites to win that, just rubbish. Thought Eastwood could've done better with the goal but I was sat about 120 metres away and will probably never watch the highlights.

Quoted from barralad

The wind made it a  game of two halves. The outstanding difference was that Harrogate were prepared to shoot.
First half we pressed well but unfortunately we are relying on a 20 year old rookie to hold the ball up until we can get numbers up there.
Being in the side stand near the half way line I couldn't comment on the disallowed goal but it sèmed harsh.
Second half they used the wind to fire shots in from all over the place. Eastwood could maybe have done better with the goal but he was allowed to shoot.
There was a sense of ineviitability about the result once Town went behind. Plenty of effort to win the ball only to give it back with some shocking decision making and passing.
The subs made no real difference and Harrogste saw the game out fairly comfortably. Eastwood atoned for any blame for the goal with three or four really good saves.
Thsrme and Thompson battled well but overall the game panned out like too many this season.

Agree with everything you say Barra. Enjoyed your company tonight.

Quoted from moosey_club

Biggest influence on that result was Artell. Overly defensive set up with no guile at all wasted a great opportunity to grab safety with a win.
Obikwu absolutely awful, sorry but he just was, how the hell he avoided the hook for so long before he finally went off I don't know...Artell's choice though.
Despite watching them all season I was still somehow shocked tonight by how poor the majority of the squad is.
Artells choice of starting 11 restricted us massively, hesitation in changing it up gave the subs little chance.

Crap all round.

I've said that I'm often surprised at how poor we are despite seeing them plenty of times this season. Can't wait for the campaign to end.

Brought along a non town supporter tonight and felt embarrassed that was the standard we served up. It was atrocious from start to finish in terms of quality, neither side deserved to win. The officials also did their bit to ensure everyone who stepped on the pitch was as shite as each other.

Agreed on Obikwu, he gets into decent positions to score but he’s absolutely bloody awful with the ball at his feet. I remember him doing one good turn tonight when it dawned on me that’s the only time I’ve seen him adequately control a football in weeks. He’s young and learning but my god we look poor with him in the side.

Crewe away next weekend then I’m done watching for a few months, cannot wait.

Agree with everything written. All I’d add is….
Thought the game summed up why we are where we are.
In so many ways.

We have a crying need for players who are an upgrade technically. The glaring inability to control and pass the ball with any consistency is absolutely stark and was contrasted in basic terms by Harrogate’s second half performance in spells. At no point in the whole game did we show any creativity, guile or real skill. First half we had more ball retention and impetus, but, as always, failed to capitalise. The one chance we fashioned, we fluffed.
I’d have to see the footage of the disallowed goal to judge the decision.

If we want to do better next season - and we must - then I only saw 4 or 5 players on the pitch tonight who should be here next season. That’s the truth.

Keen to draw a line under this one and move on. The less said about it the better. When will some of them realise that they’re effectively playing for their professional careers? Special mention for Hume who was simply awful when he came on.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Brought along a non town supporter tonight and felt embarrassed that was the standard we served up. It was atrocious from start to finish in terms of quality, neither side deserved to win. The officials also did their bit to ensure everyone who stepped on the pitch was as shite as each other.

Agreed on Obikwu, he gets into decent positions to score but he’s absolutely bloody awful with the ball at his feet. I remember him doing one good turn tonight when it dawned on me that’s the only time I’ve seen him adequately control a football in weeks. He’s young and learning but my god we look poor with him in the side.

Crewe away next weekend then I’m done watching for a few months, cannot wait.

Look on the bright side.  The Alex are struggling to get a side out.  10 injured last week and a red card tonight.
I think you will just scrape through.  Best of luck - you dont want to go down again.

Quoted from trickeymickey

Look on the bright side.  The Alex are struggling to get a side out.  10 injured last week and a red card tonight.
I think you will just scrape through.  Best of luck - you dont want to go down again.

Yes but you still won!

Quoted from thornemariner

Agree with everything you say Barra. Enjoyed your company tonight.

Likewise mate.

Quoted from moosey_club

Biggest influence on that result was Artell. Overly defensive set up with no guile at all wasted a great opportunity to grab safety with a win.
Obikwu absolutely awful, sorry but he just was, how the hell he avoided the hook for so long before he finally went off I don't know...Artell's choice though.
Despite watching them all season I was still somehow shocked tonight by how poor the majority of the squad is.
Artells choice of starting 11 restricted us massively, hesitation in changing it up gave the subs little chance.

Crap all round.

Completely agree, watching that it's my opinion that most of the squad and the manager should be gone whichever League we are in.

Poor players and poor managerial decisions cost us any points from that game.

Quoted from bawarmy

I think if we look at where we are and what’s left people might calm down a little. Sutton need to win at least 2 games. Forest Green need to beat Wrexham away to stay in in the competition and that’s if we get no more points.
It could be worse but I don’t think our team could be.

You are missing the point, if we go down this shower of crap would likely take us the way Scunthorpe went, if we stay up then all I can see is another struggle unless most of them are sent packing.

Just watched the disallowed goal back half a dozen times. Can someone please put me straight on why it was disallowed because I can’t see anything wrong with it.

Looks off from this angle

It was offside so we can't blame the lino.We carry zero attacking threat and the subs border on the ridiculous.Obikwu and Holohan should have been hooked at HT and how Vernam doesn't start defies  belief.No point going OTT we've seen it all before this season but that was very much a winnable game chucked away.I feel for the travelling fans they got short changed AGAIN

Artell and his team's fault that last night. Said before game that I was disappointed with the line-up. Reverted back to type. Obikwu regularly gets bullied out of games and did last night how on earth he lasted as long as he did I will never know. We put out a team again with zero attacking intent and got what we deserved. We will look back at the season on our goals conceded personally I will look at the easy chances Holohan has missed.

Horses for courses . Have we ever beaten Harrogate since they came into the league ? But thats just an excue for the crap on offer

On a positive note they're just outside the play offs and although we was excrement for the very large majority of the game they weren't much better. Apart from a handful of teams the rest are fairly similar so with a handful of quality additions we could easily be just outside the play offs if not inside.

Have to agree re Obikwu last night, when he got the ball he couldn't seem to hold it up, or didn't know what to do with it, and even though he's pretty tall and the same height or taller than their defence he didn't seem to win many headers.

Also an interesting call putting Harry in at LWB. He did ok but thought Vernam would have been a better choice - assume it's preserving his fitness for the run in?

Hope everyone got home safe.

Whilst I do think Artell was too cautious as the game went on, he absolutely got it right with his selection of wingbacks.  

Their two wide lads almost turned Clifton and Smith inside out, they were incredibly tricky and difficult to deal with.  I thought Vernam played really well on Saturday but he would have been burnt toast against their right hand side last night.

Obikwu didn't have a great game at all, but then neither did Wilson on Saturday.  So you can see the logic behind starting the young lad.  I do find him frustrating though and large parts of the game I just wanted to shake some life into him.

Just a really disappointing and flat display, especially after Saturday when it was blood and thunder from start to end.  Tharme's got an absolute weapon of a throw but we seem completely incapable of winning anything from it.  Largely it's pointless unless we do something with it.

'Shake some life into him' re Obikwu is spot on. I swear at times Danny Rose was pointing to where he needed to run and tell him what to do in frustration rather than encouragement. It's not like it's the lad's first start, he's been with us a while now.

We need a Luke Waterfall style powerhouse on the end of those Tharme throws. We're definitely missing an opportunity here, as currently it looks like we defending them when he lobs them in rather than attacking them.

Maybe this is just me, but the throws are a waste of time, they dont get past the first man, we never seem to win any header from them

Quoted from diehardmariner

Tharme's got an absolute weapon of a throw but we seem completely incapable of winning anything from it.  Largely it's pointless unless we do something with it.

At the moment, Tharme's long throw is really effective at helping us clear our lines when the ball goes out deep in our half. Very helpful when we're under pressure. Also good for time-wasting as he trots slowly across to take them. Not quite Crocombe-cramp level of timewasting, but useful all the same. The referee can't complain about him time-wasting in these situations when he's been doing exactly the same all the way through the match.

Unfortunately, you're certainly right about the attacking value. In the past two or three home games which I've seen, he must have hurled the ball into the opposition box 30 or more times in total and we've not really got close to scoring from most of them. Just don't win the first header and it never seems to fall to our players whenever it isn't cleared out of the box.

The issue with the long throws is that Tharme's the only player we've got with any aerial capability, and he's the one who's lobbing the ball into the box. Obikwu as discussed has no idea how to use his height, Danny Rose is about 5ft 8 and gets crowded out by opposition CBs, Rodgers never seems to win any flick ons, and when they do get past the first man no town player ever seems to be in the right place to bundle it in. If we had 1 or 2 more 6ft+ units in the side we might actually be able to exploit the long throws a bit more.

Sorry, yes.  I should have said waste of time from an attacking perspective, I completely agree regards moving play up the pitch.

From the attacking perspective we just don't seem to have the ability to win headers.  Tharme is probably our best header of the ball and he's taking the throw.  Danny Rose and Curtis Thompson defy their respective heights but Rose you want feeding off the scraps and Thompson tends to hang around the edge of the box.

That leaves Rodgers and Mullarkey who are respectively ok but nothing more in the air.  Rodgers the better but still not quite Luke Waterfall.  I think there's something in maybe making opposition defences think about it a bit and occasionally go short, always having that option too as it at least draws a defender or two out the box.

Woeful 2nd half performance, the disallowed goal should've galvanised us, but in fact Harrogate upped their game and we went down a couple of notches.
It's interesting being so close to the action, (as opposed to Upper Findus) you can really see how difficult we make it look, how we huff and puff just to control the ball, or pass to an available team mate quickly without going backwards.
We lack strength, pace, height, leaders, and guile but hopefully (mainly due to the failings of others) we should just about make it.
Difficult to watch  

What has happened to Gav? Apparently another sitter missed last night so that is at least 3 points we have lost through his poor finishing. I wonder if he will send out another apology over social media?

I guess it’s unfair to pick him out as we seem to have plenty of players that miss sitters, including Obikwu, Wilson, and Arthur too. It’s another indication of the general lack of quality throughout the squad.

We really must do better. We will need a pretty comprehensive rebuild in the summer whatever division we end up in.

Quoted from RonMariner

What has happened to Gav? Apparently another sitter missed last night so that is at least 3 points we have lost through his poor finishing. I wonder if he will send out another apology over social media?

I guess it’s unfair to pick him out as we seem to have plenty of players that miss sitters, including Obikwu, Wilson, and Arthur too. It’s another indication of the general lack of quality throughout the squad.

We really must do better. We will need a pretty comprehensive rebuild in the summer whatever division we end up in.

Unfair to have Wilson in there, missed 3 in one game last week but before that I’m hard pushed to think of a time he missed a golden chance. He’s the best finisher we’ve got at the club IMO.

In the past 6 weeks or so Holohan’s missed an open-goal tap in at Morecambe, a 93rd-min one-on-one at Sutton, the pen against MK, plus the two chances last night. I like the guy but Jesus…

Yes, I know what you mean

Quoted from pontoonlew

Unfair to have Wilson in there, missed 3 in one game last week but before that I’m hard pushed to think of a time he missed a golden chance. He’s the best finisher we’ve got at the club IMO.

was amazed he wasnt brought on at HT

Quoted from neverapen

'Shake some life into him' re Obikwu is spot on. I swear at times Danny Rose was pointing to where he needed to run and tell him what to do in frustration rather than encouragement. It's not like it's the lad's first start, he's been with us a while now.

We need a Luke Waterfall style powerhouse on the end of those Tharme throws. We're definitely missing an opportunity here, as currently it looks like we defending them when he lobs them in rather than attacking them.

Obikwu is Pepple 2.0 - he’s got a few goals for us (which Pepple didn’t) but his general game awareness and anticipation of where to make the right runs is equally poor. Like Pepple he is unable to use his athleticism effectively.

I think there is a footballer in Wilson but he looks half-rsed and probably doesn’t want to be here. The only reason I can think that DA starts Obikwu is that his random running around might create some kind of defensive error, and that Wilson is better saving to exploit space late in a game. A completely sorry situation and deeply frustrating - we’ve had nearly 2 full seasons of not having 2 fit effective strikers available at the same time.
The second half last night was a horror show. Gav looked a sorry figure walking past the fans who were applauding him, he knows the team have let the fans down who continue to turn up in outstanding numbers. He’s had a poor season but at least he cares…

Quoted from Hagrid

was amazed he wasnt brought on at HT

Aye same, there’s surely not much difference between Obikwu and Gardner at this current moment surely? I’d rather see us blooding our own players as opposed to watching somebody else’s player constantly miscontrol the ball and stifle pretty much every attack we have.

The stats tell it all for Holohan this season. He scored 9 in 51 appearances last season and has 3 in 42 this season.

Everybody misses sitters, but he's been doing it regularly and we've got nobody else in central midfield who has really threatened to score many. Heck, Clifton has had a poor season, but he's scored as many goals, even though he's been playing as a jack of all trades back in defence for plenty of the games. No goals for Andrews, 2 for Green, 1 for Thompson (though he's usually sitting deeper so doesn't have many shots). A pretty poor return from those who play in the middle.

A real pity, as he's done a good job for us up to now, but I think his time at BP is probably coming to an end.

I'd also take Obikwu out of the team. He did his best when Rose was out injured but doesn't seem to be learning much, isn't a physical threat, doesn't seem to put the legwork in and just doesn't retain possession at all, or win that many free-kicks. Wilson looks to be on his way at the end of the season to me, but he at least can get a shot away when the chances come to him.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Aye same, there’s surely not much difference between Obikwu and Gardner at this current moment surely? I’d rather see us blooding our own players as opposed to watching somebody else’s player constantly miscontrol the ball and stifle pretty much every attack we have.

Perhaps there's that fear of chucking the kids in at the deep end here and ruining them.  I tend to favour a bit more of the sink or swim approach but I don't get to see the likes of Gardner in training every day.  

In a hypothetical world that sees us mathematically safe with 2 games to go, I'll be disappointed if Harry Wood or Obikwu get selected over own young lads. Indeed any of the loan players for that matter.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Unfair to have Wilson in there, missed 3 in one game last week but before that I’m hard pushed to think of a time he missed a golden chance. He’s the best finisher we’ve got at the club IMO.

By tradition I guess he will be playing for Crawley next season then.

Farrell keeps saying Obikwu is going to be some player so I would not be surprised if he tries to bring him back next season.

At the moment he seems a bit light weight which is because of his age.

He needs to gain strength to hold other players off and take care of himself.

Whether he will have this next season or in another year or two is anybodys guess.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Obikwu is Pepple 2.0 - he’s got a few goals for us (which Pepple didn’t) but his general game awareness and anticipation of where to make the right runs is equally poor. Like Pepple he is unable to use his athleticism effectively.

I think there is a footballer in Wilson but he looks half-rsed and probably doesn’t want to be here. The only reason I can think that DA starts Obikwu is that his random running around might create some kind of defensive error, and that Wilson is better saving to exploit space late in a game. A completely sorry situation and deeply frustrating - we’ve had nearly 2 full seasons of not having 2 fit effective strikers available at the same time.
The second half last night was a horror show. Gav looked a sorry figure walking past the fans who were applauding him, he knows the team have let the fans down who continue to turn up in outstanding numbers. He’s had a poor season but at least he cares…

That's very harsh, Pepple literally looked like a Sunday league footballer. Obikwu seems a bit disinterested but I don't know whether that's just the way he runs. I admit he's disappointed me as the Cov fans said he had blistering pace and used his body well. I'm yet to see him beat a defender for pace and despite being 6 foot 2/3 when he jumps he's about 5 foot 2. When he gets the ball to feet he looks capable but sometimes is often seen wanting too much time, there was a couple of times yesterday where he got himself a couple yards and shot. I agree with a couple posters on this thread that i'd much rather of seen Gardner given minutes however, been impressed with what i've seen at Boro and he uses his body very well. If your good enough, you're old enough and the lad quite clearly knows where the goal is. Too many times we've had young forwards in the youth team that score a lot of goals and we've not given them significant chances in the first team over the past years. Mulready and Southwell were two that scored a lot of goals as youngsters and we were too busy giving other teams players minutes. We can't let that happen again and I hope next season Cameron is used significantly because he's a special talent.

Quoted from Maringer

At the moment, Tharme's long throw is really effective at helping us clear our lines when the ball goes out deep in our half. Very helpful when we're under pressure. Also good for time-wasting as he trots slowly across to take them. Not quite Crocombe-cramp level of timewasting, but useful all the same. The referee can't complain about him time-wasting in these situations when he's been doing exactly the same all the way through the match.

Unfortunately, you're certainly right about the attacking value. In the past two or three home games which I've seen, he must have hurled the ball into the opposition box 30 or more times in total and we've not really got close to scoring from most of them. Just don't win the first header and it never seems to fall to our players whenever it isn't cleared out of the box.

When the long throws come into the penalty area it's up to our attackers to anticipate where the ball will go and react accordingly. The long throw can be a deadly weapon but there has to be a plan and structure on how to use it. Too often several players go for the same ball.

Quoted from rancido

When the long throws come into the penalty area it's up to our attackers to anticipate where the ball will go and react accordingly. The long throw can be a deadly weapon but there has to be a plan and structure on how to use it. Too often several players go for the same ball.

Yep the lack of a plan and any anticipation from anyone seem to be a reoccurring problem.
Another thing I've noticed a few times is that our player will have the ball waiting to give the ball to Tharme then he runs away as soon as he has given him it. Often there are no defenders anywhere near and a simple short throw will release them into a dangerous area. I cannot believe none of them have worked that out yet.

Quoted from LocalLadGTFC

That's very harsh, Pepple literally looked like a Sunday league footballer. Obikwu seems a bit disinterested but I don't know whether that's just the way he runs. I admit he's disappointed me as the Cov fans said he had blistering pace and used his body well. I'm yet to see him beat a defender for pace and despite being 6 foot 2/3 when he jumps he's about 5 foot 2. When he gets the ball to feet he looks capable but sometimes is often seen wanting too much time, there was a couple of times yesterday where he got himself a couple yards and shot. I agree with a couple posters on this thread that i'd much rather of seen Gardner given minutes however, been impressed with what i've seen at Boro and he uses his body very well. If your good enough, you're old enough and the lad quite clearly knows where the goal is. Too many times we've had young forwards in the youth team that score a lot of goals and we've not given them significant chances in the first team over the past years. Mulready and Southwell were two that scored a lot of goals as youngsters and we were too busy giving other teams players minutes. We can't let that happen again and I hope next season Cameron is used significantly because he's a special talent.

The problem we as a L2 club have with these young lads on loan is that they’re so inexperienced we’re basically just giving them their first taste of men’s football. It’s a big deal for them to get to grips with and so the majority of them look crap and go back to their club with mixed reviews at best . A couple that spring to mind are that lad from Bristol city who’s doing well now in their first team and Seb Revan who most on here dismissed but has had a decent season on loan to Rotherham . We’d be far better trying to give our youngsters a go rather than just take other clubs developing players on .

The offside goal, Obikwu is stood still in an offside position, makes no attempt to move back to stay onside. I hope that our analytical team point it out to him, that you never stay still in the six yard area waiting. Shows a lack of awareness

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

The problem we as a L2 club have with these young lads on loan is that they’re so inexperienced we’re basically just giving them their first taste of men’s football. It’s a big deal for them to get to grips with and so the majority of them look crap and go back to their club with mixed reviews at best . A couple that spring to mind are that lad from Bristol city who’s doing well now in their first team and Seb Revan who most on here dismissed but has had a decent season on loan to Rotherham . We’d be far better trying to give our youngsters a go rather than just take other clubs developing players on .

Totally understand mate, but how many of these players have we seen go back and be good? The two you've mentioned, then you have Terry Taylor who looked like he'd never kicked a ball here and was sold for a million. I get why these players are signed because they're from these so called elite academies but it's all well and good having ability. There needs to be a happy medium of young players we give chances to and taking these young players on loan. We've had 3 young pro's every year I think for at least 10 years now and how many of them have we seen actually play reguarly?

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

The problem we as a L2 club have with these young lads on loan is that they’re so inexperienced we’re basically just giving them their first taste of men’s football. It’s a big deal for them to get to grips with and so the majority of them look crap and go back to their club with mixed reviews at best . A couple that spring to mind are that lad from Bristol city who’s doing well now in their first team and Seb Revan who most on here dismissed but has had a decent season on loan to Rotherham . We’d be far better trying to give our youngsters a go rather than just take other clubs developing players on .

We get Obikwu, Barrow get a wily old hard case in Cole Stockton - 7 goals in 12 games. Our best loans have been out of favour more experienced players or when clubs are trying to lighten the wage bills - like George Lloyd.

Something has to change that’s for certain.

Quoted from Abdul19

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Looks off from this angle

Yep, looks a great spot by the linesman.

If you pause it just after the header he is clearly offside

Yeah hes offside. As he regularly is tbh (altho he is no Montel 'gender reveal' Gibson)

Kaydn Jackson was also raw.  They usually develop over time though.  We have limited time.

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Kaydn Jackson was also raw.  They usually develop over time though.  We have limited time.

IMHO we get virtually feck all out of these very raw young loanees, they are just bodies in the squad. Especially at L2 level as opposed to NL. The loaning club and player get more out of it - it’s often their first experience of men’s football other than the odd sub appearance in the tinpot cup. They are just using us to get it.

It was the right strategy to get a bigger core squad on longer contracts in the close season but PH fecked it up by wrong choices - both in and out.

Below is the list of young loanees we've signed who came here to cut their teeth a bit compared to those who were young professionals at the club that season, since we got back in the league first time round (16/17),

It surprised me but there's more players we've signed who proved to be of benefit than I remember.  I think there's a bit of recency bias with the likes of Mikey O'Neill and Tom Dickson-Peters et al.  All in the loans have tended to have given us something more often than not.  For every Shaun Tuton there was an Elliott Embleton.

Equally so there's not that many of the young lads who were probably hampered by the loan lads who were taking their place in the side.  The likes of Mattie Pollock got their chance and took it, whereas the Alex McMillan's of the world (sorry, I couldn't remember either) haven't set the world alight since leaving.  In fact there isn't any who have gone onto prove us wrong with a couple of flawed exceptions.  Joe Starbuck and Duncan Idehen went onto higher levels but their departures were strange ones.  Starbuck didn't cut it at Sheff Utd's development team and having had ok loan spells in Conf. North with Boston and Kiddy has made a whole 1 minute in the league for Tranmere this season.  Idehen has had limited opportunities at Bristol City but has since spent a fair bit of time on loan in the Conference South.

What stands out quite a lot is that we just seem to get some of these lads that little bit too early.  Kayden Jackson showed brief moments but not of a player who could cut it at the top end of the Championship.  I liked Sam Bell but I didn't think he would go onto make 80 appearances and score 11 goals in the second tier before his 22nd birthday.  Terry Taylor is obviously the best example.

Aspiration wise we need to try and get to that position where clubs will loan us players a bit further on in their journey.  That's probably the benefit of getting loan players in early and helping to develop them.  Let's say we help develop Obikwu this season, that'll build a bit of trust with Coventry.  Next season they might loan us their next Ephron Mason-Clark.   Same with Jamie Andrews.  There's so many times this season where I've looked at him and thought he's no better than Khouri, Hunt and I've also thought I'd rather see Braithwaite get a chance in there.  But who knows who we might be able to get from West Brom next season?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love us to blood all our own youngsters and have that side of XI home grown lads.  But it's not going to happen, certainly not overnight.  We haven't got a huge transfer budget and we're fighting everyone else in the division for the better players who are available.  Lack of those, lack of young professionals we can use in the first team so we have to plug the gap somewhere.  If we can, over time, get to a position, where clubs are prepared to loan us their Mason-Clark's that's going to be of a huge, huge benefit to us.   The challenge is getting there and making sure we can develop the loan lads.  My personal view is that last season was overkill.  We had too many young loanees and it was of no benefit at all.  Pepple, Richardson, Simmonds, Dickson-Peters...one or two at most, you can incorporate those into your squad and help them, maybe even hide them a bit when the times are tough.  With the full quota of 5 you're almost using them for the sake of it.

23/24

Harvey Cartwright - Of benefit
Jamie Andrews - Undecided
Justin Obikwu - Of benefit
Harry Wood - No benefit.

Jamie Bramwell
Cameron Gardner

22/23

Andy Smith - Of benefit
Bim Pepple - No benefit
Kiki Simmonds - No benefit
Lewis Richardson - Undecided, injuries made it difficult to stay
Mikey O'Neill - No benefit
Tom Dickson-Peters - No benefit

Jaz Goundry
Harvey Tomlinson
Edwin Essel
Aaron Braithwaite

21/22

Seb Revan - No benefit
Andy Smith - Of benefit
Callum Jones - Limited time
Will Bapaga - Limited time, but not sure we had anyone better than him waiting
Sam Bell - Limited time but gone onto fulfil potential
Ryley Towler - Of benefit and operating at higher level
Ajran Raikhy - Of benefit, operating at higher level
Alex Hunt - Of benefit (at the time)



20/21

Danny Preston - No benefit
Owura Edwards - Of benefit, albeit based on improving a shocking side
Terry Taylor - No benefit. No-one saw where he was heading
James Morton - No benefit
Owen Windsor - No benefit
Virgil Gomis - LOL
Jay Matete - Of benefit, higher level now
Idris El Mizouni - Didn't benefit us but exceeded us ever since
Joe Adams - No benefit (goal aside)

Duncan Idehen
Ben Grist
Jock Curran
Harvey Tomlinson
Evan Khouri
Joe Starbuck
Cameron Painter
Louis Boyd
Luis Adlard

19/20

Liam Gibson - Of benefit, operated at similar or higher level since
Ethan Robson - Of benefit, operating higher up consistently
Anthony Glennon - Of benefit, certainly at the time
Josh Benson - Of benefit, £1million player not long after us

Ollie Battersby
Matty Pollock
Brandon Buckley
Brandon McPherson
Joey Hope

18/19

Akin Famewo - Of benefit, higher level since
Elliott Embelton - Of benefit
Joe Grayson - Of benefit, higher level until injuries took hold

Rumarn Burell

17/18

Diallang Jaiyesimi - Under utilised, mainly higher level since
Charles Vernam - Became permament deal
Easah Suliman - No benefit

Jack Keeble
Tom Sawyer
Ahkeem Rose
Emil Powles
Mickey Davies
Alex McMillan

16/17

Kayden Jackson - Did far better once leaving
Brandon Comley - Limited benefit, decent career since
Dean Henderson - Of benefit, incredible career since
Shaun Tuton - No benefit
Luke Maxwell - No benefit
Calum Dyson - Of benefit, injuries prevented very good career

Quoted from diehardmariner

Below is the list of young loanees we've signed who came here to cut their teeth a bit compared to those who were young professionals at the club that season, since we got back in the league first time round (16/17),

It surprised me but there's more players we've signed who proved to be of benefit than I remember.  I think there's a bit of recency bias with the likes of Mikey O'Neill and Tom Dickson-Peters et al.  All in the loans have tended to have given us something more often than not.  For every Shaun Tuton there was an Elliott Embleton.

Equally so there's not that many of the young lads who were probably hampered by the loan lads who were taking their place in the side.  The likes of Mattie Pollock got their chance and took it, whereas the Alex McMillan's of the world (sorry, I couldn't remember either) haven't set the world alight since leaving.  In fact there isn't any who have gone onto prove us wrong with a couple of flawed exceptions.  Joe Starbuck and Duncan Idehen went onto higher levels but their departures were strange ones.  Starbuck didn't cut it at Sheff Utd's development team and having had ok loan spells in Conf. North with Boston and Kiddy has made a whole 1 minute in the league for Tranmere this season.  Idehen has had limited opportunities at Bristol City but has since spent a fair bit of time on loan in the Conference South.

What stands out quite a lot is that we just seem to get some of these lads that little bit too early.  Kayden Jackson showed brief moments but not of a player who could cut it at the top end of the Championship.  I liked Sam Bell but I didn't think he would go onto make 80 appearances and score 11 goals in the second tier before his 22nd birthday.  Terry Taylor is obviously the best example.

Aspiration wise we need to try and get to that position where clubs will loan us players a bit further on in their journey.  That's probably the benefit of getting loan players in early and helping to develop them.  Let's say we help develop Obikwu this season, that'll build a bit of trust with Coventry.  Next season they might loan us their next Ephron Mason-Clark.   Same with Jamie Andrews.  There's so many times this season where I've looked at him and thought he's no better than Khouri, Hunt and I've also thought I'd rather see Braithwaite get a chance in there.  But who knows who we might be able to get from West Brom next season?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love us to blood all our own youngsters and have that side of XI home grown lads.  But it's not going to happen, certainly not overnight.  We haven't got a huge transfer budget and we're fighting everyone else in the division for the better players who are available.  Lack of those, lack of young professionals we can use in the first team so we have to plug the gap somewhere.  If we can, over time, get to a position, where clubs are prepared to loan us their Mason-Clark's that's going to be of a huge, huge benefit to us.   The challenge is getting there and making sure we can develop the loan lads.  My personal view is that last season was overkill.  We had too many young loanees and it was of no benefit at all.  Pepple, Richardson, Simmonds, Dickson-Peters...one or two at most, you can incorporate those into your squad and help them, maybe even hide them a bit when the times are tough.  With the full quota of 5 you're almost using them for the sake of it.

23/24

Harvey Cartwright - Of benefit
Jamie Andrews - Undecided
Justin Obikwu - Of benefit
Harry Wood - No benefit.

Jamie Bramwell
Cameron Gardner

22/23

Andy Smith - Of benefit
Bim Pepple - No benefit
Kiki Simmonds - No benefit
Lewis Richardson - Undecided, injuries made it difficult to stay
Mikey O'Neill - No benefit
Tom Dickson-Peters - No benefit

Jaz Goundry
Harvey Tomlinson
Edwin Essel
Aaron Braithwaite

21/22

Seb Revan - No benefit
Andy Smith - Of benefit
Callum Jones - Limited time
Will Bapaga - Limited time, but not sure we had anyone better than him waiting
Sam Bell - Limited time but gone onto fulfil potential
Ryley Towler - Of benefit and operating at higher level
Ajran Raikhy - Of benefit, operating at higher level
Alex Hunt - Of benefit (at the time)



20/21

Danny Preston - No benefit
Owura Edwards - Of benefit, albeit based on improving a shocking side
Terry Taylor - No benefit. No-one saw where he was heading
James Morton - No benefit
Owen Windsor - No benefit
Virgil Gomis - LOL
Jay Matete - Of benefit, higher level now
Idris El Mizouni - Didn't benefit us but exceeded us ever since
Joe Adams - No benefit (goal aside)

Duncan Idehen
Ben Grist
Jock Curran
Harvey Tomlinson
Evan Khouri
Joe Starbuck
Cameron Painter
Louis Boyd
Luis Adlard

19/20

Liam Gibson - Of benefit, operated at similar or higher level since
Ethan Robson - Of benefit, operating higher up consistently
Anthony Glennon - Of benefit, certainly at the time
Josh Benson - Of benefit, £1million player not long after us

Ollie Battersby
Matty Pollock
Brandon Buckley
Brandon McPherson
Joey Hope

18/19

Akin Famewo - Of benefit, higher level since
Elliott Embelton - Of benefit
Joe Grayson - Of benefit, higher level until injuries took hold

Rumarn Burell

17/18

Diallang Jaiyesimi - Under utilised, mainly higher level since
Charles Vernam - Became permament deal
Easah Suliman - No benefit

Jack Keeble
Tom Sawyer
Ahkeem Rose
Emil Powles
Mickey Davies
Alex McMillan

16/17

Kayden Jackson - Did far better once leaving
Brandon Comley - Limited benefit, decent career since
Dean Henderson - Of benefit, incredible career since
Shaun Tuton - No benefit
Luke Maxwell - No benefit
Calum Dyson - Of benefit, injuries prevented very good career

Great bit of analysis. What strikes me is that the area we most struggle to be effective in the permanent transfer market - up front, we also struggle to get good loanees. I would say Obikwu is only of benefit because we’ve feck all depth in that position. (Sorry to mention his name yet again) Orsi would have made that loan deal unnecessary…

Quoted from diehardmariner

Below is the list of young loanees we've signed who came here to cut their teeth a bit compared to those who were young professionals at the club that season, since we got back in the league first time round (16/17),

It surprised me but there's more players we've signed who proved to be of benefit than I remember.  I think there's a bit of recency bias with the likes of Mikey O'Neill and Tom Dickson-Peters et al.  All in the loans have tended to have given us something more often than not.  For every Shaun Tuton there was an Elliott Embleton.

Equally so there's not that many of the young lads who were probably hampered by the loan lads who were taking their place in the side.  The likes of Mattie Pollock got their chance and took it, whereas the Alex McMillan's of the world (sorry, I couldn't remember either) haven't set the world alight since leaving.  In fact there isn't any who have gone onto prove us wrong with a couple of flawed exceptions.  Joe Starbuck and Duncan Idehen went onto higher levels but their departures were strange ones.  Starbuck didn't cut it at Sheff Utd's development team and having had ok loan spells in Conf. North with Boston and Kiddy has made a whole 1 minute in the league for Tranmere this season.  Idehen has had limited opportunities at Bristol City but has since spent a fair bit of time on loan in the Conference South.

What stands out quite a lot is that we just seem to get some of these lads that little bit too early.  Kayden Jackson showed brief moments but not of a player who could cut it at the top end of the Championship.  I liked Sam Bell but I didn't think he would go onto make 80 appearances and score 11 goals in the second tier before his 22nd birthday.  Terry Taylor is obviously the best example.

Aspiration wise we need to try and get to that position where clubs will loan us players a bit further on in their journey.  That's probably the benefit of getting loan players in early and helping to develop them.  Let's say we help develop Obikwu this season, that'll build a bit of trust with Coventry.  Next season they might loan us their next Ephron Mason-Clark.   Same with Jamie Andrews.  There's so many times this season where I've looked at him and thought he's no better than Khouri, Hunt and I've also thought I'd rather see Braithwaite get a chance in there.  But who knows who we might be able to get from West Brom next season?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love us to blood all our own youngsters and have that side of XI home grown lads.  But it's not going to happen, certainly not overnight.  We haven't got a huge transfer budget and we're fighting everyone else in the division for the better players who are available.  Lack of those, lack of young professionals we can use in the first team so we have to plug the gap somewhere.  If we can, over time, get to a position, where clubs are prepared to loan us their Mason-Clark's that's going to be of a huge, huge benefit to us.   The challenge is getting there and making sure we can develop the loan lads.  My personal view is that last season was overkill.  We had too many young loanees and it was of no benefit at all.  Pepple, Richardson, Simmonds, Dickson-Peters...one or two at most, you can incorporate those into your squad and help them, maybe even hide them a bit when the times are tough.  With the full quota of 5 you're almost using them for the sake of it.

23/24

Harvey Cartwright - Of benefit
Jamie Andrews - Undecided
Justin Obikwu - Of benefit
Harry Wood - No benefit.

Jamie Bramwell
Cameron Gardner

22/23

Andy Smith - Of benefit
Bim Pepple - No benefit
Kiki Simmonds - No benefit
Lewis Richardson - Undecided, injuries made it difficult to stay
Mikey O'Neill - No benefit
Tom Dickson-Peters - No benefit

Jaz Goundry
Harvey Tomlinson
Edwin Essel
Aaron Braithwaite

21/22

Seb Revan - No benefit
Andy Smith - Of benefit
Callum Jones - Limited time
Will Bapaga - Limited time, but not sure we had anyone better than him waiting
Sam Bell - Limited time but gone onto fulfil potential
Ryley Towler - Of benefit and operating at higher level
Ajran Raikhy - Of benefit, operating at higher level
Alex Hunt - Of benefit (at the time)



20/21

Danny Preston - No benefit
Owura Edwards - Of benefit, albeit based on improving a shocking side
Terry Taylor - No benefit. No-one saw where he was heading
James Morton - No benefit
Owen Windsor - No benefit
Virgil Gomis - LOL
Jay Matete - Of benefit, higher level now
Idris El Mizouni - Didn't benefit us but exceeded us ever since
Joe Adams - No benefit (goal aside)

Duncan Idehen
Ben Grist
Jock Curran
Harvey Tomlinson
Evan Khouri
Joe Starbuck
Cameron Painter
Louis Boyd
Luis Adlard

19/20

Liam Gibson - Of benefit, operated at similar or higher level since
Ethan Robson - Of benefit, operating higher up consistently
Anthony Glennon - Of benefit, certainly at the time
Josh Benson - Of benefit, £1million player not long after us

Ollie Battersby
Matty Pollock
Brandon Buckley
Brandon McPherson
Joey Hope

18/19

Akin Famewo - Of benefit, higher level since
Elliott Embelton - Of benefit
Joe Grayson - Of benefit, higher level until injuries took hold

Rumarn Burell

17/18

Diallang Jaiyesimi - Under utilised, mainly higher level since
Charles Vernam - Became permament deal
Easah Suliman - No benefit

Jack Keeble
Tom Sawyer
Ahkeem Rose
Emil Powles
Mickey Davies
Alex McMillan

16/17

Kayden Jackson - Did far better once leaving
Brandon Comley - Limited benefit, decent career since
Dean Henderson - Of benefit, incredible career since
Shaun Tuton - No benefit
Luke Maxwell - No benefit
Calum Dyson - Of benefit, injuries prevented very good career

that. Who the feck was akin fanewo???
Thanks for