Something to bear in mind

I know there is some unrest with Paul Hurst and to some extent see the frustration, however there are some other things to consider.
We are undoubtedly lucky to have escaped the National League and to have new owners with the best intentions .
That said the owners despite being forward thinking in their planning will make mistakes this is the only club they have owned and l am sure they are learning all the time .
There is no reason to demand promotion we are a small club that have had some horrendous seasons. There will be a squad which will click but we are a league 2 club with players at league 2 level for a reason.
Interestingly the majority of fans demand ex players back and when they don't produce in the first five games ( Charles Vernam) suddenly all are devastated that we re-signed him. Not a good look is it . Either let it go when players leave or reduce expectations.
There's a lot to be said for enjoying being competitive in a league and taking it for what it is. We are right to have opinions and views which is part of supporting a team as well. But some of the vitriolic stuff you see, and it's only a small minority is borne out of an inability to control emotions.
Supporting a football club must be really difficult if anger overtakes disappointment.
And if we talk about getting it wrong when Holloway came in he was the most lauded appointment I've seen in all my years of supporting Town , so we aren't all infallible ourselves, are we?
I'm not sure Paul Hurst will get it right, given a promotion, a stabilizing season with an FA cup quarter final, he deserves the time to do so. The question is what do we want from a manager. What's are individual/group expectations for the club and what would we settle for, for now.
For me , apart from Wrexham we haven't been turned over, with players to return can we stay in touch and hopefully click. Are there players that Hurst has bought in that perhaps haven't done what he wants. Time will tell but enjoy the ride. We aren't as poor as some would have us believe. and were not as settled  as the signings suggest we should be.Thats football folks

I get your points , but we are not small club in comparison to 2/3rds of league 2 .

We need to strive for better - much 'smaller' clubs have walked right though league 2 with smaller budgets than ours , and 1 or 2 might even this season .

I don't want to see us settling for mid table mediocrity in league 2 , but strive to be an over achiever without the need for 'luck ' but a FULL decent season ,rather than fleeting moments .

We need to do better , to make sure the momentum that has been gained isn't lost like previous false dawns .

When did the reaction to wins and losses become so extreme between utter elation and sheer despondency?

We’ve clearly not set the world alight so far, and of course we shouldn’t settle for mediocrity, but we’re only nine games into the season. Is that enough time to fire a manager? My instinct, as is usually the case when Hurst comes under scrutiny, is that there are a load of people for whom his style has always been perceived as boring, and so whenever there is a chance to jump on him, they take that chance.

When a Hurst team is playing at its best, it is enjoyable to watch – it’s solid to the point you never feel the opposition will score, and the more creative players have licence to do their thing (usually wingers cutting in, playing through-balls, or else the individual brilliance of a McAtee-type or, this season, Eisa). When a Hurst team is not quite clicking then, yes, it can be a bit turgid.

What I would say is that it feels like this year we’ve seen a bit of departure from the default – we’re more possession-based and generally play quite high up the pitch. I assume this has been a conscious decision by the management on our style of play (maybe even in response to last season). You can’t expect to implement a new style and have us playing a flawless passing game combined with thousands of goals from the get-go.

The owners have backed Hurst, the general census is that we’ve upgraded in most areas and I’d back the coaching staff to learn from the first part of the season and improve as we go on.

Quoted from kafunanapar140909

When did the reaction to wins and losses become so extreme between utter elation and sheer despondency?

We’ve clearly not set the world alight so far, and of course we shouldn’t settle for mediocrity, but we’re only nine games into the season. Is that enough time to fire a manager? My instinct, as is usually the case when Hurst comes under scrutiny, is that there are a load of people for whom his style has always been perceived as boring, and so whenever there is a chance to jump on him, they take that chance.

When a Hurst team is playing at its best, it is enjoyable to watch – it’s solid to the point you never feel the opposition will score, and the more creative players have licence to do their thing (usually wingers cutting in, playing through-balls, or else the individual brilliance of a McAtee-type or, this season, Eisa). When a Hurst team is not quite clicking then, yes, it can be a bit turgid.

What I would say is that it feels like this year we’ve seen a bit of departure from the default – we’re more possession-based and generally play quite high up the pitch. I assume this has been a conscious decision by the management on our style of play (maybe even in response to last season). You can’t expect to implement a new style and have us playing a flawless passing game combined with thousands of goals from the get-go.

The owners have backed Hurst, the general census is that we’ve upgraded in most areas and I’d back the coaching staff to learn from the first part of the season and improve as we go on.

Great post.

Yeah that was a good post.

I was idly wondering the other day …..how will our league position and relative budget correlate when we look at both league tables after 10 games? I know the idea of a table of L2 club budgets is an exercise in pure guesswork, probably regardless of how you rate your own acumen, but we are 17th. Let’s say after 10 games we are somewhere between 12th and 20th, what do people make of that? Reckon we’ve got a top 6 budget? Top half budget? Dunno. Does something like 17th seem about right for what we’ve spent on staff?

If I was going to make a guess I’d say we maybe have a middling budget. We’ve got a healthy turnover though - must be top 12. Whether that should make any difference - I’m not clever enough to know, but I’d love to be able to compare progress and performance in that way.

Quoted from kafunanapar140909

When did the reaction to wins and losses become so extreme between utter elation and sheer despondency?

We’ve clearly not set the world alight so far, and of course we shouldn’t settle for mediocrity, but we’re only nine games into the season. Is that enough time to fire a manager? My instinct, as is usually the case when Hurst comes under scrutiny, is that there are a load of people for whom his style has always been perceived as boring, and so whenever there is a chance to jump on him, they take that chance.

When a Hurst team is playing at its best, it is enjoyable to watch – it’s solid to the point you never feel the opposition will score, and the more creative players have licence to do their thing (usually wingers cutting in, playing through-balls, or else the individual brilliance of a McAtee-type or, this season, Eisa). When a Hurst team is not quite clicking then, yes, it can be a bit turgid.

What I would say is that it feels like this year we’ve seen a bit of departure from the default – we’re more possession-based and generally play quite high up the pitch. I assume this has been a conscious decision by the management on our style of play (maybe even in response to last season). You can’t expect to implement a new style and have us playing a flawless passing game combined with thousands of goals from the get-go.

The owners have backed Hurst, the general census is that we’ve upgraded in most areas and I’d back the coaching staff to learn from the first part of the season and improve as we go on.

I have always liked Hurst  and think he's a safe pair of hands who provides great 'moments' but never a consistent title or top 3 challenge , but a team that will in the main finish around where their budget sits in the  league (which he has barring the great season at Shrewsbury and a disaster at Ipswich ) .

My mind hasn't been made up by one game, but from both tenures that in reality Hurst won't get us out of league 2 , unless we scrape 6 or 7th one year and he provides some of those great one off games he seems to be able to .

We will probably go to Swindon and win , because that's the common theme win or draw the games we shouldn't and then draw or lose the one's we should win .

He deserves time as he's earnt it and in all probability we will never be in a relegation fight , but how long that will be fine for the fanbase and more importantly Stockwood and Pettit is the key question I think . If say in 3 years we are a mid table league 2 club in a relatively similiar position will that cut it ?

I will add , I would love it if Hurst and the lads prove me wrong .Because he seems a genuinely decent bloke and the knee jerk reactions after one off results by some , who seemingly want him to fail is out of order at times ; like I have said before at least give him credit when we do pull out these cracking results ,rather than just seemingly appear when we lose and  some almost want him to fail to say 'i told you so ' .

I would much rather we go on a hell of a run and people can say 'I told you so ' to me after we finish top 3 .

It feels like teams are always in great form when we play them. We've only played 9 games and we've managed to play 5 of the top 7, with number 6 coming next week!

Something else to bear in mind look at the 4 sides directly above us then think respective budgets. Had Town on Saturday had Bogle rather than Pyke up top we'd have probably been 4-0 up when they fluked their 1st. Strikers cost money and Saturday highlighted why you have to pay tge fee zbx get them in.PH also seems to have wasted money on midfielders we don't need?

Quoted from Mappers

I have always liked Hurst  and think he's a safe pair of hands who provides great 'moments' but never a consistent title or top 3 challenge , but a team that will in the main finish around where their budget sits in the  league (which he has barring the great season at Shrewsbury and a disaster at Ipswich ) .

My mind hasn't been made up by one game, but from both tenures that in reality Hurst won't get us out of league 2 , unless we scrape 6 or 7th one year and he provides some of those great one off games he seems to be able to .

We will probably go to Swindon and win , because that's the common theme win or draw the games we shouldn't and then draw or lose the one's we should win .

He deserves time as he's earnt it and in all probability we will never be in a relegation fight , but how long that will be fine for the fanbase and more importantly Stockwood and Pettit is the key question I think . If say in 3 years we are a mid table league 2 club in a relatively similiar position will that cut it ?

I will add , I would love it if Hurst and the lads prove me wrong .Because he seems a genuinely decent bloke and the knee jerk reactions after one off results by some , who seemingly want him to fail is out of order at times ; like I have said before at least give him credit when we do pull out these cracking results ,rather than just seemingly appear when we lose and  some almost want him to fail to say 'i told you so ' .

I would much rather we go on a hell of a run and people can say 'I told you so ' to me after we finish top 3 .

I'm - at present - one of the very ardent supporters of PH. Not out of blind loyalty or senseless faith, but based on a learning of his approach and although it can be frustrating, patience often wins where he is concerned and I'm willing to be patient.

In 3 years, if we're still in the same position then I think it would be wholly acceptable to look at a change of stewardship. I think three years of mid-table wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen to us, the constant whinging from sections of the fan base would be more painful. But three years would also be a suitable time-frame to say that the incremental improvements aren't adding up year on year to take us the step further we'd all like to go and that a fresh set of ideas might be required. A more nuanced question would be what would happen if we finished 11th last season, 9th this one, 8th next one and 6th the year after and failed in the PO final. That's steady development into the play-offs, do you stick with the idea that the trajectory suggests you'd make the grade the following season or do you say it hasn't worked and we don't trust you'll see us over the line. Is that level of patience too much to ask of the wider fan base?

All I know is that when I saw us a Wallsall we looked really good for 35 minutes in the second half, and we looked great for the first half at Bradford.

Ok, we didn't win either game, because we didn't sustain the quality for 90 minutes. But the point is that when this team clicks, and when it has key players available, it really does look a formidable outfit for this division.

So the potential is certainly there for us to be a class act. It hasn't happened nearly enough, but I do think that the potential is real. I think it's more likely that we are a decent team playing badly at the moment, than a totally irredeemably  bad team.

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

I know there is some unrest with Paul Hurst.
There is no reason to demand promotion. We are a small club that has had some horrendous seasons.

I'm not demanding promotion this year, I'm demanding we don't drop out of the Football League again.

Minimum three wins next month, otherwise I fear we are sleepwalking to relegation.

Quoted from White_shorts

I'm not demanding promotion this year, I'm demanding we don't drop out of the Football League again.

Minimum three wins next month, otherwise I fear we are sleepwalking to relegation.

I had someone on Twitter last season full of angst because he had 'set his mind on promotion '. I agree but we won't go down with this side.

Hurst teams never implode , and when there is any unrest he invariably pulls a result out of the bag - I would be very suprised if we got dragged into any sort of relegation battle .

Again something to bear in mind Hurst is one of two Manager's to take us out the football league

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Again something to bear in mind Hurst is one of two Manager's to take us out the football league

He’s also taken us back into the Football League. Twice.

Quoted from davmariner

He’s also taken us back into the Football League. Twice.

Unique in doing that .Does this mean he's a good non league manager who can't progress at the higher EFL level?

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Unique in doing that .Does this mean he's a good non league manager who can't progress at the higher EFL level?

I think he's got a ceiling in terms of his abilities which are defence related which also means his team are a pretty dull watch. That said, football is a results business.

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

I disagree to some point we are a small club which has punched.above our weight but we are a small club with a budget that can compete but also we are in an uncompetitive part of the country which will always hold us back

I can't agree we 'have punched above our weight' at least in  in the last 20 years ;  league 2 or the NL - for me to get to league 1 and sustain would be 'punching above our weight ' with the current state of the lower league's .

If league 1 was filled out with high end clubs I could accept it  but when you have Burton , Cambridge , Cheltenham and up until recently Morecambe + Accrington and many more besides holding their own in league 1 I think in the short to medium term it's not too much of an ask for likewise .

Quoted from Mappers

I can't agree we 'have punched above our weight' at least in  in the last 20 years ;  league 2 or the NL - for me to get to league 1 and sustain would be 'punching above our weight ' with the current state of the lower league's .

If league 1 was filled out with high end clubs I could accept it  but when you have Burton , Cambridge , Cheltenham and up until recently Morecambe + Accrington and many more besides holding their own in league 1 I think in the short to medium term it's not too much of an ask for likewise .

As an aside, Cheltenham are played 11, lost 10 so far this season.  Top scorer is James Gibbons, a Bristol Rovers defender who scored an own goal.

Quoted from bedders78

As an aside, Cheltenham are played 11, lost 10 so far this season.  Top scorer is James Gibbons, a Bristol Rovers defender who scored an own goal.

On the flip side, Stevenage (spit) are doing remarkably well, and won again on Saturday, away from home 3-0.

Boils my p1ss.

Quoted from ginnywings

On the flip side, Stevenage (spit) are doing remarkably well, and won again on Saturday, away from home 3-0.

Boils my p1ss.

So would you have been happy if we had appointed Steve Evans as Town manager?

Quoted from gtfc_chris

I'm - at present - one of the very ardent supporters of PH. Not out of blind loyalty or senseless faith, but based on a learning of his approach and although it can be frustrating, patience often wins where he is concerned and I'm willing to be patient.

In 3 years, if we're still in the same position then I think it would be wholly acceptable to look at a change of stewardship. I think three years of mid-table wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen to us, the constant whinging from sections of the fan base would be more painful. But three years would also be a suitable time-frame to say that the incremental improvements aren't adding up year on year to take us the step further we'd all like to go and that a fresh set of ideas might be required. A more nuanced question would be what would happen if we finished 11th last season, 9th this one, 8th next one and 6th the year after and failed in the PO final. That's steady development into the play-offs, do you stick with the idea that the trajectory suggests you'd make the grade the following season or do you say it hasn't worked and we don't trust you'll see us over the line. Is that level of patience too much to ask of the wider fan base?

Great post and right there with you.

It's weird how people think changing manager works. It fails as much as it works. You look at the likes of Chelsea, and Watford. Absolute disaster. Forest stuck with their manager and he turned it around, even after a bad run of form. You either hold the players or manager to account. Sacking often fails more, and new managers often want wholesale changes and financial it nobbles the club.

Paul Hurst has a lot of positive traits and also kept Shrewsbury in League 1, we might need that if we sneak up.

I've never feared Paul Hurst will take us down. Not with his squad. I do think he'll finish higher than last year, but wouldn't bemoan if it was midtable with a more possession based style of play that he's working on. Building on that platform could be useful and if hopefully Wrexham have gone up and are no longer a problem for us, it could be helpful. I do believe once he gets people fit he'll be able to get us on a bit of a run. He's always willing to hold players to account and drop them when they aren't performing, and when we get that competition back in the forward line (Wilson, Rose, and later Vernan), I think we're going to see some real improvements in form. The next game for us isn't going to be great, but after that, it's a real opportunity to start putting wins on the board. If we can keep people fit, I really feel we'll be getting closer to the play-off places.

I really want to see is in League 1 and keep there, and I think sticking with Hurst is the most likely option that will lead to that in 3-5 years. Once we're there. Another 3 years and give it a crack at trying to get into the Championship. Progress in football is really slow, and most people don't seem to get that. Took Luton 4 years to get out of League 2. I fear for any knee jerk reaction and listening to fans, things going to pot, new managers blaming the fact they don't have their squad, languishing near the relegation spots again. I do not want to see the conference again, and that is why I am firmly in the Hurst in squad.

The other thing I don't like is this nonsense about players being broken because they had long-term injuries. Many just need time and faith to get some strength back in their legs and many of them have bags of talent that if fit would have been higher up. If you cannot afford top fit players, you buy in youngsters you can turn into them, or players who have talent that need someone to give them a chance to get back to fitness. It is a gamble, but can pay off. Someone commented Eisa only had 20 games over x seasons. Yeah, but he's had 8 for us now, and I don't see why he cannot continue that. His legs haven't shattered yet.

Quoted from kafunanapar140909

What I would say is that it feels like this year we’ve seen a bit of departure from the default – we’re more possession-based and generally play quite high up the pitch. I assume this has been a conscious decision by the management on our style of play (maybe even in response to last season). You can’t expect to implement a new style and have us playing a flawless passing game combined with thousands of goals from the get-go.

This is a really good point.  It's not easy to accept but we're probably a team in transition.  The lack of patience in me probably struggles with that more than it should.  Very happy if we're developing a style and a philosophy to our play that will serve us for a sustained period of time.

Any talk of Hurst out or relegation battles at this stage of the season is ridiculous, regardless of how disappointing the last few games were.

When building a team you build from the back. For the first time in a while we have players on 3 year contracts so unless we get promoted next summer becomes an easier window with less players needed.
And let's not forget a left back we wanted went to league 1, a striker or 2 we wanted went to league 1, so it shows the quality we're trying to bring in.
We have improved, we have a better squad than last year and I believe we will keep improving bit by bit.
Keep the faith
UTM

[quote=141016]When building a team you build from the back. For the first time in a while we have players on 3 year contracts so unless we get promoted next summer becomes an easier window with less players needed.
And let's not forget a left back we wanted went to league 1, a striker or 2 we wanted went to league 1, so it shows the quality we're trying to bring in.
We have improved, we have a better squad than last year and I believe we will keep improving bit by bit.
Keep the faith
UTM[/quote
Indeed  keep the faith!!!
If PH goes what Muppet could come in take over,and we have had some.
UTM

I don’t think we have too much below par; the glaring one for me being in both full back positions, although there’s not too much wrong with Amos. This and lacking another effective wide player doing the business. Rose and Eisa are excellent, our centre backs are good and our central midfielders are equally convincing.
Everything else is coachable/fixable with tactical/selection changes and signings. It’s not as if we are half a team way short. We should persevere and stick together.

Quoted from Marinerdan

It feels like teams are always in great form when we play them. We've only played 9 games and we've managed to play 5 of the top 7, with number 6 coming next week!

The way are playing all our opponents will be above us.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Again something to bear in mind Hurst is one of two Manager's to take us out the football league

If he’d had the full season and a chairman who didn’t sanction his predecessor signing amateur strikers from the welsh league, he’d have kept us up.

This thread needs merging with the All who think Hurst should go thread