When Alan Buckley was sacked in 2000 he was 49. Hurst is 48. Town had a miracle season 2 years before in 1998. Our miracle season was 2 seasons ago in 2021/22. Alan Buckley originally came from non-league, as did Hurst - for their first spells. Alan Buckley was in his second spell when he was sacked, so is Hurst. Both went off to "bigger" clubs and came back having failed. Both got promotions early in their second spells. Both managers were generally well-liked with a vocal faction that disliked them.
Of course, sacking Buckley was followed by a spiral downwards into instability, which has arguably only been turned around by Hurst.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Some fairly material differences, too. Buckley was sacked after two games (one of which we drew away at Portsmouth), by a new board who wanted their own man in. He was clearly intentionally stifled in the transfer market, too, having only been able to bring in Paul Raven and Mike Jeffrey. Shortly afterwards of course we were spunking money left, right and centre on Lennie’s foreign legion.
The prevailing circumstances for Hurst this summer were about as stable and as favourable as a lower league manager could reasonably ask for. A positive relationship with good owners, the almost unanimous backing of the fans, a relatively settled squad to build upon and a budget buoyed by last season’s cup run (which he of course deserves massive credit for).
Hurst had a lot going for him in the window just gone. If it transpires that he’s made a hash of it, and there’s still time for things to turn around yet, then he’ll only really have himself to blame. Buckley on the other hand could, and I’m sure did, rightly feel unlucky to have lost his job when he did.
Some fairly material differences, too. Buckley was sacked after two games (one of which we drew away at Portsmouth), by a new board who wanted their own man in. He was clearly intentionally stifled in the transfer market, too, having only been able to bring in Paul Raven and Mike Jeffrey. Shortly afterwards of course we were spunking money left, right and centre on Lennie’s foreign legion.
The prevailing circumstances for Hurst this summer were about as stable and as favourable as a lower league manager could reasonably ask for. A positive relationship with good owners, the almost unanimous backing of the fans, a relatively settled squad to build upon and a budget buoyed by last season’s cup run (which he of course deserves massive credit for).
Hurst had a lot going for him in the window just gone. If it transpires that he’s made a hash of it, and there’s still time for things to turn around yet, then he’ll only really have himself to blame. Buckley on the other hand could, and I’m sure did, rightly feel unlucky to have lost his job when he did.
Any manager should have been fired for signing Mike Jeffrey.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
AB with his own hard work managed Town hundreds of times in the Championship and twice got us promoted to that League. Sadly Hurst is never likely to do that 😕
Any manager should have been fired for signing Mike Jeffrey.
I’m certainly not going to defend Jeffrey’s performances in a Town shirt - he didn’t even look like a footballer. What’s bizarre though, and gets totally forgotten, is that prior to joining us he had close to a 1 in 3 record in the Dutch top flight. Here he is helping his team to a 3-1 win against a PSV team that featured the likes of Ruud van Nistelrooy, Mark van Bommel and Luc Nilis (perhaps best remembered for wrapping his tibia around Richard Wright).
Fúck knows what he got up to during that year in Scotland before he joined us.
I’m certainly not going to defend Jeffrey’s performances in a Town shirt - he didn’t even look like a footballer. What’s bizarre though, and gets totally forgotten, is that prior to joining us he had close to a 1 in 3 record in the Dutch top flight. Here he is helping his team to a 3-1 win against a PSV team that featured the likes of Ruud van Nistelrooy, Mark van Bommel and Luc Nilis (perhaps best remembered for wrapping his tibia around Richard Wright).
Fúck knows what he got up to during that year in Scotland before he joined us.
You hit the nail on the head with 'he didn't even look like a footballer'. He just didn't.
I recall him being signed with quite a bit of fanfare and he was absolutely sh*te. He looked lost on the pitch.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Talking 35 years since AB got going here in his first spell, the game has changed beyond belief in that time.
As amazing as that achievement was in his first spell and as ridiculously good as that football was, there's not a chance in hell anyone would be able to achieve that now.
Garry Birtles signed for us in 1989. 9 years after winning back-to-back European Cups with Forest, for a side that finished 9th in the fourth tier the previous season. The modern equivalent of that is us (having finished a point off 9th last season) signing Karim Benzema this summer.
Gary Childs had played nearly 200 games at a higher level, including a Milk Cup final. Tony Rees 150 games and a single full Welsh cap. Steve Sherwood over 300 games at much higher levels, including an FA Cup Final. Don't get me wrong, Buckley worked his magic in finding rough diamonds like Andy Tilson and John Cockerill, plus utilising what he already had in the building (Shaun Cunnington, Kev Jobling...) and those coming through the ranks (Macca, Mark Lever), but you can't build a team now like you did then. Buckley found this in his third spell and he found he couldn't adapt.
Buckley had a big advantage over Hurst because during his time here Grimsby was a bustling Town that was commutable from pretty much every Town, City & Village in the country, therefore made our ability to compete in the Championship much easier.
Unfortunately when Hurst came in we relocated to middle earth & understandably struggled to attract any right minded individual to even step within 100 miles of the training ground.
Always been a Buckley fan, and admittedly he more then likely had better footballers then todays squad, but he played a game that in some ways was an earlier version of Man City today, keep ball style even if it meant passing along the back four a few times. You would think that as football has progressed that any professional player could trap,pass and move ready to receive it but it still seems to me that division 4 football is still stuck in the 70’s, 80’s etc, just look at the fare that Wrexham deliver.
Loads of differences , comparisons are difficult. Buckley's first spell, he was literally the first non league manager to take the best of the conference into the league. Practically all were part time footballers and to assemble that squad today would cost in excessive of 2 million. It wouldn't be possible for Grimsby Town to do that anymore. Second spell was different, always felt that Arthur Mann was Buckley's Peter Taylor to Cloughie but again what Buckley had done couldn't be replicated again so he was a success of time/place and what he could dip into. It was an amazing time that I'm pleased I was there for but don't think I'll see again. For those witness to it.The lyrics from James spring to mind. If I hadn't seen such riches , I could live with being poor
You could say the same about signing Stefan Payne.
There is a long list of miscreants who should never have put on a Town shirt, regardless of the manager.
'Spike' Stephenson who appeared to have only the most basic understanding of his position, what was required and indeed football as a game. A player who was the dictionary definition of out of his depth.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Location: freezing my bollocks off on Gatwick runway
Approval:+618
Gold Stars: 18
Irrespective of budgets and different era's of football Buckley more often than not got the best out of the players he signed. Unlike Hurst, whether that’s because he buys players that doesn’t fit in to his style of play or just motivational skills, who knows….
Not a big fan of Hurst, a bit one dimensional and negative for me but in my opinion Buckley has been THE best manager we have ever had so a bit unfair to compare
Are we any closer to getting promoted since Hurst has been here? No
Has he been given time to achieve promotion by the chairman and fans? Yes
Buckley had a big advantage over Hurst because during his time here Grimsby was a bustling Town that was commutable from pretty much every Town, City & Village in the country, therefore made our ability to compete in the Championship much easier.
Unfortunately when Hurst came in we relocated to middle earth & understandably struggled to attract any right minded individual to even step within 100 miles of the training ground.
Buckley knew what he wanted from his players......the players knew what was expected of them..... 4-4-2 ...no changes....no swapping....no tweaks.....4 -4 fking 2. Two wingers to cross the ball, two midfielders to get the ball to the wingers...four defenders to stop the opposition.... Never worried about the opposition set up....no square pegs.
2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWLLDWLWLW 2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW 2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳 2020/21 LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend 2019/20 WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended 2018/19 LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny
Buckley had a big advantage over Hurst because during his time here Grimsby was a bustling Town that was commutable from pretty much every Town, City & Village in the country, therefore made our ability to compete in the Championship much easier.
Unfortunately when Hurst came in we relocated to middle earth & understandably struggled to attract any right minded individual to even step within 100 miles of the training ground.
I know I left Grimsby many years a go but I didn’t know the European tectonic plate shifted resulting in Grimsby and surrounding area now being off the coast of Norway
Are we any closer to getting promoted since Hurst has been here? No
Has he been given time to achieve promotion by the chairman and fans? Yes
Buckley had the massive luxury of pre-Bosman where he could hang on to players when their contract expired - or cash in. Bosman is the single biggest difference between then and now and probably why the Championship is a near impossibility for us.
Back then we used to make a few signings every season (sometimes just a couple of players), and every couple of years sell someone for a huge fee. Now it's half the team and anyone good like McAtee you'll never extend his contract. There's no way we would have kept Groves, Mendonca et al. as long as we did.
PH has given quite a few players longish deals, which is a gamble. Back then you could just keep re-signing them if you wanted.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Buckley had a big advantage over Hurst because during his time here Grimsby was a bustling Town that was commutable from pretty much every Town, City & Village in the country, therefore made our ability to compete in the Championship much easier.
Unfortunately when Hurst came in we relocated to middle earth & understandably struggled to attract any right minded individual to even step within 100 miles of the training ground.
I've never lived in Grimsby but know this is nonsense
Buckley had a big advantage over Hurst because during his time here Grimsby was a bustling Town that was commutable from pretty much every Town, City & Village in the country, therefore made our ability to compete in the Championship much easier.
Unfortunately when Hurst came in we relocated to middle earth & understandably struggled to attract any right minded individual to even step within 100 miles of the training ground.
Pontoonlew was being sarcastic.
In the 1990s, GTFC was considered second-tier, which helped to attract quality players to our outpost. Since then, the likes of Hull, Reading, Swansea and Brentford have built smart new stadia.
When Alan Buckley was sacked in 2000 he was 49. Hurst is 48. Town had a miracle season 2 years before in 1998. Our miracle season was 2 seasons ago in 2021/22. Alan Buckley originally came from non-league, as did Hurst - for their first spells. Alan Buckley was in his second spell when he was sacked, so is Hurst. Both went off to "bigger" clubs and came back having failed. Both got promotions early in their second spells. Both managers were generally well-liked with a vocal faction that disliked them.
Of course, sacking Buckley was followed by a spiral downwards into instability, which has arguably only been turned around by Hurst.
I assume this is a plea for Jason and Andrew to have patience and not sack Paul. As I said in a previous thread, we need three wins minimum next month.
As amazing as AB's achievement was in his first spell and as ridiculously good as that football was, there's not a chance in hell anyone would be able to achieve that now.
Garry Birtles signed for us in 1989. 9 years after winning back-to-back European Cups with Forest, for a side that finished 9th in the fourth tier the previous season. The modern equivalent of that is us (having finished a point off 9th last season) signing Karim Benzema this summer.
Not if we stay at Blundell Park, no. If we move to a new 20k stadium, then maybe.
It's a pity Premier League players make so much money now from Sky subscribers that they can retire at the top and not turn out in the lower divisions.
Not a big fan of Hurst, a bit one dimensional and negative for me but in my opinion Buckley has been THE best manager we have ever had so a bit unfair to compare
Let's not forget Frank Womack. He guided the club to fifth in the top flight in 1935 and an FA Cup semi-final in 1936.
When Alan Buckley was sacked in 2000 he was 49. Hurst is 48. Town had a miracle season 2 years before in 1998. Our miracle season was 2 seasons ago in 2021/22. Alan Buckley originally came from non-league, as did Hurst - for their first spells. Alan Buckley was in his second spell when he was sacked, so is Hurst. Both went off to "bigger" clubs and came back having failed. Both got promotions early in their second spells. Both managers were generally well-liked with a vocal faction that disliked them.
Of course, sacking Buckley was followed by a spiral downwards into instability, which has arguably only been turned around by Hurst.
How exactly was 1997/98 a miracle season? AB spent (very wisely) over £1 million before and during that season on Donovan, Groves, Nogan, Smith & Burnett. After that you would fully expect us to have a very successful season. What did our rivals spend that season? Apart from Fulham not very much.
And I don’t see how finishing 6th in the National League was a miracle in 2021/22. If anything I would say that final league position was a slight underachievement.
Like any employee AB had objectives and targets in 2000 which he failed to achieve and was sacked.
The same will happen at some point to Hurst whether that be this season or x seasons down the line. I can’t see anyone ever coming in for him, so inevitably his spell here will end with him being sacked.
In the 1990s, GTFC was considered second-tier, which helped to attract quality players to our outpost. Since then, the likes of Hull, Reading, Swansea and Brentford have built smart new stadia.
Feel sad for the younger generation who didn't get to see the 90's teams , I was thinking about it earlier (I'm not sure Buckley was even manager all of the time , Laws for some of the games) .
But we were not just holding our own ,but schooling teams , really schooling them - the West Ham ,Luton and Leicester at home stick out in my mind from the cup - just blew them away ; even Villa & Chelsea we more than held our own against and could have beaten .
Games under the lights especially were special ,and there was something in the air at a packed out Blundell Park .
In the league we dominated teams at home most weeks really , away not so much .
I don't think we will ever see those days again but looking back it really was something ,that at the time we didn't quite realise how great it actually was for a decent stretch .
When Alan Buckley was sacked in 2000 he was 49. Hurst is 48. Town had a miracle season 2 years before in 1998. Our miracle season was 2 seasons ago in 2021/22. Alan Buckley originally came from non-league, as did Hurst - for their first spells. Alan Buckley was in his second spell when he was sacked, so is Hurst. Both went off to "bigger" clubs and came back having failed. Both got promotions early in their second spells. Both managers were generally well-liked with a vocal faction that disliked them.
Of course, sacking Buckley was followed by a spiral downwards into instability, which has arguably only been turned around by Hurst.
You forgot that under Alan Buckley we were never relegated but under PH we were.
Buckley never took over a side midway through a season needing to rebuild a toxic squad on a shoestring though did he?
Hurst made mistakes that season, no doubt about it. But it was largely a poisoned chalice. Hurst, Buckley, even Pep wouldn't have kept us up that season.
Hurst made mistakes that season, no doubt about it. But it was largely a poisoned chalice. Hurst, Buckley, even Pep wouldn't have kept us up that season.
There’s no doubt that Holloway and the then board made a needless hash of the summer of 2020, as well as the weeks that followed, but I always struggle to get my head around the idea we were a lost cause when Hurst took over. We were a mess, but a salvageable one.
In Holloway’s final 10 games he took 10 points (the same record we’ll have this season if we lose on Saturday). In his previous 9 games that season he’d taken 9 points, so averaging a steady point per game, and had us six points clear of the relegation zone. This isn’t a defence of Holloway by the way, I hate that cúnt almost as palpably as I love Paul Hurst. We were terrible. But there were several teams even more terrible than us, hence we we had never been in the bottom two at this juncture.
In Hurst’s first 10 games, we took just 4 points (0.4 PPG). In his next 10, that increased to 13 points (1.3 PPG), our best spell of the season in which we only lost 1 game. But it was too late; those first 10 games and too many draws in the next 10 killed us. As we beat Bolton at home at the end of that run, we still found ourselves 7 points and a massive goal difference swing from safety. We won 2 and lost 3 of our last 5, the final of which we were already down.
There’s no doubt that Hurst came in and tried to do the right things, to bring in better players and better characters. And to a large extent, he did (Stefan Payne the obvious exception). But he simply didn’t have the time or the points cushion to complete the kind of transformation he attempted, and what happened is history.
In a parallel universe he brings in fewer players and sticks more with what he had, and we stay up. But then we wouldn’t have had those memories…
There’s no doubt that Holloway and the then board made a needless hash of the summer of 2020, as well as the weeks that followed, but I always struggle to get my head around the idea we were a lost cause when Hurst took over. We were a mess, but a salvageable one.
In Holloway’s final 10 games he took 10 points (the same record we’ll have this season if we lose on Saturday). In his previous 9 games that season he’d taken 9 points, so averaging a steady point per game, and had us six points clear of the relegation zone. This isn’t a defence of Holloway by the way, I hate that cúnt almost as palpably as I love Paul Hurst. We were terrible. But there were several teams even more terrible than us, hence we we had never been in the bottom two at this juncture.
In Hurst’s first 10 games, we took just 4 points (0.4 PPG). In his next 10, that increased to 13 points (1.3 PPG), our best spell of the season in which we only lost 1 game. But it was too late; those first 10 games and too many draws in the next 10 killed us. As we beat Bolton at home at the end of that run, we still found ourselves 7 points and a massive goal difference swing from safety. We won 2 and lost 3 of our last 5, the final of which we were already down.
There’s no doubt that Hurst came in and tried to do the right things, to bring in better players and better characters. And to a large extent, he did (Stefan Payne the obvious exception). But he simply didn’t have the time or the points cushion to complete the kind of transformation he attempted, and what happened is history.
In a parallel universe he brings in fewer players and sticks more with what he had, and we stay up. But then we wouldn’t have had those memories…
You are right about Holloway overall but we made a reasonable start to Holloway's second season and had points in the bank, we then hit a wall and started to go backwards. We fell down the league quite alarmingly. So your stats are correct (probably, I haven't checked) but they mask what was happening on the pitch. The poor run under Holloway seemed to coincide with the news that his mate (I think) had committed suicide and I always suspect that that had a far greater effect on Holloway than he let on.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
There’s no doubt that Holloway and the then board made a needless hash of the summer of 2020, as well as the weeks that followed, but I always struggle to get my head around the idea we were a lost cause when Hurst took over. We were a mess, but a salvageable one.
In Holloway’s final 10 games he took 10 points (the same record we’ll have this season if we lose on Saturday). In his previous 9 games that season he’d taken 9 points, so averaging a steady point per game, and had us six points clear of the relegation zone. This isn’t a defence of Holloway by the way, I hate that cúnt almost as palpably as I love Paul Hurst. We were terrible. But there were several teams even more terrible than us, hence we we had never been in the bottom two at this juncture.
In Hurst’s first 10 games, we took just 4 points (0.4 PPG). In his next 10, that increased to 13 points (1.3 PPG), our best spell of the season in which we only lost 1 game. But it was too late; those first 10 games and too many draws in the next 10 killed us. As we beat Bolton at home at the end of that run, we still found ourselves 7 points and a massive goal difference swing from safety. We won 2 and lost 3 of our last 5, the final of which we were already down.
There’s no doubt that Hurst came in and tried to do the right things, to bring in better players and better characters. And to a large extent, he did (Stefan Payne the obvious exception). But he simply didn’t have the time or the points cushion to complete the kind of transformation he attempted, and what happened is history.
In a parallel universe he brings in fewer players and sticks more with what he had, and we stay up. But then we wouldn’t have had those memories…
It's very difficult to argue against the points picked up under Holloway and then those that Hurst didn't get, especially first of all.
But the only way I can try and describe it is that Holloway was in a moving car with his foot on the pedal that's motoring along ok, but ahead of it the road is about to end with a sheer cliff drop into the sea coming up. As Holloway jumps out the car, Hurst jumps in with his first task of trying to perform an almighty doughnut turn to keep us out the sea and also moving along the road at the same time.
Of course that turn is even harder because Holloway's crap is still in the car and it's impacting on the weight distribution of what Hurst is trying to achieve.
I don't think it's as simple a case that had we continued to do the same we would have continued with picking up a point a game and stayed safe. The rot had set in and Holloway, the flipping charlatan that he was/is, got out at the right time. Points are points, regardless of when you pick them up. But his final seven games saw us win 1, draw 1 and lose 5. That win came against a Scunthorpe side that were only saved from relegation by the fact that we ran out of time.
Holloway's last game in charge was the 2-1 home defeat to Bradford. We went into that game with Montel Gibson and Ira Jackson Jr up top, Elliott Bennett on the wing, Luke Spokes in midfield and Danny Preston at left-back. It was only a few games previous that Holloway had dropped his first choice 'keeper for the goalkeeping coach, who then let a pea-roller through his legs away at Southend.
Buckley never took over a side midway through a season needing to rebuild a toxic squad on a shoestring though did he?
Hurst made mistakes that season, no doubt about it. But it was largely a poisoned chalice. Hurst, Buckley, even Pep wouldn't have kept us up that season.
His 3rd spell he took over mid season and with a very young squad got us to safety and a Wembley appearance vs Franchise scum.
It's very difficult to argue against the points picked up under Holloway and then those that Hurst didn't get, especially first of all.
But the only way I can try and describe it is that Holloway was in a moving car with his foot on the pedal that's motoring along ok, but ahead of it the road is about to end with a sheer cliff drop into the sea coming up. As Holloway jumps out the car, Hurst jumps in with his first task of trying to perform an almighty doughnut turn to keep us out the sea and also moving along the road at the same time.
Of course that turn is even harder because Holloway's crap is still in the car and it's impacting on the weight distribution of what Hurst is trying to achieve.
I don't think it's as simple a case that had we continued to do the same we would have continued with picking up a point a game and stayed safe. The rot had set in and Holloway, the flipping charlatan that he was/is, got out at the right time. Points are points, regardless of when you pick them up. But his final seven games saw us win 1, draw 1 and lose 5. That win came against a Scunthorpe side that were only saved from relegation by the fact that we ran out of time.
Holloway's last game in charge was the 2-1 home defeat to Bradford. We went into that game with Montel Gibson and Ira Jackson Jr up top, Elliott Bennett on the wing, Luke Spokes in midfield and Danny Preston at left-back. It was only a few games previous that Holloway had dropped his first choice 'keeper for the goalkeeping coach, who then let a pea-roller through his legs away at Southend.
That's certainly a creative analogy, I'll give you that!
And I'll also concede that PPG etc. is a blunt instrument that forgets the context of the time or incidents within games, or even performances (which did incidentally seem better under Hurst during his initial barren run, despite the poor points return). I just feel, and perhaps I'm speaking too much from a position of hindsight, the absolution of Hurst for his share of that season is slightly unmerited.
There’s no doubt that Holloway and the then board made a needless hash of the summer of 2020, as well as the weeks that followed, but I always struggle to get my head around the idea we were a lost cause when Hurst took over. We were a mess, but a salvageable one.
In Holloway’s final 10 games he took 10 points (the same record we’ll have this season if we lose on Saturday). In his previous 9 games that season he’d taken 9 points, so averaging a steady point per game, and had us six points clear of the relegation zone. This isn’t a defence of Holloway by the way, I hate that cúnt almost as palpably as I love Paul Hurst. We were terrible. But there were several teams even more terrible than us, hence we we had never been in the bottom two at this juncture.
In Hurst’s first 10 games, we took just 4 points (0.4 PPG). In his next 10, that increased to 13 points (1.3 PPG), our best spell of the season in which we only lost 1 game. But it was too late; those first 10 games and too many draws in the next 10 killed us. As we beat Bolton at home at the end of that run, we still found ourselves 7 points and a massive goal difference swing from safety. We won 2 and lost 3 of our last 5, the final of which we were already down.
There’s no doubt that Hurst came in and tried to do the right things, to bring in better players and better characters. And to a large extent, he did (Stefan Payne the obvious exception). But he simply didn’t have the time or the points cushion to complete the kind of transformation he attempted, and what happened is history.
In a parallel universe he brings in fewer players and sticks more with what he had, and we stay up. But then we wouldn’t have had those memories…
When PH was reappointed can't say I was thrilled BUT like most I thought safe pair of hands and he will keep us up.When we got relegated I'd have sacked him and that would with hindsight have been the wrong decision. I would have sacked him again in the NLwgen he had that poor run again my judgement probably wrong. Deadly John sacked no end of Manager's and usually it only resulted in further misery. However all that being said doesn't mean we should just stick with a manager if things aren't right.PH is baffling many of us with his inability to sign a striker/goal scorer when we have needed one for 18 months?My biggest concern is this time of year PH normally has a real bad run and I see nothing to suggest this Season will be different?
His 3rd spell he took over mid season and with a very young squad got us to safety and a Wembley appearance vs Franchise scum.
He had good six weeks extra and six games (appointed early November). Whilst there was a youthful element of the squad with the likes of Bore, North, Hegarty and Taylor coming through he also had a very good experienced core to the squad. Whittle, Bolland, Toner, Croft, Macca and Gary Jones all key players from the 2006 season under Slade.
The loss of the likes of Mildenhall, Rob Jones and others in the summer was a blow, as were the injuries to Reddy and Cohen but he still inherited a good squad with a decent top-up coming through the youth set-up. To my memory there wasn't any bad eggs in that group either. Certainly can't imagine he arrived at Cheapside find the balls were square and a non-contract defender was doing shuttle runs in front of The Pier. That he only signed 3 players initially on loan (Paterson, Till and Pulis) suggests it didn't need the critical surgery that Hurst was left with.
I think Wembley was the season after too.
Don't get me wrong, Buckley did a good job in turning the tide that season because, unfortunately, he inherited a bit of a mess from Graham Rodger who was completely out of his depth. But there's a bit of a mess and then there's an absolute excrement show.
I just feel, and perhaps I'm speaking too much from a position of hindsight, the absolution of Hurst for his share of that season is slightly unmerited.
Oh, I'm with you. 100%.
Bringing Waterfall on away at Carlisle was the Parslow moment that really cost us. It invited pressure, needlessly and let them back into the game. It denied us a much needed win and momentum. Had we got that win I fancied it would have taken us into the home game with Colchester, a side we needed to drag into the mixer, with confidence. Instead we were lower than a snakes belly and ground out a 0-0. Was too many draws in that time full stop.
Being too cautious in the first few months, Harrogate away a particular lo-light of just offering absolutely nothing going forward.
The reluctance to use George Williams, especially after his performance away at Mansfield when he looked ready to take things by the scruff of the neck.
Bringing Waterfall on away at Carlisle was the Parslow moment that really cost us. It invited pressure, needlessly and let them back into the game. It denied us a much needed win and momentum. Had we got that win I fancied it would have taken us into the home game with Colchester, a side we needed to drag into the mixer, with confidence. Instead we were lower than a snakes belly and ground out a 0-0. Was too many draws in that time full stop.
Being too cautious in the first few months, Harrogate away a particular lo-light of just offering absolutely nothing going forward.
The reluctance to use George Williams, especially after his performance away at Mansfield when he looked ready to take things by the scruff of the neck.
So I'm not with you and want to put the counter argument, respectfully and for the debate...
I recall the phrase 'death slide' being used about the team toward the end of Holloway's time. We had gone from being OK to being awful and it was difficult to see where the change was going to come. He had signed a pile of players that just weren't up to it, the first team almost picked itself because there was no depth in the squad and that 1st team was poor. Although not directly related to the on pitch performance we then had the chaos of Fenty, May and Holloway leaving etc etc etc - Holloway said he was staying but was gone within 3 weeks or so. That cannot have helped the players in terms of their preparation to play. Hurst walked into this chaos and had to sign a lot of players in January and turn them into a side good enough to stay up, when all of us could see we were dead and buried if no changes were made. Some of his signings worked (Matete) and some didn't. We struggled at first but got gradually better as time went on and I genuinely think that we would have stayed up if we'd have 5 more games (but we didn't). Not only did we get better results but we were better to watch. You are right that some individual results were disappointing but you could see an improving trajectory overall. He had to fix a lot in that short period and almost got it right. Almost.
My personal view after relegation was that he should be given the chance to stay and show that he could get us going in the right direction and he did that with bells on as the club turned around from 20 years of Fenty shafting it.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
My recollection is once PH joined we had a January where we played a number of relegation rivals Scunny, Southend and Stevenage and I think got just one point from a draw with Southend and if those fixtures had come later in Hurst’s return things might have been different.
Not sure re the comparison with AB certainly AB’s first two spells where the style of football was much more enjoyable and easier on the eye. That said I recall many a shout from the crowd telling them to stop f….ing passing it so much and just bloody shoot will you!!
Been some tough fans to please over the years us Codheads
He had good six weeks extra and six games (appointed early November). Whilst there was a youthful element of the squad with the likes of Bore, North, Hegarty and Taylor coming through he also had a very good experienced core to the squad. Whittle, Bolland, Toner, Croft, Macca and Gary Jones all key players from the 2006 season under Slade.
The loss of the likes of Mildenhall, Rob Jones and others in the summer was a blow, as were the injuries to Reddy and Cohen but he still inherited a good squad with a decent top-up coming through the youth set-up. To my memory there wasn't any bad eggs in that group either. Certainly can't imagine he arrived at Cheapside find the balls were square and a non-contract defender was doing shuttle runs in front of The Pier. That he only signed 3 players initially on loan (Paterson, Till and Pulis) suggests it didn't need the critical surgery that Hurst was left with.
I think Wembley was the season after too.
Don't get me wrong, Buckley did a good job in turning the tide that season because, unfortunately, he inherited a bit of a mess from Graham Rodger who was completely out of his depth. But there's a bit of a mess and then there's an absolute excrement show.
A bit late reading the thread and as I was reading through it I thought of the year Buckley came in for his 3rd stint. What I'd add to the comparison of that season when AB took over, and PH taking over before taking us down, is that Buckley took what was a bang-average team and went on a run of 7 wins in 8 games kickstarted by the 6-0 win at Boston. Granted that was after a run of successive defeats (and non-scoring games until the consolation at Torquay), but without looking I don't think Hurst has ever taken us on a run of 7 wins from 8. Even when we were a big fish in the conference.
I'd also add that although the team Holloway left us with wasn't great, I seem to recall almost all of the players PH brought in were worse than what Holloway brought in, with Hurst even reverting back to using the Holloway players over the ones he brought in. My recollection of that season is that Hurst made us significantly worse for a couple of months before we started looking like a football team.
One last comparison I'll make between PH and AB -
We know PH places great emphasis on the work ethic and character of players, and whether it's intentional or not it's clear to most of us watching that the creativity often suffers in that balance. However, AB was as strict with discipline as they come, did not accept people not working hard or not doing their job with the ball on the pitch (Jack Lester was told as a youngster breaking into the first team that if he didnt learn how to hold the ball up he'd be out the door). Yet we saw some fantastic, free flowing, creative attacking football against teams with far bigger budgets than ourselves, on a regular basis.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
A bit late reading the thread and as I was reading through it I thought of the year Buckley came in for his 3rd stint. What I'd add to the comparison of that season when AB took over, and PH taking over before taking us down, is that Buckley took what was a bang-average team and went on a run of 7 wins in 8 games kickstarted by the 6-0 win at Boston.
Not quite 7 from 8, but we won 10 and drew 2 of our opening 13 games of the 21/22 season (before things famously went for a massive shít until the nights started to pull out again). It was a very un-Hursty start to the season, mind.
Not quite 7 from 8, but we won 10 and drew 2 of our opening 13 games of the 21/22 season (before things famously went for a massive shít until the nights started to pull out again). It was a very un-Hursty start to the season, mind.
You forget how crazy that season was don't you. The focus is often on the unbelievable sequence of events in the play offs. But what an odd season, with how you say we started the season in the first 13 games, flying. Then 2 or 3 months of being seemingly allergic to winning a game of football. And then a couple of statement wins kickstarting a bit of a revival and finishing the season with respectable but not outstanding form to get into one of the lowest play off positions.
An outsider looking at our results that season would be forgiven for thinking we had 3 different managers that season, such was the clear contrast in each third of the season. Which again, is very un-Hurst like, as he's generally a consistent sort of manager.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
You forget how crazy that season was don't you. The focus is often on the unbelievable sequence of events in the play offs. But what an odd season, with how you say we started the season in the first 13 games, flying. Then 2 or 3 months of being seemingly allergic to winning a game of football. And then a couple of statement wins kickstarting a bit of a revival and finishing the season with respectable but not outstanding form to get into one of the lowest play off positions.
An outsider looking at our results that season would be forgiven for thinking we had 3 different managers that season, such was the clear contrast in each third of the season. Which again, is very un-Hurst like, as he's generally a consistent sort of manager.
Not sure about the last bit. It's often very up or very down.
He goes through so many different players every season and often a lot of formations so I think consistency is often lacking.
Not sure about the last bit. It's often very up or very down.
He goes through so many different players every season and often a lot of formations so I think consistency is often lacking.
The down patch in the conference co-coincided with losing McAtee. We were very much a 1 player team at that time.
If we are losing, do you expect him not to change things and just sit there hoping for the best? Do you expect him to hold players to account who are out of form and give another player a shot or not? Hurst will often stick with players if they're performing.
There is this weird trend of trying to simplify football to catch phrases. It just ain't that simple.
You forget how crazy that season was don't you. The focus is often on the unbelievable sequence of events in the play offs. But what an odd season, with how you say we started the season in the first 13 games, flying. Then 2 or 3 months of being seemingly allergic to winning a game of football. And then a couple of statement wins kickstarting a bit of a revival and finishing the season with respectable but not outstanding form to get into one of the lowest play off positions.
An outsider looking at our results that season would be forgiven for thinking we had 3 different managers that season, such was the clear contrast in each third of the season. Which again, is very un-Hurst like, as he's generally a consistent sort of manager.
We did have a great start , but it was a terrible mid season , then a return to type with a mixture of results at the back end - from memory I had the same feeling as now of 'we are not going anywhere fast ' after the games against Solihull,Weymouth ,Kings Lynn and Maidenhead. But we got over the line and as they say 'the rest is history ' .
The down patch in the conference co-coincided with losing McAtee. We were very much a 1 player team at that time.
If we are losing, do you expect him not to change things and just sit there hoping for the best? Do you expect him to hold players to account who are out of form and give another player a shot or not? Hurst will often stick with players if they're performing.
There is this weird trend of trying to simplify football to catch phrases. It just ain't that simple.
What catch phrase have I used? It's just an opinion which you obviously don't like.
I was actually referring to the amount of players he signs.
So I'm not with you and want to put the counter argument, respectfully and for the debate...
I recall the phrase 'death slide' being used about the team toward the end of Holloway's time. We had gone from being OK to being awful and it was difficult to see where the change was going to come. He had signed a pile of players that just weren't up to it, the first team almost picked itself because there was no depth in the squad and that 1st team was poor. Although not directly related to the on pitch performance we then had the chaos of Fenty, May and Holloway leaving etc etc etc - Holloway said he was staying but was gone within 3 weeks or so. That cannot have helped the players in terms of their preparation to play. Hurst walked into this chaos and had to sign a lot of players in January and turn them into a side good enough to stay up, when all of us could see we were dead and buried if no changes were made. Some of his signings worked (Matete) and some didn't. We struggled at first but got gradually better as time went on and I genuinely think that we would have stayed up if we'd have 5 more games (but we didn't). Not only did we get better results but we were better to watch. You are right that some individual results were disappointing but you could see an improving trajectory overall. He had to fix a lot in that short period and almost got it right. Almost.
My personal view after relegation was that he should be given the chance to stay and show that he could get us going in the right direction and he did that with bells on as the club turned around from 20 years of Fenty shafting it.
I was just adding to Poojah's point that Hurst did get some things wrong. Despite the 'errors' listed above, I thought Hurst had a bloody good go at turning that toxic ship around. Death slide is a very good analogy for what he walked into. I completely agree on that we were better to watch too. Watching in iFollow was bloody hard, but the performances later in the season were really good. Bolton and Salford stand out as ones, not in terms of pure football but just that everyone seemed to be in together and fighting for every blade of grass.
It just took too long to get going. At the time and even now I can see that Hurst was trying to build from the back and as we got less leaky, we gained a bit more confidence to for it. Maybe he left his finger tickling the trigger a bit too long, maybe not. But with a few more games left in the season, I fancy we would have got out of it. Alas, we'll never know.
I'd also add that although the team Holloway left us with wasn't great, I seem to recall almost all of the players PH brought in were worse than what Holloway brought in, with Hurst even reverting back to using the Holloway players over the ones he brought in. My recollection of that season is that Hurst made us significantly worse for a couple of months before we started looking like a football team.
Interesting points. We definitely got worse through January and into February, but I still think that was as much about the rot setting in than because of Hurst. It felt to me like Hurst had no choice but to rebuild that squad, to the point that it was going to go down regardless. What Hurst did was take a six-week hit with the view to having a go at it in the final stages of the season. Ultimately it didn't work.
Definitely disagree on the quality of players bit. My memory might be playing tricks on me but the only Holloway signing I can recall Hurst using for the final few games was Spokes. Of course, some that Hurst signed weren't great. Habergham, Bunney, Payne definitely stand out as those that weren't successes. But then they did replace the likes of Preston and Gibson. Menayese, Matete, Coke, Eastwood and LJL were all improvements. The other point is that Hurst was still having to shop in the bargain basement for players. Habergham and Lamy came having not played for over a year. Coke and LJL came from Conference North Hereford. The limited budget he did was wasted on Payne. Hindsight is fantastic, but I'd be interested to know who else Hurst had in mind as his big ticket signing.
I was just adding to Poojah's point that Hurst did get some things wrong. Despite the 'errors' listed above, I thought Hurst had a bloody good go at turning that toxic ship around. Death slide is a very good analogy for what he walked into. I completely agree on that we were better to watch too. Watching in iFollow was bloody hard, but the performances later in the season were really good. Bolton and Salford stand out as ones, not in terms of pure football but just that everyone seemed to be in together and fighting for every blade of grass.
It just took too long to get going. At the time and even now I can see that Hurst was trying to build from the back and as we got less leaky, we gained a bit more confidence to for it. Maybe he left his finger tickling the trigger a bit too long, maybe not. But with a few more games left in the season, I fancy we would have got out of it. Alas, we'll never know.
I have got to admit through the Covid period I very rarely watched games - I just could not get into it without the crowds so my knowledge of that period is very small apart from results , us letting Vernam go because we thought a season would not be completed , the Alex May affair ,Steffan Payne nutting his teamate and our eventual takeover . Strange times .
I was just adding to Poojah's point that Hurst did get some things wrong. Despite the 'errors' listed above, I thought Hurst had a bloody good go at turning that toxic ship around. Death slide is a very good analogy for what he walked into. I completely agree on that we were better to watch too. Watching in iFollow was bloody hard, but the performances later in the season were really good. Bolton and Salford stand out as ones, not in terms of pure football but just that everyone seemed to be in together and fighting for every blade of grass.
It just took too long to get going. At the time and even now I can see that Hurst was trying to build from the back and as we got less leaky, we gained a bit more confidence to for it. Maybe he left his finger tickling the trigger a bit too long, maybe not. But with a few more games left in the season, I fancy we would have got out of it. Alas, we'll never know.
Yep, that was why I was keen to say that I wanted to put in the counter argument.
You are completely right about it taking too long but I suspect that was because of the quality of the squad and how long it took to find the right blend with all the new players. I'm not a slavish Hurst fan and he's far from perfect but I really do think he took on a poisoned chalice at that point.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
I'd also add that although the team Holloway left us with wasn't great, I seem to recall almost all of the players PH brought in were worse than what Holloway brought in, with Hurst even reverting back to using the Holloway players over the ones he brought in. My recollection of that season is that Hurst made us significantly worse for a couple of months before we started looking like a football team.
.
Hmm, I don't agree.
As I said earlier, the 1st team under Holloway had some reasonable players in it but not enough and they were very poor as a team. The squad was garbage and you couldn't replace the 1st choice players with the squad players. He brought in a couple of players from very low levels (one from the League of Wales - his name escapes me) who were miles away from being good enough to play in a L2 team. Hurst did use players who Holloway brought in and he did bring in some players who were mistakes but the players who made us look better later in the season were all brought in by Hurst. And almost all of Holloway's awful signings were gone very quickly in the following summer.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Just look at my signature No comparison Mr Buckley is a footballing God
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
He had good six weeks extra and six games (appointed early November). Whilst there was a youthful element of the squad with the likes of Bore, North, Hegarty and Taylor coming through he also had a very good experienced core to the squad. Whittle, Bolland, Toner, Croft, Macca and Gary Jones all key players from the 2006 season under Slade.
The loss of the likes of Mildenhall, Rob Jones and others in the summer was a blow, as were the injuries to Reddy and Cohen but he still inherited a good squad with a decent top-up coming through the youth set-up. To my memory there wasn't any bad eggs in that group either. Certainly can't imagine he arrived at Cheapside find the balls were square and a non-contract defender was doing shuttle runs in front of The Pier. That he only signed 3 players initially on loan (Paterson, Till and Pulis) suggests it didn't need the critical surgery that Hurst was left with.
I think Wembley was the season after too.
Don't get me wrong, Buckley did a good job in turning the tide that season because, unfortunately, he inherited a bit of a mess from Graham Rodger who was completely out of his depth. But there's a bit of a mess and then there's an absolute excrement show.
See the difference Buckley brought in Patterson, Till and Puis 3 quality additions and got the best out of the rest of gge existing squad. I also recall he played 4-5-1 a lot to get results especially away from home .
What catch phrase have I used? It's just an opinion which you obviously don't like.
I was actually referring to the amount of players he signs.
I was probably a bit harsh, but I've seen this tinkerman label thrown at him, and it was playing into that. I've also seen this comment he signs too much rubbish many times also.
I think the vast majority of players he signs improves on ones we had. Obviously there have been signings that haven't worked (gambles such as Grant, desperation loans last year for example), but on the whole, I think he's very purposeful in where he strengthens and improving things. There were many tactical signings at first when he joined us, and with the quality in that squad, it was probably much needed, but they are getting less and less.
As I said earlier, the 1st team under Holloway had some reasonable players in it but not enough and they were very poor as a team. The squad was garbage and you couldn't replace the 1st choice players with the squad players. He brought in a couple of players from very low levels (one from the League of Wales - his name escapes me) who were miles away from being good enough to play in a L2 team. Hurst did use players who Holloway brought in and he did bring in some players who were mistakes but the players who made us look better later in the season were all brought in by Hurst. And almost all of Holloway's awful signings were gone very quickly in the following summer.
Like I said I didn't see much but decided to have a look at the squad assembled by Holloway or players that were already here at the start of 20/21 season
Jake Eastwood is ironically back here (assuming he was backup)
Luke Hendrie - has had a steady career Luke Waterfall- done well here after that season Eliott Hewitt - done well at Mansfield - long term injuries
Pollock & Idehen - both at teams in the Champ and doing well
Clifton- still here done well Matete- good player at league 1 level now El mizouni - leyton orients star player Joe starbuck- signed a contract with Tranmere
Tilley - doing well at Wimbledon Terry Taylor - a big move after no great reviews here
Green & Hanson up top probably past there best but still ok on their day .
I have cherry picked
There are double figures in that squad who didn't progress but my point is surely we had enough 'in the building ' to stay up so I think Hurst must take some responsibility for the relegation .
As on paper a lot of these have gone on to be very decent players some even at a higher level .
Like I said I didn't see much but decided to have a look at the squad assembled by Holloway or players that were already here at the start of 20/21 season
Jake Eastwood is ironically back here (assuming he was backup)
Luke Hendrie - has had a steady career Luke Waterfall- done well here after that season Eliott Hewitt - done well at Mansfield - long term injuries
Pollock & Idehen - both at teams in the Champ and doing well
Clifton- still here done well Matete- good player at league 1 level now El mizouni - leyton orients star player Joe starbuck- signed a contract with Tranmere
Tilley - doing well at Wimbledon Terry Taylor - a big move after no great reviews here
Green & Hanson up top probably past there best but still ok on their day .
I have cherry picked
There are double figures in that squad who didn't progress but my point is surely we had enough 'in the building ' to stay up so I think Hurst must take some responsibility for the relegation .
As on paper a lot of these have gone on to be very decent players some even at a higher level .
My final defence of Hurst because I really don't want to pick a fight and we're going have to agree to disagree...
Waterfall was awful in that team - most were surprised when he stayed and Hurst turned him into the Titan he is today. Green was the most unpopular player I can recall in my 45+ years supporting Town. A majority of Town fans thought he was sh*t. Hanson was sh*t. He was either sh*t injured or sh*t playing. But mostly sh*t injured. El Mizouni hardly played for us - he signed, played a handful of games and then got injured so went back to his club (Ipswich?)
Others in your list were decent players and I take your point.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Little bit out with the timelines of some of those players there Mappers.
Matete, El Mizouni and Eastwood were all Hurst signings.
The rest, with the exception of Taylor and Tilley, were already here before Holloway. Hendrie, Waterfall, Hewitt, Hanson and Green were all actually Jolley signings. Pollock was also given h chance under Jolley.
Taylor has gone onto have a far better career than I think anyone imagined.
My memory is very much like that of BobbyCummingsTackle, in that Holloway's signings were almost unanimously binned off at the first opportunity with the exception of very few. Racking my brains, I think it's only Scannell who Hurst ended up holding onto beyond the summer of '21.
Selected squads for Hurst's first three games...the only word that springs to mind when looking at them is 'awful'.
Holloway hooked me when he first came in. I was very sceptical upon his arrival but he pulled the wool well and truly over my eyes. Those first signings of the likes of Tilley, Billy Clarke, Josh Benson, Anthony Glennon, Elliott Grandin....I really, really thought we were going to be something special.
We can go into the reasons until the cows come home, but having lost virtually all of those he brought in and then the guy who was his star performer (Charles Vernam), the recruitment that summer was absolute abysmal.
Danny Rose Ira Jackson Jr Montel Gibson George Williams Alhagi Touray Sissay Sean Scannell Owura Edwards Luke Spokes Terry Taylor Owen Windsor James Morton Danny Preston Kyle Bennett Virgil Gomis Bilel Mohsni Filipe Morais
Taylor went onto better things and perhaps his time here came just too early for him. Scannell was a class act on and off the field, but horrific fitness record, Williams was something different but has done sod all since here. I thought Edwards was something exciting but we didn't seem to quite know how to use him. ....after that, nah. Nothing. I'd completely forgot about Virgil Gomis and James Morton so I apologise if I've put the memory of them back in the mind of anyone.
See the difference Buckley brought in Patterson, Till and Puis 3 quality additions and got the best out of the rest of gge existing squad. I also recall he played 4-5-1 a lot to get results especially away from home .
But he had a decent squad to start with, no? It lacked a bit of cutting edge which we lacked with Reddy's injured and he fixed that (short-term) with Paterson. Hurst inherited a turd.
4-5-1 definitely became his favoured formation but it was horrible to watch. Was a run of home games when we were going a goal or two behind and he would sacrifice James Hunt for Gary Jones to go back to 4-4-2.
Fwiw Hurst did manage a 7 wins out of 8 run in 14/15 from 21st February to 6th April. Closest we came to winning the league that year but we’d have had to win 12 out of our last 13 games
My final defence of Hurst because I really don't want to pick a fight and we're going have to agree to disagree...
Waterfall was awful in that team - most were surprised when he stayed and Hurst turned him into the Titan he is today. Green was the most unpopular player I can recall in my 45+ years supporting Town. A majority of Town fans thought he was sh*t. Hanson was sh*t. He was either sh*t injured or sh*t playing. But mostly sh*t injured. El Mizouni hardly played for us - he signed, played a handful of games and then got injured so went back to his club (Ipswich?)
Others in your list were decent players and I take your point.
You have more insight into that season than me mate , like I said I hardly watched that covid season but i did hear that Waterfall was a disaster - it sounded like Holloway asked him to play like Van Basten which was never going to work .
My timeline probably is off , I just looked at the player database from that season .
My final defence of Hurst because I really don't want to pick a fight and we're going have to agree to disagree...
Waterfall was awful in that team - most were surprised when he stayed and Hurst turned him into the Titan he is today. Green was the most unpopular player I can recall in my 45+ years supporting Town. A majority of Town fans thought he was sh*t. Hanson was sh*t. He was either sh*t injured or sh*t playing. But mostly sh*t injured. El Mizouni hardly played for us - he signed, played a handful of games and then got injured so went back to his club (Ipswich?)
Others in your list were decent players and I take your point.
Green was flipping awful. So so bad. Hurst even commented he was surprised green scored when he happened to once
Green was flipping awful. So so bad. Hurst even commented he was surprised green scored when he happened to once
I was more angry with Hanson. He scored a handful very early in the season and then was constantly injured. I thought he was taking the p*ss, putting the money in the bank and doing nothing.
I never said Green wasn`t sh*t
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Like I said I didn't see much but decided to have a look at the squad assembled by Holloway or players that were already here at the start of 20/21 season
Jake Eastwood is ironically back here (assuming he was backup)
Luke Hendrie - has had a steady career Luke Waterfall- done well here after that season Eliott Hewitt - done well at Mansfield - long term injuries
Pollock & Idehen - both at teams in the Champ and doing well
Clifton- still here done well Matete- good player at league 1 level now El mizouni - leyton orients star player Joe starbuck- signed a contract with Tranmere
Tilley - doing well at Wimbledon Terry Taylor - a big move after no great reviews here
Green & Hanson up top probably past there best but still ok on their day .
I have cherry picked
There are double figures in that squad who didn't progress but my point is surely we had enough 'in the building ' to stay up so I think Hurst must take some responsibility for the relegation .
As on paper a lot of these have gone on to be very decent players some even at a higher level .
Eastwood, Matete and El Mizouni were signed by Hurst. Hewitt was transformed by Hurst and actually started playing really well alongside Menayese. Waterfall had had his confidence completely shot by Holloway and was having an awful season, not anyone's fault other than Holloway and to both Hurst's and Waterfall's credit they turned it round amazingly the next season. Tilley looked like a young lad miles away from home during a pandemic, wasn't pulling up trees and was probably better for him to move back south. Hendrie's form had fallen away quite significantly that season but he is a decent player. Starbuck is a totally bizarre one to include as he was 18 at the time and has not played higher than the NLN since then. Terry Taylor looked terrible whilst but has gone on to do very well elsewhere. Green and Hanson were shite. So that basically leaves Clifton and Pollock who were players already here who weren't in bad form.
I was more angry with Hanson. He scored a handful very early in the season and then was constantly injured. I thought he was taking the p*ss, putting the money in the bank and doing nothing.
I never said Green wasn`t sh*t
Hanson had a miraculous recovery from injury when Hurst took post.
Didn't play a minute in November, December and the first two games of January. Yet after missing the first two games under Hurst, then went onto play 18 of the next 19, starting and lasting the full game of many of them.
Hanson had a miraculous recovery from injury when Hurst took post.
Didn't play a minute in November, December and the first two games of January. Yet after missing the first two games under Hurst, then went onto play 18 of the next 19, starting and lasting the full game of many of them.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence though.
I don't remember that but it almost proves my point!
I remember seeing Green play somewhere (in an away match) and you could see he was trying but Hanson was just....
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Fwiw Hurst did manage a 7 wins out of 8 run in 14/15 from 21st February to 6th April. Closest we came to winning the league that year but we’d have had to win 12 out of our last 13 games
Yeah paid the price for a god awful start (dropping points at home to Nuneaton, Dover, Altrincham and a Brodie-inspired Southport (with David Raya in nets)).
Green certainly tried, but he just didn't achieve anything. Not sure if he'd had some sort of an injury and never recovered or something similar, but there was none of the pace and power we thought we were going to get when he was signed. Him and Hanson were on pretty hefty pay packets as well, I'd guess, which wasn't the best use of resources.
Hanson had a miraculous recovery from injury when Hurst took post.
Didn't play a minute in November, December and the first two games of January. Yet after missing the first two games under Hurst, then went onto play 18 of the next 19, starting and lasting the full game of many of them.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence though.
Think that was to do with Holloways obsession with what he referred to as "my run that I have" - the challenging run he often referred to as being his way of someone proving their fitness.
Obviously failing to recognise that players and their bodies are different, and someone like a 35 year old (don't know how old he was) Hanson wouldn't do a 10 mile run but could still be used effectively in a match if managed correctly throughout the week.
I'm sure Hurst just managed his training regime and had realistic expectations of him, and probably listened to the sports science input about Hansons individual capabilities and needs.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
Ah yes, the run that Greg Halford failed a matter of days before coming off the bench for Southend to seal the 3 points for them.
I don't think Halford was a world beater, certainly not at that point of his career but a useful utility player and definitely a physical presence option in attack. In comparison we replaced our starting attack of Owen Windsor and Ira Jackson Jr with Montel Gibson and Alhagi Touray Sisay from the bench
Matt Green was absolutely horrendous for us after a half decent first couple of months or so the season before, but in our relegation season it was very evident he was past it and offered very very little, but amazingly I do remember at the end of that season there was some posters on this forum who actually wanted Green to lead our line in the national league! All I can say is I'm glad he wasn't offered a new deal
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