are we better than last season ?

Quoted from Tommy

I don't disagree with the comment after the bit in bold about being toothless, but I can't agree that our play is exactly the same as last season. We are clearly trying to dominate possession a lot more and are much, much better at building possession in our defensive third and into the middle third. We've clearly brought players in to be able to play this way so it's clearly something Hurst wanted to do. I actually think there were games last year that showed he wanted us to play this way but couldn't because of the players we had.

The obvious deficiency we have is getting into the final third and maintaining the same control and adding creativity. But I think our style has noticeably changed this season.

How do we change or improve what we're with struggling with at the top end of the pitch? For starters, although I'm happy with Rose as a signing, we don't have much quality(options) up top really do we. Secondly, do we get enough players into the final third to prevent us being so overloaded by opposition players defending that we'd find it hard to keep the ball in that final third? Then, is this through lack of runners making those forward runs, is it through having one striker and no-one close to him centrally (think McAtee in a no.10 role). Would we need to come away from this 4141/433 and move to the 4231 we used in nonleague and at times last season, to have someone centrally to link with the no.9?
For me, that player in the middle of the 3 supporting the striker needs to be someone with craft and creativity, not just a runner such as Clifton/Holohan. Do we have that player in the squad? Ainley seems to fit the mould of that type of player if he fulfils some of his promise there. Other than that we don't really have anyone for that role that I can think of.

I agree with others that have said our forward options were healthier when we won promotion than at any time since (McAtee, Taylor, Mani, Abrahams), which is frustrating.

Often the most creative players, or goalscorers, are the ones that don't necessarily clock up 100k on the GPS every Saturday, or maybe have an ego, or maybe are a bit of a buffoon. Is our focus on signing good characters is so strong that we get attackers who are grafters rather than genuine quality. Hurst & Doig seemed to manage McAtee ok and he definitely had a (healthy level) of ego and arrogance, so hopefully they wouldn't be too put off bringing that type of personality in again.

Quoted from MaccasBoots

I agree with Mappers point that Conteh is essentially 1 and a half players, and that Hurst will therefore persist with the 433/4141 shape.

Essentially, there are two attacking problems that teams in this shape need to solve positionally.

1. Getting players close enough to the centre forward to threaten the opposition.

2. Maintaining width to stretch the opposition.

If you don't do the first one, then the centre forward gets marked out of the game, and you have meaningless possession out wide and deep. This is the issue we have been facing early in the season, in my view.

If you don't do the second one, then the opposition can defend really narrow, meaning there's no space between them and attacks end up being a congested mess.

To simplify, there are two primary ways to solve both these issues.

1. Have your wingers play narrower and get close to the striker, with the full backs overlapping and maintaing the width. Central midfielders focus more on holding their shape and covering the gaps left by the full backs. See Klopp's Liverpool, Zidane's Madrid.

2. Have your wingers stay wide to stretch the opposition full backs, with the central midfielders bombing forward and finding space in the gap between centre back and full back. Full backs tuck inside and support the lone holding midfielder. See Pep's City, Ange's Spurs.

As it stands, our full backs aren't getting forward enough for the first option (likely out of fear of being exposed as Glennon was early on), but our central midfielders also aren't getting into those attacking spaces with enough regularity. The result is that we have a lack of penetration, as opposition full backs can mark our wingers without having to worry about our full backs overlapping or our midfielders running in behind them.

I think Hurst maybe intended Glennon to be a full back who would get forward all the time, but that clearly didn't work as teams targeted us down that side and we had no answer. I now suspect he is looking for our midfielder players to get forward more while our wingers hold the width and the full backs tuck in - this would explain the signings of Ainley and Andrews, two attack minded midfield players.

It might see us lining up something like:

Eastwood
Mullarkey Rodgers Maher Amos
Andrews Conteh Ainley
Gnahoua Rose Eisa

Idea being that Gnahoua and Eisa use their pace and attacking threat to stretch the full backs, while Andrews and Ainley attack the space and support Rose. Mullarkey and Amos would play a little more conservatively, tucking in alongside Conteh, and acting as auxillary midfielders.

Just some thoughts about what Hurst might be planning - I'm probably well wide of the mark though!

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Anyone watching sky footy tonight?

Interesting analysis of how to score goals using statistics. Brentford manager Thomas Franks showing they try to get players into opposition box and shoot.

How often do mariners get 3-4 players in opposition boxes.

I mentioned something like this yesterday as Leeds scored 3 goals on breakaway with three or so players n the box but got usual red cross. Hope it wasn’t PH who gave me my red cross!

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Anyone watching sky footy tonight?

Interesting analysis of how to score goals using statistics. Brentford manager Thomas Franks showing they try to get players into opposition box and shoot.

How often do mariners get 3-4 players in opposition boxes.

I mentioned something like this yesterday as Leeds scored 3 goals on breakaway with three or so players n the box but got usual red cross. Hope it wasn’t PH who gave me my red cross!

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Anyone watching sky footy tonight?

Interesting analysis of how to score goals using statistics. Brentford manager Thomas Franks showing they try to get players into opposition box and shoot.

How often do mariners get 3-4 players in opposition boxes.

I mentioned something like this yesterday as Leeds scored 3 goals on breakaway with three or so players n the box but got usual red cross. Hope it wasn’t PH who gave me my red cross!

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

I'm wondering if Khan can do that central role with Eisa and Gnahoua on the flanks. If Conteh and Clifton are sat behind him, it could be quite powerful. Obviously, we'll have to wait until he's proven his fitness a bit. We don't want to go too hard and losing him again. I'd prefer him fit for the rest of the season, not 2 games.

Quoted from toontown

Interesting post.
In his incarnation Hurst seems keen on full backs pushing forward, last season we frequently had effete as a spare man pushing as forward as a winger. Glennon was an effective attacker from wing back and full back, getting numerous assists. In clifton and holohan We have central midfielders who are more athletic than creative. So I'd have thought option 1 was more likely?