The green seats

Read on here many times people asking whatever happened to the temp seats well I think the Oldham ground hopper on Facebook as found them at clay cross football club. If I was clever which am not I would post the pic lol

From their FB site. Did they look like this?

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=768033738657773&set=pcb.768036505324163

Quoted from Croxton

From their FB site. Did they look like this?

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=768033738657773&set=pcb.768036505324163

Yes but a full  view of them if only I could post the pic

Quoted from Croxton

From their FB site. Did they look like this?

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=768033738657773&set=pcb.768036505324163

Are there probably not hundreds of generic temporary green seats floating about the place?

Quoted from crusty ole pie

Yes but a full  view of them if only I could post the pic

This one you mean?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.....207520000&type=3

Quoted from LN8Mariner

This one you mean?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.....207520000&type=3

Looks like jury duty that pic.

Quoted from LN8Mariner

This one you mean?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.....207520000&type=3

Not that one

Think it's this pic.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Think it's this pic.

That’s it

About 70 seats makes you think how unaffordable temp seats are for so little return

Not sure those are the ones we had.  

Difficult to find an image of them but from video clips around that time, the one in the corner between the Main and Pontoon has two sections to it and both are much bigger (one more so than the other).  Can't find any camera stills of the ones either side of the Findus but I think they were bigger too.  Might be my memory playing tricks on me but I'm sure those seats added about 1000 to the capacity.

Just found this, moments before Muzzy Izzet's wonder goal.  The ones in between the Osmond and the Findus definitely similar size to the ones between the Main and the Pontoon.

God, I've done down a rabbit hole here...

  

Quick count of those seats shows 240.  If we had 3 of those longer structures that's 720, the small structure looks to have 9 seats (3 and a 6) with the same 10 rows back so 90 in each structure.  270 across the 3 corners.  

990 extra capacity.  Lets average out ticket prices at £15 a pop, that's £15k extra a game, providing you sell them and factor in that people might take those seats as opposed to ones behind a post in the Main Stand.   Absolutely no idea how much it would cost to buy or rent temp seats and there is definitely more to it than just getting them in lumping them in the corner.  Would be facility considerations and I'm sure someone has previously said on here safety rules have changed since we last had them in place.

Get this 90 seater for £1800 for the weekend or the 130 seater for £2280 (https://www.mobile-grandstands.co.uk/).  Just on hire by game basis the cost of selling all those seats (in addition!) is around break even.   Obviously you wouldn't expect the club to hire on a game to game by basis.  





That company have provided one of those stands as a long term thing to Morpeth.  

To meet EFL regulations (minimum of 2000 seats) Barrow have popped up three temp stands, which doesn't look the worst in the world.  I mean it isn't going to win any design awards in the near future but there's a lot worse in this division and the one above.  https://www.barrowafc.com/news/2023/august/new-stands-at-barrow-afc-story/



Are 1878 going to look at this thread and think, intercourse it yeah we've missed a trick all along?  No.

But I don't think getting something in place is impossible, far from it.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

Get this 90 seater for £1800 for the weekend or the 130 seater for £2280 (https://www.mobile-grandstands.co.uk/).  Just on hire by game basis the cost of selling all those seats (in addition!) is around break even.   Obviously you wouldn't expect the club to hire on a game to game by basis.  





That company have provided one of those stands as a long term thing to Morpeth.  

To meet EFL regulations (minimum of 2000 seats) Barrow have popped up three temp stands, which doesn't look the worst in the world.  I mean it isn't going to win any design awards in the near future but there's a lot worse in this division and the one above.  https://www.barrowafc.com/news/2023/august/new-stands-at-barrow-afc-story/



Are 1878 going to look at this thread and think, intercourse it yeah we've missed a trick all along?  No.

But I don't think getting something in place is impossible, far from it.  

Surely something like what Cleethorpes or Grimsby Borough have down the side of the pitch can be extended backwards? It is a modular solution but only a few rows deep.

Or, we have huge container ships arriving on our local docks, why not take some inspiration from Stadium 974 at the World Cup last year?

Why are people obsessed with increasing the capacity?

Our average home gate last season was 6295, a smidge over 2/3rds full.

The owners have said more than once that it's not yet needed nor feasible, so why the constant speculation on the best place to add extra seats?

Quoted from ginnywings

Why are people obsessed with increasing the capacity?

Our average home gate last season was 6295, a smidge over 2/3rds full.

The owners have said more than once that it's not yet needed nor feasible, so why the constant speculation on the best place to add extra seats?

Why are people obsessed with not increasing the capacity?

As things stand, the away end will only sell out two or three times a season, so you need to focus on home sales as a proportion of home capacity.

There is little or no headroom to grow the fanbase, that's hardly a recipe for progression as a club, is it?  Look at how Lincoln capitalised on the wave of enthusiasm following their promotions and cup success.

Or we can just drift along, with the club mirroring the town itself in terms of ambition and development.

Quoted from Captain Sensible

Why are people obsessed with not increasing the capacity?

As things stand, the away end will only sell out two or three times a season, so you need to focus on home sales as a proportion of home capacity.

There is little or no headroom to grow the fanbase, that's hardly a recipe for progression as a club, is it?  Look at how Lincoln capitalised on the wave of enthusiasm following their promotions and cup success.

Or we can just drift along, with the club mirroring the town itself in terms of ambition and development.

Yeah, this is what I keep hearing, but there are hardly hordes of fans locked out of the ground every week.

I want the club to grow as much as the next fan, but the clamour for more seating is putting the cart before the horse in my opinion.

Gates are going up, are they not? Back to back increases, with a 3rd year likely this time round.

There's a whole different argument, done to death before, about bums on seats vs tickets sold and how many people can't come because of excrement seats (which in my view shouldn't be considered part of the capacity).

At this rate and definitely if we get into League One with much bigger away followings, we will need extra capacity.

Cart before the horse or closing the door after the horse has bolted?

Sorry to say this but the last 2 home games show we don't need to increase capacity YET. 100s of seats free last game, not even spaced out ones. Plenty together so no excuses.

Quoted from lukeo

Sorry to say this but the last 2 home games show we don't need to increase capacity YET. 100s of seats free last game, not even spaced out ones. Plenty together so no excuses.

Not sure August attendances can be reliable in support of either viewpoint. I have an ST and attend regularly but for many years had to pick odd games to bring my lads with me. No problem when crowds were sub 5000. It would be difficult to get 3/4 seats together with a good view in Sept/ Oct without an ST.

Lots of parents are unable to commit to regular matches and are left with poor choices for walk ups. If we are truly 'better together', and wish to grow the fan base, then GTFC need to consider their offering to parents. The guy on my right in The Upper died last year and the cheery chap on my left is 92.

It's summer holidays Luke, I know of a couple of ST holders who haven't gone because they're away and then a few who will go when they can (owing to shift work) but are away.

3 home games in the school holidays shouldn't be what we're measuring the demand on.  You've gotta do it over a sustained period.  As for the 'yet' element, no you're right.  At this exact moment in time we don't need to.  Anyone who wanted a seat for the first 3 home games could probably have got one, if it was a decent view is another issue - I seem to think the Bradford game there wasn't many tickets available, yet was a fair few no-shows.  What we don't know is how many people looked at the online ticketing system and saw no seats available that they wanted.

But in the future I really do think we're facing a situation of turning fans away once, twice...they've decided to not bother in future.  The aspiration is promotion to League One. With that (hopeful) success would come increased away attendances.  I reckon at least half of the clubs in that league would want the full 10% we have to give, which reduces the home capacity available when demand would be at the highest for a long, long time.

First step - make the most of what we've got.  I think we've started to do that with the season ticket resale scheme.  Give that time to embed and work, if that frees up enough decent seats and we're able to make sure everyone who wants to go can do, job done.

Second step - addressing the poor views.  Some of the seats on sale, especially at the back of the Main Stand, are atrocious views.  It's almost embarrassing that they're up for sale at the same price as other tickets.  If you're a casual fan and you end up there, you won't go back if it's the only option available.   Discount them from the capacity that we would like to be selling, then see if we're still meeting the demand.

Third step - Increase the capacity (if needed).

Personally I feel we've started the season slower (and less entertaining) than expected.  I really did think we start like a house on fire and a bit of that initial enthusiasm has tapered off a bit.  But I don't for a second think we can nor should just sit back and hope it's all ok. (and I'd add I don't think 1878 are doing so - I'm near certain they've a plan in place, they just haven't shared it).  
If we want the club to grow, we need more income and that comes from more fans.  We can't compete at this level when it comes to spending, how are we expected to do it at a higher level without getting more money in through the turnstiles.?

Quoted from lukeo

Sorry to say this but the last 2 home games show we don't need to increase capacity YET. 100s of seats free last game, not even spaced out ones. Plenty together so no excuses.

We could probably have given Mansfield another 1000 tickets if they was available

Quoted from diehardmariner

It's summer holidays Luke, I know of a couple of ST holders who haven't gone because they're away and then a few who will go when they can (owing to shift work) but are away.

3 home games in the school holidays shouldn't be what we're measuring the demand on. You've gotta do it over a sustained period.  As for the 'yet' element, no you're right.  At this exact moment in time we don't need to.  Anyone who wanted a seat for the first 3 home games could probably have got one, if it was a decent view is another issue - I seem to think the Bradford game there wasn't many tickets available, yet was a fair few no-shows.  What we don't know is how many people looked at the online ticketing system and saw no seats available that they wanted.

But in the future I really do think we're facing a situation of turning fans away once, twice...they've decided to not bother in future.  The aspiration is promotion to League One. With that (hopeful) success would come increased away attendances.  I reckon at least half of the clubs in that league would want the full 10% we have to give, which reduces the home capacity available when demand would be at the highest for a long, long time.

First step - make the most of what we've got.  I think we've started to do that with the season ticket resale scheme.  Give that time to embed and work, if that frees up enough decent seats and we're able to make sure everyone who wants to go can do, job done.

Second step - addressing the poor views.  Some of the seats on sale, especially at the back of the Main Stand, are atrocious views.  It's almost embarrassing that they're up for sale at the same price as other tickets.  If you're a casual fan and you end up there, you won't go back if it's the only option available.   Discount them from the capacity that we would like to be selling, then see if we're still meeting the demand.

Third step - Increase the capacity (if needed).

Personally I feel we've started the season slower (and less entertaining) than expected.  I really did think we start like a house on fire and a bit of that initial enthusiasm has tapered off a bit.  But I don't for a second think we can nor should just sit back and hope it's all ok. (and I'd add I don't think 1878 are doing so - I'm near certain they've a plan in place, they just haven't shared it).  
If we want the club to grow, we need more income and that comes from more fans.  We can't compete at this level when it comes to spending, how are we expected to do it at a higher level without getting more money in through the turnstiles.?

Like a full season perhaps, where the average was 6295, which is 2/3rds capacity.

The sums don't yet back up the argument for more capacity, which is what the owners have said more than once.

The only problem I can foresee is not enough people releasing their seat when not attending, but hopefully that has been addressed.

Which sums are you looking at ginny?  

Tickets sold, the amount of empty seats each game, the official announced attendances or the number that won't go because they can't sit together/in decent seats?

None of them corelate, the latter we don't even have a number because it's purely anecdotal but we know for some people it's a reality.  

The smart approach is surely to anticipate the trend and put things in place for it.  The reactionary approach is one that would sit uncomfortably with me to be honest.  

Genuinely curious, what would be your tipping point for increasing capacity?  

It might not happen, I hope it does, but if/when we get to League One there's plenty of away clubs that would gladly take 2000 seats if they're available.  We won't give them that because we'll want more seats for ourselves (rightly so).  But what level of income would we be turning away?  Even with away fans only getting 900, that leaves home capacity at what...7000?  6000 bums were on seats for a Tuesday night in the summer holidays against Salford, only takes a 15% increase to eat up all that capacity.  

The problem we have is money we do not have a bottomless pit.

Jason and Andrew are putting their money in on a regular basis.

If they invest in extending the main to the pontoon it will a long time before the cost pays for itself with increased attendance.

1878 are doing a real good job but it will take time a long time before they get things right on and off the pitch.

BUT

I am glad we have got them and we will get there in the end.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

It's summer holidays Luke, I know of a couple of ST holders who haven't gone because they're away and then a few who will go when they can (owing to shift work) but are away.

3 home games in the school holidays shouldn't be what we're measuring the demand on.  You've gotta do it over a sustained period.  As for the 'yet' element, no you're right.  At this exact moment in time we don't need to.  Anyone who wanted a seat for the first 3 home games could probably have got one, if it was a decent view is another issue - I seem to think the Bradford game there wasn't many tickets available, yet was a fair few no-shows.  What we don't know is how many people looked at the online ticketing system and saw no seats available that they wanted.

But in the future I really do think we're facing a situation of turning fans away once, twice...they've decided to not bother in future.  The aspiration is promotion to League One. With that (hopeful) success would come increased away attendances.  I reckon at least half of the clubs in that league would want the full 10% we have to give, which reduces the home capacity available when demand would be at the highest for a long, long time.

First step - make the most of what we've got.  I think we've started to do that with the season ticket resale scheme.  Give that time to embed and work, if that frees up enough decent seats and we're able to make sure everyone who wants to go can do, job done.

Second step - addressing the poor views.  Some of the seats on sale, especially at the back of the Main Stand, are atrocious views.  It's almost embarrassing that they're up for sale at the same price as other tickets.  If you're a casual fan and you end up there, you won't go back if it's the only option available.   Discount them from the capacity that we would like to be selling, then see if we're still meeting the demand.

Third step - Increase the capacity (if needed).

Personally I feel we've started the season slower (and less entertaining) than expected.  I really did think we start like a house on fire and a bit of that initial enthusiasm has tapered off a bit.  But I don't for a second think we can nor should just sit back and hope it's all ok. (and I'd add I don't think 1878 are doing so - I'm near certain they've a plan in place, they just haven't shared it).  
If we want the club to grow, we need more income and that comes from more fans.  We can't compete at this level when it comes to spending, how are we expected to do it at a higher level without getting more money in through the turnstiles.?

I agree with that summation. Increasing capacity is a no brainer. What does it matter if we sometimes have some empty seats if we increase capacity? It happens at most grounds outside the Premier league . It gives the consumer greater choice and when the big games come along we sell more tickets and make more money.

The season hasn't started with a bang, and everything does seem a little bit flat, including the players which isn't helping, but if we do have a good spell we would need extra capacity.