The green seats

Quoted from lukeo

Sorry to say this but the last 2 home games show we don't need to increase capacity YET. 100s of seats free last game, not even spaced out ones. Plenty together so no excuses.

Not sure August attendances can be reliable in support of either viewpoint. I have an ST and attend regularly but for many years had to pick odd games to bring my lads with me. No problem when crowds were sub 5000. It would be difficult to get 3/4 seats together with a good view in Sept/ Oct without an ST.

Lots of parents are unable to commit to regular matches and are left with poor choices for walk ups. If we are truly 'better together', and wish to grow the fan base, then GTFC need to consider their offering to parents. The guy on my right in The Upper died last year and the cheery chap on my left is 92.

It's summer holidays Luke, I know of a couple of ST holders who haven't gone because they're away and then a few who will go when they can (owing to shift work) but are away.

3 home games in the school holidays shouldn't be what we're measuring the demand on.  You've gotta do it over a sustained period.  As for the 'yet' element, no you're right.  At this exact moment in time we don't need to.  Anyone who wanted a seat for the first 3 home games could probably have got one, if it was a decent view is another issue - I seem to think the Bradford game there wasn't many tickets available, yet was a fair few no-shows.  What we don't know is how many people looked at the online ticketing system and saw no seats available that they wanted.

But in the future I really do think we're facing a situation of turning fans away once, twice...they've decided to not bother in future.  The aspiration is promotion to League One. With that (hopeful) success would come increased away attendances.  I reckon at least half of the clubs in that league would want the full 10% we have to give, which reduces the home capacity available when demand would be at the highest for a long, long time.

First step - make the most of what we've got.  I think we've started to do that with the season ticket resale scheme.  Give that time to embed and work, if that frees up enough decent seats and we're able to make sure everyone who wants to go can do, job done.

Second step - addressing the poor views.  Some of the seats on sale, especially at the back of the Main Stand, are atrocious views.  It's almost embarrassing that they're up for sale at the same price as other tickets.  If you're a casual fan and you end up there, you won't go back if it's the only option available.   Discount them from the capacity that we would like to be selling, then see if we're still meeting the demand.

Third step - Increase the capacity (if needed).

Personally I feel we've started the season slower (and less entertaining) than expected.  I really did think we start like a house on fire and a bit of that initial enthusiasm has tapered off a bit.  But I don't for a second think we can nor should just sit back and hope it's all ok. (and I'd add I don't think 1878 are doing so - I'm near certain they've a plan in place, they just haven't shared it).  
If we want the club to grow, we need more income and that comes from more fans.  We can't compete at this level when it comes to spending, how are we expected to do it at a higher level without getting more money in through the turnstiles.?

Quoted from lukeo

Sorry to say this but the last 2 home games show we don't need to increase capacity YET. 100s of seats free last game, not even spaced out ones. Plenty together so no excuses.

We could probably have given Mansfield another 1000 tickets if they was available

Quoted from diehardmariner

It's summer holidays Luke, I know of a couple of ST holders who haven't gone because they're away and then a few who will go when they can (owing to shift work) but are away.

3 home games in the school holidays shouldn't be what we're measuring the demand on. You've gotta do it over a sustained period.  As for the 'yet' element, no you're right.  At this exact moment in time we don't need to.  Anyone who wanted a seat for the first 3 home games could probably have got one, if it was a decent view is another issue - I seem to think the Bradford game there wasn't many tickets available, yet was a fair few no-shows.  What we don't know is how many people looked at the online ticketing system and saw no seats available that they wanted.

But in the future I really do think we're facing a situation of turning fans away once, twice...they've decided to not bother in future.  The aspiration is promotion to League One. With that (hopeful) success would come increased away attendances.  I reckon at least half of the clubs in that league would want the full 10% we have to give, which reduces the home capacity available when demand would be at the highest for a long, long time.

First step - make the most of what we've got.  I think we've started to do that with the season ticket resale scheme.  Give that time to embed and work, if that frees up enough decent seats and we're able to make sure everyone who wants to go can do, job done.

Second step - addressing the poor views.  Some of the seats on sale, especially at the back of the Main Stand, are atrocious views.  It's almost embarrassing that they're up for sale at the same price as other tickets.  If you're a casual fan and you end up there, you won't go back if it's the only option available.   Discount them from the capacity that we would like to be selling, then see if we're still meeting the demand.

Third step - Increase the capacity (if needed).

Personally I feel we've started the season slower (and less entertaining) than expected.  I really did think we start like a house on fire and a bit of that initial enthusiasm has tapered off a bit.  But I don't for a second think we can nor should just sit back and hope it's all ok. (and I'd add I don't think 1878 are doing so - I'm near certain they've a plan in place, they just haven't shared it).  
If we want the club to grow, we need more income and that comes from more fans.  We can't compete at this level when it comes to spending, how are we expected to do it at a higher level without getting more money in through the turnstiles.?

Like a full season perhaps, where the average was 6295, which is 2/3rds capacity.

The sums don't yet back up the argument for more capacity, which is what the owners have said more than once.

The only problem I can foresee is not enough people releasing their seat when not attending, but hopefully that has been addressed.

Which sums are you looking at ginny?  

Tickets sold, the amount of empty seats each game, the official announced attendances or the number that won't go because they can't sit together/in decent seats?

None of them corelate, the latter we don't even have a number because it's purely anecdotal but we know for some people it's a reality.  

The smart approach is surely to anticipate the trend and put things in place for it.  The reactionary approach is one that would sit uncomfortably with me to be honest.  

Genuinely curious, what would be your tipping point for increasing capacity?  

It might not happen, I hope it does, but if/when we get to League One there's plenty of away clubs that would gladly take 2000 seats if they're available.  We won't give them that because we'll want more seats for ourselves (rightly so).  But what level of income would we be turning away?  Even with away fans only getting 900, that leaves home capacity at what...7000?  6000 bums were on seats for a Tuesday night in the summer holidays against Salford, only takes a 15% increase to eat up all that capacity.  

The problem we have is money we do not have a bottomless pit.

Jason and Andrew are putting their money in on a regular basis.

If they invest in extending the main to the pontoon it will a long time before the cost pays for itself with increased attendance.

1878 are doing a real good job but it will take time a long time before they get things right on and off the pitch.

BUT

I am glad we have got them and we will get there in the end.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

It's summer holidays Luke, I know of a couple of ST holders who haven't gone because they're away and then a few who will go when they can (owing to shift work) but are away.

3 home games in the school holidays shouldn't be what we're measuring the demand on.  You've gotta do it over a sustained period.  As for the 'yet' element, no you're right.  At this exact moment in time we don't need to.  Anyone who wanted a seat for the first 3 home games could probably have got one, if it was a decent view is another issue - I seem to think the Bradford game there wasn't many tickets available, yet was a fair few no-shows.  What we don't know is how many people looked at the online ticketing system and saw no seats available that they wanted.

But in the future I really do think we're facing a situation of turning fans away once, twice...they've decided to not bother in future.  The aspiration is promotion to League One. With that (hopeful) success would come increased away attendances.  I reckon at least half of the clubs in that league would want the full 10% we have to give, which reduces the home capacity available when demand would be at the highest for a long, long time.

First step - make the most of what we've got.  I think we've started to do that with the season ticket resale scheme.  Give that time to embed and work, if that frees up enough decent seats and we're able to make sure everyone who wants to go can do, job done.

Second step - addressing the poor views.  Some of the seats on sale, especially at the back of the Main Stand, are atrocious views.  It's almost embarrassing that they're up for sale at the same price as other tickets.  If you're a casual fan and you end up there, you won't go back if it's the only option available.   Discount them from the capacity that we would like to be selling, then see if we're still meeting the demand.

Third step - Increase the capacity (if needed).

Personally I feel we've started the season slower (and less entertaining) than expected.  I really did think we start like a house on fire and a bit of that initial enthusiasm has tapered off a bit.  But I don't for a second think we can nor should just sit back and hope it's all ok. (and I'd add I don't think 1878 are doing so - I'm near certain they've a plan in place, they just haven't shared it).  
If we want the club to grow, we need more income and that comes from more fans.  We can't compete at this level when it comes to spending, how are we expected to do it at a higher level without getting more money in through the turnstiles.?

I agree with that summation. Increasing capacity is a no brainer. What does it matter if we sometimes have some empty seats if we increase capacity? It happens at most grounds outside the Premier league . It gives the consumer greater choice and when the big games come along we sell more tickets and make more money.

The season hasn't started with a bang, and everything does seem a little bit flat, including the players which isn't helping, but if we do have a good spell we would need extra capacity.