Jordan Cropper Vs Michee Efete.

This is not a thread to slate/bash/insult the players....
Genuinely got me thinking after reading the Walsall "just back" thread which of the 2 is the best option to have at right back....
There's Cropper who's throw is an absolute weapon of mass destruction when launched unto the box but he doesn't have the pace of Michee nor, from what I've seen, the aerial ability.
What's others thoughts??

Think there's room in the squad for both.. would have liked to have seen Cropper tried in the 3 at the back on right side before end of season but looks like Hurst has made his mind up on him.. he impressed me last season and that throw in is missed

Michee is a much better full back than Cropper. Cropper doesn't have anything like the athleticism, the physical presence, the attacking threat, ability to get us up the pitch or the goal threat that Michee has.

They're probably similar on the ball, Cropper is less prone to lapses and that throw in, in and of itself, is a massive threat and can be the point of difference in marginal games, as we all know. We wouldn't have got promoted without him, and, if he'd been fit, Hursty would've picked Michee over Cropper in the playoffs.

Ready to be slated, but Efete is just a better Serge Makofo...
He runs with the ball, but never seems to know what he's doing. Looks very clumsy at times, but at times does well.
IMO, he can't be our main RB next season

Cropper is good, and helped us get promoted, but not sure if he is league 2 promotion contenders quality.

I would keep both .
Think Michee has been targeted unfairly at times -its his first season at league 2 level and he is prone to the odd lapse of concentration, if he didnt have those he would be playing higher as he has all the attributes off a solid right back .

Cropper is just worth having as that option off the bench with that unique weapon .

I think we have other areas of the pitch will be highest on PH's list :Centre forwards , an attacking midfield player and 2 centre backs will be required at least dependant on who re -signs, maybe more .

Now that we can have 7 subs on the bench, it’s almost worth having a player with those throws available to come on when games are being chased with 10/15 minutes to go. Would it work as effectively against a better standard of player than last year? Who knows but it’s certainly something that could be beneficial, especially now Taylor is back to a good degree of fitness. And we lose the height of Maher when he’s taking throws, which was obvious against Walsall

Quoted from Mariner_09

Michee is a much better full back than Cropper. Cropper doesn't have anything like the athleticism, the physical presence, the attacking threat, ability to get us up the pitch or the goal threat that Michee has.

They're probably similar on the ball, Cropper is less prone to lapses and that throw in, in and of itself, is a massive threat and can be the point of difference in marginal games, as we all know. We wouldn't have got promoted without him, and, if he'd been fit, Hursty would've picked Michee over Cropper in the playoffs.

Michee:
I'd be happy to have him as right sided CB in a 3
I'd be happy for him to be cover at RWB
I'd hope for better at RB if we go back to a 4 at any point

Michee's best position appears to me to be the right side of 3 centre backs where he's seemed solid. He does an okay job at right wing back, though he is usually loath to take a step forward if a backwards step is much easier. I've said it before but he rarely finds a teammate in the box, all his crosses are "put into an area" type (see Emannuel at Northampton for the difference). He's frankly one of the most bamboozling footballers I've ever seen play for us and is usually good vakue for entertainment at least. However I don't think he's good enough as a right back, especially one expected to move us up the pitch.

Cropper:
His long throw is one hell of a weapon that massively helped us get promoted but I don't recall much else about his general play. Seemed solid enough at NL level. I'm not really sure how we can make a worthwhile comparison when we've only seen Cropper 10 times in 2 seasons

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

Ready to be slated, but Efete is just a better Serge Makofo...
He runs with the ball, but never seems to know what he's doing. Looks very clumsy at times, but at times does well.
IMO, he can't be our main RB next season

Cropper is good, and helped us get promoted, but not sure if he is league 2 promotion contenders quality.

I totally agree! Not an assassination of Efete's ability but my views on his performances. Yes, he has athleticism and when he drives forward he can be very dangerous. But I would temper that with his defensive qualities as a full back. I just don't think he remains focused enough, tends to drift a yard or two away from whoever he is marking. He hesitates too much for me and doesn't attack the ball but instead waits for it to come to him which means he gets closed down quickly. IMO he seems more suited to the right hand side of a back three with a right wingback alongside him. I like my full backs to be defense biased with a back four and I don't think Efete is as good as Cropper in that role. I think Efete will be found out at League 1 level and I can't see him developing enough to attain that level. Then again I don't think Cropper could attain that level either, well at least in a promotion pushing side in League 1. Both have roles to play for us in League 2 but I don't see them being particularly outstanding any higher

I can't see us retaining Cropper, given his injury problems over the past few years. A pity, as I think he's a reasonable enough full-back (couldn't seem him as a wing-back) and he did well when he came in last season, but that throw-in is just ridiculous. In the future I'll always be comparing any long throw we see to Cropper's efforts.

Hard to tell until Cropper is fully fit and given a long run of games, even if that is elsewhere. He was a promising youngster taken on by the Burnley academy, but has had too many injuries to really establish himself anywhere. He started his career as a forward, so probably has a decent skill level, but you have to ask if it wasn't for his explosive throw ins, would we be that bothered if he stayed at Barnet permanently, or even be discussing his merits as a player to challenge Efete?

Michee, for me, is much the better option at the moment, and I think he suffers from a lot of undue criticism. At Brighton, the guy behind me was yelling constantly at how sh1t he is and how he shouldn't be in the team, yet he was one of our better performers that day I thought.

PH has said before that he has everything, bar belief in his own ability, and you see that in games. He seems to surprise himself and panic on occasions. when with a bit more confidence, he could cause a lot of damage, or at least more than he does now.

To sum up, I think Efete is a bit under rated and Cropper a bit over rated, but that doesn't mean they can't both do a decent job for us. Whether they are good enough to take us to the next level remains to be seen, but Efete has the potential.

One thing is for certain, we need to take Maher off throw-ins.

It’s simply not long enough to be effective & we lose his aerial threat as a byproduct of him taking the throw, in the first place!

The alternative is the endlessly shít and, almost entirely, ineffective scenario of needing one or two players within 5/10 yards of the thrower and having to work a small triangle in that tiny channel down the side. You end up losing the ball 9 times out of 10, and you’ve then got at least 2 players, if not three, immediately out of the game.

Cropper he might not be, but you only need one decent flick on or one defender to misjudge a header and you’ve a good chance of scoring.

If, and it's a big if, we could sign Josh Emmanuel, I'd go back to a back four and keep Cropper as second choice. For all Michee's pace, his football brain isn't on a par with his peers. Saturday was a prime example - on three occasions he burst into space, didn't know what to do and then passed it to Walsall. On several other occasions, in his defensive role he has stood an ball watched. Salford is a game that springs to mind.

Quoted from Mariner_09

Michee is a much better full back than Cropper. Cropper doesn't have anything like the athleticism, the physical presence, the attacking threat, ability to get us up the pitch or the goal threat that Michee has.

They're probably similar on the ball, Cropper is less prone to lapses and that throw in, in and of itself, is a massive threat and can be the point of difference in marginal games, as we all know. We wouldn't have got promoted without him, and, if he'd been fit, Hursty would've picked Michee over Cropper in the playoffs.

No shade on Efete here but had he done that I'm quite sure we'd be sat today as a National League side.

The difference in those play-offs was the goals from the long throw and I think they are an unbelievable asset for us. Wrexham paid 250k for Tozer and a huge part of that was for his long throw. I think we'd score more goals with Croppers throw than we'd concede through him playing right-back. Efete is better, but not that much better IMO

My impression of Efete, and possibly Cropper as well (based on him watching Tozer head home against us at Wrexham), is that
neither has good "defensive instincts" in moments of pressure.

Have mentioned this before - I can imagine Efete being more effective in a defensive midfield role (which Green does well though).
His aerial strength, pace and running seems well-suited to the position - and he'll have Luke Waterfall behind him bellowing at him
to help keep him tuned in.

Cropper is only 22, and I feel sure we wouldn't have won promotion from the NL without him. Which is quite a testimony for a
young player who's made only 10 appearences for the club. His long throw is a fearsome weapon.
If El General doesn't see him as a starter (and it looks that way), then the only role I could imagine for him would be a
'Parslow-in-reverse' supersub, who's brought on for the last 15 minutes when we're chasing the game. Not a bad option to have.

Don't think we've seen enough of Cropper to fairly compare the two of them, but I'd be happy with both in next season's squad.
I'd be happier still if we signed a quality right-back though. (Easy to say, I know)

UTM

Guaranteed to be an unpopular opinion but I'd give Efete a chance up front tbh, pacy, tall-ish, physical enough, can beat a man, scores occasionally from RB so I imagine could score more if based up top.  We have a few games with no meaning at the back end of the season, would be interesting to watch. Any lapses won't result in a scrambled defence.  I love watching the guy because he s pure entertainment, the only massive minus point I have with him is that he's often stood a yard or two deeper than the rest of the defence and playing opposition strikers onside - having said all that i'd be happy for him to continue as our firs choice RB/RWB/RCB next season

I think Efete has looked pretty good in a back 3 as he is decent in the air, is quick enough to help cover and has the option of pushing forward as well. As a wing-back, the general lack of quality from his crosses is a problem and he doesn't often take the right option when in advance positions (same can be said for many of our players, however). I'm not convinced he's at his best at right-back so it depends what formation we end up with next season. If we continue to play with wing-backs, I'd be happier to see him as one of the back 3 with a 'specialist' wing-back playing instead.

Regarding the long throws, I think Maher's isn't at all bad. The problem is our relative lack of height. Waterfall is our most dangerous header of the ball, but he's giving away two or three inches against some of the massive defenders we face most weeks and we don't have many others who can make themselves as much of a nuisance. Smith, Efete (and Maher) are all around the 6 foot mark but we don't have anyone near Dieseruvwe's level of height (6'5", I seem to think).

Quoted from Maringer

I think Efete has looked pretty good in a back 3 as he is decent in the air, is quick enough to help cover and has the option of pushing forward as well. As a wing-back, the general lack of quality from his crosses is a problem and he doesn't often take the right option when in advance positions (same can be said for many of our players, however). I'm not convinced he's at his best at right-back so it depends what formation we end up with next season. If we continue to play with wing-backs, I'd be happier to see him as one of the back 3 with a 'specialist' wing-back playing instead.

Regarding the long throws, I think Maher's isn't at all bad. The problem is our relative lack of height. Waterfall is our most dangerous header of the ball, but he's giving away two or three inches against some of the massive defenders we face most weeks and we don't have many others who can make themselves as much of a nuisance. Smith, Efete (and Maher) are all around the 6 foot mark but we don't have anyone near Dieseruvwe's level of height (6'5", I seem to think).

Mahers barely gets 2-3 yards into the box and isn’t delivered at pace, it wouldn’t be threatening even if we had that freak that played for Solihull up top.

Croppers is low, flat and fizzes in, it’s an absolute weapon.

Until Cropper can solve his fitness issues, Michee is the man in possession and has done enough to deserve the patience of the coaching staff.

That said, he really is a 'box of chocolates' and can be a strong, dependable caramel in a back three or just as unreliable in a back four as biting into a Turkish delight when you thought it was going to be a subtle rum truffle.

If Emmanuel moves on we have to look for better if we are to challenge for League one.

If it had to be a choice right now then it would have to be Cropper, not sure he has played that many games to see exactly how good a defender is but for his long throw and the fact that Efete just hasn't got the concentration to be a good defender, countless times he goes missing leaving the man he is supposed to be marking.

Probably need a better full back than both of them.

Would keep Michee for next year as a back up/ can play back 3. Not good enough to be starting out in a back 4 or in the wing-back role for me and must aim for better next year should we want to be at the business end of the table. The lad from Newport who's name escapes me (Norman?) looks like one of the best I've seen play that wing-back role. Efete got his criticism for his form early in the season when I believe he was devoid of confidence and we simply had nobody to replace him.. Cropper unfortunately I believe will be released as he was limited as a footballer even in the NL and the step up we've seen to L2 will be too much for him

Quoted from Mariner_09

Michee is a much better full back than Cropper. Cropper doesn't have anything like the athleticism, the physical presence, the attacking threat, ability to get us up the pitch or the goal threat that Michee has.

They're probably similar on the ball, Cropper is less prone to lapses and that throw in, in and of itself, is a massive threat and can be the point of difference in marginal games, as we all know. We wouldn't have got promoted without him, and, if he'd been fit, Hursty would've picked Michee over Cropper in the playoffs.

Cropper is built like a body builder, not sure why you’d think he has less of a physical presence.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Mahers barely gets 2-3 yards into the box and isn’t delivered at pace, it wouldn’t be threatening even if we had that freak that played for Solihull up top.

Croppers is low, flat and fizzes in, it’s an absolute weapon.

He set up a goal for Barnet against County the other week and it was nearly at the back post before it was at a height someone could reach! He wasn't even in line with the penalty area either. Unbelievable.

I don’t think you can answer the OP question as we’ve not really seen Cropper at L2 level

Not sure it some people aren't aware, talking about whether they would keep Michee or not- he is under contract for next year so he will be here. it'll be very interesting to see how much he can improve over the next 14 months with us. He's just turned 26 so a year or two off his peak

To challenge at the top end of league 2 I would suggest that we need better than either of them.

Efete has decent strength, mobility, and gets us up the pitch, and is decent enough for a mid table team.

For me, you take away Croppers throw and he was simply an average journeyman conference player. Whilst that throw is a hell of a weapon, it’s not enough to justify a starting place.

Last season all of our fullbacks allowed far too many crosses into the box, and I felt that upgrades were needed on both sides. I still think that’s the case this summer.

Michee had a torrid first half of the season but since has grown into league football.
I slated him earlier in the season but now I think he’s doing well.

Quoted from ska face

The alternative is the endlessly shít and, almost entirely, ineffective scenario of needing one or two players within 5/10 yards of the thrower and having to work a small triangle in that tiny channel down the side. You end up losing the ball 9 times out of 10, and you’ve then got at least 2 players, if not three, immediately out of the game.

Cropper he might not be, but you only need one decent flick on or one defender to misjudge a header and you’ve a good chance of scoring.

On Saturday, he threw one to the feet of Green (I think it was), at the near post, and it led to McAtee hammering a shot just over the bar. I agree that the feet and back throw in very rarely seems to work, so throw it in the box and see what happens when we are anywhere near the goal, or long down the line when we aren't.

On the point of the thread, I'd swap them both for Norman at Newport. He was a cut above.

Quoted from ginnywings

On Saturday, he threw one to the feet of Green (I think it was), at the near post, and it led to McAtee hammering a shot just over the bar. I agree that the feet and back throw in very rarely seems to work, so throw it in the box and see what happens when we are anywhere near the goal, or long down the line when we aren't.

On the point of the thread, I'd swap them both for Norman at Newport. He was a cut above.

I thought Malarkey looked better than what we currently have the other week when we played Rochdale

Nit sure what contract he signed there in Jan but could see why we were linked with him before Emmanuel signed

Few comments along the lines of Cropper wouldn't be half as good if he didn't have his throw, or his throw is his best attribute.  

The point is though that he has that attribute.  Waterfall would be pretty average if he didn't have his aerial presence, Clifton bang average without his engine etc. etc....

It's a flipping monster attribute and then some.  If we had someone capable of delivering free-kicks and corners capable of creating that level of panic and opportunity we would expect to see them in the side more often than not.  How many dangerous free-kicks and corners do you get per game, compared to throw-ins that are in the range where Cropper can put them in the mixer?

I don't think he's as good in the purest terms of a full-back as Efete or Emmanuel, he certainly doesn't get up and down the line as well as them and I doubt he would be zipping past people to put crosses in.  But I think you have to weigh up what he brings as assets.  

Oddly, I always thought he would be better served as a right sided centre back than Efete.   I don't think Hurst will look to keep him, which is a shame.  If he did though, I think he would be better suited as the right of a three rather than an out-and-out full back.

Think it's fair to say Hurst knows his right backs, n Michee has played 75 games for us since signing.Cropper has played 10, n Hurst has shown no inclination to bring in another f.b. over the 3 windows.
Think that tells us all we need to know on what PH thinks of Michee. Just wish we could get a sports pyschologist to get hold of him. I'd sure itd work wonders

I would keep Cropper. As we saw in the playoffs, Those throw ins can turn a game. Great option to have off the bench.

If you think we find croppers long throws useful/a dangerous weapon, what do you think those sides towering over us at set pieces would make of him?

I think (unfortunately) he will go elsewhere in league 2 next season as I don't think we will retain him. Hurst showed no inclination to use him as a sub even for a game like hartlepool away, were michee had been given the freedom of the park by the oppo and did nothing with it. Even when we were chasing the game in the last few minutes he persevered with what hadn't worked when we had space nevermind when they were defending,rather than bring on cropper. Probably as much because he fears other teams height and so wants to retain michee for defending set pieces. I'd say got for it the other way round and pressure them at any throw by getting cropper on.

They both have a different set of core attributes, and you would expect Cropper to be a much more defensive full back than Efete, meaning any attacks down the right need to come from someone else, but you would accommodate that because of his incredible long throw.

I actually like Efete inside at RCB in a back 3. I can't recall seeing Cropper sprint to comment on how fast he is but I also think he could do a job in a back 3. The thing is with Cropper, you can make some allowances providing he's solid because of that incredible long throw.

Cropper has the best long throw I have ever seen live, not only does he get distance on it, but he is incredibly accurate and I love seeing defenders hesitating about whether they should concede a throw or corner.

Quoted from forza ivano

Think it's fair to say Hurst knows his right backs, n Michee has played 75 games for us since signing.Cropper has played 10, n Hurst has shown no inclination to bring in another f.b. over the 3 windows.
Think that tells us all we need to know on what PH thinks of Michee. Just wish we could get a sports pyschologist to get hold of him. I'd sure itd work wonders

I hadn't realised Efete had played 75 games for us. Based on that I would have thought he would have developed more to approach and compete with Lg2 football.

If we want to be challenging next season, Cropper is just not good enough, he won't be retained. He's too injury prone, and unfortunately for him hasn't been able to prove him at league 2, let alone the top end of league 2.

His long throws are a weapon, but a weapon better suited to the NL IMO. His long throws in the outstanding play-off run will be remembered for years to come, but it strikes me as a similar case to JMD. A player whose ultimately not cut-out for league football, but will do a decent job in the NL, although saying that, JMD hasn't helped Yeovil all that much.

We have to push the boat out this summer, and for me, that is targeting the Emmanuels of the (league 2) world.

About time we had an Efete bashing thread eh? Some of you lot are clueless. Stats show he's among the best five right backs in the division, Hurst plays him when he's fit more than any other outfield player. You chase him out of the club, trust me, you'll be missing his pace, power, stamina, energy and aerial ability down our right. He's not perfect, but then who is in our League Two squad.

As for Cropper, National League standard player with a long throw. We need better and need not to rely on long throws from a footballing perspective, the play-offs were a one off. And as for Emmanuel.. I've seen enough to offer him another contract, but in no way do his performances so far this season mean he's nailed on to have a flood of offers from League One.

A lot of you made up your minds about Efete when he had a bad spell in the autumn and are sticking with it despite many outstanding performances since. My guess is that Hurst will offer him a one year contract extension on top of the year he's got left, but he may get poached by a League One club or a top end League Two team.

Before you all wet your knickers, let's wait and see until the summer. Bookmark this, and if I'm wrong, get on your high horses then..

Disgraceful amount of relentless stick he's had this season, he's one of our own players, and one of the better ones. Some of you should hang your heads in shame..

Quoted from Bigdog

About time we had an Efete bashing thread eh? Some of you lot are clueless. Stats show he's among the best five right backs in the division, Hurst plays him when he's fit more than any other outfield player. You chase him out of the club, trust me, you'll be missing his pace, power, stamina, energy and aerial ability down our right. He's not perfect, but then who is in our League Two squad.

As for Cropper, National League standard player with a long throw. We need better and need not to rely on long throws from a footballing perspective, the play-offs were a one off. And as for Emmanuel.. I've seen enough to offer him another contract, but in no way do his performances so far this season mean he's nailed on to have a flood of offers from League One.

A lot of you made up your minds about Efete when he had a bad spell in the autumn and are sticking with it despite many outstanding performances since. My guess is that Hurst will offer him a one year contract extension on top of the year he's got left, but he may get poached by a League One club or a top end League Two team.

Before you all wet your knickers, let's wait and see until the summer. Bookmark this, and if I'm wrong, get on your high horses then..

Disgraceful amount of relentless stick he's had this season, he's one of our own players, and one of the better ones. Some of you should hang your heads in shame..

I am a big critic of efete, but I believe a fair one, I totally agree with your description of how we would miss his pace, power, stamina, energy and ability in the air. But I think its telling that his biggest proponent lists all his best attributes as physical ones and none of them include ability with the ball.

He's a phenomenal athlete, with a footballing ability at lower level NL at best. His athleticism can make up for some of his limitations with the ball, but not all. We can play in a way that makes the most of his style too to help but ultimately if we are going for top 7 we'll need better quality width than he offers if he's RB or especially RWB. If he is right sided centre back that's different and I think that role suits him better.

well if the stats say he's one of the best r.b.'s in the div (& remember it's his first year in the FL) and Hurst continues to pick him, then that will do for me.
I also think he has come apace since we switched to a back 3

Quoted from Bigdog

About time we had an Efete bashing thread eh? Some of you lot are clueless. Stats show he's among the best five right backs in the division, Hurst plays him when he's fit more than any other outfield player. You chase him out of the club, trust me, you'll be missing his pace, power, stamina, energy and aerial ability down our right. He's not perfect, but then who is in our League Two squad.

As for Cropper, National League standard player with a long throw. We need better and need not to rely on long throws from a footballing perspective, the play-offs were a one off. And as for Emmanuel.. I've seen enough to offer him another contract, but in no way do his performances so far this season mean he's nailed on to have a flood of offers from League One.

A lot of you made up your minds about Efete when he had a bad spell in the autumn and are sticking with it despite many outstanding performances since. My guess is that Hurst will offer him a one year contract extension on top of the year he's got left, but he may get poached by a League One club or a top end League Two team.

Before you all wet your knickers, let's wait and see until the summer. Bookmark this, and if I'm wrong, get on your high horses then..

Disgraceful amount of relentless stick he's had this season, he's one of our own players, and one of the better ones. Some of you should hang your heads in shame..

There are lies, damned lies and statistics!
It's all down to opinions but I can't see Efete being poached by a League 1 side. Criticism of a player isn't the same as ' relentless stick'. Efete has his faults, like most players at this level, but that doesn't mean we , as fans, aren't entitled to highlight them.

Quoted from Mariner_09

Michee is a much better full back than Cropper. Cropper doesn't have anything like the athleticism, the physical presence, the attacking threat, ability to get us up the pitch or the goal threat that Michee has.

They're probably similar on the ball, Cropper is less prone to lapses and that throw in, in and of itself, is a massive threat and can be the point of difference in marginal games, as we all know. We wouldn't have got promoted without him, and, if he'd been fit, Hursty would've picked Michee over Cropper in the playoffs.

You can't say Michee has better attacking threat and ability to get us up the pitch but ignore the fact that Croppers throw in does both of them better. That throw means we can pack the oppositions box for a relatively accurate throw rather than a hopeful cross.
I expect to see him return from Barnet and may feature in some of our remaining games. Young enough to improve but injuries a concern.