Carlisle sell out?

Half a dozen empty in a row next to me in the middle of the Upper and quite a few empty dotted around up there.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I think the big issue there Chris is that the number of seats sold isn't, at the minute, represented by the number of bums on seats. To be honest it never completely will be either.

There's hundreds of season ticket holders who won't get to every game, especially midweek games.  But at the minute we don't have a system that's either good enough nor enough of an incentive to get the majority of people to put those seats back on sale.

I'm gonna guesstimate here a bit but I reckon there was probably a good 400-500 seats last night that were never going to be occupied, sold to a season ticket holder but never put back into the sale system.  That needs addressing.  It follows on from another thread that you've got empty seats with decent views yet people are only left with restricted seats to purchase.  

I'm of the firm belief and in full agreement with you that we're in need of development and expansion of our capacity.  But the real evidence of it when we've consistently got a lack of empty seats at games. Otherwise it's a bit of a false economy.  I know the argument is that a sold seat is money in the coffers, but by ignoring the fall-off rate we're limited our potential to grow beyond this 8,000/9,000 ceiling.

Absolutely, there will always be STH who can't make games and people who buy tickets only for things to change last minute and I'm sure everyone would accept that as a fact whether we were in BP or a brand new 50,000 shiny stadium.

But for me it's not necessarily about money in the coffers, it's the fact that people have bought the tickets. Whether they turn up is irrelevant, all bar 26 seats were purchased, demonstrating that we have an audience of people seemingly wanting to come and support GTFC. I wasn't one of them last night but ordinarily I would have been and with others possibly on holiday there's potential that - with better weather included - the demand could outstrip the supply.

The acid test for me will come in the winter months. Will we still see the same need to open the Osmond or will gates taper off as the weather deteriorates? Hence the wonder whether 1878 will be looking at a full season of data before making decisions on what to do, or will they look at the fact we're effectively selling out (by virtue of no tickets available - not how many actually turn up) and judging that unlike years gone by the support for the Club is sufficient enough to take a step forward in future planning ground improvements (large scale - not minor repairs like replacing broken seats) or even ground moves.

Much as there are seems to be some little issues with tickets and how/when they become available, so long as we learn quickly then it's a great problem to have. Getting those things ironed out making it a smoother process will aid in keeping people coming.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I think the big issue there Chris is that the number of seats sold isn't, at the minute, represented by the number of bums on seats. To be honest it never completely will be either.

There's hundreds of season ticket holders who won't get to every game, especially midweek games.  But at the minute we don't have a system that's either good enough nor enough of an incentive to get the majority of people to put those seats back on sale.

I'm gonna guesstimate here a bit but I reckon there was probably a good 400-500 seats last night that were never going to be occupied, sold to a season ticket holder but never put back into the sale system.  That needs addressing.  It follows on from another thread that you've got empty seats with decent views yet people are only left with restricted seats to purchase.  

I'm of the firm belief and in full agreement with you that we're in need of development and expansion of our capacity.  But the real evidence of it when we've consistently got a lack of empty seats at games. Otherwise it's a bit of a false economy.  I know the argument is that a sold seat is money in the coffers, but by ignoring the fall-off rate we're limited our potential to grow beyond this 8,000/9,000 ceiling.

A sell out is when there are no tickets left for anyone to buy. That is where we are now . Irrelevant whether season ticket holders turn up or not . If there are no tickets left for it chase and you can’t get one it’s irrelevant to you that there are some empty seats in the ground.

It’d be nice to get numbers on any resales just for transparency also, but going back to something mentioned earlier in thread - the powers that be do need to look at the 1878 membership issue, ie paying money but then getting left with seats with limited views, whilst others can purchase later get better option. Surely the point of a membership is to be considered favourably..particularly as those whom are members presumably have a lot of outgoings due to location? I’d imagine most travel to watch home games, never mind away. Maybe it’s something the club could look at and revisit..?

Of course it's relevant.

By deeming it irrelevant the club are closing shop on anything other than the 1000 or so seats in the home end that don't have a reserved sticker on them.

Even a 10% no-show rate equates to over 500 tickets, with a resale value as low as £10 that's a potential additional income stream of £5k, not to mention any additional purchases.

How many times do people find that they can't get a ticket (despite seats sitting empty during the game) before they give up trying and find something else to do with their time/money?

Quoted from diehardmariner

Of course it's relevant.

By deeming it irrelevant the club are closing shop on anything other than the 1000 or so seats in the home end that don't have a reserved sticker on them.

Even a 10% no-show rate equates to over 500 tickets, with a resale value as low as £10 that's a potential additional income stream of £5k, not to mention any additional purchases.

How many times do people find that they can't get a ticket (despite seats sitting empty during the game) before they give up trying and find something else to do with their time/money?

The answer is for the club to provide more seats not selling the same ones twice. You will never get more then a small percentage of the non attendees to release them for resale when there is no direct incentive to do so.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Of course it's relevant.

By deeming it irrelevant the club are closing shop on anything other than the 1000 or so seats in the home end that don't have a reserved sticker on them.

Even a 10% no-show rate equates to over 500 tickets, with a resale value as low as £10 that's a potential additional income stream of £5k, not to mention any additional purchases.

How many times do people find that they can't get a ticket (despite seats sitting empty during the game) before they give up trying and find something else to do with their time/money?

So you're looking at it from the perspective that determination of a sell-out is that every seat has a bum on it?

It has a degree of logic to it but to fulfil that criterion would be nigh on impossible!! If a STH only figures they can't attend a game in the morning, does that STH need to declare it, get it up for re-sale and then be sold to factor into a positive data count?

If 100 STH hand back their seats, but only as singles dotted around the Upper (for example), how many people will take them up as singles if you're looking at either a family, group of friends or couple wanting to attend. We've seen that seats do sell as singles, but what we can't quantify in this scenario is how many people have not bought tickets because they can't get a group of 2/3/4 together? We're proving we can sell tickets with what happens to be available without any known data on how many have not purchased owing to limitations of availability. It could be minimal, it could be quite considerable.

The attendance and number of tickets sold gives us the no-show data but the definition of sell out has to come from the availability of tickets surely...?

This isn’t rocket science and it needs sorting asap - other clubs have schemes up and running including Lincoln. We need it more than other clubs though - that is because a significant number of seats at BP are simply not fit for purpose. This is the No. 1 priority for Trust to raise with GTFC.

Just out of curiosity ....if the away end was full .....and all home tickets where sold ......then 2000 season ticket holders couldn't make it and all made their seats available for resale ......and everyone sold .......would the club declare a 11k attendance for a 9k capacity crowd stadium ..........?

Adding additional capacity is required. For me, it's not about todays income, it's about 5, 10, 20 years time. My availability is limited and if I can't take my kids on the rare occasions I can go, who can blame them if they don't support Town in 10 years time?

The kids can't go with grandparents as there isn't a single season ticket available near them. It's a great problem for the club to have but they also need to think about keeping those interested who can't go as often as others.