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jolly the poor workman

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denni266
October 13, 2019, 8:39am Report to Moderator

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I think you should step back and take a look in the mirror Mr Jolly.. You blame the team for playing bad... take a look at how you set them up with one slow center mid on one wing .. he didnt stand a chance . and another  center mid / striker on the other wing .. played a fullback on the wrong side.. dropped another better full back for what reason ???????... You find a winning formula and change it  every time.. That was a disgrace yesterday what you sent out to play and you blame them.. we are not as thick as you think we are . stop playing your fav players and play them that work.. Look over your shoulder because Hurst is coming to overtake you , and it will be them that have a look at who is below us again thread
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Son of Cod
October 13, 2019, 9:58am Report to Moderator
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At least get his flipping name right.
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WOZOFGRIMSBY
October 13, 2019, 10:02am Report to Moderator

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Centre.....not center (unless you are a yanker)

I can understand you feel aggrieved, we all do as supporters. I wasn't even there and I get p1ssed off. But, the manager made the decision, the result has gone, and, hopefully, the troops regroup and we get a more positive result against Leyton orient next week.



“To put it in gentleman’s terms if you’ve been out for a night and you’re looking for a young lady and you pull one, some weeks they’re good looking and some weeks they’re not the best. Our performance today would have been not the best looking bird but at least we got her in the taxi. She weren’t the best looking lady we ended up taking home but she was very pleasant and very nice, so thanks very much, let’s have a coffee”
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Northbank Mariner
October 13, 2019, 10:12am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY
Centre.....not center (unless you are a yanker)

I can understand you feel aggrieved, we all do as supporters. I wasn't even there and I get p1ssed off. But, the manager made the decision, the result has gone, and, hopefully, the troops regroup and we get a more positive result against Leyton orient next week.


Unfortunately Woz, whilst I see where you are coming from they(the management) have had 2 games since the Mansfield loss to get the group going again and fell short both times ..
As we know winning is a confidence thing, early on in the those first few games there was a buzz running through the squad and the town but I feel after these last 3 games, albeit one in the tinpot cup, the performances have dropped below an acceptable level, so now to get that winning mentality back into the group is fast becoming an uphill battle, unless MJ & Co can turn this round next Saturday/Tuesday then I actually fear we'll be slipping down that table at an alarming rate of knots..
God knows I want this team/squad/manager to succeed but any early optimism I had is quickly ebbing away...
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Lincoln Mariner 56
October 13, 2019, 10:17am Report to Moderator
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Actually, despite Denni’s known opposition to MJ, the majority of this post is correct and difficult to argue with,

Defensively we have options but Gibson deserves to be playing at the minute and on current form Hewitt is playing better than Hendrie although I am comfortable with whichever of these players right back. Waterfall has proved a decent signing and again Davis or Pollock alongside him should give us a decent back four.

Going forwards MJ needs to identify his plan A, with most of us wanting pace at the forefront of this, and Plan B, which should be making use of Hanson’s aerial ability. Of course with the right selection Plan A will incorporate Plan B but with crosses from the byline or at least alongside the penalty area rather than from deep as at present.

Midfield is a problem but Hess is a must and whilst Robson a little inconsistent he should be on the left and I would put Clifton in. Again Harry not had best start to the season but he has high energy levels, gets around the pitch and should be encouraged to get in the opposition box more often.

Up front Wright is a must when fit but who else? Rose and Ogbu did the business at Exeter so this formation should be tried again. That would mean omitting Hanson and Green which after 5 games into the season would be unthinkable but it is a squad game and all players will get there chance and if Hanson gets the nod before Ogbu I would like to see Rose playing alongside Hanson rather than our current policy of deploying our front three across the pitch and totally isolated from each other.

A decision also needs to be made on Vernam, flatters to deceive IMO, but if he is to stay with the club he needs a run of games and if town are not going to provide this get him out on loan, with Cardwell, to try and build their confidence.

In closing I would reiterate what I said last week we are two quality L2 players, one in midfield and one up front, from having a very competitive team at this level. What we also need is an ability to take the game to the opposition and not rely on counter attacks, particularly at home.

The remainder of this season will demonstrate if MJ has that ability we all want him to possess and there is improvements this season, but our historical ability to gift 3 points to teams having bad runs still continues as per results at Salford and Stevenage and a miracle escape at Oldham.

Still lots to work on but foundations are in place.
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golfer
October 13, 2019, 10:31am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from denni266
I think you should step back and take a look in the mirror Mr Jolly.. You blame the team for playing bad... take a look at how you set them up with one slow center mid on one wing .. he didnt stand a chance . and another  center mid / striker on the other wing .. played a fullback on the wrong side.. dropped another better full back for what reason ???????... You find a winning formula and change it  every time.. That was a disgrace yesterday what you sent out to play and you blame them.. we are not as thick as you think we are . stop playing your fav players and play them that work.. Look over your shoulder because Hurst is coming to overtake you , and it will be them that have a look at who is below us again thread


Agree with the first 3 lines but the rest is bollllox
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denni266
October 13, 2019, 10:54am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from golfer


Agree with the first 3 lines but the rest is bollllox


you are entitled to your opinion  
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grimsby pete
October 13, 2019, 11:29am Report to Moderator

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The main thing about yesterday was we made a team that was bottom of the league without a win to.their name look fairly good yet only two weeks ago we beat the team that was top of the lesgue.

I like MJ but he will never make it as a. Manager unless he discovers L2  players can not adapt to playing a different formation every week they are playing L2 for a reason and no forward thinking idea's from a manager with high qualifications can turn them into something they are not.

He has got a decent squad of players that can do a good job if he plays them in their best positions and we will have a bit of success this season if he stops changing things from week to week or he will just lose the great fans that follow this club all over the country because he will just keep doing the same old thing of winning a few followed by losing a few and constantly  disappointing the faithful.


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Maringer
October 13, 2019, 11:46am Report to Moderator
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I don't mind the Plan A of using Hanson too much. The problem is that we just don't play it well enough. The service in to him is terrible and we don't have players around him to pick up the pieces because the midfield are deep and we're lacking in pace. I think Jolley was hoping for a Hanson/Green partnership to really click but it has been the opposite as they are rarely close enough to each other to link up.
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The Old Codger
October 13, 2019, 11:52am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Maringer
I don't mind the Plan A of using Hanson too much. The problem is that we just don't play it well enough. The service in to him is terrible and we don't have players around him to pick up the pieces because the midfield are deep and we're lacking in pace. I think Jolley was hoping for a Hanson/Green partnership to really click but it has been the opposite as they are rarely close enough to each other to link up.


I was really impressed with Green's workrate in the first few home games but that's about where it ends with him isn't it? He doesn't have the pace of Ogbu, Wright, Rose or even Vernam and we've watched enough L2 and non league football over the last 10 years to know how lower league defenders struggle with attackers with pace. Play with Hanson as a fulcrum by all means but play the right players round him!
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
October 13, 2019, 12:45pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Maringer
I don't mind the Plan A of using Hanson too much. The problem is that we just don't play it well enough. The service in to him is terrible and we don't have players around him to pick up the pieces because the midfield are deep and we're lacking in pace. I think Jolley was hoping for a Hanson/Green partnership to really click but it has been the opposite as they are rarely close enough to each other to link up.


If I was Hanson I would be quite pi55ed off with the lack of service. Like you I can see the uses of a line leader who will not be bullied in the box. But you have to, you MUST get quality crosses into the box for him. A mixture of the Wright breakaway speed plus Hanson’s heading would be almost unstoppable in this league. Agree about Green but I think he is playing to orders and will be as pi55ed off as Hanson.

But the top and bottom of this inconsistency is in the word itself. If you have inconsistent tactics, inconsistent team selection then you get inconsistent performances. We were told when he cam how intelligent Jolley is but as far as the basics of winning games and building a successful team system is concerned he and his mate have been found lacking. Laptops do not get you pitch points, only Powerpoints.



"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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devs
October 13, 2019, 12:46pm Report to Moderator
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I think we fall between two stools due to the selection
Neither a fast, slick passing team or an effective and direct long ball team
It's sort of "Let's lump it up there and see what happens...play on the hoof...bits and pieces...flicks...
But is leads to directionless and sloppy football
Players out of position; widemen in the centre of the pitch and vice versa; left backs at right back and vice versa

You have to decide MJ - show some balls IMO and be prepared to 'drop' Hanson, Green and Whitehouse (especially when Max is fit again)

Teams evolve and something that looked OK in first 2/3 weeks is not always the way forward - the Exeter game for me was very telling and revealing

Front payers in their natural positions; a great midfield balance; Pollock!;

I think we have the players; I think we have the squad

But Green and Whitehouse (poss Hanson - the fear is if he plays we go long too easily and often) are part of Plan B - on the bench

But above all decide what we are Michael - long ball or a passing team...from the first whistle!
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moosey_club
October 13, 2019, 1:18pm Report to Moderator
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whichever side of the fence you sit on regards yesterday's 70 mins non performance lets not forget the display against Mansfield was as poor and therefore changes to the starting 11 were probably required.
Whether the changes following the win at Exeter were needed for the Mansfield game is another issue though.



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chiangmaimariner
October 13, 2019, 1:53pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from moosey_club
whichever side of the fence you sit on regards yesterday's 70 mins non performance lets not forget the display against Mansfield was as poor and therefore changes to the starting 11 were probably required.
Whether the changes following the win at Exeter were needed for the Mansfield game is another issue though.


I can't easily understand why you would want to change a side - that had just won away at the hitherto
unbeaten league leaders - against a lower-ranked team at home. You can think too much...


If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
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golfer
October 13, 2019, 2:14pm Report to Moderator
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If I was Hanson I would be quite pi55ed off with the lack of service. Like you I can see the uses of a line leader who will not be bullied in the box. But you have to, you MUST get quality crosses into the box for him. A mixture of the Wright breakaway speed plus Hanson’s heading would be almost unstoppable in this league. Agree about Green but I think he is playing to orders and will be as pi55ed off as Hanson.

But the top and bottom of this inconsistency is in the word itself. If you have inconsistent tactics, inconsistent team selection then you get inconsistent performances. We were told when he cam how intelligent Jolley is but as far as the basics of winning games and building a successful team system is concerned he and his mate have been found lacking. Laptops do not get you pitch points, only Powerpoints.


I have 8 O-Levels     3 A Levels  and a degree  I might be intelligent but this doesn't make me an intelligent football manager. If you look at some of the thicko's who are highly paid managers it certainly points to the fact that intelligence in FOOTBALL and not necessarily anything else is the main factor in football success. Maybe certain people need to improve their intelligence in the field that they are employed in. If you learn by your mistakes all well and good but you have to be intelligent enough to realise what those mistakes are.
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Yoda
October 13, 2019, 2:21pm Report to Moderator
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I think MJ is floundering his team selections are bad, we have zero pace and his main plan is to lump it up to Hanson.

I fear he’s on one of his bad runs again.!
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GrimRob
October 13, 2019, 2:31pm Report to Moderator

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I do wonder whether he picked too strong a team for the Sunderland game. Hewitt, Whitehouse, Cook, Davis and Green all played the full 90 in that game. All three subbed players played the full 90 at the SOL. Would they have been better being fresher for the match that mattered?


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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HertsGTFC
October 13, 2019, 2:42pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from GrimRob
I do wonder whether he picked too strong a team for the Sunderland game. Hewitt, Whitehouse, Cook, Davis and Green all played the full 90 in that game. All three subbed players played the full 90 at the SOL. Would they have been better being fresher for the match that mattered?


100% this IMHO.

The frustrating thing is that we seem to find a formula and then discard it. Also we insist on going ariel to Hanson when he’s just as much of a handful when you play it into him on the ground.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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Northbank Mariner
October 13, 2019, 2:47pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from HertsGTFC


100% this IMHO.

The frustrating thing is that we seem to find a formula and then discard it. Also we insist on going ariel to Hanson when he’s just as much of a handful when you play it into him on the ground.


Going to out this to you, could it be that Macca, who is becoming a club legend, is slightly at fault for this??...
Lll and Monkhouse spring to mind, the fact JM can't help but lump it out to the big man??...
Maybe, just maybe he needs to be told to move the ball quicker and play out through the midfield rather than resorting to route 1...just think the temptation is too much for him....
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The Old Codger
October 13, 2019, 3:30pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner


Going to out this to you, could it be that Macca, who is becoming a club legend, is slightly at fault for this??...
Lll and Monkhouse spring to mind, the fact JM can't help but lump it out to the big man??...
Maybe, just maybe he needs to be told to move the ball quicker and play out through the midfield rather than resorting to route 1...just think the temptation is too much for him....


Agree with this - though I would add that it's not Hanson that's the problem, it's the players selected around him.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
October 13, 2019, 3:33pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner


Going to out this to you, could it be that Macca, who is becoming a club legend, is slightly at fault for this??...
Lll and Monkhouse spring to mind, the fact JM can't help but lump it out to the big man??...
Maybe, just maybe he needs to be told to move the ball quicker and play out through the midfield rather than resorting to route 1...just think the temptation is too much for him....



He takes the percentage option. When he was younger he used to get a lot of stick for putting the ball out, giving the ball away or giving hospital passes to the midfield with a throw or a shorter kick. Nowadays he seems to take the long option more often than not because it is less likely to cause him trouble even if it goes wrong and we lose possession from it. If it goes right - he’s a hero!


"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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Son of Cod
October 13, 2019, 5:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Maringer
I don't mind the Plan A of using Hanson too much. The problem is that we just don't play it well enough. The service in to him is terrible and we don't have players around him to pick up the pieces because the midfield are deep and we're lacking in pace. I think Jolley was hoping for a Hanson/Green partnership to really click but it has been the opposite as they are rarely close enough to each other to link up.

The service was decent in August I thought, when both Hendrie and Hewitt were playing. If you look at Hanson's record too, he always seems do well in August and then have a dip like this. Another thing worth mentioning as well is that if you speak to any Mansfield or Lincoln they all seem to agree Green is way better in a two up front and not a three.
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golfer
October 13, 2019, 6:48pm Report to Moderator
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He takes the percentage option. When he was younger he used to get a lot of stick for putting the ball out, giving the ball away or giving hospital passes to the midfield with a throw or a shorter kick. Nowadays he seems to take the long option more often than not because it is less likely to cause him trouble even if it goes wrong and we lose possession from it. If it goes right - he’s a hero!


Maybe he's obeying orders
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Northbank Mariner
October 13, 2019, 6:52pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from golfer


Maybe he's obeying orders


Well, as Captain he should take the bull by the horns and ignore them if he can see lumping it up just ain't working, that's his role!!
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WokingMariner
October 13, 2019, 7:05pm Report to Moderator

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The other teams have figured out how to nullify out threat. We need to evolve.


Up the Mighty Mariners
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chaos33
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Original post in this thread from a serial moaner pretty embarrassing, especially the misspelling of our manager’s name.

Anyway, which manager was it who recently said ‘Grimsby have a bit of everything’? That’s good. We just need to be smarter at deploying it. The glaring issue for me, is if our Plan A revolves around crosses to Hanson, then we surely must be playing with some width and working on delivery and set pieces. For me the team is often not  set up to prioritise this. One natural attacking wide player in the squad looks like a management oversight to me. It seems to be fairly evident after this number of games that we are probably going to be a middling sort of team. Better than being strugglers but I think we could be making much better use off what we’ve got at times.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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mariner91
October 13, 2019, 8:15pm Report to Moderator
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My main gripe with Jolley is it takes him so long to learn from mistakes. How many times does he play players in positions they aren't suited to before he stops doing it? Even when it's blindingly obvious to most of us. I also think he's guilty of massively over-complicating matches. If you go away to an unbeaten, top of the table team and beat them 3-1 those tactics are just because you prepared for that game. Bearing in mind we are the only team to beat Exeter so far this season, it is likely that those tactics will cause most teams some problems. Perhaps not as many problems as it caused Exeter, but problems none the less. But he seems to want to set up differently for every game and base all his tactics on what they might do, not what will help us. When he does this, it completely backfires. Although to be honest, I can't even see what the thinking was behind the tactics yesterday. Suffice to say, if you struggle to do anything against the worst team in the FL then you have got it pretty spectacularly wrong.

His squad building has again left a lot to be desired. We have a player in Hanson who would thrive off good deliveries from high up the pitch yet we have only one out and out recognised player winger in the squad. I don't think we would necessarily have to ditch 4-3-3 to get the best out of Hanson but shoe-horning Green out wide plus having no pace in the forward line limits the amount of times you can create the space out wide to cross in. Having said that, one of the players who would seem more naturally suited to this sort of game, Vernam, has seemingly been frozen out. He's not a winger as such but he's fairly quick and would be a more natural choice than Green to play that role. He's also one of a very few players in the squad with the ability to go past his man. In the first half yesterday we didn't even attempt to dribble past anyone, let alone do it successfully. That is shocking against a side that only 5 points to their name a quarter of the way through the season.

Personally I would go back to a similar set up to what worked well around Christmas last year, playing a 4-2-3-1. The defence is fairly solid but now Gibson has found form he has to be the starting left back, another inexplicable and inexcusable tinkering. In front of the defence I'd have Hess with probably Robson but if you wanted Robson higher up the pitch then Clifton. Hanson as the forward and focal point but try to use his feet rather than aimless hoofs to him. Then just behind Hanson I'd have Ogbu or Cook who are instructed to get in and around Hanson for lay offs or beyond him if we long (which is sometimes an option, just not the way we do it as a default). On the right Wright picks himself when fit and on the left I'd have Ogbu, Rose or Vernam. This would give us a bit more pace in the starting eleven but if we're getting overrun it could turn in to a more compact 4-5-1 or a 4-4-2 quite easily but would still have enough pace to make us dangerous on the counter.

                  Macca
Hewitt  Waterfall  Pollock  Gibson
             Hess     Robson
Wright        Ogbu             Rose
                Hanson
Would leave you with Vernam, Green and Cook as players on the bench who could come on and potentially change things. Let's mix our play up, ditch the aimless hoofs and try to have some sort of consistent approach rather than worrying so much about the opposition. Tweak things to counter them by all means but not wholesale changes every couple of weeks.


Grimsby till I die.
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quebec38
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Yep Jolley loves to try and counter teams it seems rather than try and impose ourselves on the opposition which is a shame. We are blessed with some decent players now and I think it’s time he decided what his best 11 is and stuck with it for a bit.
There aren’t many better full backs in the division than Hendrie and it’s time to stop messing him about. He should be number one right back. Gibson on the left. Centre half is a difficult one and I think you could make a good argument for all of them.
Hess is probably first name on the team sheet and rightly so. He needs at least one partner that can pick a pass so Robson needs to be in there. Clifton has played midfield when we have been on our best runs over the last couple of years (and worst). He takes third spot.
Front three has to be Wright, Hanson and one other. As mentioned by someone previously, the squad assembly isn’t the best again so it has to be a square ish peg on the left. So one of Rose, Green, Ogbu or Vernam. Vernam deserves a go surely now. At one point he was the only shining light and now he barely gets any opportunities.
A Ben Pringle or such like on loan is a must ASAP.
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KingstonMariner
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As for Jolley changing things unecessarily, well with an injury to Wright last week, change was forced on him. As we don't have a like-for-like replacement we had to make other changes to the team.   Sometimes I just think footballers are a bit slow mentally. You don't need to be an out and out winger to know that when you have the ball on the flank and any opposition players are several yards away from you, you move forward, not look to pass it sideways or back.


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The Old Codger
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
As for Jolley changing things unecessarily, well with an injury to Wright last week, change was forced on him. As we don't have a like-for-like replacement we had to make other changes to the team.   Sometimes I just think footballers are a bit slow mentally. You don't need to be an out and out winger to know that when you have the ball on the flank and any opposition players are several yards away from you, you move forward, not look to pass it sideways or back.


Pollock and Rose were dropped from the team v Exeter to accommodate Hanson and Davis. Vernam not even on the bench when he is the most natural replacement for Wright.

This week, Gibson, who has barely put a foot wrong, dropped so that we can accommodate an out of form right back and Green, not Rose, Ogbu or Vernam starts instead of Wright.

We, including the manager, all talk about playing counter attacking football and yet we pick our slowest striker. Makes no sense to me.
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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from The Old Codger


Pollock and Rose were dropped from the team v Exeter to accommodate Hanson and Davis. Vernam not even on the bench when he is the most natural replacement for Wright.

This week, Gibson, who has barely put a foot wrong, dropped so that we can accommodate an out of form right back and Green, not Rose, Ogbu or Vernam starts instead of Wright.

We, including the manager, all talk about playing counter attacking football and yet we pick our slowest striker. Makes no sense to me.


Not saying he got the selection right, just that when you remove one piece unless you have a replacement you end up with several other changes. Players being outside of their natural position will obviously limit the team but there were times when the players made mistakes that can't be accounted for by being out of position. Just slow thinking. Or cautious thinking - too cautious.

Vernam was on the bench. He came on for Green.

Pollock was the replacement in the Exeter game so to see him swapped out next game wasn't a surprise.


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denni266
October 13, 2019, 9:34pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from chaos33
Original post in this thread from a serial moaner pretty embarrassing, especially the misspelling of our manager’s name.

Anyway, which manager was it who recently said ‘Grimsby have a bit of everything’? That’s good. We just need to be smarter at deploying it. The glaring issue for me, is if our Plan A revolves around crosses to Hanson, then we surely must be playing with some width and working on delivery and set pieces. For me the team is often not  set up to prioritise this. One natural attacking wide player in the squad looks like a management oversight to me. It seems to be fairly evident after this number of games that we are probably going to be a middling sort of team. Better than being strugglers but I think we could be making much better use off what we’ve got at times.


sodomist me . ya spotted me
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Abdul19
October 13, 2019, 9:35pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from quebec38

A Ben Pringle or such like on loan is a must ASAP.


January 1


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The Old Codger
October 13, 2019, 9:38pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Not saying he got the selection right, just that when you remove one piece unless you have a replacement you end up with several other changes. Players being outside of their natural position will obviously limit the team but there were times when the players made mistakes that can't be accounted for by being out of position. Just slow thinking. Or cautious thinking - too cautious.

Vernam was on the bench. He came on for Green.

Pollock was the replacement in the Exeter game so to see him swapped out next game wasn't a surprise.


Vernam wasn't on the bench for the Mansfield game - Green came on for Wright and did exactly what he did against Salford - tried too hard against a former club which had a negative rather than positive effect.

I understand why some like Green - he works really hard but, to me, he offers less threat than Wright, Rose, Vernam, Ogbu and possibly even Cook.
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golfer
October 13, 2019, 11:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner


Well, as Captain he should take the bull by the horns and ignore them if he can see lumping it up just ain't working, that's his role!!


You don't honestly think he kicks it towards Hanson on purpose ?
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Maringer
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Got to be said, I'm surprised to see people complaining that Vernam didn't come in to replace Wright on the wing. From my recollection, Vernam has always been pretty anonymous when played out wide.

Unfortunately, I worry he may be one of those players with ability but who is unable to find a position where he can bring this to bear. Or perhaps, one who is only good in certain positions/formations but not good enough to change the way the manager wants to play.
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arryarryarry
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Quoted from Maringer
Got to be said, I'm surprised to see people complaining that Vernam didn't come in to replace Wright on the wing. From my recollection, Vernam has always been pretty anonymous when played out wide.

Unfortunately, I worry he may be one of those players with ability but who is unable to find a position where he can bring this to bear. Or perhaps, one who is only good in certain positions/formations but not good enough to change the way the manager wants to play.


Vernam can't really have done much worse that most of those that started on Saturday.
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Kris2
October 14, 2019, 1:39am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Maringer
Got to be said, I'm surprised to see people complaining that Vernam didn't come in to replace Wright on the wing. From my recollection, Vernam has always been pretty anonymous when played out wide.

Unfortunately, I worry he may be one of those players with ability but who is unable to find a position where he can bring this to bear. Or perhaps, one who is only good in certain positions/formations but not good enough to change the way the manager wants to play.


Yeah but if a player isn't getting in the team the fans think he's better than he has been when playing.


Comrade Kris2
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Northbank Mariner
October 14, 2019, 6:27am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from golfer


You don't honestly think he kicks it towards Hanson on purpose ?


Erm, yes.!!😂😂
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wembley19984
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Football is a simple game, divide the pitch into four quarters.
Left sided players, ie those with a left foot play on the left and right footed players, play on the right.
Gives the correct balance, those with pace play out wide.
So Mr Jolley you lost sight of the fundamentals on Saturday and got it all bottom about face, hence the woeful first half.
You're fault 100%
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denni266
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Quoted from wembley19984
Football is a simple game, divide the pitch into four quarters.
Left sided players, ie those with a left foot play on the left and right footed players, play on the right.
Gives the correct balance, those with pace play out wide.
So Mr Jolley you lost sight of the fundamentals on Saturday and got it all bottom about face, hence the woeful first half.
You're fault 100%


That is spot on.. The point i was making in the o p . was it was not the players fault but Jolley who got it wrong again , and he them blamed the players. But some on here are that far up his behind they are more bothered about  spelling mistakes
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The Old Codger
October 14, 2019, 10:11am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Kris2


Yeah but if a player isn't getting in the team the fans think he's better than he has been when playing.


Maybe so. I just remember how well we played up to Christmas last year with Vernam in the team and then went on a bad run after he got his knee injury. I don't think he scores as often as he might but he certainly has more quality than most.
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KingstonMariner
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Jolley might have got it wrong but you cannot excuse the players on Saturday for playing without determination or engaging their brains, or doing the simple things properly.


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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from The Old Codger


Vernam wasn't on the bench for the Mansfield game - Green came on for Wright and did exactly what he did against Salford - tried too hard against a former club which had a negative rather than positive effect.

I understand why some like Green - he works really hard but, to me, he offers less threat than Wright, Rose, Vernam, Ogbu and possibly even Cook.


Thought you were talking about Saturday


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The Old Codger
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Quoted from denni266


That is spot on.. The point i was making in the o p . was it was not the players fault but Jolley who got it wrong again , and he them blamed the players. But some on here are that far up his behind they are more bothered about  spelling mistakes


Whilst I agree that the selection was odd, there's no excusing that performance, particularly in the first half.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
Jolley might have got it wrong but you cannot excuse the players on Saturday for playing without determination or engaging their brains, or doing the simple things properly.


Perhaps they feel as bewildered as we do about the selections and tactics. Messing about like Jolley has been doing is not exactly conducive to team spirit.

Is it just my imagination or are we hearing  less public comment from the players at the moment?





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Is it just my imagination or are we hearing  less public comment from the players at the moment?





I think the players make more comments when we win - there were plenty of tweets after the win at Exeter.

Even Dean Henderson went quiet after his mistake against Liverpool.
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Abdul19
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Yeah I've not seen many of late, although all they'd say is "gutted about today, we go again, fans were class as usual 🙌" anyway!


“I hit the ball as though it owed me money.”
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I see the buzz words moulded into a phrase of sorts is "we go again."

Well unless we are planning not to fulfil our fixtures, I will take that as a given.

What I would prefer to hear is what we are we going to do to improve our chances of threatening the play-off places.

A reasonable start is in danger of coming off the rails unless we stop making unenforced errors, and start getting some shots away.

I wasn't there on Saturday, but by all accounts we were shocking, but in the Mansfield game we never gave the keeper a shot to save.

We have better players this season by some margin; they need to be moulded into an attacking unit that works and get us back on track.

My comments are as obvious as "we go again" I suppose, but one thing I would change for the better is getting rid of the negative mindset about how good the opposition are and how good their manager is that we hear every week. If it is to reduce expectations we are not stupid; we are in league 2 for Gods sake not the Champions League. Play an attacking line up with players in form and who are training well and attack the opposition and let them worry about things.

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chaos33
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It’s hard to understand fully what was meant by the slightly clumsy overstatement that is the title of this thread, but, nonetheless , I think it would be unfair to be over critical of MJ after 2 disappointing results.
We need to stay balanced I reckon.

Lots of people favour a settled team selection and it’s chicken and egg when your results are up and down like ours are. Most people are now advocating changes to last weeks starting 11 and will be vocally critical if he doesn’t exchange some starters, but then others will call it more ‘tinkering’. He’s a bit stuck if the players don’t deliver, like they didnt last Saturday, with basic errors everywhere. And.....how many would, of course, benefit from a ‘run in the team - just like Vernam. Difficulty is - you’re only gonna get that after successive good results, you play well when you get the chance, and it can only really be achieved  if you don’t pick up injuries or suspensions, like we have.

Our basic problem is - we have better players this season than last, but too many of them are not performing to the standards they’ve shown/set on a regular basis. We have too many changes in selection and two many playing ‘out of their best position’, much of which, in fairness,  is enforced, of course. And, we are palpably and frustratingly short of a natural, wide attacking player or two, only having one, who’s now injured.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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Quoted from chaos33
It’s hard to understand fully what was meant by the slightly clumsy overstatement that is the title of this thread, but, nonetheless , I think it would be unfair to be over critical of MJ after 2 disappointing results.
We need to stay balanced I reckon.

Lots of people favour a settled team selection and it’s chicken and egg when your results are up and down like ours are. Most people are now advocating changes to last weeks starting 11 and will be vocally critical if he doesn’t exchange some starters, but then others will call it more ‘tinkering’. He’s a bit stuck if the players don’t deliver, like they didnt last Saturday, with basic errors everywhere. And.....how many would, of course, benefit from a ‘run in the team - just like Vernam. Difficulty is - you’re only gonna get that after successive good results, you play well when you get the chance, and it can only really be achieved  if you don’t pick up injuries or suspensions, like we have.

Our basic problem is - we have better players this season than last, but too many of them are not performing to the standards they’ve shown/set on a regular basis. We have too many changes in selection and two many playing ‘out of their best position’, much of which, in fairness,  is enforced, of course. And, we are palpably and frustratingly short of a natural, wide attacking player or two, only having one, who’s now injured.


True to an extent but I don’t think people are advocating the same 11 for every game, more that fans would like to see a settled way of playing and tactics that get the best from our players.

That might stop this daft worrying about the way other sides like the Mighty Stevenage will play and concentrate our players’ minds on doing what we want but better and better as time goes on. Let other sides do the worrying while we just pick the best form players in natural positions with tactics they understand and have trained for.



"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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The Old Codger
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True to an extent but I don’t think people are advocating the same 11 for every game, more that fans would like to see a settled way of playing and tactics that get the best from our players.

That might stop this daft worrying about the way other sides like the Mighty Stevenage will play and concentrate our players’ minds on doing what we want but better and better as time goes on. Let other sides do the worrying while we just pick the best form players in natural positions with tactics they understand and have trained for.



Just simple things like playing a left footer at left back, particularly as he's done very little wrong in the games I've seen.
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monkeyboy
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Im not going to panic, we are well placed inn the league with a decent enough set of players
Couple arent performing but every player cant be on song every game, whitehouse and green been poor but they are good players but like most league 2 players they lack consistency.
Midfield has been my biggest worry and need to strengthen.
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