Just back

Very, very poor again against another pretty average team. Vernam had a decent first half, no-one else really did much. Collins done for pace for 1st, Macca didn’t come for a floaty cross for 2nd. The highlight was Willy Wonka and the Oompa Lumpas.

For the first time I left before the end with ten minutes to go just had enough of this total garbage never looked like scoring. Will I be renewing my season ticket I will have to think on that but looking doubtful

Today performance was as bad as I've seen for ages.
The last 25 mins of the 1st half drove me mad, pass back, pass sideways flipping bore off.
There were only two players proud to wear a Town shirt today Hess and Harry C
We are going backward at a rate of knots.
I am a fan of Jolly but its wearing a bit thin at the moment.
I can't wait for the season to finish UTM

Quoted from mariner paul

For the first time I left before the end with ten minutes to go just had enough of this total garbage never looked like scoring. Will I be renewing my season ticket I will have to think on that but looking doubtful

Well they will be on sale early this year to capture your enthusiasm  

Thought first half was actually better than what I’d seen last time out at Swindon in an attacking sense. Two poor poor goals given away which knocked the stuffing out of a disjointed team low on confidence. Thought Clifton was v poor , lots of energy but poor passing.hess Hendrix and vernham came out with credit whilst Cardwell won at least 5 headers in the first half which nobody latched onto. Hall Johnson again was v poor imho he’s just not good enough in possession. Wtf was Davis doing in central midfield? A complete disaster whilst Dennis now realised what Thomas has been up against all season. V v worried.it looks dire
Season too far for Collins and whilst there were some nice bits of interplay and their keeper made two excellent saves, far too often we were ponderous and on our heels with far too many players not having a clue as to what their colleagues were either doing or likely to do.
So many problems - lack of confidence, pace and inventiveness for a start. Lack of cohesion and goal scoring threat and now giving away stupid goals makes for a perfect storm
Ps thanks Michael for giving youth a chance.bringing on Martin Woodford to play one up front when we are two down and struggling was a master stroke

Quoted from forza ivano

Thought first half was actually better than what I’d seen last time out at Swindon in an attacking sense. Two poor poor goals given away which knocked the stuffing out of a disjointed team low on confidence. Thought Clifton was v poor , lots of energy but poor passing.hess Hendrix and vernham came out with credit whilst Cardwell won at least 5 headers in the first half which nobody latched onto. Hall Johnson again was v poor imho he’s just not good enough in possession. Wtf was Davis doing in central midfield? A complete disaster whilst Dennis now realised what Thomas has been up against all season. V v worried.it looks dire

Talking to Harry Clifton’s grandad before the game and he’s playing through an injury.

No hiding from it, we're lucky there's 3 worse teams than us!!...we are pretty terrible and not showing signs of improvement, still can't hit a cows at&e with a banjo and Macca still just bangs ball up the middle!!..bloody awful and if I'm brutally honest I've lost all faith in the new Messiah Michael Jolley!!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Talking to Harry Clifton’s grandad before the game and he’s playing through an injury.

His Grandad is still playing ? Very admirable  

Quoted from moosey_club

His Grandad is still playing ? Very admirable  

His Grandad is still playing, albeit at a slightly slower pace.

Quoted from Grimal

His Grandad is still playing, albeit at a slightly slower pace.

I’m sure he’s still quicker than Collins

Quoted from bawarmy

I’m sure he’s still quicker than Collins

My grandma's quicker than Collins....and she died 10 years ago!!

Is his grandad Bernie by chance?

We seem to be going backwards, where is the drive, determination and Grimsby grit. It seems the club has none and we are struggling even to maintain a bottom half of league 2 plodders just doing enough to avoid the drop.

Well it was never going to be a fluid performance that clicked considering the personnel missing and that 11 had never started together before.

I don't get that Jolley played a man in front of the back 4 to "get more players further up the pitch, surely 4-3-3 would have been better? I really don't get that he put the ponderous Davis in the role and left a decent passer in Woolley on the bench.  

You can break this game down and analyse it as much as you like but we defended badly when it mattered, possibly because Collins is past it and we never play the same defense twice. We didn't keep possession well and lacked any form of tempo and zip in our passing and movement.

Their first goal represented all of the above with Town having a decent offensive opportunity and turning it into conceding a goal form a break where it was 3 on 2............ 3 Town players and 2 Stevenage! Their 2nd was a complete farce TBH.      

After the 2nd goal the game was over but it would have been nice to see the manager try to make changes rather than the obligatory 70 min like for like change, then again we might be able to get players on earlier if Limbrick didn't insist on talking them through a book full of diagrams first, they're professional footballers FFS and usually crap themselves and avoid with anything on paper unless it's got the Queens head on it of course.  

The side looks like it's on the beach which though annoying is hardly surprising. Do I sign up to the theory of "if you finish a season badly you'll start the next one badly" not really but unless Jolley finds a way for us to take the lead in a game or get back into one after going behind next season will be another struggle.

Spend too long in the basement and you'll fall through the trap door.......... lets face it it's happened before hasn't it?        

UTM!!!

P.S. Interesting that Grayson came on ahead of Ring maybe MJ has seen what we suspect that he's not at a level yet to play in the EFL.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Talking to Harry Clifton’s grandad before the game and he’s playing through an injury.

And how does that impede his ability to play a simple pas, accurately, to a team mate?

The annoying thing for me today was that the guys in fancy dress managed to escape the ground before me.....I had the last laugh though when I passed them on the bus before they got to the High Street.

Quoted from promotion plaice

The annoying thing for me today was that the guys in fancy dress managed to escape the ground before me.....I got the last laugh though when I passed them on the bus before they got to the High Street.

I saw the Umpa Lumpas and someone dressed as Mr Wonka but looking at today’s performance there was a lot of “Charlie’s” to choose from to be honest.

That was rank. Awful game and shocking performance. The lack of quality and depth in our squad is really starting to tell. We have done well to get ourselves safe with this squad.

We had a bad transfer window, putting all our focus on playing with wingbacks, but not actually signing any wingbacks. Ring is shite and Dennis can’t run or jump.
We are struggling in the formation and Jolley is a right tinkerer.

Also shocking to think we have Wright out on loan, he must be better than most of the attacking players in the squad today.

Didn't go today, and not been as much as I would like, but with a 3 year old and a 12 week old, other things take priority.

So whilst I can't comment on the performance, I can comment that it doesn't change over night, we still have the same great squad, and same great manager as 3 months ago when on the brink of the play-offs, don't forget that...

All season we have gone on 1 good run, then a bad run, we are consistent, but not in the way we want to be.

But like I've said before, you can't change a properly awful team into a top top league 2 team on 2 Windows, not a chance, sorry if you thought he would.

Also, we won't get promoted next season, sorry to break it to you, if you want success, back this manager

He's giving contracts to young players, he's believing in them, giving them what no other manager since Buckley has done, a chance!!

We still have to many below average players that will be gone in the summer, and some young players that will get better.

Guess what, Sir Buckley signed players that didn't work out for one reason or another, MJ is no different, some signings, extending contracts can be a mistake, but you take them with the good decisions he makes

Believe in him, get off his back, and support the 11 players on the pitch

Quoted from TAGG

Today performance was as bad as I've seen for ages.
The last 25 mins of the 1st half drove me mad, pass back, pass sideways flipping bore off.
There were only two players proud to wear a Town shirt today Hess and Harry C
We are going backward at a rate of knots.
I am a fan of Jolly but its wearing a bit thin at the moment.
I can't wait for the season to finish UTM

I thought our midfield as a whole was cack, that was Clifton's poorest performance for me and I don't know what Hessenthaler did to earn that praise.

I thought our best player by a mile was Vernam.

All doom and gloom from me with regards what happened on the pitch yesterday which is unusual. The only positive was that it shouldn’t matter come the end of the season. Like most though I’m still behind Jolley although I think he could do with changing things now.
We didn’t seem to have any game plan and if we were all still there now, I think the score would read Grimsby Town nil. There was no intensity and no ideas. Nothing up front or in the middle. Or wide.
I think we should have changed to a 442 for the second half. Granted it would have been cobbled together with players out of position, but this wing back system is looking tired and completely ineffective at the minute. I’m not suggesting we turn our backs on it completely though as at times it has worked well since January.
Harsh but I would leave Collins out of the matchday squad now. He’s been great for Grimsby but he’ll not be here next season and it would be nice to see what Pollock is all about and whether he could create a partnership, whether in a two or three until the end of the season.
Is Ring injured or just out of favour now?
Dennis has done very little for me since arriving. I don’t doubt he can score goals but I’ve seen little evidence he offers much else.
I think the most frustrating thing of all yesterday were set pieces. We play with 3 big centre halves yet were dropping in the worst, most tamest of corners. In the Lincoln home game, we were so inventive with corners all of a sudden and we were led to believe Limbrick had been working hard on them with the squad. We nearly carved them open 3 or 4 times in that game and since then it has been completely abandoned. Struggling to score like we do, I can’t believe we don’t at least put a better ball in to the box for the big players to attack.
Please MJ freshen things up next game. Let’s concentrate solely on who will be here next season. Let’s attack the opposition and line up with more players further up the pitch. The season is over and it can’t get much worse.

Quoted from quebec38

All doom and gloom from me with regards what happened on the pitch yesterday which is unusual. The only positive was that it shouldn’t matter come the end of the season. Like most though I’m still behind Jolley although I think he could do with changing things now.
We didn’t seem to have any game plan and if we were all still there now, I think the score would read Grimsby Town nil. There was no intensity and no ideas. Nothing up front or in the middle. Or wide.
I think we should have changed to a 442 for the second half. Granted it would have been cobbled together with players out of position, but this wing back system is looking tired and completely ineffective at the minute. I’m not suggesting we turn our backs on it completely though as at times it has worked well since January.
Harsh but I would leave Collins out of the matchday squad now. He’s been great for Grimsby but he’ll not be here next season and it would be nice to see what Pollock is all about and whether he could create a partnership, whether in a two or three until the end of the season.
Is Ring injured or just out of favour now?
Dennis has done very little for me since arriving. I don’t doubt he can score goals but I’ve seen little evidence he offers much else.
I think the most frustrating thing of all yesterday were set pieces. We play with 3 big centre halves yet were dropping in the worst, most tamest of corners. In the Lincoln home game, we were so inventive with corners all of a sudden and we were led to believe Limbrick had been working hard on them with the squad. We nearly carved them open 3 or 4 times in that game and since then it has been completely abandoned. Struggling to score like we do, I can’t believe we don’t at least put a better ball in to the box for the big players to attack.
Please MJ freshen things up next game. Let’s concentrate solely on who will be here next season. Let’s attack the opposition and line up with more players further up the pitch. The season is over and it can’t get much worse.

But surely it's simple to change 5-3-2 to 4-4-2. Drop out a centre back and replace with a midfielder. The two wing backs then play as conventional full backs. The midfielder that you bring on can either be a wide player or a midfield yard dog.

Agreed. I would have had Collins off for Woolford. Woolford to left midfield with Clifton and Hess in the centre and Vernam out wide. What I meant by cobbled together is that Woolfords best position for me is in central midfield and Vernam more through the middle. We didn’t have any specialist wide midfielders to bring on.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I thought our best player by a mile was Vernam.

Vernam was lively in the first half but, unfortunately, did his disappearing trick in the second. Other than the chance he missed after good work from Woolford, I can barely recall him touching the ball after the break. It's the main problem with him - I can't remember a game where he's had more than one good half.

I don't disagree that Clifton was poor yesterday. He's gone backwards this season for me but if, as reported, he is playing through an injury, this is possibly understandable. Hessenthaler did OK yesterday but no more than that. The fact you would struggle to think of a player worthy of man of the match yesterday (and in other recent home games as well) provides a good indication of where we're at.

Quoted from Maringer

Vernam was lively in the first half but, unfortunately, did his disappearing trick in the second. Other than the chance he missed after good work from Woolford, I can barely recall him touching the ball after the break. It's the main problem with him - I can't remember a game where he's had more than one good half.

I don't disagree that Clifton was poor yesterday. He's gone backwards this season for me but if, as reported, he is playing through an injury, this is possibly understandable. Hessenthaler did OK yesterday but no more than that. The fact you would struggle to think of a player worthy of man of the match yesterday (and in other recent home games as well) provides a good indication of where we're at.

Fully agree with you there Maringer...
You can never fault Clifton's work rate but to me he's lost his way a bit. Poor distribution of the ball and chasing shadows. If he is carrying a injury surely playing will only make it worse. Why not have him on the bench and start with Woolford?
I was really pleased when we signed Hess, hoping he would be as good as his dad. Yet he too lacks consistency.
Of course we are lacking goal scorers but the midfield players have very few goal assists this season, let alone many individual goals.

What really hacked me off yesterday - and I realise we had a few important players missing etc and it is highly unlikely we will go down (but doesn't excuse performance) - was the total lack of drive, urgency, passion to get back into the game second half
The early second goal didn't help but even before that we were never on the front foot - who was driving us on? Who was shouting at the team to step it up? Stevenage defence strolled through second half

Seen this so often over the years - when was the last time we rallied in the second half and really took the game to the opposition (someone will tell me it was a few weeks ago...but you know what I mean)

I still have faith in MJ and want him to succeed (not going to be easy with budgets, location etc) but this tinkering drives me mad; why have Davis playing in front of the back four? It's not fecking Champions League and like he's up against a Guardiola type manager!
It's almost "I've got my badges and by God I'm going to show you what a tactical genius I am"

Buckley 442 - players in right positions - great first touch for that level - target man (yep, not all Buckley players were classy) - passing footy - but team with leaders like Lever, Cunnington, Groves, McDermott etc

I am certain 'systems' prevent you playing your best players sometimes and./or playing players out of position to fit into a system (RHJ springs to mind - feel sorry for the lad cos I think he's an outstanding prospect and deserved better after being superb at Palace).

However, yesterday was about everything we lack whatever the system - pace, creativity and goals

Of the current squad I'd only consider the following for opening match of next season (assuming they are all here)

Macca
Hendrie
Ohman
Davis (back four!)
RHJ
Clifton (good energy - can be the legs for more creative types)
Vernam (classy player and will be better with better players around him)

Hessenthaler?? A good squad player but if he was ice cream he'd be vanilla...and we have too many of that flavour (but is that where we are in transfer pecking order?)

I honestly think MJ knows what the problems are - he alludes to this in his interviews - and I hope he can find another Omar or Podge; and that Whitehouse turns out to be a quality signing and stays injury free

If not we will continue to hover bottom half of division - it is almost inevitable

Quoted from Maringer

Vernam was lively in the first half but, unfortunately, did his disappearing trick in the second. Other than the chance he missed after good work from Woolford, I can barely recall him touching the ball after the break. It's the main problem with him - I can't remember a game where he's had more than one good half.

I don't disagree that Clifton was poor yesterday. He's gone backwards this season for me but if, as reported, he is playing through an injury, this is possibly understandable. Hessenthaler did OK yesterday but no more than that. The fact you would struggle to think of a player worthy of man of the match yesterday (and in other recent home games as well) provides a good indication of where we're at.

I agree somewhat to your view of Vernam but players like him need to be given the ball but our midfield is so ineffective it just doesn't create the opportunities for the forwards. The same for Dennis, you hardly knew he was on the pitch.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I agree somewhat to your view of Vernam but players like him need to be given the ball but our midfield is so ineffective it just doesn't create the opportunities for the forwards. The same for Dennis, you hardly knew he was on the pitch.

Dennis made some decent runs yesterday which Vernam in particular didnt read or play him in, first half there were a couple where Dennis arched his run across the line and just needed slipping in to run onto but Vernam ran across the face of the box with the ball instead.
Dennis also slipped Vernam in for that chance second half with a lovely bit of vision.

Quoted from moosey_club

Dennis made some decent runs yesterday which Vernam in particular didnt read or play him in, first half there were a couple where Dennis arched his run across the line and just needed slipping in to run onto but Vernam ran across the face of the box with the ball instead.
Dennis also slipped Vernam in for that chance second half with a lovely bit of vision.

A match fit and thus a match sharp Dennis would be a good signing for Town IMHO.

Quoted from moosey_club

Dennis made some decent runs yesterday which Vernam in particular didnt read or play him in, first half there were a couple where Dennis arched his run across the line and just needed slipping in to run onto but Vernam ran across the face of the box with the ball instead.
Dennis also slipped Vernam in for that chance second half with a lovely bit of vision.

Was it Vernam who played the ball across from the right in the first half when Dennis got a foot on it but it just went the wrong side of the post?

Quoted from arryarryarry

I thought our midfield as a whole was cack, that was Clifton's poorest performance for me and I don't know what Hessenthaler did to earn that praise.

I thought our best player by a mile was Vernam.

I think your reading skill are going down the pan.
Every player on the pitch was carp (including those two) but imo those two were the only ones who wanted to play for the shirt.

I don't rate Dennis.

Quoted from chaos33

I don't rate Dennis.

You may be right but we all said we need a goalscorer. We sign a goal scorer with a decent record. He scored early on and looked quite bright. Within a few games and fewer goal chances he is now as rubbish as the rest! There is a moral there somewhere.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

You may be right but we all said we need a goalscorer. We sign a goal scorer with a decent record. He scored early on and looked quite bright. Within a few games and fewer goal chances he is now as rubbish as the rest! There is a moral there somewhere.

Always seem to be the same with us.... Connor Jennings for example. Scores for fun except for when he played for us

I know that was under Hurst but maybe Jolley is too conservative too in the approach play which means fewer chances in and around the box for the out and out goalscorers we bring in

Quoted from TAGG

I think your reading skill are going down the pan.
Every player on the pitch was carp (including those two) but imo those two were the only ones who wanted to play for the shirt.

I have no idea what you are on about sunshine.

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

Was it Vernam who played the ball across from the right in the first half when Dennis got a foot on it but it just went the wrong side of the post?

Yes

Quoted from chaos33

I don't rate Dennis.

Must admit I was expecting him to have a little more impact....there's still time.

Let's put it this way, if the season was 4-6 games longer than this I would be nervously looking over our shoulder at what's happening below.

Absolutely turgid following a bright start when Hendrie and Hessenthaler had shots saved and blocked respectively.   Formation wise it took me about 25 minutes to figure out what we were trying to do.  I think it was a 4-1-4-1 with Davis in a holding role that he never quite settled into and Vernam and Cardwell wide, which meant we had a left hand side pairing of RHJ and Cardwell, balanced it was not.

Vernam was by far the stand out player and showed a few moments of class to get away from his men but was not only wasted  in a wide role but also lacked any support or ability around him.  Clifton and Hessenthaler both ran their socks off but look tired and as if a hard season has taken it's toll on them.  Cardwell has really gone backwards since last season when he showed promise if not the goals, didn't help him playing out of position on the left wing but basics like first touch and short passes don't matter wherever you play.  

Collins and Whitmore (Davis too) aren't up to it in my opinion.  Collins has been a great player and we were lucky to have him 2 seasons ago.  The problem is his legs have completely gone, it's like he was running in glue for their first goal.  Didn't help that Davis in front of him was watching play for 10 seconds before he realised what was going on ahead and around him.   Whitmore could do the warrior role and put his head where it hurts, but we've got Ohman for that so perhaps as back-up.  Davis I'm totally unconvinced by, in any position.   The back 3/5 was ditched on Saturday but I'm still baffled why RHJ isn't a mainstay in that system.  He and Ohman should be cemented in those roles for next season with a natural left footer brought in to play where Collins is/was.  I thought Grayson did ok when he came on and can't figure out why he's not played more at left-back, especially when Ring has struggled.

Up top Dennis was isolated but he didn't exactly bust a gut to impress either.  Had a decent chance in the first half which he really should have buried.    If he's trying to impress to win a contract, he really needs to do more in my opinion.

Seeing the line-up before the game I thought it was going to be 3-5-2 with RHJ and Hendrie as wingbacks with Vernam behind the front two of Dennis and Cardwell.  I thought that would work and was quite looking forward to seeing Vernman given a free role but also how Dennis paired with someone who would put a real shift in.

At 2-0 down and with neither promotion or relegation to contend with, I was disappointed to see Woolford brought on and then Grayson (as a loanee who probably won't be here next season) when we had 3 home grown lads sat on the bench.  What a perfect opportunity to give them all a chance to get some game time under their belt.  I don't dislike Woolford but there was absolutely no benefit in giving him minutes.  

This season is in danger of becoming one of the dullest in living memory.  For Jolley's own preservation he needs to end this season on something of a high.  Start the season slowly in August after a drab end to this one and the knives will be out.  Absolute priorities over the summer has to be pace and width.  We need a goalscorer and we need a creative midfielder.  But those will be redundant if we don't stretch teams.    A lot of our fans are unhappy with 3-5-2, it's not the system that's letting us down.  It's the players we've got in the building to select from.  We have no width at all, none.  We've no wingers, well we have one and he's playing down the A16, we also have full-backs that are not really attacking ones.  Hendrie is ok at pushing on and can deliver a very good cross from deep but he's not really you're overlapping the striker type.  I'm not sure I've seen Ring go beyond the half-way line too often and whilst RHJ wants to get forward, he's better deployed centrally in my mind.  The two sides running away with the Championship and League One don't play a rigid 4-4-2.  They play with a narrow midfield and raiding full-backs.  All four have been selected in their respective divisions Team of the Year.   Look at the improvement we made when we had Conor Townsend bombing on from left-back.  It makes a world of difference.  

Regarding Dennis, I think he's shown enough good touches to indicate he's a capable footballer. The problem is that most of these touches have come well outside of the box and he's the type of player you want in the mix as much as possible. Not to mention the fact that he's been playing alongside either Thomas (who has either been disinterested or tired in recent months), or Cardwell who probably isn't up to the job. He managed a couple of decent efforts on Saturday though I don't think either was exactly a sitter and the header did bring off a good save.

Any striker is going to struggle when they aren't getting the support from midfield or their strike partner. I think I'd keep Dennis next season, providing we have somebody capable alongside him and can sort out the midfield. Whether or not he'll be staying is a different matter.

seen nothing from Dennis at all. but our team creates so few chances that I cant really blame him

[quote=58]

Always seem to be the same with us.... Connor Jennings for example. Scores for fun except for when he played for us

I know that was under Hurst but maybe Jolley is too conservative too in the approach play which means fewer chances in and around the box for the out and out goalscorers we bring in[/quote]

Theres your answer.

Dennis will make us look stupid next season banging in goals everywhere for someone else. then our fans wioll say ''Why didn't he do it for us''

Jolley's inability to maximise our goalscoring chances the way he gets the ball forward will be his downfall - hopefully not ours as well..

Quoted from TheGoalKipper

[quote=58]

Always seem to be the same with us.... Connor Jennings for example. Scores for fun except for when he played for us

I know that was under Hurst but maybe Jolley is too conservative too in the approach play which means fewer chances in and around the box for the out and out goalscorers we bring in[/quote]

Theres your answer.

Dennis will make us look stupid next season banging in goals everywhere for someone else. then our fans wioll say ''Why didn't he do it for us''

Jolley's inability to maximise our goalscoring chances the way he gets the ball forward will be his downfall - hopefully not ours as well..

The thing is there have been some moments when Town really have played some expansive football.... just too few

Maybe given time, MJ will let them off the leash but the longer we're always looking over our shoulders at the bottom of the table rather than looking up at the play-off spots, things probably won't change

We can but dream but I think it's his way to keep it tight and hope to counter rather than just going out and seizing the moment

UTM