Port Vale

Be careful what we wish for  

"Mark Porter, chairman of the Port Vale Supporters Club has called owner Norman Smurthwaite a “disgrace” after his extraordinary decision to put the club into administration if an acceptable buyer is not found.

Port Vale owner Smurthwaite says the club will be put into administration if a takeover deal cannot be completed by May 5th."

Best part is, there is a local buyer lined up (They have already made offers) but they want him to sell all parts of the club, but it has been split into 2 companies and he wants to hold onto the infrastructure which includes a large swathe of land (Bycars) alongside it which could easily become a site to build hotel/houses and also the kiosks on match day. .

Quoted from promotion plaice

Be careful what we wish for  

"Mark Porter, chairman of the Port Vale Supporters Club has called owner Norman Smurthwaite a “disgrace” after his extraordinary decision to put the club into administration if an acceptable buyer is not found.

Port Vale owner Smurthwaite says the club will be put into administration if a takeover deal cannot be completed by May 5th."

I’m wishing for a new stadium and somebody who can push the club on like I have been for the last 20 years

Quoted from promotion plaice

Be careful what we wish for  

"Mark Porter, chairman of the Port Vale Supporters Club has called owner Norman Smurthwaite a “disgrace” after his extraordinary decision to put the club into administration if an acceptable buyer is not found.

Port Vale owner Smurthwaite says the club will be put into administration if a takeover deal cannot be completed by May 5th."

He's put in a fair bit £1.5 million and wants to get it back plus some ,the half of  the club that's worth anything  is a seperate entity which he has control over.
then acting like a spoilt brat as he's covered he will then virtually fold the club and legally he's fine wow.
How did they let him do that ,did no one know that was his intention?
There are so many dodgy people about that get into football , then its the fans left who pick up the pieces or have to start again.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Be careful what we wish for  

"Mark Porter, chairman of the Port Vale Supporters Club has called owner Norman Smurthwaite a “disgrace” after his extraordinary decision to put the club into administration if an acceptable buyer is not found.

Port Vale owner Smurthwaite says the club will be put into administration if a takeover deal cannot be completed by May 5th."

I'm wishing for someone who will turn the club around and hopefully get this club to League 1 with a view to getting back to the Championship at some stage in the not too distant future rather than someone who has overseen more than 15 years of decline, taken us out of the Football League and last season nearly took us back to the wilderness.

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

I’m wishing for a new stadium and somebody who can push the club on like I have been for the last 31 years

Edited that for you mate

Quoted from promotion plaice

Be careful what we wish for  

"Mark Porter, chairman of the Port Vale Supporters Club has called owner Norman Smurthwaite a “disgrace” after his extraordinary decision to put the club into administration if an acceptable buyer is not found.

Port Vale owner Smurthwaite says the club will be put into administration if a takeover deal cannot be completed by May 5th."

Clubs change managers frequently to provide a new impetus. They sign players to reignite interest from the fans. Big and small companies change strategy and personnel to liven things up to explore new markets and keep the drive and determination going. They raise their profile, they look at things differently and they improve their product and services all the time - or at least they do if they want to remain in the game.

Anybody who has been to BP on a non match day will not see anything like this. They will see a jaded, old fashioned and dreary experience with no leadership and just an acceptance that things will always be the same.

What we are looking for is a vision. A new start, a fresh beginning and a different way of doing things. Sure that needs a bit of money, some investment but so much could be done with relatively little but of course we are stuck. Not going forwards nor backwards, just stuck in a rut.

Mr Fenty perhaps should have taken a collegiate approach to other people, and slowly over time built a solid future. Over time people like Mike Parker could perhaps have attracted other wealthy people to share in a vision for the future and slowly built the club, with different people contributing different skills and new money, but everything seems to get bogged down.

I suppose what I am saying is money isn't everything, but a different approach is what we need.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Clubs change managers frequently to provide a new impetus. They sign players to reignite interest from the fans. Big and small companies change strategy and personnel to liven things up to explore new markets and keep the drive and determination going. They raise their profile, they look at things differently and they improve their product and services all the time - or at least they do if they want to remain in the game.

Anybody who has been to BP on a non match day will not see anything like this. They will see a jaded, old fashioned and dreary experience with no leadership and just an acceptance that things will always be the same.

What we are looking for is a vision. A new start, a fresh beginning and a different way of doing things. Sure that needs a bit of money, some investment but so much could be done with relatively little but of course we are stuck. Not going forwards nor backwards, just stuck in a rut.

Mr Fenty perhaps should have taken a collegiate approach to other people, and slowly over time built a solid future. Over time people like Mike Parker could perhaps have attracted other wealthy people to share in a vision for the future and slowly built the club, with different people contributing different skills and new money, but everything seems to get bogged down.

I suppose what I am saying is money isn't everything, but a different approach is what we need.

Na mate! Money is everything, fact look at your four top premshite teams, then look at Hull

Quoted from Garth

Na mate! Money is everything, fact look at your four top premshite teams, then look at Hull

I want there to be more money of course. I think at our level though a lot could be done a little bit of investment and a major change in attitude.

I have been supporting Town for nearly 64 years and can not remember anybody putting any worthwhile money into the club apart from D. Ramsden and Fenty.

We know Ramsden wanted his back as soon as he got voted off the board,

We also know Fenty is taking his back in dribs and drabs, if you call £200,000 that,

So I do not expect anybody turning up with any amount of cash without wanting it back,

Unless some fan like me wins £70+ million on the lottery.







PS. I have not won £70+ million by the way.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Clubs change managers frequently to provide a new impetus. They sign players to reignite interest from the fans. Big and small companies change strategy and personnel to liven things up to explore new markets and keep the drive and determination going. They raise their profile, they look at things differently and they improve their product and services all the time - or at least they do if they want to remain in the game.

Anybody who has been to BP on a non match day will not see anything like this. They will see a jaded, old fashioned and dreary experience with no leadership and just an acceptance that things will always be the same.

What we are looking for is a vision. A new start, a fresh beginning and a different way of doing things. Sure that needs a bit of money, some investment but so much could be done with relatively little but of course we are stuck. Not going forwards nor backwards, just stuck in a rut.

Mr Fenty perhaps should have taken a collegiate approach to other people, and slowly over time built a solid future. Over time people like Mike Parker could perhaps have attracted other wealthy people to share in a vision for the future and slowly built the club, with different people contributing different skills and new money, but everything seems to get bogged down.

I suppose what I am saying is money isn't everything, but a different approach is what we need.

Your views on J.F. and the current state of the club are well known and although I don't particularly agree with them they are clearly views from the heart. What confuses me is in relation to this thread. Are you advocating someone like Mr Smurthwaite taking over here and that the risk in attracting a new major investor is worth it?

I think that in the world we live in nowadays you need new investment if you're going to go anywhere Barra. Bournemouth would still be languishing alongside us were it not for some Russian new money. Now they play at the top table. Would I want that for Town? Absolutely not, because I know that everything I know and love - and loathe! -  about the club would disappear.

I'd love to see them get promotion, of course, and if the chance of yet another stint in the Championship beckoned without all the financial nonsense now being splashed about in there as well I'd take that. Reality is, I'm a dinosaur. I want to see the club well run, fiscally secure, but not afraid to take the odd punt in backing whichever manager is at the helm. That's not too much to hope for?

Quoted from barralad

Your views on J.F. and the current state of the club are well known and although I don't particularly agree with them they are clearly views from the heart. What confuses me is in relation to this thread. Are you advocating someone like Mr Smurthwaite taking over here and that the risk in attracting a new major investor is worth it?

Barra - I was more commenting on that some fans think that because you get cases like Port Vale we should never ever take any risk; John Fenty is the only man in the universe that could possibly do the job. The "be careful what you wish for" mantra doesn't wash with me. Each to their own, but I would rather roll the dice and either get someone with money in, if a buyer could be found, or as I pointed out to get somebody in with new ideas. We are more or less self-sufficient, or certainly could be and more with the right impetus.

I have said many times on here if Mr. Fenty wants to remain in charge, why on earth doesn't he get help with the running of the club? Well, actually I do know the answer to that!

One man in sole charge for so long means the club is run in his own image with no change on the horizon. New people, new ideas, new money is what we need.

We would need a hell of a lot of sponsorship to even break even in the championship. I believe the average weekly wage is £20k, multiply by 20 as a squad = £400k per week multiply by 52 weeks is just over £20 million a year. I think the championship clubs get approximately £8 million from Sky, plus our gate receipts, lets say another £2 million, that gives us around £10 million. Now we only have to find another £10 million to break even. On those figures I think the championship is beyond us financially.

Port vale are 14/1 to be relegated, would the bookies honour it if they get a points deduction between now and the end of the season? 🤔

Quoted from Gaffer58

We would need a hell of a lot of sponsorship to even break even in the championship. I believe the average weekly wage is £20k, multiply by 20 as a squad = £400k per week multiply by 52 weeks is just over £20 million a year. I think the championship clubs get approximately £8 million from Sky, plus our gate receipts, lets say another £2 million, that gives us around £10 million. Now we only have to find another £10 million to break even. On those figures I think the championship is beyond us financially.

Burton were relegated last season but I wonder what their wage budget was? I also wonder what Rotherham's budget is this season? The only way a club like ours can make a fist of it at that level is to have a conveyor belt of young talent progressing through the ranks and into the first team alongside good relationships with the top teams for their best youngsters on loan.

I seem to remember a tiny little club down the m180 who managed to survive in the championship a few years ago

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Barra - I was more commenting on that some fans think that because you get cases like Port Vale we should never ever take any risk; John Fenty is the only man in the universe that could possibly do the job. The "be careful what you wish for" mantra doesn't wash with me. Each to their own, but I would rather roll the dice and either get someone with money in, if a buyer could be found, or as I pointed out to get somebody in with new ideas. We are more or less self-sufficient, or certainly could be and more with the right impetus.

I have said many times on here if Mr. Fenty wants to remain in charge, why on earth doesn't he get help with the running of the club? Well, actually I do know the answer to that!

One man in sole charge for so long means the club is run in his own image with no change on the horizon. New people, new ideas, new money is what we need.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment about him not taking a collegiate approach. You do everything your way, when you inevitably slip up (no one is infalible, sorry Your Holiness) there are fewer people who have your back. You also alienate people and they're less willing to help.

Club's like ours need to maximise the resources available, and that doesn't just been bean-counting. It means mobilising as many people with any vague connection to the club as you can.

Also agree with you in your comments about the 'be careful what you wish for' mantra.

Quoted from forza ivano

I seem to remember a tiny little club down the m180 who managed to survive in the championship a few years ago

If you call two seasons and then getting relegated " surviving " then you look at things a strange way. If memory serves me correctly they had two spells of two seasons in the Championship with subsequent relegations.

Quoted from rancido

If you call two seasons and then getting relegated " surviving " then you look at things a strange way. If memory serves me correctly they had two spells of two seasons in the Championship with subsequent relegations.

Yeah but at least they had some success we’ve had none in years and while the current owner is in charge it more than likely will stay that way , it needs fresh eyes with a more modern up to date approach don’t fear change embrace it

Quoted from rancido

If you call two seasons and then getting relegated " surviving " then you look at things a strange way. If memory serves me correctly they had two spells of two seasons in the Championship with subsequent relegations.

and where were we at the time?

Scunny had the luck of finding consecutive strikers who scored a load of goals and were subsequently sold on for a big profit.

The fact that they managed to do this a few times over a few seasons was a remarkable success. Something they've failed to replicate since, of course, despite the fact that their owner has been chucking in money willy-nilly.

Why did Ramsden get voted off if he was the money man and a fan? do his kids not follow town also?

Almost every club is over-spending (or at least benefitting from directors injecting extra cash into the club).

In my eyes, a club that's run sustainably and sensibly is one that spends within its means and isn't reliant on the board to dig them out of a financial hole i.e. spend the money you get through gate receipts and sponsorship.

If every club did that then I'd expect us to have a top 6 budget in this division.

But we're not because plenty of clubs at our level have extra cash coming in from somewhere - maybe that's historical transfers, when they've been able to sell assets for good money. In which case, good luck to them.

But in most cases it's because there's a benefactor or a board that's willing to chuck cash at the team in the hope that they move up the league ladder and start tapping into the extra cash that comes their way through sponsorship and TV.

The trouble starts when those benefactors begin to demand that cash back. We're now in a position where Fenty has us on a pretty even keel, day-to-day, but any profits we make are being taken back by him to pay off the debt his debt that he created by making poor decisions over the last decade or so.

If we want a budget to compete for promotion next season, the board will need to invest more money than we get through gates and sponsorship - and this could increase our debt unless we actually win promotion.

I'm not sure I want to start gambling again with the future of this club, especially as we remain in the icy grip of Fenty and the current board.

I'd like to see how far Jolley can take us with a sensible budget and a focus on youth. If we can develop and sell the likes of Clifton and Wright on for big profits then that can help fund future promotion pushes, and we'd be less reliant on the board for cash that will just drive up our debt and make us even more unattractive as a club to purchase.

Although scunny had their 2 sessions in he championship I would assume they were losing money each time, Mr Swann has bankrolled the club, so I wonder what his nett spend is over that time. Now they are on he cusp of relegation all Mr Swanns money has basically just gone up in smoke to have them back where they were when he took over. Unless all his money are " benign loans"  he may be wondering if it was all worth it, in time and money.

Quoted from RichMariner

Almost every club is over-spending (or at least benefitting from directors injecting extra cash into the club).

In my eyes, a club that's run sustainably and sensibly is one that spends within its means and isn't reliant on the board to dig them out of a financial hole i.e. spend the money you get through gate receipts and sponsorship.

If every club did that then I'd expect us to have a top 6 budget in this division.

But we're not because plenty of clubs at our level have extra cash coming in from somewhere - maybe that's historical transfers, when they've been able to sell assets for good money. In which case, good luck to them.

But in most cases it's because there's a benefactor or a board that's willing to chuck cash at the team in the hope that they move up the league ladder and start tapping into the extra cash that comes their way through sponsorship and TV.

The trouble starts when those benefactors begin to demand that cash back. We're now in a position where Fenty has us on a pretty even keel, day-to-day, but any profits we make are being taken back by him to pay off the debt his debt that he created by making poor decisions over the last decade or so.

If we want a budget to compete for promotion next season, the board will need to invest more money than we get through gates and sponsorship - and this could increase our debt unless we actually win promotion.

I'm not sure I want to start gambling again with the future of this club, especially as we remain in the icy grip of Fenty and the current board.

I'd like to see how far Jolley can take us with a sensible budget and a focus on youth. If we can develop and sell the likes of Clifton and Wright on for big profits then that can help fund future promotion pushes, and we'd be less reliant on the board for cash that will just drive up our debt and make us even more unattractive as a club to purchase.

But wasn't the bulk of that debt incurred through paying of Ramsden and HMRC , both of which were nothing to do with how JF was running the club?

Quoted from Gaffer58

Although scunny had their 2 sessions in he championship I would assume they were losing money each time, Mr Swann has bankrolled the club, so I wonder what his nett spend is over that time. Now they are on he cusp of relegation all Mr Swanns money has basically just gone up in smoke to have them back where they were when he took over. Unless all his money are " benign loans"  he may be wondering if it was all worth it, in time and money.

I think he will view it as worth it. Great times in the championship, top end of league 1 - what is not to like? The football pendulum swings to and fro (fro in our case) but he has great memories and he can always call it a day when his dream dies - but at least he had a dream.

Quoted from rancido

But wasn't the bulk of that debt incurred through paying of Ramsden and HMRC , both of which were nothing to do with how JF was running the club?

Taking just the non-League years the club's debt went up by £1.5m from £2.6 to £4.1m. I wonder how much the debt went up between JF paying off Ramsden/HMRC and when we got relegated.