Port Vale

Quoted from rancido

If you call two seasons and then getting relegated " surviving " then you look at things a strange way. If memory serves me correctly they had two spells of two seasons in the Championship with subsequent relegations.

and where were we at the time?

Scunny had the luck of finding consecutive strikers who scored a load of goals and were subsequently sold on for a big profit.

The fact that they managed to do this a few times over a few seasons was a remarkable success. Something they've failed to replicate since, of course, despite the fact that their owner has been chucking in money willy-nilly.

Why did Ramsden get voted off if he was the money man and a fan? do his kids not follow town also?

Almost every club is over-spending (or at least benefitting from directors injecting extra cash into the club).

In my eyes, a club that's run sustainably and sensibly is one that spends within its means and isn't reliant on the board to dig them out of a financial hole i.e. spend the money you get through gate receipts and sponsorship.

If every club did that then I'd expect us to have a top 6 budget in this division.

But we're not because plenty of clubs at our level have extra cash coming in from somewhere - maybe that's historical transfers, when they've been able to sell assets for good money. In which case, good luck to them.

But in most cases it's because there's a benefactor or a board that's willing to chuck cash at the team in the hope that they move up the league ladder and start tapping into the extra cash that comes their way through sponsorship and TV.

The trouble starts when those benefactors begin to demand that cash back. We're now in a position where Fenty has us on a pretty even keel, day-to-day, but any profits we make are being taken back by him to pay off the debt his debt that he created by making poor decisions over the last decade or so.

If we want a budget to compete for promotion next season, the board will need to invest more money than we get through gates and sponsorship - and this could increase our debt unless we actually win promotion.

I'm not sure I want to start gambling again with the future of this club, especially as we remain in the icy grip of Fenty and the current board.

I'd like to see how far Jolley can take us with a sensible budget and a focus on youth. If we can develop and sell the likes of Clifton and Wright on for big profits then that can help fund future promotion pushes, and we'd be less reliant on the board for cash that will just drive up our debt and make us even more unattractive as a club to purchase.

Although scunny had their 2 sessions in he championship I would assume they were losing money each time, Mr Swann has bankrolled the club, so I wonder what his nett spend is over that time. Now they are on he cusp of relegation all Mr Swanns money has basically just gone up in smoke to have them back where they were when he took over. Unless all his money are " benign loans"  he may be wondering if it was all worth it, in time and money.

Quoted from RichMariner

Almost every club is over-spending (or at least benefitting from directors injecting extra cash into the club).

In my eyes, a club that's run sustainably and sensibly is one that spends within its means and isn't reliant on the board to dig them out of a financial hole i.e. spend the money you get through gate receipts and sponsorship.

If every club did that then I'd expect us to have a top 6 budget in this division.

But we're not because plenty of clubs at our level have extra cash coming in from somewhere - maybe that's historical transfers, when they've been able to sell assets for good money. In which case, good luck to them.

But in most cases it's because there's a benefactor or a board that's willing to chuck cash at the team in the hope that they move up the league ladder and start tapping into the extra cash that comes their way through sponsorship and TV.

The trouble starts when those benefactors begin to demand that cash back. We're now in a position where Fenty has us on a pretty even keel, day-to-day, but any profits we make are being taken back by him to pay off the debt his debt that he created by making poor decisions over the last decade or so.

If we want a budget to compete for promotion next season, the board will need to invest more money than we get through gates and sponsorship - and this could increase our debt unless we actually win promotion.

I'm not sure I want to start gambling again with the future of this club, especially as we remain in the icy grip of Fenty and the current board.

I'd like to see how far Jolley can take us with a sensible budget and a focus on youth. If we can develop and sell the likes of Clifton and Wright on for big profits then that can help fund future promotion pushes, and we'd be less reliant on the board for cash that will just drive up our debt and make us even more unattractive as a club to purchase.

But wasn't the bulk of that debt incurred through paying of Ramsden and HMRC , both of which were nothing to do with how JF was running the club?

Quoted from Gaffer58

Although scunny had their 2 sessions in he championship I would assume they were losing money each time, Mr Swann has bankrolled the club, so I wonder what his nett spend is over that time. Now they are on he cusp of relegation all Mr Swanns money has basically just gone up in smoke to have them back where they were when he took over. Unless all his money are " benign loans"  he may be wondering if it was all worth it, in time and money.

I think he will view it as worth it. Great times in the championship, top end of league 1 - what is not to like? The football pendulum swings to and fro (fro in our case) but he has great memories and he can always call it a day when his dream dies - but at least he had a dream.

Quoted from rancido

But wasn't the bulk of that debt incurred through paying of Ramsden and HMRC , both of which were nothing to do with how JF was running the club?

Taking just the non-League years the club's debt went up by £1.5m from £2.6 to £4.1m. I wonder how much the debt went up between JF paying off Ramsden/HMRC and when we got relegated.