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Another case for VAR

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promotion plaice
March 2, 2019, 2:05pm Report to Moderator

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Harry Kane gets a penalty for Spurs but was clearly off-side !!!


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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grimsby pete
March 2, 2019, 2:06pm Report to Moderator

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Yes he was but never mind it was against Arsenal.


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ska face
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Quoted from promotion plaice

Harry Kane gets a penalty for Spurs but was clearly off-side !!!


Clearly?




Think the word you’re looking for is “marginally”. And at the end of the day, who really gives a fuuck? Gonna have almost no bearing on what happens to either club in the long run.

Said it the other day - if all these purists are so concerned about making sure the big calls are right, they can introduce VAR in the lower leagues and conference where decisions can mean clubs going out of business and people losing their jobs.
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supertown
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Quoted from ska face


Clearly?




Think the word you’re looking for is “marginally”. And at the end of the day, who really gives a fuuck? Gonna have almost no bearing on what happens to either club in the long run.

Said it the other day - if all these purists are so concerned about making sure the big calls are right, they can introduce VAR in the lower leagues and conference where decisions can mean clubs going out of business and people losing their jobs.



That’s not marginal , it’s fully offside
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sonofmadeleymariner
March 2, 2019, 2:31pm Report to Moderator
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Kane was well offside, but Abanyang wasn't fouled for their peno either so reffing mistakes at both ends


Alan Shearer tackled by a blue peter presenter

Its taken 9 months for the board to see sense but finally Slade is out!!!!!!
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Mariner93er
March 2, 2019, 2:38pm Report to Moderator
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In real time when there are multiple players making a run, that's it's easy to say a clencredibly hard to call. Its easy to say it's clear from a still picture.
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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from supertown



That’s not marginal , it’s fully offside


Thought if any part of the attacker's body was in line with any part of the defender's body when the ball is kicked, he is onside?


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grimsby pete
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Thought if any part of the attacker's body was in line with any part of the defender's body when the ball is kicked, he is onside?


I liked it when they changed the rule so there had to be clear daylight between the players to be offside,

It did not last long maybe a season or two the problem was seeing clear daylight on the night games.


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MeanwoodMariner
March 2, 2019, 5:53pm Report to Moderator

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I thought now the rule was that you are only offside once you've played the ball. Kane was fouled before the ball reached him.
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The Old Codger
March 2, 2019, 5:58pm Report to Moderator
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You're either offside or not and that's offside.
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ska face
March 2, 2019, 7:13pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from supertown



That’s not marginal , it’s fully offside


Ah good point, never looked at it that way.
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arryarryarry
March 3, 2019, 12:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner
I thought now the rule was that you are only offside once you've played the ball. Kane was fouled before the ball reached him.


It is when the ball is kicked, but linesmen do wait to see if the player goes for the ball.
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arryarryarry
March 3, 2019, 12:24pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ska face


Clearly?




Think the word you’re looking for is “marginally”. And at the end of the day, who really gives a fuuck? Gonna have almost no bearing on what happens to either club in the long run.

Said it the other day - if all these purists are so concerned about making sure the big calls are right, they can introduce VAR in the lower leagues and conference where decisions can mean clubs going out of business and people losing their jobs.


You should have gone to Specsavers.
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CodHead
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Quoted from promotion plaice

Harry Kane gets a penalty for Spurs but was clearly off-side !!!


Non-Football


Oh he's a Jolley good fellow
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Biccys
March 6, 2019, 2:56pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from arryarryarry


It is when the ball is kicked, but linesmen do wait to see if the player goes for the ball.


Sort of. If a player is in an offside position and interfering with play. At the point he was fouled, he wasn't interfering with play so it's a correct decision.

Discuss.


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moosey_club
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watching the Spurs game last night the commentator mentioned quite early on something along the lines of  "its the Champions League version of VAR this evening" ..... how they would refer or not refer an incident presumably different to our FA Cup version, or Europa Cup version ...

Confused ? you soon will be


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promotion plaice
March 6, 2019, 10:08pm Report to Moderator

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VAR plays a part in Man Utd being awarded a late penalty and Utd score from it to knock big spending PSG out of the Champions League.


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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Abdul19
March 6, 2019, 10:31pm Report to Moderator

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117th minute VAR pen in the other tie tonight too. Both decisions spot on imo, to be fair.


Fentys out
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arryarryarry
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Quoted from Biccys


Sort of. If a player is in an offside position and interfering with play. At the point he was fouled, he wasn't interfering with play so it's a correct decision.

Discuss.


Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used

or
gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
been deliberately saved by any opponent
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.
A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).

In situations where:

a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and impedes the opponent's progress (e.g blocks the opponent) the offence should be penalised under Law 12
a player in an offisde position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence
an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge
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moosey_club
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Quoted from arryarryarry


Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used

or
gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
been deliberately saved by any opponent
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.
A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).

In situations where:

a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and impedes the opponent's progress (e.g blocks the opponent) the offence should be penalised under Law 12
a player in an offisde position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence
an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge


I bet you are fun at parties  


Very well explained.


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lew chaterleys lover
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I have just seen the Man Utd. penalty last night.

What a farce. A defender has a shot smacked at him from close range, jumps and turns his back trying to block it .The ball hits his elbow accidentally. Most United players are getting ready to take the corner yet VAR gives a penalty.

The ref looks at it in slow motion replays which if you watch it often enough from enough angles the ball does indeed strike his elbow. So what? In real time with a 50 miles an hour shot hurtling towards you it just happened to catch his arm on the way through.

The same outcome as if the defender had caught a long drooping shot with both hands, done a bit of basketball with it and popped it over the crossbar. Surely in the spirit of the game, there has to be intent?

VAR will ruin the game.
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Northbank Mariner
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I have just seen the Man Utd. penalty last night.

What a farce. A defender has a shot smacked at him from close range, jumps and turns his back trying to block it .The ball hits his elbow accidentally. Most United players are getting ready to take the corner yet VAR gives a penalty.

The ref looks at it in slow motion replays which if you watch it often enough from enough angles the ball does indeed strike his elbow. So what? In real time with a 50 miles an hour shot hurtling towards you it just happened to catch his arm on the way through.

The same outcome as if the defender had caught a long drooping shot with both hands, done a bit of basketball with it and popped it over the crossbar. Surely in the spirit of the game, there has to be intent?

VAR will ruin the game.


In the eyes of the law, if you use your arms to make yourself bigger and the ball strikes the arm it is an offence therefore a penalty/free kick is awarded...
And, if you listen to ex defenders they are questioning why he turned his back on the ball rather than taking one in the face or any other forward facing part of his body..
I'm not defending VAR at all, personally not a lover of it as I prefer the fast pace of our football in England and think human error adds more to all the talking points and allows us to give the ref pelters and gets the crowd up..
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner


In the eyes of the law, if you use your arms to make yourself bigger and the ball strikes the arm it is an offence therefore a penalty/free kick is awarded...
And, if you listen to ex defenders they are questioning why he turned his back on the ball rather than taking one in the face or any other forward facing part of his body..
I'm not defending VAR at all, personally not a lover of it as I prefer the fast pace of our football in England and think human error adds more to all the talking points and allows us to give the ref pelters and gets the crowd up..


If you take that to its logical conclusion we will have defenders with their arms taped to their sides and running around like wombles

Any movement of running, jumping makes the body "bigger." Not all defenders are like Steve Bruce though are they, with several broken noses all on the same face? A slightly built defender is going to get bad concussion soon in his desperation to avoid turning his body away from a thunderbolt and an accidental handball. Of course, as soon as that happens the rules will be changed again.

It should be like the old days when it was intent that was the main factor.

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Northbank Mariner
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If you take that to its logical conclusion we will have defenders with their arms taped to their sides and running around like wombles

Any movement of running, jumping makes the body "bigger." Not all defenders are like Steve Bruce though are they, with several broken noses all on the same face? A slightly built defender is going to get bad concussion soon in his desperation to avoid turning his body away from a thunderbolt and an accidental handball. Of course, as soon as that happens the rules will be changed again.

It should be like the old days when it was intent that was the main factor.


I can't argue that point, to me when the rule was "a deliberate movement of the arm towards the ball" it made more rational sense...
Think VAR will make a mockery of our game, funnily enough the Andrew Fox incident is still talked about, still questioning at what point does the ref on the pitch run the rule over the game or a panel sat in a warm room with several screens that show every iffy decision in super slow mode .
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jamesgtfc
March 7, 2019, 7:16pm Report to Moderator
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Rio Ferdinand summed it up perfectly last night when he said that nobody jumps with their arms by their side or behind their back. Kimpembe gave the referee a decision to make by turning his body but had the decision been at the other end of the pitch and sent United home, the whole country would be in meltdown.

Poor decision if you ask me, his arm was barely out
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ska face
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Makes you wonder how football ever survived 200 years without having every decision dissected and scrutinised to death, looking for a millimetre-offsides and extending silhouettes.

Think the worst thing is just how many saps have been taken in by it all. Still, if Jake Humphries it Dan Watson say something enough times...
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Jarmo.Is.God
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VAR is good, and will benefit the sport once its fully working and understood.

If you're a millimetre offside, then you're offside, its simple.

The linesman/woman will not put the flag up if not fully convinced and then review it by VAR, that's why they have been putting it up so late during these games.



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1mickylyons
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To me in a handball decision like this my question is would the shot have hit the target ? If it would and the ball was prevented from getting there by the defenders arm I want to see a penalty given . In the last 10 years the games has changed where any kind of contact seems frowned upon and the hysterical reaction you get nowadays to a 50/50 tackle sums it up. We will see more changes bit by bit and you sometimes have to question is this change neccessary and is it a good thing?
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ska face
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Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God
VAR is good, and will benefit the sport once its fully working and understood.


Yeah, people keep rattling this line off but I’m yet to see any evidence of it happening and, if anything, it’s just getting worse. It’s becoming absolutely farcical at times and it all comes back to the fact that the logic behind it is fundamentally flawed - most decisions are subjective and just because some drip in a studio is watching it from another angle doesn’t mean his opinion is any more correct than the ref’s.

All this “it’ll cut out diving” shite they tried to peddle has been proven to be wrong because you’ve now got players chancing it knowing they’ll have the benefit of a pen maybe being picked up on a replay. If anything it’s making the problem worse as you’ve now got different degrees of diving and brushing someone’s foot becomes an offence because people will say “ooooooh well there’s connntaaaaaacctt” in that weasel-tone the pundits all have, rather than using commmon sense and asking if it was enough force to make a 13st, 6’4” bloke fall over.

Quoted Text
If you're a millimetre offside, then you're offside, its simple.


It’s not simple though, that’s the problem. Look at the goal Derby had ruled out in the FA Cup at Southampton. Player receives the ball with his back to goal on the edge of the box, flicks it through to a teammate who scores. The match is held up for about 5 minutes for VAR which finds the initial player’s arm was offside by about a gnat’s member, despite him receiving it back-to-goal with his left foot which was about 2ft behind his arm. That’s technically offside, but what advantage is he gaining there? It also ruined what would’ve been a decent cup tie from that point.

VAR is sold as being 100% right, all the time. It might be intrusive, and annoying, and elitist, and ruin the experience, but at least the decisions are right. But we’ve seen time & time again that the decisions are wrong and people still keep swallowing it. Why bother?
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golfer
March 8, 2019, 9:01am Report to Moderator
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Why do we have to have changes all the time. Passing back direct from the kick off etc..really pixie me off. Don't repair it unless its broken.
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buckstown
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Quoted from golfer
Why do we have to have changes all the time. Passing back direct from the kick off etc..really pixie me off. Don't repair it unless its broken.


I guess it means the game evolves and in theory makes it better. Like stopping back passes to the keeper and three points for a win.
Understand that next year they are removing the word deliberate from the offside rule so from July 1 if it hits your arm its a penalty. I'm hoping that before I snuff it they'll do something about players rugby tackling each other at set pieces, or at least enforcing the rules
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Civvy at last
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Quoted from jamesgtfc
Rio Ferdinand summed it up perfectly last night when he said that nobody jumps with their arms by their side or behind their back. Kimpembe gave the referee a decision to make by turning his body but had the decision been at the other end of the pitch and sent United home, the whole country would be in meltdown.

Poor decision if you ask me, his arm was barely out


I can assure you it fking wouldn't. !!!!


You just have to accept that in life:

Some days you are the pigeon.

Some days you are the statue.


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moosey_club
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VAR could be a god send eventually if it is applied sensibly....take the goal line technology...very simple system...very quick decision...as its an absolute decision , it either did or didn't cross the line.

If VAR was used only for absolute decisions ie....was the player who scored or assisted in an offside position...that is a yes or no....was there a clear and deliberate foul on a player that was missed by the officials ...yes or no ... did a player clearly simulate a foul ...yes or no.

The forwards backwards, stop start freeze framing of 7 different camera angles to try and see if there was or wasn't anything becomes subjective, its ball achingly slow and can still be inconclusive.

In my mind the ref should have the call on whether or not he refers something to VAR ...unless there is something completely off the ball that the match officials could not be expected to see while focusing on the ball in play.

For those of us that grew up in a pre Sky era i don't think its a coincidence that since the proliferation of TV cameras the off the ball doing of an opposition player now seems to have largely disappeared. Hopefully VAR will eventually eradicate the worst cases of simulation.


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moosey_club
March 8, 2019, 10:21am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Civvy at last


I can assure you it fking wouldn't. !!!!


Large parts of Japan and South Korea maybe


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grimsby pete
March 8, 2019, 10:52am Report to Moderator

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It was not VAR that awarded Man Utd a pen it was the ref who looked at it,

Refs need to be better advised what is or isn't a deliberate handball,

If we had more ex pro players taking up being a ref we might have a better understanding on what is a deliberate  action or just a clumsy challenge or slightly late tackle ect.

I agree most of the time they get it right BUT  some of their mistakes costs some teams a lot of money by their exit in a cup game or points that might have got them in a play off.


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lew chaterleys lover
March 8, 2019, 11:11am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from buckstown


I guess it means the game evolves and in theory makes it better. Like stopping back passes to the keeper and three points for a win.
Understand that next year they are removing the word deliberate from the offside rule so from July 1 if it hits your arm its a penalty. I'm hoping that before I snuff it they'll do something about players rugby tackling each other at set pieces, or at least enforcing the rules


Well if thats right about it only has to hit the arm I would imagine that most shots will be at arms rather than the goal...
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Maringer
March 8, 2019, 11:20am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Civvy at last


I can assure you it fking wouldn't. !!!!


I think he mixed up the words 'meltdown' and 'hysterics'.  
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Les Brechin
March 8, 2019, 1:46pm Report to Moderator

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Don't like VAR and don't want to see it in the game.

Goalline technology is another thing and should be used as that a definitive, goal or no goal. Most other decisions are down to the referees point of view and I'm sure there will be a lot of incidents where one ref would give a penalty/free kick and another wouldn't.

As for offsides, just let it be as it has been for the past X amount of years. I'm sure decisions for and against will even up over time and in most cases it's not as if CLEAR offsides are not being flagged, it's only down to the very marginal ones.



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Meza
March 8, 2019, 2:05pm Report to Moderator

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I don't care what anyone says.  If you move your hand/arm towards the ball then it's a freekick/penalty.  The incident with Kimbemba was  unfortunate...to which I didn't think it was a penalty as he didn't move his arm towards the ball.




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Maringer
March 8, 2019, 2:36pm Report to Moderator
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The problem with offside is that it is pretty much impossible for the linesmen (or women) to judge them with any accuracy. It's not possible to follow 4 different things at the same time - you need to see the last defender, the attacker, the player kicking the ball and the ball itself. Ultimately, it ends up being a best guess. Some linos are pretty decent at this guesswork whereas others (the one at the weekend, for example, not that it made any difference to the result) are pretty bloody useless.

I don't think VAR should be used at all during the game as football shouldn't be stop start and should flow as much as possible. I do, however, think video evidence should be used retrospectively after matches to punish serious foul play but only where it is absolutely obvious. If a referee sees an appalling foul but just mistakenly gives a booking (or nothing) at the time then retrospective action should be able to be taken. After all, red cards are sometimes overturned, so why shouldn't the opposite be true?

Refereeing errors have always been part and parcel of the game but the best team still usually wins. Just part of the game.
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Ipswin
March 8, 2019, 3:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Civvy at last


I can assure you it fking wouldn't. !!!!


I fking would! I always want the English club to win whichever one it is especially if they are playing the Frogs or the Hun

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golfer
March 9, 2019, 9:23am Report to Moderator
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goal line technology YES----all this other shite  NO--we have managed with the refs. decision all this time--supposed to be a SPORT---let it stay that way
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Croxton
March 9, 2019, 10:04am Report to Moderator
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Boston v Stockport County on Saturday saw ref Amy Fearn in a good position to give an immediate pen for handball. Ben Davies converted again.
Most supporters would be happy if they thought the general fitness and competence of officials was improving. The linos at BP this season have not covered themselves in glory.

(Good to see that Newell's criticism of Fearn failed to deter her from continuing in her role.)
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GYinScuntland
March 9, 2019, 11:03pm Report to Moderator

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Three minutes to decide if some girl private has scored or not, football's dead as far as I'm concerned.
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GrimRob
March 10, 2019, 12:22am Report to Moderator

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You guys have obviously forgotten the Hand of God. I am still burning with injustice 33 years on....


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promotion plaice
March 16, 2019, 7:12pm Report to Moderator

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As good as Man City have played tonight they would have probably lost to Swansea if VAR had been in operation.


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
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moosey_club
March 16, 2019, 7:26pm Report to Moderator
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Its just another example of how pathetically out of touch the FA are with the wider game....i have said this from the off regards the FA Cup, it is not a level playing field whilst VAR is selective, the competition is unfair and any teams involved in a VAR game have a distinct advantage/   disadvantage over those that aren't.
Swansea are this weeks VAR losers.

Clubs should be playing up like fck at the next meeting. All or nothing.


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golfer
March 16, 2019, 9:40pm Report to Moderator
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Macca gets red card but not if you play for MAN  UTD tonight
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Stadium
March 16, 2019, 10:07pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from golfer
Macca gets red card but not if you play for MAN  UTD tonight


???

The derby game wasn't using VAR.
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White_shorts
July 20, 2019, 4:27pm Report to Moderator
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If you think number 10 Harry Kane is gaining an unfair advantage in that photo, then I suggest you go to A and E to have the rod removed from your backside. It is ridiculous to say that someone's arm is offside.

For a goal to be scored, the whole of the ball has to cross the line. Why don't we have a similar rule with offside? The whole of the attacker has to be clear of the last defender.
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mimma
July 20, 2019, 4:40pm Report to Moderator
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Stop talking sense whiteshorts otherwise you will get a lifetime ban from the fishy and made to watch Scumthorpe for life!
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Meza
July 20, 2019, 5:42pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from mimma
Stop talking sense whiteshorts otherwise you will get a lifetime ban from the fishy and made to watch Scumthorpe for life!


Haha you cant do that to the poor soul.  I did think the same as whiteshorts at one point, but then its still unfair as the attacker gains an advantage.  




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mimma
July 20, 2019, 8:16pm Report to Moderator
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At one point they gave the advantage to the attacker, he had to be well offside, but like mast good ideas it seems to have fallen by the way side.
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